I hadn't actually secured the neck protection properly on one side in this video. The bib of the mask turns with the head in any case - gorget's don't really protect at the side much in general, only the front.
Question, then: how would back-of-the-head protection fit? Are there any videos of that? Most of the back protectors I have seen tend to trail down a bit and overlap the jacket's collar. Is there room enough to fit a back protector and still be able to move your head and provide a snug fit?
+Denís Fernández Cabrera hello! A video is in production yes. The mask bib fits inside the collar at the front , the mask protector "lobster-tail" floats outside the collar in back. There are photos of this on the jacket product page at blackarmoury.com
The "riding up" problem can be fixed by flaring the jacket a bit more from the natural waist down. Then the "skirt" will just bend up as you take a low guard. I fight in a home made gambeson like jacket and it works wonderfully for me with just the flaring "hour glass" shape.
Thanks for the review Matt :) do you know what newton rating the Jacket is? Also how is the chest to waist ratio? Does it fit well? Just wondering also what your opinion is on the Gajardoni 800N and Spes Hussar 800N jackets? Cheers!
Matt there was a chap wandering around Fight Camp with a red one of these who is friends and spars with the Jacket's creator! You should have had a chat!
Hi Matt, thanks for your insights on this new HEMA jacket. I had the opportunity to get an impression about the jacket at the recently finished Swordtrip of Ingulf Kohlweiss and Sebastian Linnstädt. Unfortunately, the size they had with them was too far off from my measurements to get tested extensively. I had the impression that while the forearms are well protected, the upper arms are a bit to thin for longsword sparring. Do you have any experience about hits to the upper arms with longswords?
Have you tried the Gajardoni 'Challenge' (the 800N longsword) jacket? If so how does this one compare to it? If not,is there anyone in your club or amongst your friends that could loan you a jacket to try out and compare?
I agree. I suspect it's because they looked at longsword fencers and noted that many of the guard positions start with the left foot forward, so presenting the left side towards the opponent. But of course as soon as you attack from those guards the right foot and side comes forward, so at the moment of impact the fighters tend to be right-side forward more often than left-side forward. Whatever their logic, I think they would be better to put the zip on the left side for right-handers, regardless of weapon type used (except bayonet and spear!!).
Hi Alex. Armpit protection is multi-layer textile. We are having it puncture tested soon, but are already evaluating ways to enhance it. Range of motion is achieved trough very careful tailoring and precise layout of the stiching to allow the jacket to move with the natural "flow" of the body.
I'm thinking of buying a HEMA jacket like this for force-on-force firearms training with paint market rounds (basically high velocity paintballs shot out of real firearms). It looks like basically what I'd want: an overall padded jacket to take the sting out of sudden, sharp impacts to reduce and prevent bruising. Even the extra forearm padding would be useful (if you're facing someone and both pointing guns at each other, it's an area very likely to be hit). And of course, this looks great for the intended purpose of training with contact weapons.
It would work great protection wise and you can add using rubber knives and such like then too. However I'd still adwise some inserts or solid protectors under the jacket too. There's also HEMA fencing pants that work much in the same way that might be useful for the same reasons. Something to keep in mind however is that it's not necessarily easy to wash all of this-you can,but it takes a loooong time to dry off and not all the jackets can be washed in the same way.
aleksandar ristic Thanks for the comment. I would definitely want to pair a protective jacket with protective pants for full protection. It may be that the Black Armoury jacket offers good protection on the back as well, which is good for me. I'm not sure about guard integration, but if mobility and lack of encumbrance with inserts or protectors is good enough for HEMA training it's probably good enough for firearms training. My concerns would be cost and departing too much from the clothing I would be wearing in actual combat. I might try wearing soft body armor underneath the jacket. Paint marker rounds hit hard enough to commonly break skin when hitting more typical clothing. Something like low-profile forearm guards or things that fit into or underneath the jacket and pants should work well. I'll be sure to consider washing directions. But given that these are not everyday jackets, some wear and marking would be acceptable and I can let it dry over a weekend (or a week).
Makes sense. As for added protection under the jacket there's loads of variants,plastic or leather plastrons(sometimes those are worn over the jacket though),thick hard plastic/rubber inserts for the jacket,and some folks will just add a few metal plates underneath the jacket. It wearies a lot and depends on what exactly you want,it's just that thrusting with a dagger for example can break your bones even through a jacket at times so this sort of thing is often useful if you do thrusts(and if you want contact weapons in paintball I imagine bayonets and knives mostly which are likely to use thrusts)
aleksandar ristic Thank you for the advice, it sounds like the HEMA community has a lot of solutions for historical martial training that may also be extremely useful for contemporary martial training. Hand-to-hand and bladed weapon sparring practice presents the same protective challenges as ever, and BBs or paintballs (airsoft, paintball, paint marker force on force, etc.) present a similar "random pointed thrust force" obstacle. I will use your guidance when exploring the options. I may not go out and spend a thousand dollars at once that might be better spent on training, but I might help open up a new market for the manufacturers of this protective gear when I show up to a tactical class wearing this kind of low-profile protective clothing.
