"Bigger Caliber Advantage" Let's talk about it! 

🕵️‍♂️ In a Video of Jim Harmer's, He Showed His Hunting Partner Shooting an Audad at 350 Yards! Just As He Pulled The Trigger, It Moved 1 Step and He Shot It in The @ss! This Video is Yet Another Demonstration Why "Long Range Hunting" Should Not Be Attempted! Proper "Hunting Bullet Selection" is Something Else That Often Gets Overlooked By Inexperienced Hunters! So, It is More Than Just Cartridge Selection! We Need To Bring Ethics and Hunting Education Back Into Our Sport, To Save It! 😇👨‍🎓

Confirms my thoughts on these ideas. Real world hunting vs competition, there are different tools for the job . 30 cal is the sweet spot

71+ year old fud here. Started reloading for ‘03 Springfield 30-06 with the original Lee Loader when I was 16 years old. Good detailed episode. The correct answer for hunting is as large a bullet diameter with as much weight with as fast a velocity with the best accuracy in your rifle with as much recoil as you can handle. Sectional density and momentum are both important. More than BC until ranges get to where wind deflection can really make a difference. I definitely agree on the range limit. Most hunters, especially weekenders who don’t practice enough, can’t keep their shots in the kill zone much past 300 yards under real world hunting conditions. Cold, rain, wind, uncomfortable shooting positions, nerves (aka buck fever) etc. all take their toll. Over the last 50+ years I’ve taken more deer with my Ruger 270W with a 22” barrel running plain old Hornady 150 grain spitzers at around 2850 fps than with any other rifle I own but that’s because it’s the sporting rifle Ive had the longest. It’s only in the last 20 years that I began adding rifles with cartridges/calibers from large to small just because I wanted them including 300 H&H, 338-06, 35 Whelen and 9.3x62 Mauser. On my central Kansas farm I can have a shot across a bean field at 400 yards or 50 yards in the creek bottom timber. I’ve never had to take a shot much over 300 yards. Most closer. Modern optics and bullets have done a lot to level the playing field between smaller diameter high velocity cartridges and the slower, larger diameter, heavier bullet numbers. Elmer Keith wasn’t right about everything and neither was Roy Weatherby. Here’s some amazing numbers provided by the Big Game Hunting Blog comparing the 35 Whelen with a 225 grain bullet at 2700 fps to 30-06 with a 180 grain bullet at 2750 fps. Both the same high quality bullet sighted dead on at 200 yards. Muzzle energy for the Whelen at 3643 ft lbs vs 3023 for the ‘06. At 300 yards the Whelen still has 2,223 ft lbs and is down 8.7” while the ‘06 has 2003 ft lbs and is down 7.9”. 220 ft lbs more energy for the Whelen and less than one inch more drop. That will put the maximum effective point blank range for the Whelen at around 275-280 yards with a “Plain Jane” reticle scope. Even at 400 yards the Whelen is still carrying 1863 ft lbs with 25.2” drop and the ‘06 has 1731 ft lbs with 22.8” drop. The drop for either can be compensated for with a modern dial it in scope. At 500 yards the Whelen has 1551 ft lbs 29:38 energy which may or may not be enough for elk depending on who you believe regarding that number. Definitely more recoil for the Whelen but it’s manageable especially if the Whelen has a little more weight from a heavier profile barrel or scope. There’s a reason the 35 Whelen was called the “poor man’s magnum”. Close to 375 H&H performance with decidedly less recoil and cost. It’s the best example I can think of for the advantages of bigger diameter heavier bullets at moderate velocities. All hail the 30-06 case! Happy hunting boys and girls!😊

I completely understand. I love my 708 but recently picked up a 338 federal and started hand loading. I can squeeze 3400 foot pounds of energy out of the 338f without going over max load. It's awesome.

