Another part of a video series from Wordonfire.org. Bishop Barron will be commenting on subjects from modern day culture. For more visit www.wordonfire.org
I read horror stories every day of children being abandoned and abused BY THEIR OWN PARENTS and I think, some people just are not meant to be parents. It's just not in their nature. People who choose NOT to have children, don't all do so because they simply want more vacation time. Some people actually take the time to think whether or not they'd actually make good parents.
@@an6893 lmfao so u think that nassasitsic parents who hate gays and shame people for being them should wait fr god to give them the “grace” of being a good parent? Wrong lmfao, my mom left me. How’s that for “grace”
My mother often said; you shouldn’t need a marshes license. But you should need a license to have children . I think of the passage that Jesus knew you before you were born. And he knew your parents. And your grandparents ect ect ect 🤫
@@an6893 you are this religious folk who will be judged the most. I bet you're one of those in the church clique clacking and judging with other Karens and trying to tell people how to live. Grab a Bible maybe and study it. There's no text saying you HAVE to have kids. Jesus was single and many others. Better to not have kids with a double minded or reprobated woman or man. This way many also end the generational sin. What's your interest in others procreating? How about mind your own business when it comes to that according to Bible? Shame on you Karen. You don't follow Jesus at all. You're one of the hypocrites who made me leave Church and abandon relationship with God but restored years later but never going back to "church building" community but living faith out here 24/7. Not having a baby is definitely not a sin.
I am glad that you have found contentment without children. My wife and I regret not being blessed with offspring as we are old now and somewhat fearful of the future. My siblings and I cared for our parents in their old age and I hope that I can manage alone in my later years.
@@jameshogan6142 You assume that your children would have loved you. I know a great many children who left their parents on their own - never to visit again until the funeral.
@@sebastianmelmoth685 You are right Sebastian. Many children abandon their parents just as many parents abort their children. It is a sad reflection of human nature.
@@jameshogan6142 well, to be fair... I wouldn't always use the word "abandon". Very often, people are thrown out by parents. In the case of my best friend, she was thrown out on the streets when she was 15 because her mother found out she was gay. I do not think she "abandoned" her mom when, in later years, her mom tried to reconcile. There are some people who deserve their abandonment. In another case, a friend of mine was raped by his stepfather non-stop for eight years. To this day his mother still lives with his rapists and refuses to believe the abuse. Life is complex. Certainly more complex tha n the pretty cake tin picture painted for us by well-meaning pastors.
@@sebastianmelmoth685 Yes! Life is complex and it is difficult to find an adequate answer to the many calamities that befall us. However God's ways are as far above our ways as the heavens are above the earth. We are asked to trust God even if we do not fully comprehend his methods and to believe that at journey's end He will deliver us from all of our trials.
@@jameskearney4100 At least it sounds like he won't end up in foster care where, otherwise, only God knows what would've happened to him, much less where he'd have ended up! By the way, even those of us who don't have children by choice (for whatever reasons) aren't necessarily selfish or even bad people. If anything, I've learned from experience you can be that uncle without children and still have a positive impact on your nieces and/or nephews!
I have 2 grown children that I love so very much, but if I had it to do over again, I wouldn't. I've had mental health issues my entire life and they did affect my kids. I feel very fortunate that both of my kids are successful adults, however I can't help but think their lives would've been easier had they had a more stable mother. Children deserve parents that really want them and that make that choice maturely and soberly. There is a huge difference between being fruitful when there are only 2 people on the earth and when there are billions.
The value of a person, the ways they can contribute to the planet and the human race, are not determined by whether or not they reproduce. Women especially need to remember that they are divine in and of themselves, regardless of if they bear or raise children. Women aren't solely for the purpose of reproducing. Their value and divinity as a person is not contingent on procreation.
@@lyterman We bear the Imago Dei and can undergo Theosis (participation in God's Grace through Adoption), and so it is correct to say we are Divine *in potentia*. True, we are not Divine by nature (in that God is sui generis). I'm sure the charitable interpretation here is that Katyoora is not claiming that we are God or Divine by nature. The point is simply that the providential role for women is emphatically not exclusively reproduction. Bishop Barron isn't claiming anything to the contrary, of course. The main point is that our goals in life shouldn't be oriented exclusively toward our private good.
“The value of a person, the ways they can contribute to the planet and the human race, are not determined by whether or not they reproduce.” The bishop said nothing to disagree with that statement. “Women especially need to remember that they are divine in and of themselves, regardless of if they bear or raise children. Women aren't solely for the purpose of reproducing. Their value and divinity as a person is not contingent on procreation.” The bishop said nothing to disagree with that statement.
He seems to think that people don't have children purely for selfish reasons. He doesn't consider that some people may not have children because they don't want to inadvertently hurt them.
I don’t think having kids is for everyone. I think it’s a very respectable choice to decide to live child free if you know that kids aren’t a good choice for you.
Exactly. Not everyone even SHOULD have a child. How many adults today are estranged from their own parents, or have some type of residual negative feelings towards them? Not everyone properly rears a child, or loves them.
@@k.w.7973 Sure, but these people exist because their parents had them. Even if they have a bad relationship with their parents, surely they prefer to exist.
its funny that priest or men of God encourage people have to children. But none of them will ever want to have children themselves. Different rule for me, different rule for thee.
It's not that they don't like kids or they don't want kids- they gave up marriage and children to serve God and to serve other people, which would be hard to do if they had a family.
@@allisonwongart What do you mean? No one's saying that. Part of being a Catholic priest is being celibate- it comes with the job. In the video, he was mostly arguing against choosing "freedom" without relation to truth and values, society, etc. He didn't say women don't have other goals and priorities. Red herring.
Im 27 years old, single and male, and since around the age of 11 i knew that i dont want kids. Personally, it is not a desire nor goal in life to be a dad. Whenever i find myself surrounded by kids, i need to get out, find a place away from them, i have no love for kids, no patience. Now, many people with whom i have shared this say im crazy or wrong for making that choice, and that i should reconsider. My parents too have told me. Like i always tell them, i want to worry about what country to visit next, what city do i want to live in for a while, what cars to drive, i dont want to worry about what schools to send a child too, or what clothes should i provide them with. i know it sounds selfish, however, i think it would much more selfish of me bringing another life into a very uncertain and chaotic world, plagued by corruption, civil disturbances, terrorism, wars, etc. as well as to put my own desires aside to care for a kid.
@@veronicachic right, which provide a clear understanding of human nature moving forward. And, five years later from this comment, I can say case in point.
But why expect the least of people? Should a parent be reluctant to instill values in a child for fear of alienating them? Oh, I would enforce my standards of self respect, but I'd rather have some relationship with them, instead of risk pushing them away with my traditional values. That's not the right mind set, things are hard, but they are worth doing and possible failure can't be a deterrent when failure is always possible. And living as God asks to live is always living well.
