Billy Corgan On What Makes A Great Songwriter 

Rick, can you interview John Feldmann ?

One of the best interviews you've done Rick. Billy is such an intelligent and interesting guy to listen to.

Many songwriter don't know how to teach songwriting or explain in simple terms 😢

That was a very great interview , you really bring out the best in people .

Who said that?

He's not arrogant at all here.

In the full interview with Rick he basically takes credit for the sound and success of Nirvana's Nevermind. When you look around the internet there's a lot of negativity towards Billy for that kind of attitude.

I love both Nirvana and Smashing Pumpkins, I grew up with them, I listen to them frequently to this day. I'm also a musician and producer, and the truth is, Billy is and has always been way, way better musician and songwriter than Kurt ever was. Kurts music was simple and beautiful, but his success was more of a combination of factors rather than just pure, raw talent.@@scalzmoney

I agree. Being arrogant and being confident are two different things.

👍🏼 that gets 2-up from me =[]

criminally underrated comment

And the awesome zero performance on that episode :)

Study circle of fiths and you will realise it is maths

Smiling Politely is a great band name

He’s not under appreciated bro

never seen or heard anyone under appreciate Corgan he's been called a genius since their 2nd album

"Underappreciated?" The guy has had tons of fans, tons of money, and, most directly at your point, tons of accolades.

I think the term you're looking for is over-hated. much like how people are picking one word out of your beautiful story and hating for it. I feel like for some reason it became popular for teenagers of the late 90's and early 2000's to love the Smashing Pumpkin's music, but somewhat hypocritically hate on Billy at the same time. For some reason it seems like many people that are attracted to unique new styles of music and arts often reject those same things when they become too popular. It's like they can't get over their own ego in feeling like they themselves are unique for liking a unique thing, and the growing popularity is for some reason seen an assault on their own individuality.

@@St0rm301 there’s a reason ppl don’t like Billy. He’s very pretentious and unlikeable. Just is what it is. I’ve been a lifelong fan, literally a die hard fan of SP and Billy since I was 6 years old. I’m 38 now and still don’t particularly like the guy. The “hate” or at least dislike is not unjustified, he is a very difficult person to work with as history has proven and you can see those characteristics in his personality if you follow him long enough

Lol.yes!! I thought he sounded like shit too!!! I love sp,and billy Corgan,but what the hell is this?? Lol.

😂

I'm dead 😂😂

You bad boy 😂

Who happens to be Herbert the Pervert from family guy

I thought the movie That Thing You Do captured it pretty well. Each time they play the song in the movie it gets a little more refined. That last version in the movie is very different from the early one.

Wire are great, and That Thing You Do is a good movie

why not both?

Leonard Cohen certainly makes you feel and think

Yea, with that, it actually knocks out a lot of genres that make music to make you think. Easy for Hendrix to say that when he was high all the time.

Right. He is not conceited, he is inspiring others.

ROFL

He has humility where it counts how about that haha

Inspiration is a muse own it's own. Where does it come from? I was inspired to write a song about it myself.

Billy is a total douchebag. Or does how he treats other people not applicable?

Hate really, or what exactly? I just ignored him, personally, I’ve simply never connected w/ any of his work.

@@Olehenry While the Smashing Pumpkins were active Billy was known for being rude and just a giant POS to other people. Particularly his band mates.

Bro glazing him

It's a 50-50 thing.... You can pick a guitar with allllll your emotions but if you don't know technique... It's as good as NOTHING. He was trying to be drastic and territorial... And I get why, because nowadays it's more mathematical than emotional - let's just put a beat, a simple relatable melody, some lyrics and BINGO. And yeahhhhh... It's an EMPTY, SHALLOW, COMMERCIAL thing. Just like sausages coming out of an assembly line.... Granted, there can be special songs in that way. But my main point is... You can't exactly point a finger on what. Some will lean on emotion, some will lean on technique.... You can separate or join them... There's great songs that are simple and amazing (like Nirvana or ACDC) or complex songs that are eternal (like Metallica or Iron Maiden). It's the FINAL product that matters! If you're emotional or technical.... That's just your style

Mine are Megadeth

@@marrow94ironic, mine are both.