Hey, really good video, thank you. For me, I grew up born and raised here in the Inland Northwest of Idaho mountains, close to the border of Montana and Wyoming. My older brothers, dad and I are (were, my dad rest in peace since '82) not fair weather hunters, and outdoorsman. When we have opportunities to plan outdoor adventures, particularly with hunting, the weather does not effect us going or not. We go rain, snow or not, we just go. Most of my life's hunting has been in cold, rain and snow. And that means wind also. I gree up as a young boy reading and studying ballistics, my oldest brother tried keeping up with me. Him and I gravitated towards magnums very young in the '80s. At 10 years old I went from a 243 Win to a 270 Win to the 300 Win mag by the age of 14. My oldest brother at 17 years old ended up with the 338 Win mad and that was whet I gravitated towards also. We hunted Whitetail Deer but our pursuits were mainly Rocky Mountain Elk. In the 80s we were hunting in Grizzly country. We'd go deep in the mountains on foot and stay for a week. Hunting was more important to us than school. So I guess that my thoughts here are we hunted in foul weather deep in the mountains. From a 338 Win mag I went back down to the 300 Win mag and handloading with heavy bullets, the 230 grain was a favorite. Now, these days I really like the 300 PRC but it is also a bit much weight wise. So for a lighter weight rifle packing at 54 years old I am figuring on the 7 PRC with heavy bullets, like a 195 grain Berger. I have a 308 Win and a 5.56 223 and a 300 Win mag and some other that I might be able to dig out of the lake. I still like the 243 Win to flatten coyotes. And may trade my 22-250 for the 22 Creedmoor. I may even get the 6.5 Creedmoor, it's just a fun hobby. I love my 30-30 Win, and am planning on putting together a 35 Whelen. I don't just shoot across mountains but also a lot of thick forest and condensed brush. I pass up more shots that I'd usually take with my 300 Win mag and focus on getting closer. It is common to take off hunting from spike camp hunting and end up spending a night on a mountain because of closing the gap on a herd of elk. I really enjoy hunting, but if I want to go out shooting that's another sport for another adventure. I really enjoy successfully shooting game animals and love wild game meat. I don't enjoy dialing in a scope for a shot and many times am using iron sights. Though I do use rangefinders. Just not on every shot. The vast majority of my hunting and taking game has been without rangefinders. I think that this summer I'll start shooting a 35 Whelen for the upcoming fall season, or just use my 358 Win just for enjoyment once again. If it gets close to the end and still needing an elk, I'll grab my 300 Win mag. Or maybe a 7 PRC 😉

Bigger hole, faster blood loss, more blood trail. The biggest wound I’ve seen is a power belt 245 aero tip with 150 grvol of black. Blood and organs everywhere. 2 big holes. Incredible expansion with full penetration. Significant recoil.

Energy really is not what kills. Energy and velocity factor more into bullet performance at range. The damage the bullet creates kills. Not in all cases, but in most. Just my opinions.

There's always a trade off. Great video with good information

I like your comments on practical hunting distance. Thank you sir 😊

It is very interestintg how big bore bullets (In a given cartridge)can be driven faster than the same weight bullet in a smaller one. My fav example is the 30-06 Vs the 35 Wheelen. A 30-06 200 grns bullet about 2700 Fps, A 35 Whelen 200 grns bullet 2950 Fps

Heavier shorter bullets of the same grain weight will have a lower friction factor on barrel wall thus the higher velocity

I will say this . Elk drop with more authority when I hit them with my 35 whelen than they do with the same bullet weight out of my 300wsm . Saying that …. They are equally as dead and the 200 grain out of the 300wsm do a great job . I always opt for my 35 these days tho as I’m in thick grizzly country and I like having 225 to 250 grains of lead on hand for them . I now run 200 grain barns tsx , 225 accubonds or 250 partitions . I believe the 225 accubond is as close to perfect for the whelen as you can get . 2800 at the muzzle . I’m following the same velocity and trajectory out of a 3006 case as a 3006 shooting a 180 . Huge advantage

👨‍🏫 We Need To Look No Further Than The "Evolution of Jim Harmer" (Today's Backfire Video)! As He Has Gained More Experience, He is Now Identifying These 4 Cartridges (He Hasn't Given the 30-06 a "Fair Try" Yet) For Most People: The 270 Winchester, 280 AI, 7mm-08, and 6.5 prc (Which He Has Already Admitted is Not A Good Choice For Elk and Bigger Game)! Eric Cortina Went From a 7mm-08 to a 280 AI For His Hunting! I Could Name Many U-Tubers That Would Pick the 30-06 as Their First Choice! So, The 30-06 Case and Some Close "Derivative" (If Not the 30-06 Itself), Seems to Be The Best Choice For Most Experienced Hunters! 😯

I have been trying to figure out why my 7mm-08 struggle to throw a 175gr bullet the same speed as my 308 can. Thanks for the info!

This is why 6x45 is a bamf! It is such an underrated cartridge almost 3400fps with a 55gr nosler from only a 16" barrel... an 6mm-204 is even faster right there with a 22-24" 22-250 velocities but less powder less muzzle blast an a 16" barrel 🎉🎉

Great video, you explained this really well.

If you would take a air rifle with two barrels with different caliber, but the same max pressure in the tank. The bigger caliber bullet will go faster. But it will slow down faster from the air. The bigger area back of the bullet = speed. The bigger area in the front = drag.

Very interesting subject

The easiest example for the theory is 35 Whelen compared to 30-06. Pretty impressive. But in the end 100 ft/s are inconsequential in 99% of situations. The bigger hole through the animal with sufficient penetration has a way bigger effect. That’s why I stick to my .30s, a 6.5 has 27% less frontal area

Bigger caliber advantage. Look at 30-06. Then 338-06. More area for gas to push on in same weight bullet 338 is faster. Great video. Science baby !!!

You make a lot of sense!

