Actual Tank Commander tries Battlefield V's The Last Tiger Campaign. Is it realistic? Let's find out. ↓ Social Links ↓ ➤ Twitch: / panzerpaw ➤ Twitter: / panzerpaw ➤ Discord: / discord ---
Since a lot of people are confused about this too: The tank starts with 4 crew members, not the maximum of 5. There's no radio operator/machine gunner in the hull at the start. The loader later dismounts and deserts them, leaving the tank with a crew of 3. With the commander staying outside of the hatch half the time and there only being a gunner left in the turret, the gun either shouldn't be moving or reloading. Can't have both.
Bro... it's a video game not real life 2. It's going to have issues like this because it's supposed to make the game more playable not more realistic because if it was realistic it would not be fun at all.
@@williambohn4082 tbh idk whats worse. One exchanged 2 groups of SAS and insurgent forces trough a Kid and a mother. Basicly trying to rewrite History. Then when pointed out dice called their Fans sexists and such. Meanwhile vanguard just plays in a Fantasy World.
8:34 those are Mosquitoes. British 2 engine attacker aircraft. They made entirely out of wood and built for Anti Ship and Anti Armor. There was one Mosquito equipped with a 6pdr gun used for taking out U-Boats but there were some instances were they were used to take out German armor. The plane was produced all the way up until 1950.
@@SweetSniper5197 the Mosquitoes filled up plenty of roles, from recon to "special deliveries" (by parachuting small containers), bomber formation leaders, bombing, patrolling, submarine hunters, escorts, close air support, you name it. If the army hand a need for it, they would configure the plane for it's role and send it into missions. Mosquito was very versatile and easy to build with wood (since metal and aluminium was scarce for the Brits), plus it's performance was better than most aircraft at it's introduction for it's size. Dogfighting might be the only role this plane could not perform well.
I'd like to point out that holographic sights did exist, just not on that scale. They were used in aircraft for the most part due to the batteries being massive
@@shukes4645 they never exist those seen in games CoD vanguard and this Battlefield only footage of giant Night vision scope in Stg44 they say the color of night vision is red
at least some ingame sounds were correct, heres what it really sounds like when a mosquito dives right at you ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-2qYU1RYGgy8.html
@@DTfishing07 you could have a healthy mix though like don’t frame the mission in 1945 when Germany was on the retreat and had no chance of winning the story would be slightly different but it could work especially well during Operation Barbarossa
@@DTfishing07 Then do the Battle of the Bulge or something that could work too because then they’d actually be on the offensive and have a reason to exit the tank
T34 Calliopes were used in combat during WW2 but they were used more in the rocket artillery role before acting like a normal Sherman and supporting the infantry. The rockets they have are HE so against a Tiger it wouldn't do much and they also wouldn't be in a city like this while still having rockets.
And if for some odd reason they did have rockets in a city, they would never have fielded as many as Battlefield V portrays, probably only 1 or 2 per 6 or so normal Sherman tanks.
@@andrewtibbetts2695 They actually had an entire 3 battalions. But they were never stationed in a city. They were only ever used in flat plains and hills. Nowhere else.
Tbh, I like the character development. I able to sympathize with muller, kerz and the stupid boy. But yeah, the inaccuracies make me laugh when I tried to feel the character, specially the last one when we see a bunch of junkers bombing his own city lol
@@ahmadhadi177 German tanks always needed full crew to function well and they did up until end of the war unless they had losses itch they could not replace
The Tiger moving and firing with the commander looking out of his hatch is actually one of the few things in this mission being possible. The Tiger (like many other tanks then and now) have a crew member for each role: Driver, Radio operator (missing throughout the mission, but actually the most expandable/replacable. Here the Loader and later Gunner stop-gap fill that position when necessary), Loader, Gunner, Commander. Driver drives, Loader and Gunner operate the cannon, Commander coordinates. And the Gunner can even take on the role of the Loader, too, as happens later on after they sent the poor bastard on a scouting mission which he doesn't return from. Hell, a tank can work on just a skeleton crew of only Driver and Gunner to make it move and shoot.
0:25 The gunners sight is actually very close. The only things missing are that the scale on the right should have "8.8 cm curving around (from around the 1800m to around the 2500m marks in length) and MG on the other (around the 800m mark). The maximum values are even correct at 4000m from the 8.8cm and 1200m for the MG.
