My issue with saying it's not 'Ok' to let yourself become financially dependent upon a man? Women place themselves into that position, and biologically prefer it... To blame this on the man, by trying to frame it as an attempt to assert dominant power over someone? Well... For one, that shows where his mind goes, but two... Ok, I'll actually go so far as to even agree with this statement, in order to steelman it. It is truthful btw, just lacking in the overall perspective, which I'll get to in a second. The primary problem with this, isn't that we shouldn't be in positions that allow us to assert dominant power over someone... Everyone has that, even the women... The real issue is enforcement of the need to 'Sheath the Sword' as it is put proverbially. Be the monster, but know how to keep it at bay. Be the Warrior in the Garden, not the Gardener in the War.... This is the sentiment that proves why he's wrong. Now... That said... Before I get into more psychologically, and in turn biologically, founded portion? Let me point out... If I go to Thailand and instead of trying to become a Dual citizen of my country and Thailand, I instead forfeit citizenship entirely of my old country... Can I just later on, come back and beg for forgiveness? NOPE! I have to start the same immigration process as everyone else at that point. If a woman intentionally places herself into the position of being financially dependent upon a rich man, and then decides to leave him... She gets alimony... Men become dependent upon the emotional sponge that their wife is, via the connection of their bond, and without it they are far more broken than women are when that bond is torn apart. Women become dependent upon the provisional sponge that their husband is, via the connection of their bond, and without it they are far more broken than men are when that bond is torn apart. Saying that one side shouldn't become dependent on the other, but that a balance somewhere in between should be found? Ya, that I can accept... To just flat state that women don't need no man though? Fuck that shit... Yes they do, and men need women too...
One of the main answers to this question was answered in your podcast with Mary Harrington, Chris. Mary told us she almost died giving birth to her daughter. A lot of women don't want kids because they are very scared of what that physically entails for them - and rightly so. These risks can be fatal, or with awful short- and long-term effects on the body and mind. In the old days, unless a woman joined a Nunnery, she would have no choice - marriage meant pregnancy, and pregnancy meant life-threatening risk. Nowadays, contraception has given women a choice - and what women are choosing now, is probably what their female ancestors would have also chosen too, given the chance.
Why does everyone assume the opposite of having a family is prioritizing money, sex, and drugs. As if there’s no other way to live a fulfilled life. There’s so much room in between that will make many of you more satisfied then having a traditional fam. Nobody ever considers how they can build a meaningful relationship with the world outside they typical path
The problem is, can't have EVERYBODY do that. And it's quite possible to do both. It's better then having your whole culture and nation go extinct. Genetic preservation and diffusion is the greatest accomplishment.
The dichotomy is a Western society problem, it seems to me. A woman who chooses to be child free or spouse-less is often seen, or even expected, as the breadwinner of the family (at least in Southeast Asia that seems to be the case), or she's entering contemplative spiritual life. So no one bats an eye (in my community, this is the case.) on unmarried woman who will be thought of as a "spinster aunt". She's not seen as prioritizing sex, money, drugs. I would say there's a different expectation for men where I'm from. Like, sure, he is expected less to be serious about life but everyone would raise an eyebrow if he reaches 35 and he is still single and childless- something like hushed questions about his sexuality or he's onto something like still enjoying a carefree life. You are right in saying there is so much room in between. And it really is about what brings the individual a level of contentment in life. I think it really boils down to calming our nerves and seeing that people who choose to be childless, whether men or women, do so exercising their right to choose in a free society.
@@nicholasphelps3872 Not everybody will. I say let people who don't want children stop. That way, the "unwilling parent" genes can go extinct, and in a few generations, lead to fewer children who end up treated badly.
Because they are narrow-minded, one-dimensional, and self aggrandized which hinders their ability to think beyond their biases towards ppl who don’t want to emulate their basic lifestyles. These people are truly pathetic.,
Hey get out of here with that logical thinking. I'm being a smart a** by the way, It's actually refreshing to see someone else using logic rather than their animal emotions to respond.
They're wondering whether they'll have enough future 18 year olds to play Peter Pan with. Less babies born means fewer ladies and fewer little idiots to take advantage of and pump into.
That 50 year old childfree woman these two dudes are slating sounds like a real badass, and as far as I'm concerned if she wants to fly to Paris for a croissant she gets to, because she already has a much smaller environmental footprint for not having children.
You sure? How did you calculate? Did you compare the amount of fuel burned in all her travels during her entire life to the amount of CO2 made by feeding a new human? Maybe just stop travelling for stupid reasons. The world population will eventually stagnate and go down. Then a huge number of old people who travelled to Paris will be sitting on the necks of a tiny number of people capable of working. Really your way of thinking has nothing to do with ecology, nor with the demographic reality the world is facing
I got a vasectomy when I was in my mid 20s. Don’t regret it yet ! I remember feeling that I didn’t want children when I was 11-12. That feeling never went away.
Same here. I found babies to be the most annoying creatures on earth when I was a kid. I've been married happily for thirty-six years and we don't regret not having kids at all. We chose to travel instead and go on adventures.
Who knows but both of them are Catering to women audience and not being completely honest about this topic. The entire Industrialized world that has been infested with Feminism is experienced a huge decline in birthrate. It is getting so bad that there will be major consequences in population collapse. At this Rate population of the planet will probably be half what it is now in about 100 years. The countries that are not strong in feminism are not having this problem. Japan is already experiencing death of cities.
Modern women are making more conscious decisons regarding motherhood, but its so out of touch to just avoid the fact that we are in a cost of living crisis. I have friends that would love to have children but realise they cant provide given the current state of the economy.
My grandparents both had 5 kids. It wasn't that big a deal, even when my grandmother divorced because he was an abusive alcoholic nobody ever said anything good about. You'd starve now under those conditions.
Alot of women grew up seeing mothers either stuck in abusive relationship and financially dependent or stay at home mothers in their 40s that got left for another woman and have NO work experience or qualifications having to start from scratch. So most women are getting careers as a safety net not to be 'trendy working single woman, that want to sleep around'
Long term commitments are so necessary to raise a child. The reality of divorce statistics and single parenthood in general is one of the major reasons for why women are choosing not to have children. It’s not the flighty freedom and travel and croissants in Paris reasons that men think. The women I know that are single parents with full time jobs lead wretched lives. They are completely overwhelmed. And young girls from these homes are opting out of motherhood and don’t change their minds as adults. The risk is just too high.