​@@marrow94mine are Hanson

Jane's with Eric

I appreciate the Pumpkins, but Soundgarden made 3 amazing albums that fill me w such an intensity. I wish Chris was still around :')

I use the same train of thought, I say my musical tastes go from The Wiggles to Cradle of Filth. That about covers everything lol.

I might have told you that 😎

He was a music professor at Ithaca College for many years.

Naturally, a big reason why he's so good at interviewing famous musicians is because he knows so much about music. It's the opposite of those chicks that MTV or VH1 would send out to touring rock stars back in the day; basically census takers with good looks. Funny thing about the "why" in music is that knowing about it doesn't _really_ help you write a great song. Obviously knowing theory helps immensely, and it'll help great songs sound great-er (lol), but the secret sauce is all in the artist. It's a funny paradox.

Nah, he wouldn't take that from Neil.

@@DoubleTailedDog I don't get it.

@@bveracka😳 he talking bout Neil - the professor - Peart 🌹🥁🌹

I don't get why people hate him. Granted his voice is like nails on a chalkboard, but I love his music and his oh so Hendrixy guitar playing

He used to be really arrogant. I saw him up close at the 1994 Lollapalooza. The Beastie Boys started talking &%$# about "The Smashing Pumpkins," I forget which one said it, but he said it the most sarcastic way and into the microphone as they walked off the stage before SM came onstage.

@@rolex3560 your little story makes the beasty boys look arrogant not the pumpkins lmfao

@@Bloodyshinta1in 1994 the BB were super arrogant.. they got famous behaving like little shit heads then went on to apologise about it later.. frankly no one would know who they were if it wasn't for their shit behaviour

OK.@@Bloodyshinta1

Wrong. It is a good guitar for the money. No need to waste money on a good guitar if you can't play or have no interest or talent to take the instrument seriously. Spend enough to not physically be injured or disuaded from learning on a piece of crap. To that end, Yamaha puts out a reputable product accross the board. To your overall point- yes you can get a better sound on a crappy instrument if you can play versus not, but it's not what you want. Given the limits of this guy's technical ability and sound consciousness, the low end suits him.

@@---wd3hp so you're saying Billy's not a good guitarist?

@@piper888 relative to what? Playing around the campfire? Rick is a BRILLIANT GUY- providing an incredible public service. He has encyclopedic knowledge of guitarists and yet panders to this guy. I do not doubt that he likes his songs. He can change my mind on alot if it has his seal of approval. This has me flummoxed. I had a college professor who told us to compose a song of one instrument and two notes. She proceeded to over-intellectualize my composition. I interpolated this and that. Nonsense. I see Rick who knows better, disecting this guy's pedestrian at best composition. I hear Corgan displaying the knowledge of Jobim and Bachrach and yet I do not even see a hint of an ear to even hear an homage to those geniuses. He also takes a loose shot at the Beatle's originality. Would love to hear him expound on that. Rick Beato knows all too well how difficult mastering the guitar is, to annoint this guy as a skilled anything. Watch his interview of Matteo Mancuso, a generational talent. Allow for the fact that one does not have to be a technical master of the instrument to be a genius composer. Bachrach and Jobim were two great examples. They also never purported to be instrumental masters. Rock and roll farts with uneducated fanbases have no problem taking credit they do not merit. If you watch the Mancuso interview side by side with Corgan, one is obviously a musical genius instrumentally and compositionally. The other, really does not really need anything more than beginners guitar skills to do what he does. The guitar is little more than a prop. His melodic and harmonic concepts are lost on me. I can't distinguish it from three blind mice nursery rhymes. Bores the crap out of me. Don't get me started on Bruce Springstein..... To your original point- You were correct about the brand but not about the player's discernible skill level placing demands on the instrument's attributes. I went back and heard other examples of his work on better instruments and was not persuaded otherwise.

He's definitely well spoken and articulate. It's impossible to tell someone how you write a great song and what makes it so good, but he comes close. 'Seems obvious that he enjoys talking about his music. Many of his peers from the nineties don't, so I'm soaking it up.