Honestly I forgave this campaigns flaws solely for the reason that I never was able to play an fps story from the german perspective. It was interesting, working your ass off even knowing that you're going to fail
Yeah it was a damm shame that we didn't get to play as the germans in bf1. The story is about how war isnt good for either side and we are all just humans so yeah
@@1upproductions423he stories good but for me at least it takes me out when a 75mm Sherman pens a tiger from the front then tanks a shot from an 88 and when 100 Calliopes come outta no where and the fact there’s even a tiger on the offensive is literally insane because if they were in Germany it would probably be in a defensive position
@@iwantmynametobeaslongaspos7194 I don't think the story makes sense he's clearly High ranked meaning he's been in the Army and seen a lot of things how did he just realized how awful the German Army is. there is high possibility this guy has seen far worse things back in his time
The Caliope tanks were used in combat, though once they fired all 60 of their rockets, the wooden superstructure would be detached and discarded. It was then just an M4A3(I think A3) Sherman without the top-mounted machine gun.
It was a support vehicle that served as mobile rocket artillery and not a front line tank. The use in this game is incorrect, they would not be used that close in that manner.
I mean, they bouild comparable amount of pather (6k) to Pz IV (8k), however Panzer IV were more versatile and usable, while panters were mostly at astern front and they tried to use them out of cities, to make advantage of their armor and speed with agility.
I've always personally found it weird that very few, if any, M4A3E8s were featured in the mission. The majority, or near entirety, of the Shermans shown were standard M4A3s with the original M4 turret and the 75mm M3 gun which was only a threat to the Tiger 1 within 100m frontally or from about 500m on the sides and rear. By the end of the war M4A3E8s were present in equal if not greater numbers to Shermans armed with the 75mm. I am also personally extraordinarily disappointed at the fact they never added the M26 Pershing. Though if the M26 was available in multiplayer it would be a balancing nightmare, I'm not sure if they actually model the armor or penetration realistically but the M26 was a monster and really only notably frontally vulnerable to the KwK43 "Long 88" (Tiger 2's gun) and above. The KwK36 "Short 88" (Tiger 1's gun) struggled immensely against the frontal armor and by comparison the 90mm M3 could slam straight through the thickest armor anywhere on a Tiger 1 at rather considerable range. So if the M26 Pershing was realistically added to the game it would unironically ruin balance. So while I'm disappointed it didn't make it, it's understandable I guess. Upon rewatching the video closely, I spotted exactly 1 M4A3E8 around the 9:19 mark (and one more at 11:46 more for spectacle). I think it's obligatory to mention that the M1A2 76mm High Velocity Cannon could reliably penetrate the front of a Tiger 1 out to 900m with standard AP and well out past 1km with HVAP. There was almost no chance that anything this tank fired at the Tiger 1 that wouldn't penetrate cleanly and a penetration by an enemy tank means the tank is down, a few suicidal crewmen may stay in the tank in an attempt to take the enemy with them but any sane crew is bailing and running for their lives if said penetrating shell didn't kill them all by detonating the ammunition.
Those weren't E8s, they were just M4A3 76s. If you look at the return rollers (top road wheels) there are three which indicates it uses VVSS and not HVSS.
Ya know, I'm gonna be honest....... when you say something like "That's a friendly tank down there" adding "I think" after a brief pause uh......... probably doesn't give your crew great confidence LOL. EDIT: Also, as an aviation geek, I feel I have to correct you, the aircraft divebombing you was not a JU-88, it was in fact a DeHaviland Mosquito, also known as the Balsa Bomber, due to being made mostly of wood. It was actually a phenomenal aircraft though, the first real fighter bomber.
calliope was strictly ranged area denial/ bombardment, youd NEVER get one within 500 meters of combat firing its rockets, must be the tiger commander from fury commanding it
All these jokers in the comments saying the Calliope was used for psychological warfare... the stuff amateur historians pull out of their ass these days, I swear. Maybe it had theoretical use as a scare tactic, but no military adopts and fields a piece of equipment purely because it 'scares' the enemy. The Jericho siren being the exception to the rule (iirc they were removed from most Ju-87's after a certain point in the war).