All things being equal and achieving say 100-200fps more with the larger caliber, will lead to zero noticeable actual difference in effectiveness. There are ZERO definitive tests to make a conclusive statement that one is better than the other on game. Also the energy separation lessons as weight drops. So two projectiles say 120grs everything equal but the larger caliber pushed 200fps faster only produces about 300ftlbs more energy. Step that up to 200gr it is about 500ftlbs more energy. However, again, at normal hunting distances (300yds and under) in the real world animal is dead and won't notice the difference in 200-300ftlbs of energy difference. Now throw in all the different bullet constructions out there and this wholr argument is thrown out the window.

Guys that grew up using a 22 mag to hunt deer dont quite get it but to each his own I guess .

Compare a 200 grain TTSX in 35 whelen at 2850 fps vs a 30-06 with a 200 grain LRX at 2550 fps. Out at sensible hunting ranges like 350 yards and in I will take the 35 whelen every time. Puts big holes in elk.

Square/Cube rule dictates larger calibers have higher potential (and realized) BCs. Oddly there are exception like .277 that tend to get short changed below the curve. I've been railing on this subject for years. It takes time but you can create a curve to see the baseline advantage and see where bullets should fall in different calibers (all things being equal which they never are). The best way to do it is take all the high BC target bullets from Berger/Nosler/Sierra etc... and start plotting the BC's/caliber. With .375/Berger you can get over 1 for a BC!!! Let's see a sub .30 caliber get anywhere near that!

🤠 I Am Glad That You Brought Up Barrel Life! This is Exactly Why The 308 Winchester and 30-06 Will Be Around For Generations To Come! Though Many People Don't Value That In Their Youth, They Will As They Get Older! Young People Like Fast Cars, Fast Women, and Fast Cartridges! But, The Mature (Smart) Adults Know Better and Value Reliability and Longevity As Their Lifrstyle! 👴

While watching the video I started thinking about the calibers I've used which span from .243 to .338 in a variety of cartridges. I was thinking back of all the game I've taken. I have ONE cartridge that has dropped the animal where it stood 100% of the time, no matter what bullet, speed, shot angle and distance - the 6.5-284 Norma. Only bullets I've used in the 2 rifles I have in that cartridge include 130 Nosler Accubond, 127 Barnes LRX, and 140 grain Berger VLD Hunting. Not that this has meaning but I've taken a LOT of animals with a LOT of rifles and cartridges. I bought quite a few identical Tikka T3x rifles all in 30-06 with the intent on only keeping one of them, maybe 2, in factory configuration. The rest will be converted to 280AIs, but now I'm thinking another 6.5-284 Norma and a 270 O'Connor - which, is nearly the same thing as a 270 Ackley Improved. And, this is not keeping the 270 Win brass and changing the shoulder but rather necking down a 280AI to 0.277.

If the surface area of the tail of the bullet is a deciding factor, then the shape of the bullet, and not just the diameter, would have a bearing on the result. By that reasoning, two bullets in a .30-06 would have different velocities if one of them was a boat tail and the other was not. So, there's more to it.

Lawyers also neuter some calibers. Two notable I can think of, 7x57 vs 708 and 45-70 vs 450 Marlin

Have you played with suppressors yet?

All benefits unless long range

Speed is not as important to me as S.D. I need it to penetrate.

I defer to Elmer Keith on this.

I hunted whitetail almost exclusively with a 30-06 BAR Mk2 Safari for years......the difference in recoil between a 150 grain to 165 grain isn't noticeable.....the difference in recoil between 150 grain and 225 grain is so severe that the latter is almost intolerable. However, the recoil from a 225 grain fired from a 300Wby Mag (Accumark) is less noticeable than the 225 grain fired from a 30-06...and the BAR is heavier. I think the way magnum powder burns contributes to this.......

I think you’re down a bad path with that 130gr TTSX load. You’re overpressure and seeing the velocity spike that TAC is known for once it gets there. Idc what the brass looks like, you’re pushing 100 fps faster than you should be seeing based on book data. You’re pushing a 130 faster than book data for a 125 with a 24” barrel and TAC. I’ve seen the same thing with that powder in various bullets and it’s not the number to hang your hat on. I’ve seen it group on those loads as well, but you’re on a razor edge and a 15 degree temp swing is going to significantly alter that loads behavior to the point I wouldn’t trust it. Load how you want, but holding that up as a comparison point to the 270 WSM without the optimal powder is not a great argument.

BC makes a difference in windage fast. Just plug numbers into a ballistcs app and look at 400 yards (let alone beyond). I think 3" is very notable if you are at 1moa in all likelihood anyways (meaning you could be right on and yet be off by around 7"). That's just at 400.

Barrel life is meaningless on a hunting rifle. I laugh when the effiency crowd whines. The same with complaining about ammunition costs. Compared the the costs of hunts, even expensive, inefficient ammo is cheap! Like the 28 Nosler. Who cares. It gets the job done. Again an advantage.😅