@@brauliogomez9021 Why take a chance on screwing up multiple peoples' lives? That would be the UNWILLING parents, AND the child they don't want to have who WILL realize it. Kids are sharp, and sensitive, and can figure it out.
@@djcfield93 Condemning somebody for being childfree is an *attempt* at forcing. And if the fundagelicals had their way, it WOULD be forced, a la "The Handmaid's Tale"
kissedpeaches Be careful. I used to be a part of new age, but I didn’t realize that the true name of new age is the occult. It’s dangerous stuff and shouldn’t be taken lightly. Please be sure to do your research.
In addition to what others have said about the fact that it’s better for kids to be raised by willing and enthusiastic parents, I would also like to say that Fr. Barron glossed over the financial aspect of the decision. I don’t have the money for kids. Having even one kid would plummet me into a level of poverty to which I could never knowingly subject a child.
It doesn't need to be that expensive to raise a child. I raised 4 children on a nurse's salary, without a husband's contribution. Now I'm basically raising my grandson on social security. God provides.
@@vickibarbosa5641 You are wise and blessed. Unfortunately some of us do not have jobs with benefits or stability. Everyone has a different situation and different ability to handle what is put on them.
Straight facts. Plus no child can consent to undergoing the significant risks of life. For us here in existence we are forced to take actions. But for the none existent what right do we have to put that burden on them
@@vickibarbosa5641 Vicki, Vicki, Vicki. The tax payers provide. Besides, a lot of families are in the system because of poor family planning and very very unstable financial situations. You need to understand that you are in a sweet spot but not everyone has the ability to live off of social security like you do. I don't know how old your are but I think you need to expand your social group. So you're using God as an excuse, as to why you are able to live off of social. It's weird and quite frankly.... Dense.
I couldn't even finish. I am not living to please society or my ungrateful family. I live for me! This is beyond ridiculous. Thats why people have free will.
natalia lima silva Yes. He try to say that people who have kids are not because of private desire????!!! He literally said so in the first half of the video.
natalia lima silva Obviously you aren’t Catholic. The birth decline will effect your social security so be sure to save. My daughter is the greatest joy in my life....she is my opus.
You can't dismiss the multitude of material reasons people are opting to not have children. We live in the material world and therefore are inescapably influenced by it. A person can live for more than themselves without children as well. This guy doesn't have a family but I bet he believes he lives for more than himself. People have careers, hobbies, obligations, friends, perhaps significant, and religious convictions all of which people devote themselves to.
I've been a school teacher for over 20 years and during that time have come upon way too many parents who should NEVER have become parents. I've been amazed at the number of abused and neglected students I've had during my tenure as an educator. My answer to the childless question is simple. If you're not absolutely certain you want to raise children, don't. Don't do it because society says you should. Don't do it because your parents want to be grandparents. Don't do it because the church says, "Be fruitful and multiply." Parenting is the toughest job, period. If you aren't totally committed to it, don't do it. I've had to pick up the pieces too often in my career, helping kids whose parents don't understand the word is both a noun AND a verb. Parent is an action word, something you must do. Too many of my students raise themselves, or are raised by grandparents, coaches, and teachers because mom and dad just don't have the inclination to take the responsibility themselves.
That would be a good argument if it would not be for the fact that you are just another person on whose opinion potential parents are supposed to base their decision on. By the way - you can easily argue that people are so irresponsible today because they never expect to *have* to take care of another person or if you are not absolutely sure you don't want children you should, otherwise you will regret it. There is always another perspective.
I am totally sure that you, are bring to this life to do somethig great for you and your parents. I am the child of parents who didn"t want children and my parents love and make grow happy
@@bun197 Non-existence is just non-existence. There is no indication that it is something "bad". It's just nothingness. No surplus of pain, boredom, suffering, sentience. What I wouldn't wish on anyone is the thousands of children in satanic ritual abuse being vivisected on crucifxes after being raped past the point of insanity. I'm quite sure that they are better off having never been born.
@@k.w.7973 lmao keep coping. Stop with this pretense of objectivity about it when you can only feel these concepts subjectively. You are alive and want to continue living, no amount of trying to reduce something undesirable to the extreme to an abstract and detatched idea is going to make it palatable to you.
Having children or not is a personal choice. As long as you are not having abortions or dumping your offspring, it should not matter to the Church. So people just don't want to procreate, so what??!!
A big part of this is people who have trouble meeting people long enough to even let alone marry, a lot of people in the 25-35 range have debt, comparatively lower incomes than a generation earlier, and just can't and don't see it as a wise decision to reproduce, it's not just "self centered" young people
Exactly , Imagine living in the lord of the rings world , if we live in the shire where it's fertile and green and strong family connection support and healthy etc then it would be a great place to have kids etc but if you're living in mordor mt doom type area then HELL NO it's would be a terrible idea to even think about it lol
I watched the video and thought of people who, like me, are just too poor and aware of their situation to bring a child into the world. To make matters worse I am a chronic patient with no chance of a cure.
no one has kids for the idealistic reasons mentioned in the video, most people who have kids usually have for the same selfish and mundane reasons that some of the childless couples have. I would argue that most parents have kids to please themselves, there is nothing wrong with that but it is not as pure as some argue.
having kids to please yourself is not a sin or selfish. what are you trying to say? society has us thinking it's somehow something we should weigh whether to have kids or not. we have foolishly bought into it and economics have convinced us that kids should be considered optional. this is what God says: 3 Children are a heritage from the Lord, offspring a reward(A) from him. 4 Like arrows(B) in the hands of a warrior are children born in one’s youth. 5 Blessed is the man whose quiver is full of them.(C) -Psalm 127:3-5
Andres Salazar this is God’s plan for his creation. Question, why then is abortion a sin against God? It is a person denying the sovereignty of our creator. Each child serves in God’s overall plan. Killing those “GIFTS TO OUR WORLD” is a rejection of His plan for us and our well being. Was Einstein a gift to mankind? Was Churchill, a gift? Was Lincoln? How many “gifts” that were rejected by “individual choice” that God blessed mankind have been murdered in the tens of millions of lost innocent souls? You see we are created for a purpose and those not subjected to that authority become “little gods” and are contrary to His plan. Have we killed the scientist the had a cure for cancer? Get my point and we were commanded... “be fruitful and multiply” Our “individualism” will always be subject to God’s plan for our lives and His PERFECT WILL we must always seek as best to our abilities anything less would be sin!
@@douglasthomashayden2566 You obviously have no understanding of The Creator and you are obviously a non-believer. Look around, do you really think this world in all of its creation and even our individual bodies were some "freak" of circumstance? Really? How about DNA, even a newly created fertalized egg after conception has its own unique DNA trail. So with creation, when does life begin or when does the Creator be correctly identified by His personal stamp on creation that can not come from chance or circumstance... Circumstance?... The definition of Circumstance as once described to me as "when God chooses to remain anonymous!"