@@michaelmikeymike0015 Then those same people will pull up every single example of stuff adopted solely because it scared the enemy, demoralized or etc. You can't win. You are right about the Jericho Trumpets. Most Luftwaffe pilots removed them because they got annoying, and gave it away even more when they were diving. I think Stukas were loud as is when diving.
7:51 at this stage in the war the Germans were running out of people so all soldiers were experts at everything. They were also all hopped up on the magic chocolate.
This would also explain the lack of Panthers, not that Germany would have many to begin with, but in 1945 they wouldn't have had many that were fully operational left. Granted, a Panther not being fully operational never stopped the Germans from trying to use it.
Ah yes, conscripts or soldiers with little training before being sent to the front being experts at everything. Must have missed that 3am-History Channel episode.
Regardless, the important thing for me is the message it's trying to convey. The feeling, the emotion and everything. With us being in the pov of the germans is just a cherry on the top.
One thing that ticked me off about this campaign is portraying the Shermans as "quantity over quality" when in reality, though numerous, the Sherman was one of (if not the best) tanks of the war. I think portraying it as some useless metal box in this campaign is quite disrespectful towards those who actually served in the Sherman.
I agree. Despite them having been designed with mass production in mind, they did perform reasonably well. And when they got outgunned, upgraded models were deployed. It's comparable, in a way, to how some people hail the T-34 for its effectiveness and that tank also had similar "mass produced" design and quality.
I still remember the whole "historically accurate BFV" fiasco where DICE responded by going "nah we're not trying to be historic don't like don't buy" then in the intro for this mission they go "HEY, HISTORIC FACTOID, 5 SHERMANS FOR 1 TIGER AMIRITE"
T34 Calliopes were used by various Armored Divisions but they weren’t used as much as people would think as they could also be used as psychological warfare because the sound of the rockets would often scare enemy soldiers. If you want to look at it in terms of effectiveness it was terrible and only good for the noise the rockets made since rocket artillery was popular at the time.
Seeing you play Company of Hero’s could be a lot of fun, good platform for a little bit of real tactics. Shock Force 2 could be another but the game I hear has a million things you have to learn.
Caliope were used by the americans based on my belief since 1944-1945 and were used mostly on the pacific front against the japanese, but there is some that saw on the western front.
The tiger had 5 crewmen, not. (Because you thought the commander needs to shoot) Gunner, driver, radio operator / machine gunner, loader, and the commander who just commands.
the launchers (calliope) were subsequently removed and not reinstalled on tanks until February 1945 with General Patton's army. In March 1945, when Patton's army was pushing through the Saarland in western Germany, the launchers did manage to see some usage in armored divisions, so they were used, but only 30 were made
Not sure if saying this is enough for someone to call me a “Wehraboo” but the sentence in the loading screen that says “gErMaNy oNlY mAdE 1,350 tIgErS wHıLe aMeRiCa,cOnsTrUcTed 50,000 sHeRmAnS.” gives me some serious headaches. Idk why people acts like Tiger I was Germany’s only tank during the war.In fact,it was less than 3% of the entire German tank,tank destroyer and assault gun arsenal. It was an over-engineered,expensive to build and maintain heavy breakthrough tank used in relatively smaller numbers.It was never meant to be Germany’s most important tank during the war unlike what some kids claim.
The calliope were used extensively late into the war but not that close. They acted as mobile rocket artillery. And artillery guns looked like a mash between a French 155mm howitzer and a German gun. You'll never bring towed artillery into urban areas like that.
also at around 4:00 you asked: 'can someone in the comments tell me if the caliope was actually used' and it wasn't really (it was supposed to be used during the D-day offensive but they didnt want to run the risk of calliope's falling over during transport, it later saw limited action in 1945 in the italian front and during the saarland campaign) , the rocket racks designed for the calliope was eventually used on special ground support craft, where they saw mass adoption.
There were 5 crew members in a Tiger tank. The gunner was controlling the turret while your tank commander was standing out of the commander's cupola. The radio operator was firing the bow mg and sits next to the driver.
This varies depending on which historian you ask, but generally the opinion is that Calliopes never demonstrated their full potential. They never saw direct-fire combat, and were treated more as artillery pieces. Crews were hesitant to take them into combat because the launchers made escaping the turret very difficult...