Not even so much his vocabulary, which is vast- but his clarity of vision and what he wants to say, is incredible; comes thru in his music too.

@@robertmahoney1662 He definitely has a very "deep" way with words which comes through in his songs. His aren't cryptic puzzles - kind of like Maynard Keenan of Tool whose lyrics I love - but they're also not so straightforward that they're boring. I guess you could say one hallmark of good songwriting is the ability to get your message across succinctly, and Billy can.

Yes I could listen to him bullshit all day

most artists have high iq, specially songwriters. I mean he can write, he is supposed to know how to speak or say things.

In my experience, paying attention to everything that *could* be a song, or a part of a song, helps a lot. It could be a single interesting rhyme, or a melody, or even just an ambient sound; whatever it is, pay attention to it and don't dismiss it. Write it down, record it, or just do what Stephen King does with his story ideas and trust that, if it's good enough, he'll remember it. Having lots and lots of scraps of things to turn to when you need something to help you write is far better than having to start from nothing and work with nothing.

For me I just pickup my guitar everyday and noodle around (basically just improvise) and sometimes (maybe like once a week) I'll randomly stumble across something catchy and I'll start singing along a melody, and maybe some words will come to me. I think most people have the capability to think of a vocal melody at least, its not nearly as hard as you may think.

Hey there budding songwriter! Here's my approach from years of experience. Study and learn the music of all your idols, constantly... And focus on learning pitch by ear. You don't have to learn to read or write music (unless you want to of course!). But learning by ear is the best way to be able to work with others quickly. And eventually it will only take you a minute or two of hearing a song to know the chord progression and its melody. Pretty useful if you want to play music with others too. But that's just my philosophy. But anyways, back to studying to music of your idols... do this before you even attempt to write your own music. Listen. Internalize it. Study the way the melody moves and or the chords progress and you'll start to realize there are a hell of a lot of repeating patterns! And if you want to really be good you'll want to go back to the real real greats, i.e. The Beatles, Bob Dylan... then go learn from who inspired them like Muddy Waters, Howlin' Wolf or Leadbelly to get an understanding of where modern music came from and the strength it takes to overcome such adversary when the world wants to hold you down! You'll basically be enrolling in a master class of songwriting and music history... It will be inevitable that these great songs from the legends (especially the intoxicating sounds of Motown) will start to help you develop your own music! Reminder, ALL art and its creators are preceded by the artwork of those of their idols... thus don't be afraid if something you've written is inspired by something you've learned. There's a very finite number of musical notes, so focusing on developing rhythm is not only fundamental but your path to being original. Obviously you'll learn to develop your own style and strive for originality... But the key to becoming a great songwriter/musician (like myself, not gonna lie), is learning from the greats and then those who inspired them to do just the same. Dont be afraid to fail... you'll write 100 terrible songs before a good one emerges... If someone tells you different, they're full of it. But you'll learn from your bad songs just as much as you'll appreciate the amazing ones that will eventually strike you out of nowhere. It does happen and it's a rush in and of it self. Personally, the way I write is with a melody... on anything, a guitar, piano, bass or even a solid drum rhythm I've been kicking around... then I let it settle in my mind... and it slowly starts to fester into ideas and takes shape... then you gotta work at it... tweak it, let it be for a day or so, come back with fresh ears and see if it holds up... Also, just like any instrument, lyrics take just as much practice and patience. Try starting with poetry, like daily simple Haikus that you will train your brain to start seeing and perceiving the world around you differently... Write whatever comes to mind... No one has to read it but you until you start to feel confident in your new found poetic/lyrical view of life and this world which revolves endlessly in a beautiful flux of ever changing chaos through an infinite timeless cosmos! Trust me, I've been writing and playing professionally (guitar, piano, bass, drums, vocals and a litany of other bits and pieces, haha) for going on 20 years... not to be crass, but BMI handles my publishing for a reason... I mention this with the hope to not to be perceived as coming off as being holier than thou, but only so that you can maybe feel better about taking advice from someone who doesn't just talk the talk but has some boots made for walking (Nancy Sinatra pun intended!). I genuinely enjoy helping others find and foster their love of music. If you think about it, it's one of the few things every soul has in common, a desire to listen to music and appreciate those who are capable of crafting it. I have been lucky to have had the extreme fortune of doing my fair share of studio session work for bands and cowritten tunes with them or for them in times of need. Just know this, the voice in your head that you are looking for is already there, you just have to learn how to listen to it and nature its creative impulses. It takes patience and faith in yourself to make it happen. Not one single songwriter or artist didn't have to put hours into their art to make it worthwhile. Artwork of any kind is an emotional rollercoaster because it takes being in tune with your self as well as subjecting yourself to unnecessarily and unavoidable keyboard warrior critics who just want nothing more than to make themselves feel better by trying to tear you down. They never have the chops or credentials to judge anyone but themselves. You'll be fine so long as you feel confident in finding your own artistic identity! Feel free to hit me up if you need any more advice or pep talks. You can find me on IG @queenhenryviii and on all streaming platforms as Queen Henry. Be patient with yourself, listen and learn from past artists who've paved the way for everything you think you know about music and you'll be surprised at all the cool shit you'll be digging. I'm sure you'll be writing tunes in no time! Cheers and best of wishes on stating your path to becoming a fantastically talented songwriter. -Aaron (Queen Henry)

