Upgrading my 10 year old homemade jointer to use a big induction motor. More about the jointer at: woodgears.ca/jo... Plans for the jointer: woodgears.ca/jo...
Another improvement would be a noise optimized opening. On professional planers, the opening between the tables where the cutter head comes through is more of a comb than a continuous mouth. That way less air gets trapped between the cutter head and the table edge thus generating less noise.
Oh wow, that's a huge difference. I mean, you said ( i think the last time you talked about this jointer) that the motor was loud, but i had no clue it was THAT loud. :))
You should hook up a Kill a Watt power meter and measure the two motors, especially when jointing a wide piece of hard maple or oak. The induction motor might be capable of pulling a lot more than 1 HP when the slip angle is high.
Many continuous-duty motors have no problem to deliver ~3 times the nominal power for short amounts of time, although this might be less for a single-phase motor then for a three-phase motor. And of course, this is not the case for motors that already have a dubious horsepower figure. There's a large difference between a motor that lists a continuous duty output shaft horsepower, and a motor that lists a short time peak electrical input power.
@@mlindholm Wouldn't that be overkill for just making a quick test? He's used pi's for years but it's not like he threw the kill-a-watt into the garbage bin once he started using it
The noise of the cutter head is generated when the straight knife passes the infeed table. One way would be to make a bigger gap at the table. But this would bring other issues. That's why a lot of planers have a toothed edge on the infeed table. That decreases the noise since the knife of the cutter is no longer passing by a straight edge.
"1HP before inflation" HA! Man I'm CONSTANTLY arguing with people over things like this. Customer/Boss/Etc: Let's go with this new one. It's only 70% the cost and it's rated 25% higher! Me: Right. But it's apples and oranges. That old one was rated so generously that you could turn it on and walk away for 10 years, and when you got back it would just be going out of spec. Me: Then you can send it to get rebuilt for 10% of the cost and do it again. Me: But the new one? It will run at that rating for 3 months. If you are gentle with it and keep the duty cycle under 35%. And you keep it perfectly clean. And you are lucky. Me: After that it becomes scrap copper and steel...
I remember you found teething the table to be unneccessary with the old design. It might be time to reconsider this now. That said I am surprised 1hp is enough power for this. I would have guessed one would need at least 2 hp to keep it going nicely, especially with broader and harder workpieces. My 10 inch jointer has a 2,5hp three phase motor and that is plenty enough, although I haven't dared to take off more than 1,5mm at once with anything wider than 5 inches. Thank you for sharing and nice work as always. Greetings Also Matthias
I like the sound of the old motor more. Just the same how I like to stand next to starting planes, rockets, bombs exploding, vulcanoes erupting or my toddler when there is no more ice cream left over.
There's two different formulas they use for calculating electric motor horsepower. One has something to do with the motor's RPM. It's how vacuum cleaners can have such ludicrous horsepower ratings and not be false advertising. They're using that RPM based formula. Your fast universal motor likely uses the RPM based formula too. Big Chungus motor uses the other formula.
It's likely that the big motor is rated based on Dyno testing, and is rated to make that power 24/7 at 40C ambient for 10, 20, or 30 years. Industrial motors are crazy over built for home shops.
@@Cynyr no it's what I said. There's different ways to calculate horsepower. Look up how do they calculate the horsepower of vacuum cleaners and you should find a link that explains it. Because that's where you run into it the most.
Cutting freehand on a table saw like that will catch up to you, I simply don’t care who the operator is. I’m a professional woodworker who used to do that on occasion until one day using that technique hurt me bad. It happened so fast I didn’t know what happened for the first few seconds after it happened. Impossible to see it coming and prevent it, even if you think you have reflexes like a cat.
Curious to hear more about motor power “inflation”. Are you just suggesting induction motor power is grossly exaggerated like shop vac motors? Love your stuff!
basically, in "the old days" stuff was rated more loosely. And it was also rated so that it didn't fall below the rating during the use period, and under most conditions. They were designed to be rebuilt, so you didn't want them to start failing because the coils were failing. But now? They get rated for the minimum duty cycle and MTBF that they can get away with without getting hit for fraud. It's kind of like comparing a tractor trailer engine to a Honda Civic engine with a GIANT turbo. Both will do ~600-650hp, but the Civic engine is literally on borrowed time. It's not an "if" but a "when" it's going to blow up.
Thanks for another great video! I still want to make one of these. A helical head ($$$) would run quieter and give a longer lasting smooth cut. Most of the noise now is from the three flat blades slapping the air so when you turn on the dust collector, you are now slapping turbulent air making even more noise. My couch potato quarterback opinion 🤣
That wedge lock system looks like something that would be very reasonable to make completely out of wood for anybody with a lathe. Specifically the ones that don't mind using it. Would probably beat any of the other wood pulley fastening methods out there as well.
