Big tram changes may be coming to Melbourne in 2024! 

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A line dissecting North Melbourne - Collingwood would be a game changer for so many people

This is a perfect opportunity to look at extensions to our tram network. The last one was in 2005

I would love to expansion of the tram network out to the western suburbs....

Interesting point about the tram lines down Elizabeth Street. I always wondered why they never connected to the lines on Flinders - seems like it would have been a no brainer when the network was built, even if to increase the ability to move trams around the network or when maintenance machines were tram based. However, network wise I think there will be minimal if any infrastructure spend.

I think it’s good for the Elizabeth St trams to continue on rather than terminate at Flinders St. I hope they choose slightly more diverging routes though, given that the 57 and 59 share so much of the same route from Flemington Bridge. I think that sending them both out to the sporting grounds will mainly benefit those in the east getting to the city, rather than those who currently use those routes. I think it’d be much better to send one route down towards Spencer St instead, either via La Trobe or Flinders St. That will improve connections with trams along William and Spencer St. The best routes will really depend on what happens with tram frequency after the upgrades for the G-Class trams, and what happens with other routes

There have been talks about Spencer St, North of Latrobe St becoming a busy main street for West Melbourne, so if the route 5 is rerouted via Spencer, then it is more than likely it would be extended up to Arden Station. Also there's still no discussion about an east west connecting line, north of Victoria St which is really sad given how fast the north is densifying.

I wish they would build decent tram shelters. The ones they have provide very little protection from anything.

Thanks! I’d also be really pleased if they could put a simple arrow display at the Flinders Street 19 terminus to indicate which side the tram is leaving next. It’s a scrum every day and with the historic green shed there it’s a really tight squeeze for people to sidle past the trams.

If the 5 is moved to Spencer St which is a good idea, the tracks need to be extended up into West Melbourne and onwards to Arden to capture the large number of appartments in the area now.

A few other public documents exist with tram changes. You might want to check the reference VITM network in the latest Infrastructure Victoria bus discussion papers. It fills in a few missing link tracks, including on Victoria St Carlton, Maribyrnong Rd Essendon, Miller St Preston, and Park St Sth Melb. There's also the Fishermans Bend plans for Collins St trams continuing across the Yarra.

I hope that link on park street gets built to allow direct access to Southern Cross Station from st kilda road. It will avoid a time consuming transfer in the city.

Re the scramble crossing at Elizabeth St Flinders St, City of Melb is considering closing Flinders St to vehicle traffic long term. If that occurs it will solve the problem of trams turning through the intersection. Given EB Flinders has been closed to vehicles since 2019 it would be easy to retain this closure as everyone has adjusted to it.

They have to upgrade Flinders St station on Elizabeth Street. It's the most dangerous stop in the cbd. In my opinion just remove the road acces and make it pedestrian only.

A few comments, if I may: - Straight lines rock. - 12 via LaTrobe would be a very sensible thing to do providing direct access from VicGardens to Melbourne Central. It would release Collins from too many trams and substitute 30 almost in its entirety. - I would absolutely keep 75 as is (Bridge Rd to Flinders is essential because it's a straight line), probably cutting it down at Central Pier because it is already long enough and there are many others going past that point. It is also massively convenient for passengers going to Camberwell that they can board 70 or 75 at Flinders and end up where they're going either way. (Massively helpful during disruptions, too). - For the same reason, I think 5 and 64 should maintain their togetherness (not sure whether to favour William or Spencer in that scheme).

Good video. You said your a transport planner, we need you in Ballarat to fix our atrocious Bus system. Our Good Mayor can't even get a meeting with PTV Transport

I remember when they wanted to extend the Bundoora Line all the way to Port Melbourne. With Tram Franchise ready for Renewal soon. This I guess will greatly effect where and how they link the Tram Network with the new Suburban loop. Definitely 57 route will see a possible extension into the Wellington St Siding. 58 will stay the same. Except G class will take over as all of the trams will come from the New Maidstone Depot. Then we have one of the only two suburban line's. The Moone Pond's too Footscray. This could be expected to Central Pier. Or With it's own Terminus on the North Side of Waterfront City. Or even onto the disused track on Harbour Espenalade. Giving the densely populated Docklands yet another Tram Service.