I love this conversation. It was very enlightening. Honestly straight men wondering why women don't want to have children is just really strange to me. I say men and women who chose not to procreate are being responsible. Millions of people want to have kids, but millions of people don't. Idk why it's such a tragedy for some people who probably would never travel the world, or give on the ground assistance to children who are actually in need.
It is a personal tragedy for some. How come it's hard for you to understand that different people have different priorities in life. Imagine, some people feel ok about not traveling too much. But feel true grief if they never hold a baby. It's just the instinct kicking in for a lot of people. And this instinct is the strongest one of all instincts in living beings
It didn’t seem like they are complaining? They are just talking about it and bringing up points and adding some of their own personal experience to it as well which people do when they are talking about a topic. I’m genuinely curious how they are complaining about it?
"Complaining", lol sounds like you are projecting. I'm guessing you are one of those women that decided you will never have kids. Tell me, how does it feel seeing all your friends having a family and living a happy life? while the most reliable companion you will ever have is your 12th cat who is not even born yet?
@@alannalc Not true, but nice try. Your dilutions can keep you happy enough with some pharmaceutical intervention, I'm sure. Congratulations, you're extinct!
@@sissy-_-fnyc wow, where did that come from? She makes a valid point. Do you know how many grandparents are dropped off at Nursing homes and just forgotten about? Not even a visit? It's pretty common. I would rather not have a kid than have that.
Matt Hussey nails it. Unfair to judge women to seek careers when the worst situations in which I have seen women are when they are financially dependent on abusive men.
Absolutely! I come from a low socio-economic background and watched my peers’ families break down due to domestic violence, infidelity, addiction and more. Kids are left traumatised and in poverty. The cycle then repeats.
@@xfreeman86You clearly haven’t heard of a narcissist. Romantically speaking, they don’t reveal their true colors to their spouses until after the spouses say, “I do.”
I think a lot of women are choosing not to have children because they were raised by single moms and saw how hard it was. Even the most loving relationships, 50% of married couples going by statistics split up, so there’s a rationale fear that if you have a baby, there’s a good chance you’ll be raising that kid alone
Yes, coming from a broken family is a large predictor whether you want to have a family on your own. It's a very clear correlation. The majority of people of my generation that I met in my life came from a broken family themselves. It has become the norm, so of course you will see the results downstream.
I never thought about it like this. It seems like some truth in it. My mom was a single parent raising 4 kids from my abusive dad. I always said from the time I was in 6th grade that I want no kids or get married. I don't think that is normal for a middle school child to confidently proclaim
I think you hit the nail on the head. It’s the entire nuclear family that’s been devalued. I wouldn’t want to raise children without my husband. That thought alone has gotten me through some hard times in our marriage 😂.
For women you’re damned if you do or don’t. If you start young you’re too broke society blames you for needing public assistance. If you wait until you have a career, adequate finances; your older and have increased risk of pregnancy complications. Then ppl blame you for putting your career first. It doesn’t matter whether you’re married or not the narrative never changes when choosing to be a mom. 🙄
This is so true. Young moms are seen as immature and incapable, while older moms are seen as being obsessed with their careers. It’s as if everyone expects every woman to have a child at the same age.
Exactly why some ppl understand it’s selfishness covered up as “oh I don’t want kids because I wouldn’t be a good parent or this or that.” Its most reasons are selfish. Some reasons are valid but this is selfish. At least you’re honest.
I never wanted kids and never had them. My male partner and I had great jobs in high tech, paid off the house, retired early, and are best friends and have a great sex life. You're not any more selfish than people who want and have kids. Both of you are doing what you want to do. This is what life should be about. It shouldn't be about making yourself miserable. I can't stand kids and I knew it. otoh: My boyfriend (of 20 years) and I do a lot of volunteer work in several areas, one is animal rescue. We put a lot of time, work, and love into it. If people say we are selfish, we laugh at it because it is such a lie.
@@dedesunbeam9361"You're not any more selfish who want and have kids." - Well said. The selfishness argument always baffles me. People who want children never stop to consider that having children could also be considered selfish.
@@cricketylife8742 It's extremely selfish. Just look at the huge WASTE w diapers and they don't care about using tons of plastic in juice boxes and such, either...just to start. Second, most people's kids aren't going to release any new brilliance on the world, either.
Motherhood is extremely hard and expensive. What if my relationship/marriage breaks down? That’s me and my kids in poverty. Single motherhood is like nothing else. I saw my mum do it and she’s got little in retirement because she couldn’t work as much. She’ll have a tough time retiring. I’ll take care of her no matter what because that woman gave everything. Why would you want a life full of struggle for your sister, Aunt, cousin, daughter? Leave these women ALONE.
You nailed it. The compensation package for motherhood ain't there for how much your contribute. The government could consider paying women but things have to go to crap first before they improve.
Money is everything after all. Yay money give me more when I'm old and grey I'll look at my fat bank account and thank money for wonderful and purposeful life. Money will visit you on X-Mas day and tell you it loves you and so will all your bankers... like they did in Scrooge! Interesting too that only women who've had children will have bodies that break down when their old? Your right about hard it is too... One can only imagine how a woman who lived 100 years ago managed to do it without Television, iPhones and uber eats? Don't think me to harsh. I'm trying to show you perspective. Life was hard, is hard and always will be. You make your own strength...or you will have none!
Why is it always about ''women not having children''? It takes two to tango, always has. Everyone does, or should do, exactly what they want and can, given the conditions.
@@leedlbagginshield8492 It might have something to do with the idea that men are cars and women are gas stations. Thus, cars get angry when gas stations become less available, while if fewer cars are using gas stations, then there is plenty more for the cars who do use them. Still, it is very inconsiderate to get mad at someone for not wanting to do something, especially when that something will only make them miserable. And also, I know that the analogy I used is not quite accurate, but I could not come up with a better one. Please feel free to find a more suitable analogy if you want.
Because they believe that women have a natural drive to want children that is stronger than that of men. And if they don't satisfy that drive they will end up miserable.
Women are becoming smart and I like the change in the trend. If you are going to have kids it should be with the intention of having a complete family permanently (marriage) and not ending up a single mother. Both men and women need to choose partners who are serious about having a family and having good values.