@@johncarilli2227 That's called The Argument From Incredulity, & it's a fallacy. Your failure of imagination and obvious lazy unwillingness to learn the requisite chemistry, biology, astrophysics, & statistics to see how life is not just likely but damn near INEVITABLE w/o any 'need' to fall back on presuppositional superstitious religion (I'm guessing xtianity is your preferred flavor of that addictive drug). First DEMONSTRATE this 'god' of yours before you try to conjure fell & evil magicks of authoritarian control based on your fearful, hateful childish petulance.
Can’t see myself having kids. I suffer from Social anxiety and currently in the middle of getting over depression. To top it off I have aspergers disability as well. Makes emotionally and mentally connecting with others difficult for me. Theres also the fact I am at home struggleling to get a decent job as well to support myself as well. Kids at the moment aren’t an option for me at all.
Don't even feel guilty for not having children, you have a lot on your plate now, even I have anxiety disorder and panic attacks. I'm sure if you felt called to have children, that is entirely your choice. You are loved unconditionally and you are worth it! ❤️
Just be aware that long term happiness do not come from immediate/short term pleasures. Also be aware that many short term pleasures trick you into thinking they are long term.
Your whole point here is wrapped up in the idea that individuals should contribute to their culture and to humanity, to be a part of something greater than oneself by partaking in the common good, and you go on to imply that focusing on oneself is selfish, while procreating is making a positive contribution to humanity. Tell me, if a woman of childbearing age wants to focus on her career as a healthcare professional (something we sorely need), or a teacher, or any other profession that benefits society, how is this not making a positive contribution? Especially when you compare it to having children in a time when overpopulation is a global threat, when economic uncertainty hangs over us, when many children grow up wholly in the overburdened foster care system? It seems to me the more selfish choice is to have children without regard for their future or the kind of lives they'll be able to live.
Good point and I agree with your general argument. But by that logic I think you could also make the argument....why should the concept of couples need to exist in the first place? Is it not selfish for one woman and one man to devote their intimate attention, money and time to each other when the rest of society also great need of interpersonal support? Have you read about the "deaths of despair" phenomenon? Tons of loneliness, poverty and isolation wrapped up in those scenarios. Why shouldnt these young couples sell their superfluous possessions, declare a vow of celibacy and serve the common good? There are a lot of variables...but I think the concept of a culture that ultimately emphasizes "pleasure before responsibility" is a big component of the tension that the Bishop is elaborating on.
RottenAudiobooks Good one! Also, a very logical argument for people who are afraid of overpopulation is this: Once you've reached a certain age, say 60, you must die, except if you are extremely talented or something like that, either by committing suicide or the state executes you. Isn't it more selfless to allow others to enjoy life rather than to let yourself continue to live even if you've already had 60 years? It's so easy to fall into these situations if we use the "more selfless or less selfish" argument.
@@krdiaz8026 Exactly. Although to clarify my own proposition, it wouldn't require a sacrifice of life...just a sacrifice of intimacy and pleasure. I think that would be a lot more justifiable if it boiled down to an actual choice. Other that that, I get what youre saying...we could go back and forth with this kind of utilitarian logic. Although not concerned with overpopulation...your solution evokes in my mind that scene in Marquis de Sades JUSTINE where an evil physician wants to murder and dissect his own daughter for scientific research : "Only think of it! you sacrifice one, but you save a million, perhaps; may one hesitate when the price is so modest?...it would be a crime NOT to commit it!" [emphasis added]. Also remember Raskolnikovs justification for murder in CRIME AND PUNISHMENT.
I'm trying to imagine how much college will cost 18 years from now. That and factoring in about half of the middle class being one pay check away from homelessness and with very little savings. And what about the rising costs of healthcare. Etc. etc. There really are practical factors to think about when one thinks about the commitment in having a child. It's not always selfishness. If you can't provide for a child, don't have one.
Something tells me your parents probably didn’t have all the resources they needed to provide for you. Would they have been better off (resource wise) if they’d skipped having you?
@@BeautifulGood713 Said parents might have been better off. What's your point? Do you expect OP to be grateful to his parents for having unprotected sex and deciding to carry the pregnancy to term?
@Douglas Thomas Hayden ... do I expect him to be grateful? Heck yeah! Why not? That’s what it’s all about. The circle of life man! What’s YOUR point other than being a grouch?
PLathrop financial burdens are of course something huge to think about when having a child, but I believe bishop Barron is more focusing on those couples who can handle having many children financially. The choice of having a child just because it will be a nuisance when you don't have to worry about whether or not your lifestyle choices will make you go homeless is much different than raising children living paycheck to paycheck
@@josephjackson1956 YOUR KIND of authoritarian monster have NO right to dictate to others how they live their adult, consensual lives. They harm nobody by refusing your arrogant, baseless, superstitious demands.
Personally, I feel children deserve to be wanted. If someone knows they don't want kids I think not having them is better (and less selfish) than adding to the ever growing foster system or child abuse & neglect cases. I'd hate to think of how a child might feel once it's old enough to see and understand that it is resented. Because for many who want to remain Childfree that would be the case. That and what I do with my life is between God & I, not everyone else on the planet.
Create a society that welcomes children, state supported day care, health care, after school programs, family leave, flexible schedules, paid time off when sick, and access to technical schools or college. If you expect both parents to work and wish maintain or increase your population, society has to change as well. Business have to adapt and be part of the solution not the problem.
Orrrrrr, increase the value you add to "businesses" (As if they were some uniform group conspiring against you, ugh the economic illiteracy) and bargain based on that value added for better compensation. With said compensation, feel free and engage all the specialized services you enumerated above without burdening others with your desires, preferences and consumption patterns. Reap what you sow you entitled social engineer. Nobody designs society if that society is free. Free societies (In which INDIVIDUALS associate, trade, risk, differ gratification, consume, decide, act, move, don't act, etc) are simply emergent from the choices of millions of people interacting with each other. Duh ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-gPJWwiKnYGs.html
Good to see the graph with the birthrate. And the he says its not as "bad" as Europe. Bad? That a good thing mate! To many people anyway Private desire. Well my dude. Parents private desire is to have kids.... how selfish is that? Choosing to put someone on the world without his consent? Only because you, the parent, want a kid. Still you you you. I see this as a far greater selfish choice than choosing not to have kids.
The old saying applies here: Just because you can doesn't mean you should. There are a lot of people who should not have children, let alone be around them.
Uno Carb Just because you're an atheist, it doesn't mean that God's moral law doesn't apply to you, or that Hell doesn't exist, or that your soul will not stand in front of the Judge after you die.