Great vid Philip, appreciate your regular vids updating us on changes to the network. I just thought I'd add that I think the new accessible parkville tram stop opened a couple of weeks ago. At least I saw an announcement saying so (hopefully I'm not mistaken) I plan to head there this weekend to check it out anyhow.

You should do one for metro services changes when the metro rail tunnel opens

Geelong to Melbourne - linking trams direct to Flinders St / Docklands / Southbank / MCG / Tennis centre / Theatres / Victoria Market - all the biggest tourist attractions with one Myki card - VLine & trams - keeping it simple! 😊

If your new 64 route continued on past Flagstaff, you could add/link a left track turn from Peel St into Victoria St (so onto the existing route 57) and then extend the tracks on Queensberry St past Abbotsford St a couple of blocks to Arden station. That would be a relatively quick and inexpensive way to link the tram network to Arden.

A Elizabeth St turn would be a safety nightmare in either direction plus a 3rd track would be needed otherwise a backlog (for trams turning into Elizabeth blocking flinders street ones) seems inevitable!

Love to hear your thoughts on changes to tram tracks..points, extensions, turn backs. That would be ideal. The gov has been hopeless on small level and service changes on buses and trams.

Thanks for this video, I didn't expect it to be so interesting to be honest.

Route 5 to Spencer St would also need the Park Street track extension (Kings Way to Heather St). Much talked about but not done. (Or is that's what's meant by turning right from Park St into Kings Way?).

I would love tram 70 to be reinstated to its original root along the yarra

Great video, thanks for the map. I'm curious about the plans to bring trams to Fishermans Bend. The proposed bridge seems to be in doubt, but it's greatly needed.

love your work.

Ok but will I still be able to tell people that Swanston St is the busiest tram corridor in the world after all this? Or at least do we retain the title somewhere else in the city?

I was sitting at a tram stop on Chapel St a couple of weeks ago in Prahran and overhead 2 people talking about one side was having parking removed to create "accessible" tram stops. That's a big change for Chapel St if true.

I'm curious what the metro tunnel will mean for the other rail lines that it won't directly serve. For example the Burnley group, and what the platforms at Richmond station will look like after the tunnels open.

The tram terminus in Elizaberh St might have made sense 100 years ago, but should have been eliminated long ago.

One has the feeling that our transport "planners" don't have a clue as to where our tram users actually want to travel or where the actual need is. Bridge Rd trams cannot carry the passengers at times so the proposed extension to Elizabeth Street trams stops at Hoddle St. Useless. Some years ago they doubled the wait time at Young and Jackson's to go to Bridge Rd when they rerouted the 48 tram. The plan to send the 75 up Spring St would then destroy the shortest and quickest way to the city from Richmond. Crazy stuff!

I suspect a more likely alternative could be route 75 via Collins Street and route 12 via La Trobe Street. The intersection of Collins and Spencer is the most problematic one remaining and this would simplify it further leaving only one route turning, while also increasing capacity along Collins which is sorely needed.

Another great video Phil, well done. The tram network is critical infrastructure and has been neglected for a long time. There is a lot of room for improvement. I look forward to these changes. It is currently a nightmare trying to provide any feedback. The services currently provided at Jolimont respond poorly to big events. We have an under-utilised super stop, with a service dominated by small trams. The system suffers from poor administration, dirty trams, bad drivers and rough tracks that need a lot of of TLC.

Great summary of all the information provided in the public media. Excellent video!

The problem is that the holes in the ground are sucking up all the money to do any of these things.

When do we get to the point that we just fully pedestrianise Flinders between Swanston and Elizabeth?

Hi Philip, I noticed in a photo taken in the Elsternwick in the ‘50s that there was a tram line rounding the corner of Broadway and Glenhuntly rd. What happened to it? BTW, on the corner was a large dance hall / cabaret.

I’m concerned that Labor kill keep shooting itself in the foot and the LNP preference is for cost cutting reductions. Both parties won’t act logically as you propose. I hope everything you suggested goes ahead.