You do realize women initiate 80% of divorces right? You do realize women with degrees initiate 90% of the divorces? Many times they do it out of boredom. They get tired of the marriage because it involves work. Not only that they often take Half of the mans savings and possessions and collect alimony and child support and keep the house. They basically collect all the money but none of the obligations of having a husband. They get a sweet deal for getting divorced. Even if the woman has no children she still takes all of his stuff.
I wouldn't bring children into this world. I was just watching a video about kids born with schizophrenia, bipolar, and other conditions and it was horrifying. You never know what misery they'll run into even if you're the best parent.
I agree with all but the marriage and having to have a partner/father permanently in the situation. Nothing is permanent. Male or female, have a child IF you are taking 100% responsibility for anything that comes along with that child. Your partner/the father may die.
@@kelleemerson9510 I agree that death can stop something being permanent. However, we live in a world that is so evil that partners will even kill their spouse in order to get out of the marriage agreement. For sure if they die of natural causes then the partner who remains should be allowed to move on.
After becoming a mother it’s extremely exhausting to be completely financial independent and a mom. That’s why we need better relationships , interdependence is necessary in parenthood.
But most will forget to discuss the point of better relationships. If you treat women as shit which many guys do online and inside homes, then why in the world women want to be around you? Why can't men understand this at all! When women were made to become housewives, why did they treat them so badly? In other parts of the World, most women are stay-at-home wives, if men are so appreciative of families, women and motherhood, why are not they good to them? If mothers are so worthy then why do men make fun of their pregnant wives and their bodies post martem? Why do they subject their wives to domestic violence? And then justify it as well. Truly, if these same men had to become wives to cruel husbands, they would have opted out of this a long time ago.
Interdependence doesn’t mean a husband/man/father - we need other arrangements and structures to be able to have real support networks to raise children. Some women who are single mothers are experimenting with teaming up to raise kids together- same household and sharing the responsibility/care. It seems to be working. I think we need more of that bc we simply cannot be delusional to think that men will change, they won’t, so for women who really want kids I would encourage to think about alternative options. Money is also another big issue here: if a woman has money enough to have a paid support network she doesn’t need a man at all. In fact in many cases men are just extra burdens.
@@Vnm2207 I like how it alway's comes back to men at fault.. sorry dear but you opened your legs. I really hope women stop having babies altogether. Enjoy your cat's. Because your concept of 'support network' is.. Someone else has to go work to fund your lazy entitled life. Try contributing for a change. ME ME ME
@@rainasajid6678interesting point, just realise though that you women are no better at all. Vilifying men, blaming men for YOUR choices in life. Stop being man-haters.
You know what’s also funny? A lot of men don’t want kids but they want sex… so they’re gonna jump on the bandwagon for women to settle down and have kids so these guys have a chance to have sex!
If you want kids..have them! if you don’t then don’t.. there’s so much commentary on this topic right now but people are waaaay too emotional about it. The only people that should be having children are those willing and able to RAISE them. As for the rest, it’s your life, live it in a way that is fulfilling to you
As long as those people who don’t have kids expect those of us who put the DECADES of time and effort into raising well adjusted kids to then expect our kids to care for them when their old. There is a social contract that we all have with our community to pass along to the next generation. When people who don’t have kids , and just live for themselves; but then rely on the state and the care of those now grown kids that’s an issue. Parents who raise kids well; have a much greater chance of having care and support when their older. Those Childless couples are going to be in for a rude awakening when they are truly alone in their twilight years.
@@BENR8108 as an ex nurse I can assure you that even those WITH kids will be looked after by someone elses kids... many are chucked into nursing homes as soon as it all becomes too much trouble to look after old mum and dad....
@@BENR8108 The social contract is fulfilled by paying my taxes and developing stuff that makes all your lives easier in the long run. If your sole reason to have children is to be nurtured when you're an old fart, then you should not have children either.
@@lynnecartwright3976 not of there is not enough people to watch them…. Population decline is going limit services across the modern economy; and it’s going to force families who can’t afford rising costs to ship mom and dad to a nursing home instead to keep them home with them. I don’t think you fully appreciate how many people are going to be dying over the next 30 years, and that we don’t have the volume of kids to replace them. Our young adults now aren’t coupling and have kids… 50% of men DONT want to have a relationship at all. Most men from 18-30 haven’t had sex in a year. Childless women are going to be a majority within 20 years if trends continue… But hey, those without kids have a guarantee to die alone, those of us with kids (if we raise them well) have a greater chance being cared for and surrounded by our loved ones. So no chance (childless people) or some chance (those of us with kids). I know my choice..
It’s because men shamed women for being single mothers. Called them “used cars” and things like that. Half of marriages end in divorce, and women don’t want to be seen as used cars, so now women just don’t want kids.
It’s wrong to label single mothers in such a derogatory manner. Conversely, it is valid, even understandable, why many men would not to want to get involved with a woman who has that baggage. Especially if there’s multiple dads in the picture. For that reason, single women will always be preferable to men than single mothers. Now if the kids’ dad is 100% absent, men would be more inclined to step in. It’s the way things are and always will be
That's true. However, name an endeavor an individual human can do that will fill that void? Hard to come up with the exact THING other than transcending oneself over time and space by having biological offspring, well that's called human nature. You are not wrong that there are things that can replace having a family, but most of these things aren't accessible to an average person. It's false equivalency for an average person to say having a career or whatever else is a full replacement of having a family -- most people don't have any kind of career, they have an average job that is neither interesting nor fulfilling.
We are here basically to reproduce. There is nothing more natural than that. Filling the void with a stupid job where your around a load of fake people that will replace you as soon as your no longer useful or someone is better that's not very fulfilling
Look, women are judged and called selfish and future cat ladies if they don't want kids. However, mothers also face judgment and are called egotistical for the following: - If they exercise during pregnancy because some irrational people think that might hurt the fetus; - If they choose C-section; - If they can't or don't want to breastfeed; - If they hold their babies too much or whenever babies cry/If they don't hold their babies enough of whenever they cry; - If they go back to work too fast/If they're stay-at-home moms and choose not to go back into the workforce; - If they don't give enough attention and love to their partners during the first months/years of the baby's life; Let's not forget that choosing motherhood is a sacrifice right off the bat, one that men will never have to endure: - Having to avoid certain foods during the entire pregnancy and breastfeeding; - Not being able to drink alcohol, energy drinks, or anything remotely damaging to the baby; - Not being able to take most pills for the pain; - Being constantly tired and unable to do much for nine months; - Being nauseous, having your bones move, and your skin stretch; - Having to do multiple blood tests, ultrasounds, and vaginal exams, while men barely have the courage to go to prostate screening; - Having a fetus and its development depends entirely on a woman, meaning the fetus absorbs minerals from the mother to build its bones and joints. If the mother doesn't have enough, calcium from the mother's bones is automatically secreted, sometimes leading to depletion or osteoporosis. - Having to give birth, and there's no good option for the mother. If she chooses vaginal delivery, she'll be in extreme pain, and the doctors will likely cut her perineum. If she chooses a C-section, that's major surgery, and the recovery will take weeks. - Potentially struggling with postpartum depression. There's so much more, but I'll stop here.