i don’t think it’s that simple. he openly admits to ripping the beatles which is certainly not musical contrarianism: everyone loves the beatles. he’s just speaking more generally about the personal voice in his head. sometimes you do want the harmony to lead naturally in a song. just depends…

You hit the nail on the head. To me, Mellon Collie represents the breakdown or dissolution of traditional art, culture, morality, forms etc. But unlike most post-modern scribblings or abstract shapes, it features those very forms. It’s like a Picasso sketch painted by DaVinci. It has this tongue-in-cheek perversion of a children’s fairytale aesthetic, which is blasphemous but endearing and relatable all at once. It’s how you can have songs like Ode To No One and Beautiful on the same record. So few artists paint with every color on the palette. The ones that do are contrarians and iconoclasts… perhaps not always, but at least in the sense that they can and will zig no matter how much people want them to zag. They are doing their own thing. That’s what Rock n Roll is to me.

A lot of people mellow as they age, especially musicians

@@jackstraw522especially everyone I think. We’re all full of angst when we become adults and see the world and think our way of coping is the best way. Later ya learn. Eh. I guess whatever way that gets you there works. Lol. But you need that fire to really get going without being distracted.

@@threeofeight197 on the other hand a lot of people get very frightened as they get older

@@jackstraw522 lol. Maybe you’re right. The ppl who start off mellow become frightened. And the ppl who start out freaked out mellow. Hmmmmm. So maybe one day I will be mellow then. ;)

I’m not a huge fan of smashing pumpkins but I like them, and I’ve always gotten the impression that Billy was being Billy, unapologetically. Many people put on masks, and act nice, but I’ve always respected artists that speak from the hip, not to be rude or edgy but because they are secure in themselves, regardless if they lose or gain fans.

"The". It makes me chuckle when I see that. You may only know them as this name. Its not monumentally important that they (Billy) officially switched to this literal mistake because it was commonly mistaken. I laugh because adding the word "the", turns Smashing Pumpkins from a verb into a noun. They were a mischievous verb. Now theyre "Smashing, baby!" as well as pumpkins. And, let's face it, thats what the author chose to turn Cinderella's coach into after midnight.

I hear u. Mellon collie is a masterpiece, and the artwork on that album to this day is still magical to look at. In every way the album was perfect

@@PukeSkyywalker the simpsons also played with the grammar of their name, if you’ve ever seen the sp cameo in an old simpsons episode. Homer meets Billy. Billy shakes his hand and says “Billy corgan, smashing pumpkins” and Homer replies “Homer Simpson, smiling politely”

Beautifully stated

They hit me too with Siamese Dream when I was 12. Something about their music just captured the transition out of childhood perfectly.

Hear, hear!