This seems interesting. By the way, the link in the description for the tram map does not work.

finally those latrobe tram stops were SKINNY

It would be good to see St Kilda Rd tram routes like 5 & 64 transfer to Spencer Street, this way they can extend to Docklands Drive together with route 86 while route 70 gets rerouted to run along Elizabeth Street and combine with route 57 to make the two become one route (similar to what happened with route 58) and route 75 to extend all the way to Footscray?

Very informative. I'm a mass rapid transit fan. I think with Melbourne's population growth, and vehicular traffic growth, trams are rather slow and are limited in the amount of people they can move.

Great video Philip, I really hope these changes will actually end up implemented when the Metro Tunnel opens. Quick question though - how will routes 5 and 64 get from St Kilda Rd to Clarendon St? Do these plans also include new tracks in the middle of Park St where there currently are none?

Hi Philip, do you have any information on the Trams that were on Tram road Doncaster? I think they were the first Electric Trams in Australia.

Any info about getting rid of car traffic in the CBD this will help immensely

There is no room in kings way for a new tram line (unless you mean the part past Flinders street travelling south).That road is already the main cross city road and congested most of the time.

I love Melbourne ❤❤

C’mon can’t adverts just be 15secs

The curve at Flinders & Elizabeth will be very tight. How well will the D2's which are fixed bogie trams go negotiating that? They handle the current 19 route relatively well given it almost straight for its entire length

I think you mentioned the linking of the tram routes near the Vic market ,,, they apparently only 50 meters apart ,,we live on the 1and 6 route in Brunswick .Be interested in understanding how this would affect the and benefit the system,, apart from us having better access to the other routes.

i think that the idea of having the the route 5 terminating at the existing spencer st terminus is a good idea as it sets up the posibility for it to be extended to arden station. Also is there any way to access the map since the link is not working. Edit: looking at the map, if the 64 was to terminate at flagstaff, would it make more scence to have it labeled as terminating at queen vic market since the terminating tracks are a few blocks away from flagstaff station.

I must point this the Route 58 happened in 2017

I live on route 75 and noticed today small signs on the accesible stops saying "No low floor trams operating". I know this has already been reported elsewhere, but I do find it odd that we still only have B class on this route, given its length. I rode it home from the city all the way to the end recently and it was pretty full all the way to Deakin, then when those people got off a bunch of new passengers got on to head home from Uni so the demand is there. It would be great to see E classes running on the 75 one day.

What about the former tram line along Domain Road and Park Street in South Yarra?

Using the model PTV seem to want including additional routes on LaTrobe, Spencer and William Streets, these are my ideas: - Route 3 to terminate at Spencer & LaTrobe via Park and Clarendon Streets. This will give passengers on Balaclava and St. Kilda Roads choice to enter the city via Spencer Street or Swanston Street on 16/67. - Route 64 to terminate at Flagstaff station via William Street. After 7:30pm only Route 58 to service William Street, same as today. This will also give Dandenong Road passengers choice of either arriving in the City on William Street or Swanston Street on 5. - Route 12 to travel through the city on LaTrobe and Spencer Streets rather than Collins Street to increase services along LaTrobe Street. - Route 75 to travel the same route as 48 via Spring and Collins Street to terminate at Victoria Harbour to keep the current frequency of trams along Collins Street. Not sure if the terminating facilities at Vic Harbour could support three routes though. - Routes 19, 57 and 59 to extend along Flinders Street as described in this video.

what do you mean by new tracks enabling trams to turn right from Park St onto Kings Way? Isn't that what the 58 currently does right now?

I think you forgot at add flagstaff station on the map

Can you answer the question that has bugged me for years - Why does the Toorak Road Tram stop at Glenferrie road and not continue further down Toorak Road ?

3:49 doesn't the 58 already turn right from park into Kingsway?

The most useful part of the changes will be connecting St Kilda Road directly with Southern Cross station

Do the new tracks in South Yarra mean trams will ho back to running along Patk St/Domain Rd as they used to? And if so, does that mean they'll remove the tracks at the western end of Toorak Rd?