Like the idea! Although two things concern me: 1. the strength of the wood will probably not suffice to endure the high pressures at the key 2. Using hardwood (which seems the most logical thing for me to endure the stress) for the cone part on the motorshaft may result in rather large movements of the pulley due to shrinking and expanding. Do you have any idea how to work around that? Otherwise I might actually try it one day, even with the little grooves for the v-belt in the pulley.
@@matthiaswandel I think you can - you should double-check, I just placed an order a few months ago and had no issues. They can be expensive and shipping is always a surprise cost - but it's never outrageous. They often are the only place to get some things. And I like their CAD models which can be imported (and 3D printed) for prototypes! Of course, the wooden pulley is more fun!
@@matthiaswandel Surely a US viewer would be willing to receive and then ship it to you? I'll volunteer if no one else will, but I'm in Texas. Someone closer to a primary border crossing probably makes sense, like Michigan.
These MMC comments miss the point: if MW just bought what he needed, he wouldn't be MW, that's just not his style. The whole reason we're here--1.7M and counting--is that he doesn't just buy stuff like the rest of us schlubs.
I've seen adjustable V belts at stores that are adjustable but not sure how effective those would be for you. That motor looks about the same size as my 1hp Delta Unisaw bullet motor from 1944 and oh boy do those things have a lot of weight behind that 1hp!
With a belt that long would you not think of adding an offset tensioning third wheel? With it being so susceptible to small amounts of movement even a slight stretch over time could generate enough slack to cause issues.
As a citizen of the BIG SKY I consistently applaud ALL citizens of CANADA. You rock. I have a RIGID planer jointer that I am very proud to own, but yours sure looks like it can go the distance.
What about a power amp noise cancelling setup ...that.would be for overall reduction of noise for bystanders ...not you the operator as you have your ear protector head set on....unless you don't have an audience while you operate your planner.
Nice upgrade! It might also be possible to reduce noise from the cutterhead by modifying the table. Some jointer tables have a row of small gaps instead of a straight line at the edges facing towards the cutterhead. As far as i know this is also meant to reduce sound from the cutterhead by giving the air more room to escape when the cutterknifes pass the edges of the table. Concerning your motor: why is that motor so big having only 1hp? When you presented your fathers selfmade tablesaw, it also had a motor that seemed to be really beefy for the 3 hp it has. You made a series of really interesting videos about induction motors. If your into it, I'd like to see you adressing this topic of motor-build-size in connection with hp in another video eventually!
Older technology. Thicker wires and thicker insulation, lower temperature ratings, stator/rotor made out of materials that saturate at lower field strengths, older understanding of how magnetic fields should be shaped in a motor. all of this combine to require a larger frame for a given power rating. Also, larger overengineering factors too. That motor could probably run at 150% indefinitely. My grandfather had an _ancient_ 5 HP motor running his air compressor. It was about the size of a wine cask, and 3 times heavier. But, it was still happily running a century after its birth. Let's see how many modern 5HP motors are still running 100 years later.
😢 Ouch. McMaster is so convenient for projects like this. Their online catalog interface is the best I've ever seen. Sorry to hear they don't ship to you in Canada.
A good source of ribbed pulley's and belts is the automotive industry. A quick trip to the local wreckers (junk yard) will provide an amazing range of pulleys. Also, very interesting that the sound of the cutter head is amplified with the dust collection on. I am guessing it has something to do with airflow over the spinning head.
Yes, might be an interesting video in itself on silencing machinery. I hate those bloody universal motors, I don't know how Matthias has tolerated that one for so long especially inside a house. I wonder how difficult it would be to sound insulate that universal motor.
@@jefflormans5441 universal motors are small and bloody fast. Once those cutters are hitting the work the noise difference is a wash. Most universal motor noise is the brushes on the commutator. Planers are one tool I use ear protection operating.
It's like the spinning impeller blades rapidly block and unblock a sound chamber making it effectively change size. Think acoustic guitar. Maybe some strategically placed sound-deadening mat such as Dynamat would quiet it a lot more.
Next items in his bucket list are : Induction motor made from plywood cutoffs V belts made from scrap pallet wood Amazing work btw, I am a big fan of his work.
I mean 1 HP is only the rating for continuous operation. You can still drive it with a higher voltage by an RPM controller to get more HP out of it. As long as you don't run it for hours this shouldn't be an issue. :)
Guten tag. Ich suche schon seid längerem den Bauplan von deiner Bandsäge ich hoffe du kannst mir behilflich sein. Sag mir bitte wo ich den finden kann ???? Danke im vorraus
Finally, great upgrade! Building of this jointer was the first thing I saw on this channel, and fell in love with it. I thought how great it would be to build one, just with induction motor and maybe even with helical head :)
Well done as usual! I was curious to see if the new motor drew more power from the larger pulley or went over it's factory rating? (I'm not criticizing, this is excellent work)
Hey Matthias, really nice video! I have been waiting for this one, and I really like the result. Looking forward to see the next video about the upgraded cutterhead. Greetings from south Germany
After "With the cutterhead now making most of the noise, the logical thing would be to switch to a carbide helical cutterhead, but those are quite expensive." I kind of expected you to say "So I try to make something out of wood to go on there." Looking forward to see the upcoming video.