Atheist here. Hugs. You made a very conscious choice not to have children. Frankly speaking even I am thinking about childfree family. For one, population rate is exploding. I'm from India. I know what I am talking about. Second, kids are overrated. You don't need to validate your existence by procreating. Also we are doing favor by curbing the population for future generation. Less populate rate means more quality of life. But religionist leaders will not afford to lose it because poverty is the number one reason why they exploit the poor. That's why they condemn childfree couples and fight against contraception measures, abortion all the time. It's all a part of game plan man.
I'm Catholic and I fall into the Church''s category of the single life and it's not by choice. I'm 57 and believe it or not still hoping for Mr.Right. Having children when young is normal and desirable but it doesn't happen for some of us. I live in 'family friendly' Spokane, WA, where if your childless, your pitied and are expected to give an explanation. I may still get married and if so, I will be childless. There are many stories out there. So lets not be too judgmental.
I knew in my late teens I didn't want kid's. Now @ 59 I'm childfree and very happy. I like kid's and give kudo's to those who raise kid's with integrity, It's just not for me.
The greater point is you dedicate your life to God as a Catholics you do so one of two ways. Firstly by the loving and Godly raising of children(your biological children or adopted) and teaching scripture and doing as it says together once your truly ready to marry and start a family as part of your marriage pledge. The second option as a Catholic is using that time that would otherwise be taken up by children to serve God by serving others BUT in celibacy. Celibacy because pregnancy happens and abortion would be killing a genetically unique human. Even the most controversial of birth controls still fail and fail often when you multiply the encounters instead of looking at the statistics that act like use will be one time. No matter what the point is your not to selfishly serve self and live a purposeless life. God made "you" for a reason and our time here on Earth is short. People need to see how God is good but we are selfish. God's desires that no man parish but the things that will draw people to God require Christ's followers to "actually" follow Christ and do as he says in the scripture we often neglect reading. No matter what it is NOT about what we want, it's about doing what's right. However, if you don't "want" children you should still "want" to serve God and not struggle sexually if your without a spouse so that means you need God's help. God will help us overcome our sinful desires and place in our hearts his desires if we let him. It's wonderful to submit to God so you start to only want (and pray for) what God wants. That's actually the whole point and God can do that for anyone. Let your heart align with God. Pray for that. However, many have thoughtless and selfish "I" and "me" based reasoning or they don't even want to bother with reasoning at all and tell themselves their truth is an acceptable truth even if it stands at odds with God. I would say the greatest point is it's a heart issue that needs to be worked on via humble prays for help from God. For example, a modern teen may not want children because they are still a teen BUT they can't move into sex without doing so in a Godly way through possibly years of preparation that God gives them as a gift to mature if they accept the gift God is giving them and don't instead waste their time on bad relationships and the potential for an unplanned pregnancy. That's an example of a heart that needs SPIRITUAL maturing or even healing that can only come from God if people humbly open to it. That's not to say people that don't feel able to love others should just go have kids or do volunteer work they hate but rather draw near to God so God can draw near to them and change the desires of their heart from self to others. It will happen. Amen!
I don't posses the capacity for unconditional love which so many parents seem to have. Children born of stable parents sometimes offramp and choose a less than ideal life, children born of precarious parents sometimes defy the odds and become decent and succesful...it all feels like a gamble. One which I'm not prepared to partake in.
There are reasons for family planning?", "Can I afford to have children?", "Is it something I want?" "Is it the right time?" "How many can I afford?" and these are logical questions that couples should asked them selves and you really do not have to have children to complete a marriage. There are economic reason to have children and there are economic reason not to have children. Children are a major responsibility and can be an economic stress. It should not be a religious obligation to procreate for the lord, that is between the married couple only.
I used to think I only wanted 2 kids. Once we had our first, I realized that my previous belief was based on what I thought it would be like to have a child, which was influenced on what I thought of other people's children. I generally always liked kids, but never realized how much I would love a child until we had our own. It has been the greatest gift in the world to have 4. Not always easy, but more life-fulfilling than I could ever have imagined. The Catholic Church has been an amazing guide to help us to raise them to be good, morally sound, hard-working individuals. We like to be around them. They are great people. Thank you Bishop Barron for all your work. You are helping to create a better generation.
Fr. Barron, I totally agree with your criticism of the "me-centered" life where one's individual desires craft the shape of one's life-entirely. However (and I have 2 grown children and adore being a mom), there are people who literally should NOT have children, for many reasons. Perhaps they were abused as kids; perhaps they grew up in an alcoholic family and still haven't recovered from this; perhaps they don't have the emotional stability to bear children or other reasons. This is not always a bad thing. It is a legitimate choice to make to not bear children for many reasons, not all shown here.
Well said Annie. It is not so cut and dry as to say that we should all bear children. There are many people for psychological reasons cannot be stable parents and choose to not have children.
Bishop Barron isn't saying every married couple should have kids. He is saying that that the choice should not be based on preferences like picking a pair of socks or what restaurant to eat at. His presentation wasn't against childlessness due to emotional instability, financial hardship, etc.
Coming from a country in the top 5 (over)population number, I can attest the value of human life and dignity are greatly diminished. There are also excesses of poverty of the spirit, mental, materials and morals. While having healthy children can be a blessing, I’ve seen enough parents who are simply unfit to be parents and yet they have more kids than the average family. Lastly, our next global crisis is clean drinkable water, and this will be a test to the commandment that we should keep multiplying.
My wife was unable to have children, we tried adoption and were treated like we were criminals in the interviews, then they wanted us to tell them about our sex life. I finally stopped the process when it got this far, we were not informed of the Catholic Church being able to help us, until 7 years after the fact, we were in our mid forties by this time and just chose to live without the addition of a child or children to our lives. My wife is a Educational Psychologist, I taught 7th-8th grade and High School Catechism for about eight years, we have recently moved to another state, she is still doing the same job and loves working with those children. I do wish we had been informed when we started the adoption process that the Church would help, but, I believeGod had a different plan for us!
I don't know exactly what your experience was in all fairness. Although I will say I would greatly prefer an adoption agency to ask too many hard or even seemingly uncomfortable questions compared to not enough. They should want to make sure the child is going to be in the best possible place with the best possible parents.
I'm Christian, and what annoys me about this video is the criticism of people who don't share his beliefs. You can't claim your religion as morality and saying someone is, in essence, amoral simply because they don't hold the same beliefs as you, it is essentially religious persecution. One of the great things about where I come from is that we have the freedom to choose what we believe, and this video is saying that personal satisfaction doesn't align with his beliefs and that it is "a sort of cancer" in society, which I'm pretty sure goes against societal morality, which by following, we can become people who make an active contribution to our culture.
4 года назад
If there's one thing religious leaders can't stand, it's non-conformists.