Get ready for a LOT of argument about how the trams will be prioritized around Flinders and Elizabeth... and how confusing it will be for everyone when the priorities change by time of day... let alone the competing demands between the trams (and their variable priorities), the Barnes Walk (scramble), general pedestrians, shop delivery vehicles, taxis, cyclists and buses (they'll want 'equal time' in terms of upgrades and certainly priority). Who will decide if 'more time' gets to pedestrians in a Barnes Walk when there are 6 trams routes, all running late... and a couple of buses which are trying to get through because of roadworks and construction on their routes... let alone when events are on at Melbourne Park, the MCG, the theatres (St Kilda Rd), the Exhibition Centre... Wot a can of worms....

What is going to happen with Melbourne bus network with all the retendering of all bus routes how they will devide the suberbs into north south east and west ? Love your work.

How confident are you that Route 19 will continue to Jolimont Station? (That means i could take one tram to the MCG!) Would be cool if true.

Whatever happens with the Elizabeth Street terminus it really needs to be upgraded. If routes don't extend further then a 3 platform setup so each route has it's own platform would be a big improvement given the rest of Elizabeth St is all superstops.

Melbourne transport system is quite backward compared to Singapore.

Lets face it. The most important thing for the tram network is to better align traffic lights and trams. Especially in the cbd.

Im thinking a possible tram change could be to swap routes 11 and 109, which would allow e classes to go on the port melbourne light rail Also this could allow southbank e class to co-operate route 11 if there was a need to.

They need to reinstate the tram stop on cnr of Swanston Str. & Lonsdale Str. Removing that stop was a hugh mistake Having to walk from Queen Vic Central to Bourke Street with shopping is no fun at all especially for the Elderly. Who's scensless idea was that Big Mistake.

There is talk of the 16 and the 64 joining so if that happen the report would be correct in the route 3 permanently going via St Kilda.

The map link in the description doesn't work

Seems a bit unfair that both Dandenong rd trams have to go via CBD west instead of Swanston st. Removing the Elizabeth st terminus would be fantastic though.

I'm hoping that PTV and the state government reconsider the proposed ANZAC station name underneath Domain junction. Considering that over 2,000 people voted for Domain, and only a few hundred voted for ANZAC, it would be nice if the government actually respected the public's wishes, instead of foisting a name change on us that nobody asked for. Eg, Spencer st to Southern Cross.

The tram map link in the description takes you to a page that says error 404

would route 58 and 59 still go pass royal children hospital

It would've been better if the Elizabeth street tram intersection connected together with Flinder street

How can we get the nutters off the 86 tram?

they should have built platforms at south yarra

Link not working

@philipmallis I think you'll find that the alleged actual plans have been posted somewhere publicly, you've just gotta go .to a particular forum. 289085 might be of use as well. 😉 You're far off the mark with 75, and I'm not sure why you'd bother adding extra turns to the longest route, as well as loss of half of the capacity along Flinders St West, which would struggle with just 70 alone. Despite Camberwell going completely B2, you're cutting it by about a 1/3rd. Other things I'd expect to happen would be potentially 72 getting split (thanks to Burke Rd), and something involving 64/16, especially with depot capacity issues coming up with Malvern and retirement of Z3's in particular.

The network should be simplified with fewer routes😢 running higher frequencies. The “possible” network is a confusing mess.

i saw jalimont station

And...... There are no trams from the new Fishermans Bend development to Anzac Stations, St Kilda, or St Kilda Road..........................

❤

All I want is more suburban trams!

I know this about trams, but why isn't metro tunnel 4 tracks like the city loop, like including Frankston and Craigieburn.

Nord is amazing good stuff Philip!

I wish the tram network would expand to Footscray

ANZAC is an acronym and should be upper case.

Hi, a video discussing what if we have trenched and covered 3 smart lanes road from Power St - Punt Rd - Hoddle St- Brunswick Rd connecting M1, M2 and M3. These are busiest roads in Melbourne. Above roads, beautiful parks, bike lanes, and open spaces can be created. It is only 11 km but it will truely transform the city. Could also extend 4km from Power St to Port Melbourne Beach. Benefits of starting from there would make it efficient for trucks to unload excavated land to reclaim land for the beach, as well as connection to Princess Hwy Similar design discussed in this video: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-A3_wPup0Xd4.html

Once again, an authoritative and upbeat perspective. Arden station is in the middle of a ghost town. So expensive to build, but I can't see where all the passengers are going to come from. Changing transport modes in and out will take a bit of walking. Sure, there's been talk of all kinds of building projects. But that will take years to complete. If you haven't already, worth you going to have a look see sometime.