I really don't think two men could truly fathom the intricacies of why a woman would not want children, it's a lot more than reading statistics and trying to guess what women think. I'm in my mid 30s and don't have kids and I know at least 20 other women the same age and older who don't either. The few people I know with kids sadly seem miserable/regretful and alot have turned to alcohol to cope with the pressure of raising their kids in todays world. I'm undecided personally, but from conversations I do know that some of the reasons surrounding women not wanting kids at all or being undecided are: - How much money it actually takes to raise a child nowadays - Lack of quality men to have kids with or that want kids themselves - Stress over how a child will impact their already fragile mental health (most with anxiety issues or coming from family & financial traumas) - Fear of loosing their identity and then subsequently their sanity. - Not liking the world we live in, therefore not wanting to bring a child into it. There is also a whole childfree movement on social media where people are being advised by those with children not to do it, because they themselves are suicidal. There's an anonymous facebook group where women say they love their kids but hate motherhood and make a clear distinction between the two. Its actually really sad what they go through if you read it, and no matter what men may think, their roles as fathers NEVER amount to the level of physical and emotional labour a woman signs up for when she gets pregnant and has a baby, so I think this is a topic best handled with care on all ends.
You complain about a lack of men wanting go be fathers and then say in the same sentence fathers will never be as meaningful as mothers, can you really blame men for not wanting to be fathers? As a man I don't want children or to be married because men are treated like trash and considered unimportant. You are part of the problem.
Let’s not ignore the fact that there are many mothers who regretted having kids or at least would have chosen differently if they could go back in time. It’s just not as socially acceptable to admit, so the data on it is much harder to capture.
Yes, I don't know if it's menopause or what but I feel detached from my 28 yr old son. I honestly hated being pregnant and raising him by myself. Those were dark days but I felt pressured to have at least one bcs my late mother guilt trip me. She was one miserable woman and so was my late stepmother. I tell my son to be child free and he'll thank me someday. It makes me sick when I meet those women with 2 or more children and are just miserable. And what's worst is that they all tell the world how great it is to be a mother. Cheers😊
Men dont have to go through painful pregnancy and labour pains. Just seed the sperms and just done. After that, all burdens go to mothers. But....if men are willing to share household chores tasks, including cooking, cleaning up windows, floors, furnitures, laundry, etc etc, it will help most women in marriage. The time has change, women nowadays are willing to share the burden of earning money in the house. Share half:half of all burdens in marriage, take care of kids TOGETHER (like, men, you should learn to bathe your kids and change diapers and such). Then many women will be eager more to participate in marriage. I can work up all household tasks and such but thinking abt "slavery" type of wife works, losing sleep ALONE to take care of kids is kinda scare me. Not to mention the higher chance possibilities for men to cheat, no ring can prevent this thing not to happen, while women already sacrified their bodies to get destroyed in pregnancy and labour, that is the most horrible nightmare no woman wants to experience. Please listen to this and be considerate. Its hard to find a man to look at us as a humanbeing - not a commodity, not as a thing 🥺🥺
Look it’s very simple, no employment , no housing, no money, social issues that won’t improve in our lifetimes, lack of quality men, the pain involved during the entire process, health reasons, mental health reasons, lack of social structure. Zero incentive
It’s probably what you were taught. Women by and large go with the herd. They used to be expected to be mothers so they were now they’re told they shouldn’t so they don’t.
People are starting to wake up. Having kids sucks and there are absolutely NO tangible benefits. They are like very expensive long term pets. Sorry to be so real about it but we should be able to speak honestly about this without getting emotional.
It’s definitely a choice that involves sacrificing certain things. Kids aren’t pets though, that’s completely off base; only someone who doesn’t have kids , and really knows nothing about kids would say that.
What i dont understand is, why are all these men so pressed about woman not wanting marriage and kids? Why are they talking about what woman want to do with their lives and these are woman they dont even know. Why dont they talk about men that dont want children and let us be
As a guy who thought he wanted to have kids, I can understand why anyone in general wouldn’t want to have kids. Especially nowadays, people are barely getting by. I really so think the first question you should be asking is can you afford having a kid. Second question should be, will you have time to properly raise a kid? Third question, are you psychologically/emotionally ready to have a kid?
You are one of the millions who chose not to have children to balance the environmental, social, impact that overpopulation is having. The world is becoming more unsustainable by the day, social economic issues impact our mental and health, which will impact the lives of children. Imagine bringing innocent babies to a world of suffering and bleakness as overpopulation is going to lead to due to rising competition for food, jobs, and housing and then risk of war and environmental destruction. Do not blame yourself. You are having an impact to future generations who may or may not see the same world that we saw.
You're posing the RIGHT questions. The only caveat I'd raise is to CHANGE THE ORDER of your questions: the FIRST question should be "Are you psychologicaly/emotionally ready to raise a child?"--and if ntot GET THERAPY
@user-cz5lj2vx1f Actually the first question should be do you want kids ? For some people the answer no is easy and they don't even have to think about the other questions. For others the answer is yes or I am not sure.... then in that case they should continue with the other questions and realize that they may start working on themselves first....financial, emotional...to be ready when the time is right for them.
no matter the good intentions, two men sitting there talking about why women dont want childre never really ceases to amuse me... does it ever ocurr to these male podcasters to talk to women about this issue?
@@jayc342009Bitter? Were you looking in the mirror when you wrote that?? I'm a cat lady and proud of it. I can do what I want whenever I want. That includes sex.
"You have to be a pretty strong person to go, 'I don't think that's the answer'" That hit me super hard. I think most people are led to believe to do what society expects them to do. It takes guts and a strong will to say I don't want to do this and I want to carve my own path.