So the Tiger has 5 crew in total and 3 in the turret, at 4:58 you asked who was controlling the gun and that would be the gunner, the guy that pops out of the tank is the commander and all he does is spot tanks and give orders, the gunner can also control the turret movement and machine gun in the turret. Also At 5:30 you asked who was controlling the bow gun and that would be the machine gunner who was on the right of the driver. Go check War Thunder tiger, preview it, then go to x-ray mode to see the layout of the tiger (No need to unlock tanks to preview them).
I'm aware of how many crew the Tiger is supposed to have. I even talked about it but had to cut it due to time. If you watch the opening cinematic, you'll understand that the tank starts off undercrewed and they just got a replacement loader. The same loader that deserts the tank after being sent out to scout for enemies. Hence, the tank goes from a crew of 4, down to a crew of 3. They didn't have a bow gunner to begin with. So, with the commander operating open hatch, there's either nobody loading or nobody operating the gunner station. Can't have both. That's where the whole issue is.
@@PanzerPaw Hartman was the Loader and Substitute Radio Operator, Schröder was the new recruit and Gunner, Kertz was the Driver, Peter was the Commander. Hartman deserted not Schröder.
@@PanzerPaw They still have a Commander, Gunner, and Driver. I dont know where you're getting confused. The loader deserts but they still have the gunner. And when the gunner isnt firing he can still easily load the 88 from the ready racks on the side of the tank.
@@PanzerPaw I think the Scroder would simply alternate between firing and loading....as it could be done, just not at the rate in game, in reality it'd probably take 15-30 seconds, maybe a minute, for a gunner to fire, move, load next shell, move back to gunner post, and fire. I think it'd be neat if you suffer some kind of loading time penalty after Hartmann deserts, but it's still plausible for the tiger to operate with 3 people, with the crews being overworked.
It's sort of hard to take into consideration *difficulty of enemies* when you're playing one of the easiest difficulties... (on Veteran your tank can't even take 3 hits. This was the same issue in BF1. You spent WAY more time pulling current-generation tactics of long-range fire).... Also, Veteran tended to keep you under constant fire, no time to repair.
Tank crews are usually trained to operate with at least one crew member knocked out. Depending on the layout of the tank, different crew members would replace the roles of the one knocked out. So, you could have the commander replacing the gunner or the loader. But at that point, it's less about staying in the fight and more trying to get away from it and surviving instead.
As a german tank cdr I can confirm: We're definitely better marksman than any sniper. Got no plot armour though. Just good ol' regenerating health like everyone else...
The artillery pieces seen in the beginning were German 21cm Mörser 18s. Don't know why Americans would be using them, especially at close range. Usually those guns were used for remarkably long distance shelling. If anything Americans would be using 155mm "Long Toms".
The Battle of Cologne wasn't on such a massive scale. And the tanks that were deployed by the Germans were just three Panthers. This is also the first time in which an American Pershing got its first tank kill on one of those Panthers. The Cathedral in Cologne was still intact (its actually one of the marvels of WWII in that it took 26 direct hits from bombing runs and still remained standing and whole, a testament to the architects of the Medieval period), it wasn't a morass of ruins. The Panthers WERE informed to do as much as they could to buy time for the engineers to set up explosives on the bridges. But it was a one way ticket, and they understood that. There was no getting back across with their armor. There were, also, still some civilians in the city, unable (or unwilling) to leave. Its interesting how BFV had almost 10 years of WWII history to work with, and a plethora of true stories to bring to light. And instead fabricated 4 and made a mockery of the true events that they were "inspired" by.
Just like to point out the planes dive-bombing are mosquitoes not ju88 you can tell if you look at a picture because a ju88 has a much thinner fuselage than the mosquito
the gun isnt really being controlled by magic, its being controlled by the gunner, the commander is sticking his head out but the gunner and the loader are still inside so the tiger has 2 guys in the hull (machinegunner, driver) and 3 in the turret (gunner, loader, commander) also you got in the machinegunner hatch first and then the driver hatch
Except that we didn't start with the assistant driver. So we only had a crew of 4. The new crew member that joined was a loader. Meaning that the gun was either being aimed or being loaded by magic once that guy deserted (leaving us with a crew of 3)
@@PanzerPaw I'm assuming you mean radio operator? Anyways the vehicle can still be operated by a crew of three (driver, gunner, commander), it's just the number of responsibilities vastly increases for each crew member (except maybe the driver). The gunner can still manually load the gun. There is no "only such and such person can do this, if we don't have them we can't do anything" for a crewed vehicle, just varying degrees of how much you can do at once. The commander can aim the gun while it is being loaded.