Your video just highlights the fact that public transport in Melbourne is run by incompetent peanuts. Tram crowding is caused by not running enough trams to meet demand. Yes, there is a limit to track capacity, but for the most part Melbourne is nowhere near that capacity. Up to the 1950s they ran trams as frequently as they were needed. Since the Bolte years they have been quick to cut services, but very slow to increase them. Look at Friday nights for example and how slow they have been to increase frequencies to meet demand, on many lines there has been no increase since the 15 minute service was reduced to 20 minutes in the 1960s. And that is just one example. Many of the crowding problems you mention could be solved simply by restoring services to the frequencies they once operated at years ago. Diverting the 5 and 64 to Spencer or William is going to be of limited benefit. There used to be direct William St peak hour services but they were discontinued due to little patronage. How many people on those lines want to go to those areas of the city? Have they even tried to find out? No, they are just moving lines on a map to make it look like they are doing something, a bit like re-arranging deck chairs on the Titanic. The Metro tunnel is not going to do much to relieve overcrowding on trams in St Kilda Rd because the location of the station won't be convenient for most workers, and the train frequency will be nowhere near the tram frequency. But by moving services to Spencer or William they can try and force people onto the trains by making the tram service worse. Frequency is freedom. Run frequent services and more people will use PT and there will be less cars on the road. But how are they spending our money? On more tram and train services? No. They are spending our money on level crossing removal that will benefit road users - they can already run as many trains as they want through level crossings, it just means booms stay down longer. I'm not saying the crossings should not be removed, but I am saying it is deceptive to market it as improving train services when it is solely for the benefit of road traffic. Let the road budget pay for it, not the public transport budget. But the biggest waste of money is the Metro tunnel itself. It is of little benefit. All it will do is take Sunbury trains out of the Northern loop. Dandy trains already have the Caulfield loop to themselves, the Frankston to Werribee trains already have sole use of the Through viaduct tracks, and the Sandy trains already have exclusive use of platform 13. Capacity on those lines cannot be increased more than what is available now. They have wasted over 11 billion dollars just to take Sunbury trains out of the Northern loop and to serve areas already served by frequent trams with less frequent trains. They could have spent a fraction of that money altering the portals of the existing city loop and achieved greater extra capacity. A city the size of Melbourne still runs trains only every 30 mins at night, trams every 20 mins. Many daytime train frequencies are 20 mins, trams 12 - 15 mins. Start running more frequent services and then we can fine tune the system to match the demand and effectively plan major projects where they will do the most good. We have big new trams and big new tram stops that are under-utilised because we run tram and train services to a frequency more suited to a sleepy outback town than a big thriving city of 5 million people.

Do they really think people will actually use trains other than trams down Swanston Street even though the trams are free and the trains aren’t?

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How many trams will get their own dedicated tram line. If the trams become stuck with regular traffic, There is low incentive to take the tram. Even when there is congestion, it's more logical to have the trams a flow of movement so you can put more trams on 1 track and people dont pile up at the tramstop because the tram is late, again. also make the space of useless parking spots along major roads dedicated tram lanes and or to dedicated safe bike lanes. Trams can carry the most people per square meter through the city. more trams less cars.

I would imagine train horns and safety will become more of an issue in the near future as it already is a nuisance for residents living near Metropolitain rail lines and stations. Philip do you have access to this The Train Horn Working Group? Can you find any information about how the working group will find ways to conform with RiSSB Code of Practice - Rail Traffic Train Horn Use? We the residents have had enough with train horns.

Agree, we now pay extra for what ? Dirty, Crowded, always late trams. The old trams need a ramp on oneside for prams & shopping trolley's extremely hard to lift a pram & trolly up the steps. Wake Up Tramway Organisers get your act together and make Excecutive Decisions dust iff the Cobwebs and do something.

What about the New G-class?