Well the fact that your opponent is one of the longest running world champions in all formats of chess should be enough of a motivation... especially when you're 19
my first thought was "but everyone would notice because he'd be looking up" and i think that solidifies my very saddening conclusion that i am genuinely dumb as hell
Hikaru brought up a more legit conspiracy of what Magnus is actually concerned with. Magnus was suspicious that there was a mole on his team leaking his strats and lines. So the theory is that he played a really obscure line to watch Hans directly play against it proving to himself someone on his team is betraying him. He left the tournament not because he was mad about the L but because someone on his team has violated his trust. He hasn’t accused Hans of anything in public because the beef is personal and within his team.
For some reason, cheating allegations in professional chess are so much wilder than in any other game. A few years ago, Anna Rudolf was accused of hiding a supercomputer in her lip balm. Yep, you read that correctly; a supercomputer in a fucking lip balm. If nothing else, you gotta admire the creative thinking of the accusers, though I think they may have read too many James Bond novels.
This came across my feed by chance but I find it really interesting... for the record I don't play chess I really played it a couple of times and that was years ago. But I do watch a lot of sports and sometimes the underdog Who has absolutely no chance whatsoever sometimes pulls it out. cheating is a very harsh allegation in any sport. I would imagine chess is no different. However one thing that I'm noticing here is these are allegations and very creative ones. from an outside perspective there are two possibilities. either this guy pulled off one of the greatest upsets in chess history apparently from the way you guys are talking about it. or he did cheat but there's no evidence that he did other than speculation and accusation which don't hold water.
@@xinpingdonohoe3978 Sorry, I never edit any comments. No exceptions. But you could always edit yours, and then tell me your spelling mistake was all part of the plan.
It's kinda reassuring, isn't it? There's a fantastic interview with Carlsen somewhere on RU-vid which takes place in the London Eye. So basically, he is in this specially designed transparent capsule, raised high into the air to provide a panoramic view of the city - *and he doesn't look out once, not even a single glance.* All he does is talk about chess, the entire time. 🤣
He’s also misrepresenting this. The footage shown of the tighter security was added after Magnus withdrew. As far as I know there was no wanding before the match with Magnus.
He started it didn’t he? He posted the “I don’t know I can’t say” or something. I’m pretty sure he was salty he lost. The dude could’ve cheated but he did a shitty move.
@@mannyballs5751 Magnus has never called out anyone for cheating unless it was blatantly obvious, even in games he was absolutely crushed in, he is always a good loser and friendly player. Thats why this stands out. He doesn't get "salty" without reason
Magnus was made aware of, or was possibly already aware of Hans's previous cheating, so he left the tournament. I really believe that is all there is to it. The guy had like 50+ wins in a row, and didn't want to lose to a possible cheater. Let's give Hans a few more opportunities and see how he does. If he truly is good enough to beat the greatest of all time.. something something.
@@daggerdick6973 anal beads are obvious? I’m not saying the dude who went against him didn’t cheat but he had know way of knowing. Furthermore it’s a dick move to just say it and leave your fans without explanation target someone else.
I love how Charlies mind works man, I mean, he goes "For those unfamiliar with CHESS" arguably the most popular and well known board game in the entire world, however, he goes on to discuss anal beads as if we are all already familiar with the product.
People know chess exists, but Id wager a fair amount of people have never even played a proper game of it. Anal Beads is pretty self explanatory ngl. Idk im tired rn man
I'm confident in assuming that far, FAR more of my coworkers have intimate knowledge of anal beads than of chess. They might _kinda_ know what the pieces look like, but that's it. Kids ain't exactly shy about their interests, man. XD
@@BeFourCM Funny but for real this is true. He can expect most of his viewers to be familiar with sex toys, as he has worked with them many times before. But he has only done chess a few times and rarely on youtube
There's a big problem for Hans here. The best players can feel if they play aginst a human or a machnie. They know how the patterns of play are and they know how good the opponents are. The fact that many top GM's suspect cheating from Hans makes a great case against him even tho they havnt found anything physically yet.
But if you watch a play-by-play review by Hikaru or other GM's they actually point out how Hans's moves weren't actually the best, or even amazing. He just played very solidly, while Magnus played bad.
@@leeallen5132 hans' coach once suggested you'd only need to cheat 4 times a game to guarantee a win. Obviously we need evidence to come to a conclusion and for the time being he is innocent but just because he made some not so perfect moves doesn't mean he's innocent either.