As an Atheist, thank you Ashleigh for being the rare breed of Christian that I can wholeheartetly agree with. :) I'm off the mind that everybody is entitled to their own beliefs (or lack of them) as long as they don't push them or things connected to them on others.
I agree with your comment. Also he made a point basically saying that it would be better for people to like give back to their family and community instead of only thinking of their own personal desires. To me that's kinda sounds like he's just indirectly calling childfree people selfish and implying that having children is the only or best way to give back to family and community. As if that's the only way that people can give back and add value to society
The text was half quoted but it's still okay to use. If there could ever occur a time that humans will call women not having kids blessed, it means having kids or not is not the divine responsibility in itself it's what what you did with the gift after accepting it. Anyway, Jesus has not made a statement like this about other things that are truly commanded, for example there he/the Bible has never suggested there could be a time where you can worship false gods and It'd be seen has good, a time where you can fornicate, a time where you can cheat on your spouse. The fact of the matter is marriage and children are not commanded to all peoples because Paul and Jesus have talked like they were choices, but never once did they say (i.e about homosexuality) if it's dry in the land (romantically) and there are no people of the opposite sex you sleep with the same sex. My point is God's commands have never been posed as a choice that you should follow depending on the situation in the Bible, so to have kids is not a command. God has shut the wombs of his followers before, since when was God in the business of making his followers unable to obey his command? Also suspiciously evil people and followers of the devil have children everyday and I know the devil is in the business of making people not follow God's commands yet evil has no problem bearing children. Evil however has a problem with raising children in a godly way, so it tells me the aspect of children where human beings are capable of failing God (that is sin) is the raising of the child. Which is not a potential pitfall for childfree people as there are no children. Also there are disasters that are currently in the world where I can definitely say Blessed is the barren and womb that never bore children. The kind of disaster that elicits that comment does not only belong to the past.
Jordan Peterson says a similar thing, that a person does not really grow up until they have someone in their life that is more important than themselves. That might be true for some people but not all. My father raised three children; my sister, myself, and my mother. She still has not grown up. Beyond the biological imperative (unplanned pregnancy) a lot of people who set out to have kids do so for two reasons. One, to bolster their ego by filling a void in their lives. The second is to create their own little congregation of worshippers that serve to feed their delusions of grandeur. I agree that this victim mentality has run amok in America, but anyone who feels this way before having children probably shouldn't have kids until they overcome this enculturated form of mental illness.
I'm not being closed minded. I always said that if I had a good enough job to raise kids in a decent environment I would. Finally I will have that job starting next month! But now that I've lived and experienced many things and know myself better, I don't feel the need or desire for children. My fiance is 50/50 on this. I hope in the future she doesn't regret it. What makes my life worthy? Life itself I guess. I haven't stopped enjoying it.
In America alone there are 424,000 children in the foster care system. Not people often get kicked onto the street at age 18 so it'd be much higher if they were included. We don't need to reproduce when there are thousands of "souls" within your own borders that need peoples help.
I am blissfully married to my best friend and we agreed together that we do not want children. This isn't selfish. I am devoted to showering my husband with love and attention and he responds in kind. Aside from having no desire at all to procreate, there are plenty of other reasons I don't want kids. The 2nd reason is the cost! We cannot live on one income and I don't want to rely on welfare or place a child in daycare for 8 hours a day. Choosing to have a child should never be taken lightly.
Interestingly enough the reasons you gave were selfish. You are implying that you are in a relationship of giving and receiving and you are unwilling to deminish the quality of life you enjoy for engaging in a one way relationship.
@@jonathanrealman8415 she doesn't want someone else raising her child for 8 hours. Besides children can tell when parents don't like them. What's the point of having a child, if someone else has to raise them because the parents can't afford to? Reasoning: it costs too much money to raise a child in this economy. Seems like she's thinking with her head and not her emotions.
Having children is a huge responsibility and a great expense. You must be very sure you want to take this on before you do it. I never married, and I grew up in a large family of 6 kids. It was not fun! I decided early in life, I wouldn't marry or have kids. At 59 I can say it was the right choice, and I have no regrets. It's been a lonely road to now, but I've seen too much divorce and unhappy families. You can be a great parent, and your kid can still be a total loser or nightmare. It's not worth the risk.
There are many reasons Nathan I chose not to have children. Health was a big issue, I had ulcerative colitis at age 20. This may or may not be hereditary. It led to colon cancer 3 yrs. ago at age 56. That ended a very successful career and forced me to retire early. I have one brother who raised 4 kids. He told me long ago--having kids and being married is highly overrated. None of the friends I have who are parents have ever told me I was wrong for not having children. Yes I was lucky to be born, but in 1955 the world wasn't as crowded as it now. I would be very worried about bringing a child into the world now--I'm not sure I could protect them--that's the risk dude! I recommend you acquire some humility and compassion for others before condemning me in here. It's better not to be a parent, than be a parent and hate or resent your child. I've seen it happen, and it's not fair. Many folks don't love the kids they have--what a terrible fate for a child. We are not all called to be parents dude. Once you do it, you're in for the whole ride. If it's a wrong choice, you can't take it back.
***** It's fine if you can afford them. It would be even better if you didn't have to go through married life with the divorce courts holding the sword of Damocles over your marriage and with zero job security.
rosegarden23 Excuse me, with all due respect, the commenter said raising children require both great responsibility and monetary expense. He never said that these are reasons why he chose not to raise children. He stated these things as points to consider carefully before having children -- whether you choose to or not. Please. Let us try to listen carefully and compassionately. Let us not condemn but console. Behind every comment is a human soul that wants to be loved and heard.
So your ego is the determiner of all value. You are willing to bracket the whole of the philosophical and religious tradition, all of the wisdom of the human race and determine, wholly on your own, what is good and evil? Would you accept that logic in regard to any other area of life? You determine how to play baseball, how to do plumbing, how to work a computer, how to play a musical instrument--without any reference to an authoritative tradition?
Is it a "thoroughly objective good" to have children? I know couples who had a child late in life, just so they could experience child-rearing, as if it was a trophy to put on their resume. My own mother was schizophrenic, and I constantly ask myself if she should have had chlildren. Beyond that, who gets to determine thoroughly objective goods? The Church? After the abuse scandals and cover ups, why should I take the Church seriously regarding objective moral truth?
It is morally wrong to have sex without the possibility of a new life. The people who "decide not to have children" are most likely sinning. If you don't have sex there is nothing wrong with that.
Father. My direct experience of life up until this point has been one of enormous suffering. How can I, in the light of such direct experience and in good conscience, bring children into this world? I find the evolutionary process of creatures, of all kind and type, fighting and killing each other for their very existence abhorrent. And what worse is that as such vicious competition is built into the structure of life on this planet. If we all proceeds to have children, then the only logical outcome is that these children will engage in competition or tribalism at some point. It is in their nature to suffer and do evil. How can I bring children into this world? How can I?