@@PanzerPaw Nah, the gunner was clearly just really good at multitasking, ram a shell down the barrel, then smack the back of it with a hammer and center punch, and most importantly DON'T TELL OSHA!
15:21 The kid didn't shoot you, because the sound played is the sound of a m3 submachine gun better known as the grease gun. So actually the americans shot the kid before he had the chance to shoot you.
The recoil on that Tiger is too much, although the gun shoots very heavy rounds and the recoil is very strong, on such a giant heavy tank it would affect it almost like a recoil less rifle would do. Then who uses the cannon and machinegun: The gunner has control of the coaxial machinegun and the cannon, they aim together just that you have a trigger for the machinegun and another for the cannon. In this game tanks work like you just are the commander and it's too arcade. Basically battlefield is not made for using tanks, it's just so unrealistic that it becomes hard to use. Also, Tiger tank had much higher speeds, just that the acceleration gets reduced as you switch to higher gears. And it makes no sense for the commander to even think about sticking his head out of the tank or even opening the hatch, that should be used only for entering and exiting the vehicle or using your binoculars when there are no enemies around or letting in some fresh air, but again only when there's no danger
@@grootsyt Here’s a metric I can give you 8.8 cm KwK 36 gun of the Tiger has rounds that go 780 meters per second, or 2,600 feet per second, when fired The Sherman Firefly that you play in CoD WW2 has the QF 17pdr cannon, and it fires rounds that go 1,200 meters per second, or 3,950 feet per second If one thing makes sense in this mission it’s that the Tiger is well capable of destroying all of the enemy Sherman tanks in the game and in real life CoD WW2 doesn’t when a tank shell that travels at more than 3 times the speed of sound can’t penetrate paper Pz. IV armor (around 80mms of armor on the hull front)
the artillery at 3:40 are not American, those look like German artillery, could be decoys tho cause allies didn't really use German equipment unless it was really necessary due to lack of ammo and parts, I mean look at the 2 panthers the British and the Canadians used, one was abandoned cause it couldn't cross a bridge built for shermans and the other broke a fuel pump and couldn't be replaced the Soviets also used captured equipment but that's due to them also taking the time to tow captured guns and vehicles back to "vehicle lots" to be repaired or just to get them out of the way (I'm not entirely sure), Germany did the same thing and we've seen many examples of "Beutapanzer's" being used by many german units, although it was not encouraged due to the high risk of friendly fire
I think the thing that doesn't make sense about The Last Tiger is Muller's character being inconsistent, he alternates being unable to make decisions and letting his subordinates push him around such as when Schroeder tells him to let Hartmann go out and scout when he could do it himself (and being the tank commander, it is his job to do it, or maybe Muller can ask Schroeder or Kertz to go with him), but then in the next scenes Muller goes out and does tasks himself on multiple occassions. It might be some kind of representation of Muller's personality and decision making skill developing from when he was first a Tank Commander from 1943, perhaps he was a bit timid, but grew to be more responsible, but it's all compressed into a single day in 1945. If say, the Tiger story spans from 1943 - which is plausible since in BF1, war stories spanned a much longer time period and more locations with multiple missions per story instead of 1 long segmented mission like in BFV, perhaps it was cut or changed early in development - then this would make a bit more sense storytelling and personality wise if it happened earlier in the war instead of all in a single day.
tigers have 5 crew 2 fornt 3 turret if i remember correctly and the guy popping out is the commander. The gunner is the one rotating the turret if the commander is outside. And as someone else already pointed out the tiger in the mission doesnt have a assistant driver.
Caliopies were only really a concept, with a few being used more in Normandy France 1944. I doubt that there would have been any in Berlin, and they certainly wouldn't be very accurate.
this stage of the war all you would see are panzer ivs and stugs with a handful of panthers and tigers strewn about. stug and panzer iv were the most common tanks at this stage of the war in the german arsenal. just not in game depictions lol
There's a crew of 5, gunner, loader (operates the turret mg), driver, commander, radio operator (controls hull gun) mostly early war tanks had the commander operate the main gun such as the pz2 or the t-60