Magnus had a lot of chances to equalize that game, but his play was off that day. Hans did nothing out of the ordinary in that specific game, but because of his past now around 50% of people think he's guilty with 0 evidence.
When Charlie first mentioned the anal beads, I thought it was just a wild analogy to explain how crazy the situation was. I was shocked when he pulled up articles of people actually accusing the dude of using anal beads 😂
The only reason I wasn't surprised was because I saw Elon Musk share on Twitter a Reddit post suggesting that the beads were responsible for Magnus being the top chess player for as long as he has been.
To me, the actual reason Magnus withdrew is probably that he talked to someone confidentially about wanting to play that line and that person snitched so the information ended up at Hans, or something equally unspectacular.
Also, I think it's not uncommon for Magnus to start making blunders after several HOURS of chess. I don't know how many hours both players had played that day up to then, but chess tournaments are some of the most mentally taxing things for a human being. Magnus was probably burnt out, while Hans was on fire that day.
as a former chess player that was active for only two weeks this is truly heartbreaking on a personal level, i never expected something like this out of our community
remember in school when you had a math test and you were lucky to have memorized the same exact problem that was in the test? maybe this was one of such cases. Hans was lucky to have studied the same strategy Magnus chose to use that day
This would be like studying your history class for the math test, and then getting 100%. Because Hans was up against an opening the other guy NEVER used. Why would you study that?
@@je7055 a lot of hard questions are in a certain structure and there are pretty specific ways to solve them that aren’t obvious at first, so it’s not a completely inappropriate comparison
@@trequor Unless he was just super pumped that he won and said that he studied HIS line instead of THAT line. Which is more unlikely, that he misspoke or that he had a 5G vaccine tracking chess bot up his back passage?
First time viewer. Just wanted to say you are a very confident, eloquent, witty raconteur. Very entertaining! Thanks for this recap…now add the two move withdrawal online and we’ve got ourselves a story.
I hate being that guy but I think you mean unpredictable. "Unexpecting" makes it sound like your some kind of super villain about to unleash a plague of anal beads on chess players.
Imagine being so good at Chess that when you lose everyone instantly thinks your opponent cheated. Seen vids about him, can definitely understand why they would think that.
yeah, the main problem is that, Magnus has lost before but he has never done something like that + the interview that was so sus. I think is just an accumulation of factors that crated the whole problem and not just one specific thing.
It's not that he was too good(he is) but that Hans is really bad Statistically Hans should have won 1 in every 100 games vs Magnus Which is just nuts that Hans won
@@MattM-oe6qs that's not how statistics work bro... LOL It means that's there's a 1% chance every game of Hans winning and a 99% chance of Magnus winning every game If we translate that and add on to it the fact that Hans is a known cheater, knew all the 20 initial machine movements of an Opening that Magnus had never played before and also couldn't explain his though process for his moves Then I think that maybe he cheated
The most compelling theory imo is that carlsen has suspected for a while that someone on his prep team has been leaking info, so he chose an obscure line & behold, niemann just happened to have studied that kind of line for their match. When he asserts that he never cheated over the board, he could still feel truthful if the cheating was during prep off the board.
@@perspectiveotaku3438 yes, Magnus' seconds who have known him for 15 years decided to leak preparation to some random grandmaster in a classical event. People who don't actively play tournament chess don't realize that preparation is a two way street. You can't just leak some preparation, if you leaked some, you have to leak all of it, because his prep is also based on what his opponent's moves. and are kept in large databanks. And if you try to tell me that Magnus Carlsen, world champion, was outprepped by someone who looked at his prep that morning and he has been looking at it for years, I'd think you were delusional. (I.e Hans recieved a wildcard to be in this event; he knew about his participation for a week max. and if you try to squeeze 10 years of world championship level preparation into a week, good luck lol) This also means Magnus is a bigger piece of shit than ever before because if that's the case, he just let a 19 year old kid get harrassed on the internet for two weeks when a 5 word tweet could've stopped it if it was a prep leak. Also, Magnus' seconds have already come out on chess24 saying that theory isn't true at all ^_^ but it's plausible because that's' what you want to cling to. If you ignore all the facts, then anything can make sense.