Matthias, I am wondering about how you keep your little ones safe from your machines. Keep the door locked to the workshop, naturally, but what other measures do you use?
That's the biggest 1 HP motor I've ever seen! It's probably rated 1 HP for continuous use without a great deal of cooling, I'd wager its peak power is far higher than that.
It’s amazing how much quieter that is now. Also interesting that it makes more noise when the dust collector is turned on To me it sounds as though the cutter head makes more noise. I guess that’s the air flow passing over the cutter May also be that the air flow is being pulled different directions over the cutter head as apposed to just the cutter head pushing the air ?? Lol
Excellent. Sounds like a real jointer. I would have been tempted to make the bottom pulley convex so its self centering. Not sure if that would have worked. Looking forwards to seeing it with the new cutterhead.
I think you should use a 3450 rpm motor so that you don't need such a large pulley. That is a nice motor but its to slow for a jointer I think It would be better for a bandsaw.
I would suggest a 5hp induction motor at 3400rpm with a custom pulley. You need a machinist friend to make you a good pulley. At that rpm, you should be able to get by with +/- 6" bottom pulley and you can find a smaller pulley for the top.
You've got at least 3 bandsaws within walking distance, but you freehand a cut through the tablesaw.... I can't wait to read the comments! 😆😆😆 The noise is sure a lot better! I've thought of adding a helical cutting head to my jointer, but then I think the planer is really the place for it, but then I'm not sure an old "lunchbox" planer is the best thing to upgrade, so maybe the jointer is the place, and then I just end up deciding to not spend the money...
Mcmaster-Carr's Canadian shipping policy is annoying BUT I have found that if you simply give yourself a business name and put that in the ship to address they are happy to ship to Canadians.. Does make you wonder why they have the policy to begin with??????
Nice upgrade. Thank you to your viewer (Sorry Sir, by the time I got here your name has slipped a bit and I’d rather not butcher it) for the very kind donation - looking forward to THAT upgrade as well.
Now it sounds much more like old factory-built jointers I know. Not so much about noise level (but reduction is significant), but also about a "tone" in which it hums. From angry wasp to bumble-bee.
McMaster ships to individuals in Canada now. Just make up a business name. Also, the motor isn’t big because it’s North American, it’s big because it’s old and inefficient as hell.
McMaster-Carr in Canada: go into any fastenal and they will cross reference any MC part number. About 90% of the time they have an equivalent, and its usually a fraction of the price.
As noted a good source for mult igroove pulleys is the bone yard. And yes there is the size problem. Install a jack shaft if needed. For belts an auto parts store. Multi groove belts run quieter than regular vee belts. As to turning the OD of the pulley to the proper profile the grooves are a 40 degree included angle. Surely you know somebody with a real lathe.
Hey Matthias, McMaster-Carr does sell to us north-of-the-border sweaty masses. Their shipping is super fast too. Not free, but sometimes it’s nice to tap into that massive catalogue.
liquid silicone to the wood pulley path help in some way the life of the belt as wood is not a big friend of the rubber at these rpm, silicon helps in car belts when they make a dry screaming noise that embrasing you in public haha and do not make slip like oil will do, silicone just hidrate the rubber. Congrats for your projects. Unbelievable size for 1 hp motor :O
when you use that kind of belt (serpentine belt),you have to put a rogue pulley in the way.best place to install that,is the middle of two pulley,a bit to left or write,just make sure its on the circuit.(go to the near car repairing shop,you will find all this tools in perfect condition). i love your works.
In the meantime adapt the old motor to power a pencil sharpener, that would be another wood project out of the way - nice click bait titling "My new log sharpener" or some such.
I often wondered one thing about these motor upgrades: is it possible to hook up two weaker motors to power the same machine simultaneously in order to increase (possibly 2x) the power output?
It depends on the type of motor. You can probably mix any two universal motors as long as the speeds are somewhat close. Permanent magnet motors should probably be perfectly matched and induction motors you might be able to get away with a bit more variation as long as the specs are similar.
you would really want two of the same motor. The amount of "slip" varies by motor, for example. So two induction motors connected together, one might be doing most of the work because it has less slip.
the reason that the jointer is louder with the dust collector on is because the knives force air pulses through the gap and turning the dust collector on amplifies the amount of air in those pulses. very similar to why blowers are sometimes added to sirens to make them louder.
Matthias, I ordered your box joint jig plans. but to make that had some other stuff to finish. Finished a wood extension to my table saw, make a new box / stand for the table saw, now thats built my out feed table is not the way or size. So ill build that table out of solid hardwood, then im gonna start working on the box joint jig. My next thing I want is to either make a 12" planer or 15" have not decided yet. Ty for showing this stuff its amazing!! :)
@@matthiaswandel ya I honestly thought that to. My father , and I just sat here , and re watched this video he was in awe you made it. I said dad this is the dude I learn all my stuff from haha.