Man...let's deal in bible facts #1 God has given all people a free will to make any decisions they want. He at no point revokes this or appointed even bishops over that will... Jesus tells us in Matt 20:24-25 that in the world leaders lord it over and exercise authority over them he then tells them It shall not be this way among you! 2# Jesus Christ tells us to live as he lived and he was 100% child free. Was he selfish;No. Was he sinning; No. Did his life lack purpose and meaning; No. He had"all things pertaining to life and godliness" yet no kids... And we are told to imitate him. 3# Most of the apostles were childfree. #4 The apostle Paul encourages people to "be as I am" in regard to his "singleness" he had no wife...no kids and called singleness a gift from God. We are even told that it is difficult once you're married and in the family way to pursue the plans of God because you're goals switch to "pleasing your spouse" #5 It is written that we are not to judge one another in what we eat or drink, in regard to a new moon or Sabbath day. If we aren't supposed to judge someone else if they take an extra slice of cake or if they decide to keep traditional holidays....then we certainly shouldn't be judging them in their decision making about bringing a life into this world. God has purpose and value for us outside of traditional family roles. If everyone is bogged down by soccer practice, play dates, bake sales, working 3 jobs to pay for college...tell me who is going to give a cup of water to the thirsty, feed the hungry, clothe the homeless, visit someone in prison, help the elderly, go on mission trips and spread the good news of the gospel? It's time for a renewing of the mind and a shift in attitude in the church. It's time to celebrate those who have the gift of singleness from God or who are unencumbered by children and are able to help others in their community. It's time to rejoice in all the freedoms we all have in Christ Jesus and stop judging people and weighing them down with expectations that did not come from God; that's how Pharisees acted and has no place in the church.
I accept the spiritual conviction that life is not all about "me" or "us". However, that doesn't mean we HAVE to have kids. We can make our lives about other people and follow a spiritual path without procreating.
Pugster So true! I really hope that you do commit your life to serving others, the same way parents commit to their children. Difficult, but a worthy goal!
We have gone forth and multiplied.Mission accomplished. Greater population is a problem. Let’s feed those that are here. Or if there is a stigma attached to being childless, become a priest or religious.
The threat of global overpopulation has been debunked and proven wrong decade after decade. Western countries and some East Asian countries are going to start experiencing the harmful effects of population decline if you actually knew anything about the subject at all.
first of all..I'm child free not child less. And we are talking about a human..not a hair style. Children should only be brought into this world by people who want them. And how can man of God wish a child to be brought into this world by someone who doesn't want them???
You do realize there are 7.4 BILLION people on the planet right? That many people is not good for the harmony of the universe or however you worded it. Kids are super time consuming and expensive. It's not like modern day society makes it easier for parents. I'm still dealing with my college loans. I'm super happy in my life right now in my late twenties and I know for a fact that having a child would devastate my life because I would be poor, overworked, and exhausted with no chance to rest. So the way myself and many others see it... not having kids is good for myself and the rest of the planet.
Catholic Priests are called Father because they are indeed spiritual Fathers. Just as a father provides for his family and sacrifices his own well being for the greater good of the family, our Dear Priests provide us with the Bread of Life and offer forgiveness of our sins in confession. In confession a Priest Father might ask a simple penance from us, but behind the scenes sacrifices himself (through fasting, prayer) showing how spiritually close the relationship between a Priest and his parishioners is, just as it is with Father and Child. Priests are also single so that they can imitate the life of Christ as an unmarried person. It was only through the death and resurrection of this Celibate that humanity was redeemed and abundant everlasting life was won for us. Abundant life...with lots of people and children and babies. Jesus is the source of life and Priests imitate his example.
I wanted children, but didn't want to have one without a father present. God saw fit not to give me that privilege. I have to trust in his decision. There's no point beating myself up every time I see couples with children. I didn't want to have children out of wedlock either. It was a moral decision on my part.
I want to move out of my parents house and just live alone and free, but its hard to do this and still keep the living for the greater good, my neighbors, values and duties when I don't care. That's the greatest conflict for me.
> That's perfectly okay, many great inventors had no kids but contributed greatly to the humankind. Like who, give some examples, like many examples. >fear of losing personal freedom and comfort. Personal freedom is such a trifle thing. The more education a woman receives the less children she will have. If our society thought child bearing was important the US would promote it like in health care and affordable day care. Baron simply was selfish in his own, but selfish non the less
Then you should had never went to college, then you could afford a large family. There is nothing wrong with working as a janitor or made, working in a cafriteria, so you can provide for a family. Many low income workers has large families and they answered to the call of God to procreate and do without a college degree.
I'm 48 and child-free. I have a sweet and loyal cat and a niece I adore and I contribute to my community through volunteer work. Having kids of my own was not for me. My father never wanted children and believe me it showed growing up. Zero regrets!
So a person who doesn't like/can't afford kids should have them anyway?? What if the decision is based on the kinda life that kid is likely to have? What if major mental or physical health conditions run in your family? I would be more worried about the kid's quality of life, personally. I would have thought (or hoped) that most people's contribution to society was based on way more than having a bunch of kids. Having kids could even mean they contribute less - especially if their life & career goals are based on helping others.
Kids don’t cost as much as people think. A kid’s quality of life is not necessarily based on whether they are wearing the latest fashions or if they have an iPad or if they can watch Netflix every day. They will have a wonderful life if they are loved by kind parents and can enjoy the outdoors with their siblings. That costs nothing. I think that if someone really wanted to have children but decided it was unwise because of the possibility they might inherit a condition, they would rightly be devastated. And if someone chooses not to have children because the child’s quality of life would suffer because they think they themselves would make them suffer because they think they would be abusive to the child, well good for them. But are we supposed to congratulate them for realizing they are a terrible human being and unwilling to improve themselves. “I don’t want to have kids cause their life would be crap cause I’m a terrible person and I know I’d make them suffer. Instead of becoming a better person I’ll just keep being a terrible person and just deny them existence. Humanity beings have never had the expectation that life would be easy. But now we think everything should be easy, entertaining, and pleasurable. Way to go post rationalizing your selfish lifestyle choices. That is an evolutionary dead end. Survival of the fittest will ensure this strategy isn’t passed on to future generations. People who are forced into this situation of childlessness against their will wish they were able to have children. I sympathize with your tragic circumstances.
@@Quantum1008 Having kids doesn't make you a better person and secondly, parenting isn't for everyone. Misery loves company! Why every person with children are always telling others to have kids?!?!? Oh,no we don't!