This story became really crazy for me when I found out Hans Niemann had taken trumpet lessons in my house when he was about 8 years old. So he went from this shy gifted kid that was sometimes waiting in our living room to a guy potentially playing Magnus Carlsen with anal beads morse code hahaha
Something to note is that Hans did not play the best moves most of the time, and played a few sub-optimal moves which could have sabotaged his gameplay. So, at the very least, he was still able to execute the win with some of his own moves.
This could potentially have been him throwing in his own moves on occasion to help throw off anyone who might think he's using a bot. Purposely choosing not to follow the moves on occasion just to further hide the moves that were from an AI. Or to avoid moves that would more obviously be made by an AI. That's just a potential idea though. Would still be risky throwing in his own moves either way if he was cheating. But this is all still assuming he did cheat with this line of thought. No way to say for sure until someone comes out and says it with the authority to say so.
@@snickersnacker4502 yes, cheaters do intentionally not pick the best move but that would involve the computer relaying all the top 10 moves to him because sometimes he plays a move which is fine but not in the realm of even the top 5 computer recommended
@@puzzLEGO Lets be honest, the scariest and most powerful cheaters would be the ones that actually have the skills to back themselves up without the cheats.... Though the idea of him having to casually sit through over ten moves worth of Morse code vibrations is hilarious.
@@puzzLEGO The thing about chess cheaters in pro settings like this is that the person cheating is already insanely good at the game. Even if Hans were to cheat, it's safe to assume that he'd already be amazing at the game without cheats anyway, so he wouldn't need the bot to tell him the top 10 moves, since the move he'd do with his own skill is most likely already in the top 10.
I also heard one possibility was that someone on Magnus’ team gave Hans inside info on what line Magnus would play and that’s why he studied that one specifically. Crazy stuff either way
that would make a lot more sense. Because his tweet implied a conspiracy that would have consequences for Magnus himself if he spoke about it. One guy cheating is not a conspiracy, and it wouldnt really get Magnus himself in trouble if he revealed it. But if his own team mate collaborated it would be an actual conspiracy and that revealing it would have consequences for himself too
This is also extremely unlikely considering Magnus could have chosen to play a number of hundred lines depending how he was feeling, that’s a 1/1000000 odds that someone would betray Magnus and end up choosing the right line which Magnus would end up playing
It doesn't really make sense tho, first "magnus' team" isn't a bunch of randos, it's close friends. And I would have to be paid very handsomely for me to betray Magnus, a multimillionaire. No one could have paid a member of his team to betray him
@@EA_SP0RTCENTER crazier things have happened. I’m not saying it as fact, it’s just a conspiracy as to why Hans decided to study that random/specific start.
@@EA_SP0RTCENTER Never underestimate the power of greed.. I mean, just watch true crime shows, people kill their spouses over small life insurance claims. Or perhaps someone who felt betrayed and wanted revenge.. the possibilities are endless.
It’s so funny that he referenced it’s always sunny in Philadelphia and then it’s always sunny in Philadelphia make an episode about this very situation🤣 Rob definitely watches Charlie
@@Hydro-_- lives aren’t on the line and they play a game for a living. This is the literally definition of meaningless drama. It’s like a baseball pitcher getting caught with stickum. Literally meaningless.
12:00 Also, the Champions Chess Tour: Julius Baer Generation Cup had Kenneth W. Regan on yesterday, a chess player and mathematician, and he has made the engine that detects cheating. He had analyzed all of Hans' games in the tour and the one he did with Magnus, and he found nothing that indicated cheating.
This trick has been around for years, Back in '72 I beat Kasparov with a Commodore Pet shoved up my ass. Man did that thing throw a lot of heat. Anyways, I feel sorry for the guy with the wand who will now have to add a goatse check to his pre-game inspection repertoire. I'd rather be a little league umpire and take all the abuse that comes with it.
12:45 Someone spends 4 hours making a device that could do that, and another person is making a open source project trying to demonstrate that it could work... but he just need someone willing to test it.
Reminds me of the cycling era of motors in the bike cranksets. Fabian Cancellara had the most suspicious race. And then the unproven rumours of electro magnets in the bike stays and in the back wheel.
If he did cheat, it was probably through espionage, going into the tournament ahead of time already knowing what strategy Magnus was going to try and preparing against that ahead of time. Maybe not cheating in the technical sense but probably in a bit of a weird gray area.
Ok how would a 19 year old chess player get the most respected grandmaster in histories prep when said world champion has a tight knit group of seconds that would literally commit career suicide in his name.