Having children even if it’s just one or two, will be paving the way for your future generation. But there are some people who just shouldn’t have kids, cuz they themselves are just nuts
Right and that’s why I don’t vote democrat anymore even though they control all the messaging , from university to entertainment. And their message of saying your on the right side of history and you are a good person as long as you do what they say is right. And if not you are evil. But I combat this propaganda being actually informed and strong enough in my principals,Even when they may not benefit me. I know that they are no longer a liberal party, they are closer to authoritarian facist then the tolerance they say they stand for. I’ll stand for women because these supposed feminist won’t. I stand for equality for all not equity by any means necessary. And I refuse to be racist to minorities when they don’t have the same views as me. And if you haven’t had this realization yet , you should especially if you’re an American women being erased by the left.
It gets easier if you persevere. A bunch of my friends are all players pretty much but I've always been adamant that I want a woman for life and have kids with her. At first they would try to sway me away from such foolishness and hey, the dating market is a tough one and one has to, to quote Chris, cycle through multiple people before you find a person who actually shares your values, so I get their skepticism but eventually they have come to accept it and some even start to aspire to something similar because the endless swipe/party/sex routine gets boring and makes you jaded. Granted, there is a long way to go for people in this state of mind since the brainwashing is so pervasive. Thinking about this reminded me of a quote by Matthew Mcconaughey in the movie Contact where he, as a person of cloth and an book author, argued that science and technology does not make us happy, that we fill our lives with stuff and, even though we are more connectable than ever before, we feel more alone as well. And this was in 1997. His argument was that it is faith in God that is the key but I think modern society has deducted that it is not, in fact. That being said, purpose still is at the top of Maslow's hierarchy of needs and, since a lot of us have our basic needs met, this is the top priority for our generation. If you've ever had a small person look up at you with those beady eyes and complete trust in you, you will understand that there likely isn't anything more purposeful than being true to the image the child sees in you.
@@autumxxleaves4186 I have no hate towards ppl who won’t have kids. I’m telling you that there are people who shouldn’t have kids as they lack the maturity to help a kid grow eg Narcissists, physically abusive parents, etc
This is so hilarious! You got a man to interview to explain why so women are not having children? That in itself should give you a clue as to why woman wouldn't want to have your child. You aren't even bothering to ask a woman. 🤣🤣🤣
I’m childfree by choice and happily married for 16 years and no I’m not SAD and MISERABLE …please stop deciding for me. to all the trad wives good on you, respect your choice. CHOICE CHOICE CHOICE CHOICE CHOICE
Childfree man here. Any misery in my life isn't due to lack of children. I have enough to deal with aside from an imaginary child I think some like to project their fears because they're jealous of the freedom we have as childfree ppl
I don’t think society even recognizes childfree married and happy couples . Like i don’t feel like there’s an established community yet. Like im still struggling to find other married child free couples to be friends with in my area. It feels like its in a new concept stage that’s just now starting to get popular.
@@metapixusion Interesting there too because a lot of people automatically couple marriage with children. So people ask "Why get married if you don't want kids?" Because I fricking wanted to lol
How many kids does Chris have? With all these conversation on fertility rate and him being around 35, hopefully he has children because nothing is more utterly useless than a man talking about fertility rate so much, and who has the means and status to have a family, not to have any of it.
Well in his defence, I would say that people around that age are having huge difficulties to find a good partner, costs are super expensive from nurseries, flats, to many other stuff, and also it seems that media and politicians are promoting to not have kids as a solution to the excess of population in the world. I've had a baby girl recently, and I am very lucky because I found an amazing woman which has been kind of a miracle, not just to meet her but also to have a baby with her, cause she had fertility issues. Most of my friends +30 don't have kids nor plan to have them, my point is that is kind of one of the conversations of our time, and one of the biggest issues, so if he doesn't have kids probably is because he has not found a good woman to have them, or for whatever reason, but that doesn't make him less important to talk about it, because he has a channel that can give voice to people that has a better knowledge to talk about this topic.
Not really a fair point though, some people simply don’t want kids and he accepts that, you can be concerned about the fertility issue and people who want kids not having them without wanting them yourself.
As a happily married child free women in her mid-thirties, all I have heard in my life is how difficult it is having children, how my career will take a financial hit it will never recover from and the extra unpaid labour I will take on due to the gender mental load gap will leave me statistically more stressed and unhappy. I also live in a major city where most people I know cannot afford to move into their own place, a cost of living crisis in the UK and the climate crisis where I am not sure what sort of future these hypothetical children will grow up in. Those I know who have had children really struggle financially to pay for child care when they do go back to work. With all of this, are we really surprised that more women are opting out? There is so much more to it than women just looking to go to Paris and eat pastries.
Assuming your premise is right (which I completely disagree with) that women need this much financial security to even start thinking about having children, now, what are you going to do with all that wealth by yourself? How tasty is that Michelin 3 star meal lasting a few long hours when you eat alone? How joyful is that private jet ride when you ride by yourself? How exciting is it to confront your own purposefully chosen biological dead end every single day for the rest of the few decades of your life? By statistics you will likely outlive your husband by one decade or more, so yeah... What a well lived life that is. I applaud your bravery.
@@YummyFoodOnlyPlz keep in mind , a lot of people have first family’s and second family’s blended .. most Men do not get sole custody, and they have to pay child support. Most men I knew could not afford to have anymore children , because of child support , but .. if they got with a women with kids getting child support from another man , well they can make it work. It’s been like this for years now at least 20yrs
I used to think that if I didn't want to have children, that I would adopt, but the older I got, the more I realized that that didn't make sense either. To me, if I'm not wanting to mother my own biological child, why would I want to mother someone else's? It's a huge risk... It's just like going to the pound and picking out a dog - it's either going to be your best friend or it's going to be a nightmare, so it's a total toss-up that you are saddled with for the rest of your life. I have a friend who adopted and luckily he was rich because that kid ended up needing over $500,000 in therapy and it still never fixed what was wrong with him. The kid was nuts. 🤷♀️
@@ladykd2355 you don't know anything about dogs, huh? I've never had a bad dog. Had dogs around over half a century. Lots of dogs at the pound are purebred, btw. I'll pick a dog over a kid ANY day.
People most people don’t want to raise someone else’s kid. Why are there children in the foster care system in the first place??? That’s the real question.
Women are seeing the lack of help they get when most of them have children and realize that they cannot afford the sacrifice it takes to raise children if you are not wealthy.