They suck lol

agree with everything you said man, there are not many rock bands with such a stellar discography like SP's, some flawless records there they and even managed to make a near-perfect double album which is almost an impossible task.

@@FREESPIRITSTHEBAND lol man im so glad my level of expectation of “rock” is higher….SP’s are BOOOOORRRRRIIIIIINNNNGGGG!

Judging by your screen name I have 2 years on you, but for sure I know exactly what you mean !!!

half a century!!!!!!

You don't know how happy I am to see this comment. Billy shouldn't be defined by his few bad moments in interviews when he has a giant list of great moments with his music and interviews like this one where he's just wonderful.

@@SupermanNew52 EVERYBODY has bad moments... This is what these people don't understand. Because they NEVER been in their shoes. Life is not the same for everybody... When you achieve greatness... You'll understand why God doesn't seem to give a sh*t... If you believe in such bs of course.... Because you're operating on another level! While some people are interested in mundane-superficial-dumb things, others are interested in metaphysical-deep-complex stuff. Sort of 'Creating a World' vs 'Living in the World' type of thing... Living in the world you don't grasp the importance and significance of things, they are just there. Creating a world you know what those things mean and took to exist. And when you are operating on those terms... Usually the thing will be sort of an Intelligent vs Dumb thing. You know that those things usually don't end Amicably. That's ONE of the reasons I'm an Atheist... Because God supposedly should be perfect! And he's more like a human than a deity... With his imperfections and criticals just like humans. However you can't criticize him on the same level has you criticize humans... It's another level, another game. I don't judge personalities... I judge their work. And I know that me judging works, liking or disliking, doesn't matter much because it's all biased and subjective anyways. In other words, it's a selfish thing! It's MY POV, it's MY taste, it's MY opinion... And that's a Fascist thing! Because my likings have no superior value than the people that dislike. So Billy did some mistakes... But were those his intentions??? Because we can make mistakes without a clue of the damage we will cause... The difference between a good person and a bad one is not exactly the good or evil that they do... It's actually what they meant with their actions. You can use violence to harm and you can use violence to protect... And when you hear Billy, he's not the same as before! He grew up and you can hear his wisdom. He was ALWAYS a good dude! It's just the world fell on top of him and he wasn't aware of the dangers that were in it. And of course he did mistakes! If you don't know the jungle... You will step on a snake EVENTUALLY

Metal heads with diverse music taste are always the best and most kindest people you'll run into.

You rock

Pumpkins has a heavy sensibility but very very very folksy vibes as you can hear here. Billy Corgan is a fusion act just like Opeth. Folk music that a metal head can enjoy.

I think he’s correct, but I also think he hasn’t done it nearly as well as he thinks

One thing you stated which I disagree with is "write songs with ease" The reality is the greatest songwriters put in severe amounts of effort, and editation on the work. Even the greatest, Chris Cornell, Slash, John Lennon, Kurt Cobain. I'm not saying their basis to work from is always hot garbage. But melody is a lot of work and it isn't always a single person doing the writing. It's band cooperation and the reaking talent from every member. For example even in Chris Cornell's solo work, every piece was worked on my additional musicians and instrumentalists, considering Cornell wasn't a arrogant dude, their inputs were considered and they paid off. It's a pretty clouded judgement to say 'so and so' was gifted and it came easy to them. It's the solace that they find in music aswell as the dedication in their music. Singers become better singers, guitarists become better guitarists, bass players become better bass players and songwriters become better songwriters. Even artists like Dave Grohl continue to downplay their abilities and musical understanding but the truth is he has and like many other musicians who do so, great musicial ability and understanding.

@@bigdawg6308 Well damn. I’m just glad there wasn’t two things you disagreed-with. Paragraph much? Just for you, I’ll clarify that legendary artists, songwriters, composers (or the other variables I didn’t clarify for you) didn’t magically crap-out music. IT IS A GIVEN the elite musician works. That’s what makes them elite. IT IS NOT A GIVEN that they can tap-into a special place to take it further. That is what makes them legendary. If you need just one example, I offer Devin Townsend. Not responding again.