As a guy that has only played chess once years ago in school and lost This has me quaking, shaking on my bed i am absolutely quintuckeled insano indeed
Magnus loses relatively often, it's more the fact that he withdrew from a tournament which is extremely, extremely rare in chess combined with Hans' behavior. Moreover, Magnus is the single most respected individual in the sport. It would be like Federer, Nadal and Djokovic all accusing the same person of cheating. It's not proof but you damn sure have to look into it.
One of the oldest tricks used by con-men criminal liars, is to admit to a lesser offense especially earlier in life so as to make themselves come off as more trustworthy and believable in the midst of a present much heavier criminal case.
First off I'd like to thank you Penguin for keeping it with the facts, and not the emotional garbage that has shat it's way upon the net. You kept it open, you kept it real, and as a fellow chess player I truly admire that. Now onto the show. A decade or so ago, a group of buddies of mine were asked by a high (not pro) level chess player to devise ways of cheating. So we did. We came up with hearing aids with vibe function that could beep very softly but gently vibrates the ear canal. We have thought of glasses with thick sides that could house a small vibrating receiver. Fake skin along the collarbone area to conceal a small transmitter. Basically most avenues of cheating currently available with present technology. And our conclusion was simple. There only needs to be a low level "jamming field" covering the 2.4GHz and 5GHz region and that alone would eliminate about 90% of the cheating. But.....and I do stress BUT....there are other frequencies ,and even the use of light patterns emanating from a small, mid infrared laser that could potentially be picked up by a set of contact lenses specially made to "see" a particular wavelength and others would not see it. The "lights" would be simply aimed at the player and a morse code to transmit the chess notation (1 thru 8 vertical and A thru H horizontally). After that it would only need to say 1 dot for 1 vertical and 1 dot for A (2 dots total) and for say H2 to H4 would be 4 dots to indicate Vertical Line destinstion of H4 and 8 dots to indicate the Pawn at H2. So it would be saying "move pawn at H2 two steps to H4. Now I'm sure a more compact code could be devised, but this is just a VERY basic way to send cheat moves. It seems extremely difficult and elaborate, but there have been cases of transmitters being in a pant cuff and an individual in a bathroom or room that isn't visited with a computer rig sending moves.
I was at a chess competition once, and a guy literally had his phone sticking out of his pocket that had the position on the board 🤣The tournament director was called and the guy started crying lol Cheating in chess now is easier than ever, but it sucks when it comes down to competitions with prizes and etc. that it's something you potentially have to worry about. There've been times when I played people I thought were cheating, I keep my eyes on them. Anyway, great video!
Very easy to cheat actually. You can just go to the bathroom during the match and use stockfish to your benefit. Any player above 1600 ELO with decent memory can easily reconstruct a positon on their phone after leaving the board. And then getting a full evaluation from the engine. Giving them information about who stands better and key ideas in the position. It's so easy to get away with, without raising any suspicion, as long as you don't abuse this and check for every move. Best you can do is probably just to be aware and keep your eyes on suspects, as you said.
The most believable and reasonable explanation I've seen is that someone close to Magnus leaked the strategy he was gonna use against Hans. So Hans obviously just prepared for it like he admitted in the interview
@@carpedm9846 well Magnus only used the line once and usually they study the more used lines because the person is more likely to do those lines so the chances os hans knowing the line that was used once is very low
Thing is, as a chess player you don't just have this secret "chess strategy I'll use tomorrow" diary or idea like chess is a perfect information game that's not really a thing. People have been talking about leaked opening preps but 1) If you wanted to leak his prep which is already weird if you had something against him or smth *you don't give it to Hans when he is playing black against magnus* 2) the more real point, you don't really have one opening in this secret folder, when you prepare for a game you look at multiple lines and sidelines on your chessbase which is basically like a large note system software for chess so if someone was to leak his prep that would be like me asking for some cheat sheet before a test and someone handing me a book. Han's interviews have been absolutely dogshit but there's no clear indication or any indication that he cheated. It's just magnus leaving the tournament which is an absolutely terrible thing to do in a round robin tournament made people think it had something to do with cheating and then chess streamers like hikaru just hopped on that bandwagon for content. Clearly magnus thinks he did cheat because he didn't come out to clear anything up for this entire time but there's simply no proof so that's just being a dick