@@db6881 ...no...affordability is not a woman's problem. We are talking about people who DON'T have children because its unaffordable. Men also have that problem.
@@jayc342009 Fact of the matter is the person in the equation who is more likely to walk/run out completely is the man. Which has been proven decade after decade generation after generation.
That would be a consequence of atomized nuclear families. Men in the past could work and do less household work because multigenerational families and community helped raise kids. There is no village anymore. Everyone wants to do whatever they want to and it’s not helping each other out
And even if a woman does want to be single and wild let her be. Men are allowed to be 40+ living a bachelor lifestyle blowing there money on sex work but then woman aren’t allowed to do the same thing ? So backwards
Blaming women is shitty. When I was dating it took a long time to find a guy who had the same values as me when it came to raising children. I knew I didn't want to work full-time when my kids were small. But most of the men I met wanted two incomes. I found my guy, but I was 29.
Childfree male here. I knew when I was a kid myself that I didn't want to be a parent, and have also endured societal pressure, stigma and endless condescension from my peers who all told me "you'll change your mind". Well, I didn't, and haven't, and still do not regret it. My partner and I are happy, fulfilled and live our lives to the absolute max, ALL whilst being the best possible uncle and aunty to our amazing little nephews. I understand that the pressures of women are enormous and it makes me mad and sad at the same time. For a long time I was extremely confrontational about it. I understand that this was the best way at the time for me to just shut people up. As I get older I have the power of reason and can happily, and do, talk about it freely without gear of being judged.
same! i grew up in a home where money was always tight. i'm not a millionaire, but my wife and i earn enough to live comfortably. if we had kids (whom neither of us want), i would go back to that situation where money is tight, and i don't ever want to feel that way ever again. and the cost of living gets more expensive everyday. no kids for me; i'm good.
Women are not having kids because lots of us are from single parent households and growing up we did not wanted to be a single parent as we know how difficult it’s. It’s just been hard finding a partner that we feel could be a great partner or parent. I know lots of people are saying “HAVE KIDS” but come on do you want bunch a women just getting pregnant with out a good partner?
Because you modern western women have absurdly unrealistic expectations with regard to men. We have average and in many cases even well below average women out here saying they “won’t settle” for anything less than a top 1% man. It’s just flatly delusional. Then they hit the wall in their 30’s, and the average men they turned their noses up at in their 20’s are either already taken or aren’t interested, because those guys who do want a family don’t want a ran through, past-her-prime woman whose fertile years are in the past, and who spent her best years at the club, getting her back blown out by Chad and Tyrone.
There are plenty of good partners. A recent survey said 63% of men are single right now. If that's your excuse then maybe you're expectations just don't match with reality.
@@djangomarine6658 just because 63% of men are single, doesn’t mean that they will be good partners. Most men don’t even have basic lifeskills (like cooking, cleaning, personal hygiene, laundry). Getting with these men means more work and drama (STDs and so on) for the woman.
I think all women respect motherhood. You pick the most extreme examples of woman who have chosen to be childfree. It's a tough job. I've never encountered a woman who bashed another woman for having children UNLESS the circumstances under which they are bringing the child into world aren't favorable for the child. If you want to know why women don't want kids ask a woman. It's rich that these two men are speculating on this subject. Woman arent having kids because they don't want to. Most end up being single parents- hardest life EVER! It is financially prohibitive to have children. The world is a literal cesspool- dirty air, dirty soil, and dirty water. Most of us have plastic in our bodies. Climate change-- it's real and generations to come will suffer because of it. Countries spend billions on war but have no resources for parents, like childcare, safe schools and laws and a society that protect children from mass shootings and child preditors. There are so many reasons why women aren't having children. Motherhood is a thankless job that the world is content to watch women struggle alone while doing it. Do you need more reasons? I have plenty. Woman support women who have children. Now it's time to support those who chose not to.
Women have so much opportunity now I think we weigh up what kind of life we want and the outcome is kids will simply hinder my progress and trap me. Me and my partner love our independence to live for ourselves and pursue our passions. A child takes your out of the workforce and leaves you vulnerable where you have to rely on a man, which stops us being 50/50, and then if the relationship ends we are seriously in trouble financially and ever reaching any dream
As a 24 year old living in Toronto I think what wasn't mentioned is the "economical state" of our current society. Most Gen Z and millenials are in thousands of dollar in education debt. In Toronto it's impossible to buy a house unless you're making six figures. I personally want kids but don't want to bring a child into this world when I know that I need to create more stability in my life first. when it comes to bringing a life into the world, it's better to have more educated and informed decisions because it's one of the (if not the) most important action anyone makes in their life
People got married much younger decades ago. They weren't rich. They were broke but they figured things out together. Instead of looking at marriage as a way to build wealth, we have switched things around and turned it into "wealth before marriage." That was always going to be a recipe for disaster, especially for women.
It's a lot easier to have a six figure household with two incomes than with one. A lot of stability comes from marriage. Ijs. You just have to find someone that you're willing to put up with, that's also willing to put up with you. That's the hard part. lol
Chris is such a sexist dude. What's wrong with women who don't want children? Also women who don't have kids is mostly because they don't find a suitable partner. Focus on men and stop blaming women, Chris. I love Matthew though.
I love that it is two MEN discussing why women are not choosing to have children. Also, it takes two people to create a child...maybe these guys should be discussing why men are choosing not to have children. As a child free woman by choice, there are SO many reasons not to have children. Financial, physical, emotional, psychological...creating and raising a child is probably the most difficult thing to do in this current reality, and for what? These kids are being born into a dumpster fire. Women are smart to not have children at this time.
Maybe instead of ‘wondering’ why women don’t want to have kids you can ASK women, instead of having an all-male panel? Sheeesh this is so many things wrong with what you’re saying. First off, Chelsea Handler is a comedian. Women don’t believe it’s croissants and freaking France.. we KNOW it’s not an easy decision. Instead, we listen to educated women and authors and history experts on making this decision. We live in a patriarchal society - this entire conversation is a perfect representation on how men are once again trying to OWN our bodies and an entire generation of educated, liberated women are along these decisions because we KNOW. We know that the majority of UNPAID labour falls on the mother. We know that it’s an easier decision for men to have kids because there is rarely a risk of loss of career or financial freedom. I’ve been through an abusive relationship of financial control, and escaping it was the best decision I ever made. I was a mess, and lost myself and was terrified for years. This entire conversation should be reflective of responsibility of men’s accountability in the roles of FATHERHOOD. Also, some women just DON’T WANT KIDS.