Obviously, if someone has real medical concern for the future health and welfare of their potential children they may be justified in their decision to spare their children pain and suffering. Only they can decide that. But, to my mind, there are a few qualifications. First of all, the idea that a life of pain and suffering is not worth having is not a well founded thought. Imagine a grown human being in pain and suffering. No one would say that their pain and suffering is justification for them to cease to exist. For themselves, they value their own life despite the suffering, they cherish each additional minute of existence. And this is why murdering people is not justified just because they happen to be in pain. Neither is it necessarily the case that a child born into a life of suffering necessarily would desire that they had never been born. Ask one of them. Despite the pain, they value their own life and experience of living. Secondly, the majority of people are not faced with this decision because the average person is not burdened with such inheritable conditions. So while we can let such people deal with these heart-wrenching decisions in the best way they know how, it is isn't an excuse that the majority of people have to fall back on to post rationalize their personal preference not to have children. Again, if you happen to personally prefer not to procreate, then just say that. I would respect your honesty and no one should try to dissuade you of your personal preference. But poor excuses are poor excuses. Pointing out the logical fallacies and shortcomings in the typical post-rationalizations is perfectly legitimate. Just be honest and tell people that you don't want to have offspring because you simply prefer not to procreate.
@Burger Clown Thank you for the interesting response. I'm not at all concerned if an individual or a couple decide that not having offspring is their personal preference. I happen to think that it is an evolutionary dead end. But if that is someones preference then who am I to be concerned with their preferences. It would be as silly as being concerned that someone doesn't like chocolat or classic cars. No, I was merely pointing out the practical shortcomings and logical fallacies present in the average "excuses" people give for their preferences. You see, there is a difference. People's preferences are distinct from the excuses thy give to post-rationalize them. Even if their excuses are illogical, that doesn't mean that their personal preferences are not still their personal preferences. And those preferences are none of anyone's business. But the factual claims made by their poor excuses can and should be easily debunked. Let me ask you a question. What concern is it what words I write? Mind your own life. End of discussion. Oh, wait. No. Actually, I value the free discussion of ideas and the freedom of people to say and think what they want. As I said, people's personal preferences are their personal preferences. Who can complain with that? Unless you hate that people like me prefer to write answers on RU-vid. But it is my preference to write them. How is it in any way shape or form your concern what words I write? It is not. But it is your right to respond. Just tell me where I am factually wrong. Now we are having a conversation, a stimulating colloquy.
Burger Clown The whole comment is available on the RU-vid website. I checked it on multiple platforms. I said, “I just happen to think it is an evolutionary dead end.” Like Galapagos tortoises that refuse to mate. But whatever. I also wrote about the difference between preferences and facts. No one can argue with preferences. But statements made in defense of preferences can be discussed as to how logical they are.
I love that having children is „privat choice“ nowadays. I feel sad for all the women back in the days who felt like they had to have children because of their “tribe” 🙄
But I always wonder - selfish towards whom? Society? Am I obliged to have children? I think it’s more selfish to have children because you need something to fill you time with or that gives your life meaning.
RomyDandelion i look up to smart and beautiful women like you who live for themselves and don’t conform like zombies; enjoy your rich and funfilled life sis 💅
It’s ONLY a choice due to reliable contraception. People forget that the women of only 70 years ago lived under entirely different conditions. Perhaps that helped them grow as people, parents & adults faster than the perpetual adolescence of the Postmodern age.
You know they say that you should have kids! You could give birth to someone who cures cancer. With that mindset, cancer will never be cured in that situation because we keep telling people to have children- which will lead them to not have enough time to their studies. Do you know how much time and dedication goes into researching and creating medication? I'd rather do the unselfish thing of helping thousands of people vs what- 2 or 3 kids. I'd rather help create a better world for those alive now, and in the future, than do the selfish act of staying in a comfort zone to appease dogma or society says (to have kids, and other traditional roles) This is why we want to be child free, and why it's not selfish.
Two children is all We could budget,giving both a childhood were they could enjoy sports and the arts and later go on to college and university and help in the buying of a home. A lot of down the road thinking and decision making.
job market bad, If i go home early from work I will be fired. Married, and can't afford nanny care. Who will raise my child when my work hours are long?
+7lol2007 You are absolutely on target here. The same society that used to sell us the nuclear family model as the ideal now removes the possibility of safely raising children and maintaining solvency from many peoples who cant get 3 figure jobs. it used to be women fought to get out of the home and into the work place, but now they cant get back into their homes even if they wanted to because they just cant afford not to have two working parents, and when this is the case who will take care of the child?
LoOoL That's the role of the husband, to provide for the family, and that's how families were living traditionally. I know some families who live this way. They don't live luxuriously, but they manage. God bless!
Giving birth is no joke. It takes a toll on people mentally and physically even if there's no complications in the pregnancy. We need to stop criticizing and bullying people into a life changing decision that they don't even want. Is it really that hard to let people be happy on their own terms? Only people who genuinely want children should have them. Parenthood can have meaning attached to it but there's other people who find meaning elsewhere, like being devoted to a career, volunteering and traveling the world. Either way, both sides have their own calling and I don't believe one choice is better than the other
Hello Rose, I never heard a valid justification for bringing an innocent child into existence while it is 100% sure that the only garantees attached to that existence are suffering and death no matter how short lived that existence may be. Therefore in my vision choosing to have children of your own is not only a gamble but even a legalised capital crime inflicted on the newly to be born conscious living being who is unsolicited forced into this perverse life game.
@@KD-cg9iq Hi K D, I agree with you that the child could never consent to an existence that only the parents wanted but you can't stop people from having children, the only thing we can do is hope that the child was placed in a loving home, I'm aware that not everyone is fit to be a parent and I respect people who realize that they wouldn't be parent material and not people who would make terrible parents but have children anyway.
Hello again Rose, if you are referring to me as being no good parenting material I have to refute that. Whenever people want to get rid of their children they bring them to our place for parenting, I love having children around and they on their turn just adore us. The reason I certainly don't want to be responsible for the existence of an other living being is that every human being is born against his will and also has to die against his will. Imposing suffering and death upon offspring of your own to me is nothing else than a legalised and even promoted capital crime.
@@KD-cg9iq Hello K D, I'm also aware that people's reasons to live life without children are not all the same and I wasn't referring to you specifically when I said that, just that it might be one of the many reasons why someone doesn't want them. Again I agree with you that the child cannot consent to be in this world, every cradle is a grave
@@seastorm9548 hi there Rose ,well thank you for that wonderful frase "Every cradle is a grave" . I never heard it before and it says all, in return I provide you also with one, hopefully it's evenly valuable to you : Nobody knew suffering until the day they were born.
The mature way to tackle this issue is to accept that not all people are suited to parenthood. Easy. Rather than judge people who choose the childfree life, respect another's free will and focus on your own life. Forming judgements about others is not at all necessary btw.
my mother attempted suicide when I was 6. at the same time, my dad went off with another woman. I was abandoned by both parents, left alone to my own Accord at that age. it's a horrible world we live in. I'm catholic too. I don't wanna be a nun or get married or have kids. but I still love God. is that contradictory?