@snail415 There's no point responding with such ignorance anyway. No musician magically puts together a piece of art. I suggest listening to demos of your favourite artists, then find info about producer input.

Yea babay

@@BloodSweatAndMeth Muzzle. Here it's the raw acoustic, so it'll sound different on the recording.

Ty Segall wants to have a word with you

I was 20 when *Gish* was released. The first time I heard it was in October of ‘91 so about 6 months after it was released. My good buddy Derek turned me on to them. This was also the same night that I heard Nirvana’s *Nevermind* for the first time so it was quite an evening. I was very high on something my friend, Trey called ET. He was a microbiology major at Arizona State University and he had this powder that was used to facilitate the growth of bacteria and plant clones. It came in a big black bottle with a big white skull and crossbones on and somehow he thought to eat it. Well, it got you very high indeed. Somewhere between ecstasy and meth. Anyway, I digress. I thought Nirvana was great but Smashing Pumpkins BLEW MY MIND! Sonically they were bombastic and fuzz-laden but still very clean and super tight with their own unique blend of grunge, alternative, and psychedelia. *Siva* in particular rocked my socks off and *Bury Me* was just on a whole other level. And *I Am One* was, and still is, a perfect opening track. To this day, when I think about or hear that album, I instantly taken to October in the valley where all the sensations and smells still remain. I miss my friends.

Why did u just need to mention Roger waters weirdo

I was lucky to see Billy solo on guitar or piano, as the song called for. It was incredible.

I guess James Iha is a huge fan of them

Yep, and SP are still great live.

Dang Nick, that's quite a complement. I'm just learning about "The Great Pumpkin", I loved the interview. The song writing stuff is fascinating, and his offer of scholarships coming out of high school but took his chances on his own road. Lots to admire.

He's raw-dogging the NWA into oblivion because of his ego.

Ooh! With Chamberlain?

@@DaveyMulholland Yes.

That's my least favorite pumpkins song.

His stuff is so raw and emotional that it might have been impossible for him to articulate. He’d probably just say play something until it sounds good and keep practicing.

Really ? Billy is great but I prefer Cornell's work

@@karuonline3294 No one I've ever heard in all of music has done more with the modulation of the texture of sounds than Billy has. And those textures actually serve the song and aren't just randomly employed to make a song sound different than the last - it was purposeful and intentional and worked within the context of the song. Listen to the outro of Beautiful, or the swirling textures of 33 (and the outro, too). And By Starlight. Those sounds are so perfect and dream-like. The Beatles would use quirky sounds just for the sake of it, whereas Corgan opened up a second level of music altogether with his pursuit of texture modulation.

Nobody mentions him when talking about Nirvana lol

It's because it's true. I love the big four grunge bands(Nirvana, Alice in Chains, Soundgarden, Pearl Jam) and the other bands like Stone Temple Pilots, etc. But I don't know how someone can even try and compare albums like Siamese Dream or Mellon Collie and the Infinite Sadness to their stuff. I'd say Soundgarden's Superunknown is close though. I believe it has something to do with the fact that Kurt, Layne, Scott, and now Chris are unfortunately no longer with us. It adds a level of mysticism or something to the music. I don't want to come off as someone who hates these other bands, and I'm sorry if that's the way it seems. I don't. I have every album from every band mentioned here on CD and vinyl, and went to shows and wore their shirts when I was a teen in the 90s. I'm just saying that if Nirvana was a 10, The Smashing Pumpkins are 11.

I don't know why folks would be shocked. Nirvana isn't everyone's favorite band.

@@lomarsweed6604 Nirvana is way more popular than The Smashing Pumpkins right now, and always were. They are also more praised.

@@SupermanNew52 What's your point? Would you really be shocked if someone said (insert non-Nirvana band here) was their favorite band? I'm not even debating who's more popular. I just don't see how saying you like the Pumpkins more than Nirvana would "shock" anyone unless you hang around a bunch of 12 year olds.

@@lomarsweed6604 I never said I would be shocked at anything. That was the other person. And my points are self evident.

8:20 - to me, is the core of what he's talking about.

What highschool