Animals in a situation of high stress and scarcity of critical resources will limit or forgo reproduction. Human animals are not immune to primal reactions.
I would be open to being a mom, but only under the right circumstances. I’d have to meet the right partner and it would have to make sense for us. I do not under any circumstance want to be a single mother unless my partner died. That means I’d have to be 1000% confident in my partnership that we will actually last in a marriage while raising our children. I’m much more concerned about finding a partner who I’m truly compatible with then rushing to having kids with someone that I’m not just because I have a biological window. If I don’t meet that person until I’m “running out of time” then so be it. I think I could live a happy/fulfilled life with or without children.
Even with the best of intentions it is still possible to end up being a single mom. You simply cannot control teh actions of another another. Some women consider a sperm bank.
I have always thought exactly like this too but then I learnt something, and it is that you might find an amazing partner today and get married, but in 10 years they might simply choose to leave you, or you might find yourself forced to leave them because their treatment towards you have changed and become unsustainable, and as sad as this sounds, it is a reality, and these things truly happen very often. I think women always need to be prepared for the possibility of ending up as single moms, even if you're married for 20 years, things can always shift for the other person and there is no way to know or control that. Also, dynamics in partnerships almost always change after having kids, and sometimes these changes can't be predicted until the kids are already here
The world is becoming more unsustainable by the day, social economic issues impact our mental and health, which will impact the lives of children. Imagine bringing innocent babies to a world of suffering and bleakness as overpopulation is going to lead to due to rising competition for food, jobs, and housing and then risk of war and environmental destruction. Do not blame yourself. You are having an impact to future generations who may or may not see the same world that we saw.
Just make sure you're financially set 🍆 and sperm is about the only thing you can depend in most men for these days. So if you choose motherhood just go into it expecting to be a single mother, that way you're less likely to be disappointed or suffer postpartum. Men tend to switch up once you're pregnant, mid pregnancy, after birth or somewhere a few years down the line. Once you're pregnant or have had their child they figure you're trapped and no one else will ever want you.
The world is becoming more unsustainable by the day, social economic issues impact our mental and health, which will impact the lives of children. Imagine bringing innocent babies to a world of suffering and bleakness as overpopulation is going to lead to due to rising competition for food, jobs, and housing and then risk of war and environmental destruction. Do not blame yourself. You are having an impact to future generations who may or may not see the same world that we saw.
Well, some of us are just struggling to find partners. I dont understand why almost every male on RU-vid is blaming us and using fear mongering tactics to shame us about our lack of children by 30. Some of us (women) are just not men's choice of partners for parenthood or marriage. And after so much lack of interest, i am at peace with the single/childless life that awaits me. Blame the endless choices on dating apps
As a man myself, I might suggest that you might want to approach men. Currently it is not acceptable for us men to approach women, so if you want to attract a man, you are going to have to approach them. Just spark up a simple conservation, about the weather, or about something simple. Men are not that complicated, just be slightly friendly and a little bit warm, and you probably won him over.
We were better off w the Chicago Reader personals. You left a voice message, could tell if they're lying or not or creepy. And they were real and lived near you. Met up for coffee in a few days or less. Didn't waste time w boring texting for MONTHS.
Having kids is a HUGE risk. You become reliant and dependant on the man, who could become abusive. Leaving an abusive situation is extremely hard if you have kids in tow. While they might escape the abusive relationship, a life of poverty awaits on the other side.
also you can have prenups done so if you are financially independent anyway you will have that and will be given support urgently as priority from councils etc, not ideal but at least our country has it. many don't
@@anastasiassecret3837 I had a criminal father so I know what you're talking about sadly....thankfully I'm still alive. It is awful. Glad you're aware of the dark shit that goes on behind closed doors. It is literal madness
It's rather ridiculous having a couple of men on all of these RU-vid channels giving their opinion on feminisism, childfree lifestyle, motherhood, women's choices....etc. It's the woman's life...her choice...let me repeat that HER CHOICE to be happy without kids. Stop the judging and go live your life.
@@Tonald_Drumpft They want control. Nothing worse than a bunch of misogynistic a$$holes complaining about women. An upstanding A+ man would never put down a woman , no matter what her choice of lifestyle. They' re bullies.
I was always ambivalent about having kids. I struggled a lot financially and then never found the right person to settle down with. Looking back, most of my adult life up until recently (I'm 47 now) was just focused on survival. It wasn't so much a choice as it was my circumstances at the time just didn't work out in my favor to become a mother. Now that I'm interested in becoming a mom, it's too late and I'm still single. Sometimes it's just not meant to be.
Marry a guy with young kids and become a stepmom. My 'dad' was actually my stepdad. He was there from the time I was 7 and is the only real father I've known. You could be that for someone. Or adopt. Or use a surrogate. There are options. But you need to want it more to take those paths because the difficulty/sacrifice may be bigger.
You were focused on survival, but didn't realize that two incomes are better than one? Sounds more like you chose to "do bad all by yourself" instead of building with someone, but I'm glad you're doing well now and at peace with it. You can always do the step mom/adoption/coach thing.
To be fair, everyone is on survival mode, a lot of people accidentally have kids while surviving. I wasn’t planning on having a child when I was 22, but I did! While I was studying, working, plus caring for terminally ill grandmother at the time! It was the most defeating time of my life. And things weren’t going smoothly between my boyfriend and I at the time. But what do you know… when my daughter came along, her father and I put our differences aside and had to grow up and be adults bc our life wasn’t about us anymore. We’d have to survive together for our baby. It’s really hard to “surrender and let go” and believe me I went through that stage of feeling like a burden to my daughters father but he was like “nah I got you.” And he did!
Love how two men are talking about how women are so sad they don't have kids. SOME WOMEN ARE CHILDFREE BY CHOICE. WHY AREN'T THERE DATING COACHES FOR CHILDFREE WOMEN????
It’s always interesting hearing men discuss how women should live their lives. Many women are CHOOSING not to have kids because they know how hard motherhood is and there is always a risk of ending up alone with one or more kids to care for. There is so much at stake when choosing to have children. We know that women are set back financially more often than men when they become parents and so much of the emotional and mental load is put on mothers. Others, like myself, just doesn’t want to care for another human being for the rest of their lives and everyone need to respect that. Parenthood is glamorized to an extent that is nauseating.