In the Catholic Church as long as sex is not involved it's fine. For them every act that shows affection is suspicious. Sex is always sinful. No sex no sin
Lucas Pytkowski I am rather sure God understands that given couple can not provide for every single children that is born if couple continues to have sex. He also knows what over population is. Moreover he understands that because we live in a fallen world not everyone is capable of wanting children. Marriage does not change this. If God says that working for him is better than marriage (even though marriage is not bad) because man's attention and time is devided I would argue that because children further devide man's attention it is not a bad thing to not have children inside marriage.
Lucas Pytkowski I agree. When God said be fruitful and fill the earth it would unreasonable to interpret it to mean overpopulate the earth. World is filled with humans. It's already done. I am not Catholic. I don't know what nomination I would belong to. I have never been a member of any church. I do know however that I would fall into charismatic category.
My career involves traveling the world providing medical care to those in disaster situations. I have no time or resources to have children. Should I give up my career, even though I love what I do and I am helping people and contributing to society and the human race?
Not necessarily. Consecrated life is a beautiful thing in the eyes of God. He's referring to couples - people living like they are married but not doing the thing that marriage is primarily for - having children.
Joel Peart, the Bible doesn't state anywhere that couples should have children by default, let alone that child-bearing is what marriage is for. The only instances we see that model being enforced is when social constructs kick in, often resulting in abuse (think Rachel and Hannah). Biblical marriage is EXCLUSIVELY about love (think of the relationship between Christ and the church). Child-bearing is optional.
Steve Phoenix Incorrect: “So God created mankind in his own image, in the image of God he created them; male and female he created them. God blessed them and said to them, “Be fruitful and increase in number; fill the earth and subdue it. Rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky and over every living creature that moves on the ground.”” Genesis 1:27-28 God’s first command to human beings was not only have children, but lots of them.
Some people are happy with having children, other people are happy not having children. Why should we judge people based on whats considered culturally normal and not what makes the individual person happy? let people make their own choices, as long as they dont hurt anybody else then whats the problem?
A selfish culture doesn't hurt anybody else, it hurts everybody else. What that means concretely is very hard to define. The classical prophets of the OT understood that indifference to selfishness encourages the selfish to rule unchallenged. "What makes me happy" is a great question but not at the omission or expense of the objective good.
I would be happy without kids, but my wife wants them do we're adopting. I won't bring new people into this world. There are more than enough humans already.
I wanted to adopt but my fiance says he doesn't want to raise "another man's sperm." Everytime the topic comes up he calls the hypothetical kid "it." But I sure as hell am not putting my body through a pregnancy so I guess we will just be childfree in general. So lucky you for both being on board with it 🥺
Thank you for adopting. My husband and I don’t plan on having kids, but if we ever changed our minds we would adopt. There are enough kids on this Earth already who don’t have a home.
Everyone suffers when a parent raises a child they don't want or isn't able to nurture. It is equally as selfish and unselfish as every parent out there who makes sacrifices to raise the child they chose to have.
My mom doesn’t admit it but I definitely know for a fact that she regrets having me especially at a young age. If she had to do it all over she’d definitely would have had me much later in life
@@an6893 I thought about it and even visited the monastery near me and it was all old men basically with one or two men in their 40s or 50s. So I'm going to be solitary either way most likely.
@@andrewpatton5114maybe not but I feel too much life experience is in the way. Many of us middle class suburban catholics were shipped off to colleges and took on student debt and then were uprooted and went to a city where we had little community. So when I was more unaware of the world at say 18-25 and more able to be a candidate, I wanted to have a normal life and family and wife. Then I learned that the family life wasn't possible and by then I had drifted too far away from participation in the church and became too secular. So now I cannot really be either a formal religious monk or priest and neither a husband or father
Although I may disagree with the premise of his arguments at times, I have come to enjoy and appreciate Bishop Barron's perspectives, intellectual prowess, and style Of presentation. To me, he really looks and sounds like an attorney. I mean no disrespect. Although it does seem that this topic as been reduced to a dualistic argument based on Old Testament biblical quotes, tribal initiation rites, and skewed morality, , I would love to see the good Bishop in an open discussion or friendly debate with likes of spiritual leaders, and teachers like father Richard Rohr, or Thomas Keating
Another issue with having children is that I see such an enormous percentage of women abandoned by the fathers of their children. The mothers are forced to both raise the kids and also support them financially, which are both full-time jobs. It makes having children seem like a gigantic liability.
Then the women shouldn't have gotten married from the beginning. I had divorced parents and they still managed to raise me well. Should they not have had me?
"Then what do you do when you are sexually aroused?" is such an important question! If priests are keenly aware of the details regarding the "do whatever we want" culture shouldn't they have no reservation enlightening us on the finer details of how a person sublimates their sexual urges? While it's only on my experience celibacy isn't possible for any adult, the objective caveat remains: a priest has a choice in their calling to celibacy, as a Catholic couple has a choice in raising a child.
Well the way I see it is I have one life here on this earth, even if I reincarnate I probably wouldn't remember, and if not having a kid makes me happy in this life I'm not going to have a kid and it's my right to choose. I'm not going to have kids just for the sake of pleasing everyone, who btw isn't going to help me raise that child.
Douglas Thomas Hayden He actually is right that there is a meaningful distinction between the two, but I wouldn’t say the Antinatalist position has much merit either. And I also don’t think most of these people are Antinatalists, I think they are mostly just childfree.
@@douglasthomashayden2566 antinatalism is the belief that it's immoral to have kids because you're creating a new person, bringing them into a miserable world against their will. Most childfree people are not of that opinion, it's simply a matter of "I don't want kids." So there is a big difference.
We have no children. Neither of us even likes children. But 8 years of Irish Catholic Nuns pretty much made sin the center of my thinking so this has given me a lot of turmoil. As a male, I can say I had no choice in the matter, but that isn't fair, or honest.
The irony of a catholic bishop railing people for choosing not to have children , you don’t even have children yourself hypocrite and you’ll never know the challenges that come with that . Choosing not to bring a child into a world of abstract suffering is the most noble choice a person can make , in all of these arguments never once does he stop to ask how would birthing a child into this world benefit the child itself ? ... it’s silly that in all of these probirth religious circles the life of the child itself is rarely considered , rather it’s all about what the parent should expect to get out of it ... bringing another human being into existence to experience needs , wants , desires , suffering , pains and needless death is not only the real selfishness , it is also sadistically evil . Some of us are actually childfree/Antinatalist because we don’t want our children to be subjected to a world of suffering that will end up with agonizing deaths ... NO WAY , you can keep your demiurgic “ be fruitful and multiply “ GARBAGE . Those of you choosing not to bring babies into this world in order to spare them from suffering and death , THANK YOU . you are the true saints .