People who are so quick to judge childfree women… y’all know it costs roughly $400,000 a year to raise a child in this country?? Unless you have THAT kinda money, you have no reason to talk.
I straight up don't want kids. Never have. I don't have anything against children, but I've never been super fond of them either. I know that raising a human takes a lot of work and effort that I neither wish to put it nor think I could successfully pull off. And then there's pregnancy and childbirth. Straight up, both sound like hell and I would rather be dead than go through either. Hats off to those who have gone through that. That's some high level goddess shit right there.
I had 6 years taken from me being in an abusive relationship so I’m glad I didn’t have kids with the person I thought I wanted to. But it defo delayed me as I wanted to have therapy so I wasn’t bringing it into a new relationship and also, time to myself. At 39, trying to date is hard (even though I’m fit and healthy) so I’m dealing with several obstacles. But the main thing is, the way the world is at the moment, I’m not sure how I feel about bringing a child into this weird world. I don’t agree with Chris, women who don’t have kids have been demonised for years, it’s only now people are saying that having kids doesn’t define you. Let Chelsea do what she wants, there are plenty of women, like me, who want children. No one is talking about the woman who want them but have been scarred by last things in life. It saddens me.
@@TGP109 exactly. It’s a cruel world when people are tarred with the same brush if they’re not living up to the society norms. For some, things aren’t as easy. And that’s ok. We just need more understanding of each other but also, leave people to be who they are without judging their lives based on their status. It’s not easy for everyone.
So he was abusive then not you. In what year did he start getting abusive? If the answer is anything less than 5 years then its your fault you lost 6 years, try some accountability.
I totally agree !!!❤️💯 Chris is very Red Pill! Simplic in his approach to the subject. I find him young, slightly emotionally dumb & not very interested to hear anything where men are accountable
Actually, the world has never been healthier, wealthier or less violent then it is right at this moment. It’s a fact even Obama who was a shit president acknowledged this. Look into a history book, don’t be fooled.
I’m honestly so tired of men opining on why women don’t want to be mothers, care actually asking a woman? Growing up, I can’t remember anyone ever telling me I’d be a “second class citizen” for having kids. Most of the teachers and staff I encountered in school were mothers themselves ffs. My own personal preferences on if, when, how, and how many kids have changed and fluctuated a lot over the years, but I can’t attribute any of it to any political agenda trying to insidiously brainwash me as a woman to be r/childfree oooga booga 🙄. What I do see, however, is some feminist discourse pointing out facts about how women are penalized for having kids, particularly economically and in the workplace. The extreme antinatalist types to shame women for becoming or wanting to become mothers are a minority of a minority of a minority who have no relevance or impact on women’s decisions at all. Those childless women who waited themselves out of their fertility windows probably had other things in life they were focused on or just couldn’t find the right guy to procreate with. There’s something to be said about how society is still set up to make women choose between career and family, which I’m certain is a greater contributing factor than any cultural antinatalism.
Neither of them have children. That’s the hilarious part. They’re literally entering the phase where their own fertility is biologically declining. Yet here they are judging women who don’t wanna have children?
I really don’t want children, the idea of it causes me a lot of anxiety. I don’t want to get pregnant I don’t want to give birth and I don’t want to raise kids. It’s a choice and it’s okay. I don’t need to give anyone reasons, I don’t need to justify it. And this other speaker, not Matthew Hussey, really pissed me off. Stop demonising women based off their choices or call them immature or tell them they are selfish. You have no idea who we are and the love we have in our hearts just becsuse we don’t want kids
People have massive regrets about various things. It’s is a part of life. So, all this talk about the women who DON’T have kids while no mention of the unfulfilled, overburdened women who do, is just weird. Especially since women are usually the ones to take on most, if not all childcare. Some of us are seeing how those necessary caregiver type roles, in and out of the home, are massively devalued ... by the very ones asking for us to do it. It’s already a huge risk by default so all this does it make it a really hard sell. Some of those sweet old grandmothers didn’t want any of that either.
THIS SHOULD BE TOP COMMENT. I want to be a mom but I'm so afraid of losing all autonomy. I still want to be me. I understand being a mom is part of that but, just like men, women need individuality. I don't want to be the only one my child is dependent on. I don't want to feel like a single mom while being married... and I know so many women who feel this way. their whole person has become being someone else's.
There are EIGHT BILLION PEOPLE (and counting) in the world today. We don't NEED more humans. We, in the US, have over one hundred thousand children that are unwanted. Why aren't they talking about that? Why are they not suggesting people adopt?? Of a woman gets to an age where she can't have children safely (as safe as pregnancy can be, I mean) and suddenly regrets not having children, they can adopt. I thought I wanted children when I was younger, mostly because society tells me I'm supposed to. I'm so glad I waited!! I will never have (human) children, and I don't want them.
He gets the womens perspective!! 😍 … Seeing my mother in such a finically controlling relationship with her crying on the phone with me - NO WAY! I warn my friends about it! GET YOUR FINICAL independence together before committing your life away .. I’ve seen it go drastically DRAMATICALLY wrong! ( most men won’t talk about it, unlike Mathew as they want you to sit down, shut up and say yes to come what May) They don’t care about your issues. But ladies it really matters.. anything can happen- I’ve seen it. He can leave you - then you have nothing ! You must look after yourself ladies ❤️ even if that’s to look after the child you have together ! Do not leave it to ANYONE ELSE !
You aren’t speaking anything but facts. I’d rather be a rich single mother than any other kind of mother. I’m going to keep wealth building for the rest of my young years and remain single. If I decide I want to be a mother, I’ll adopt on my own bc being inextricably bonded to a man via mutual parentage sounds like a nightmare.
Some people will try to argue with you by referring to their personal experiences, but their experiences are not always so relatable - thus, the people trying to prove you wrong completely miss the point and are just trying to substantiate a subjective narrative.
Women have been told what to do since Adam and Eve. Why these males think they know whats going on in females heads is beyond me. Free choice is what humans seek and is so precious.
I thought that Matthew gave a very thoughtful and mature response and it kind of shut Chris down. :) The truth is that a lot of people will take what a man says more seriously, even if it's about a women's issue. If a woman said the exact same thing, many people would automatically say that she is selfish, bitter, deluded by feminists/TikToc/Chelsea Handler, etc. (BTW, not saying it's right that many people automatically give more weight to mens' opinions, just saying it's what is...)