It does seem so,I'm actually somewhat surprised more people outside of HEMA aren't using HEMA-made jackets yet(I know of only a handful of people). If you wanna ask more about various jacket options I suggest you ask in the facebook group called 'HEMA Internationl Discussion'(cause there's several jacket makers and pretty much all have a few different version so you might find things that you suit you more that way(not taking away from the black armoury jacket-it does seem great)).
There are cheaper options. For protective gear look at South Coast Swords which distributes the Lynx jacket for $160.00. Darkwood Armory has a jacket for $99.00. Aesir WMA has a new jacket that looks promising and is supposed to be very affordable but I haven't seen the exact price yet.
I noticed when you turned your head side to side flesh was exposed, I wrap scarfs underneath my mask but over my gorget, this will help if you want to cover those vulnerable spots. increases heat though, but I find it stops my mask rubbing on my chin as well.
I love the background of this video, but the camera doesn't show the details of a black jacket well with that bright sky behind it (Bright sky in central England?!?!). Maybe if you were up against the bushes the lower contrast would allow more detail.
I like petterson's jacket, but for only 60 dollars more? not only is the extra protection attractive, but the stitching pattern on this one looks awesome, especially at the back.
I am somewhat doubtful about the breathability. At the end of the day it's pretty much a winter jacket, so I am not sure if what Matt said isn't greatly exaggerated.
Hello. Actually no, not really. There is a bit at first, as you find the right tension at the collar for you, but as the collar is fully adjustable in tightness, once you get used to it you naturally close it "just right"...
I feel that if the neck/gorget were not already bent down that it would raise up with arm movement. Does it still not raise up when everything is completely done up? How increased is the raising up in a low stance with neck done up, helmet on, etc?
Does the collar not "pull" at the sides of your mask when you look from side to side? My jacket tends to pull my mask off-center from the inside when I look around and the wear patterns on the inside of the bib betray the fact that the over-thick collar is abrading it every time I move my head.
Im thinking of getting a jacket from black armoury, wich is why i watched this, but i have an issue that i hope someone here might help me with. On BA's website, they now sell this jacket in both 800 and 350N, with a price diffirence of 100 Euros. Now, my question is what the big difference is besides the thrust protection. Isn't 350N the usual standard on jackets for longsword? wouldn't that make it pointless to spend 100 euros extra for some extra padding?
I just got mine, it's my first fencing jacket. It's a bit tight in the shoulders is this normal? Do I have to "break it in" or should I exchange it for a jacket a size up? Can I make some sort of modification to it to remedy this issue? I don't mind a little tightness, but it makes certain poses like boar' tooth are really awkward feeling. Any thoughts on this would be appreciated!
Can you wear back of head protection (the typical like Allstar/PBT) with this jacket? It seems a bit that it would get in the way of the collar, as the collar is going over the mask. Because if not it seems a bit unsafe on the side and back.
I guess it depends on what you wear exactly - my mask does actually have a back of head protector on it, but it doesn't go as low down the back as some do. However, I think the big flaps that go a long way down would simply go over the top of this collar at the back.
Anthony the guy that makes them replied to another comment saying that they're designed to have back of head protection worn under them. So i'm not sure how they'd interact with those specific pieces. But it is designed to have something there.
Almost everyone I know uses the spes fencing jacket, however in our club beginners usually don't do full contact sparring, and if you're a beginner i'd advice not to jump into full contact sparring, if you fight without control you can end up breaking joints and ribs even with a vest. So I'd recommend the vest if you're beginning to spar but have practised for a while. If you can't wait to spar a vest + additional solid protection might be in order unless you're confident that you can have enough control not to injure your partner
may I ask a silly quetion? How do these padded jackets compare to the historical item? Are they even comparable given the different context they are used in and the materials they are made of?
Which historical item? HEMA fencing jackets don't exactly have a medieval equivalent - the closest thing being arming doublets to be worn under armour, or gambesons designed to even be able to act as armour by themselves. They are more or less similar to gambesons and earlier arming doublets. They are more or less similar to Victorian fencing jackets used for sabre and bayonet fencing.
I knew I should have been more specific haha. Yeah I meant gambesons. I was wondering how much of a difference in weight and level of protection there would be.
There is a lot of variation in historical gambesons, based largely on whether they are supposed to be worn under other armour, or be the whole armour by themselves. It's clear that some were hugely thick and heavy, while others were quite thin. So it's kind of impossible to answer the question, other than to say that HEMA jackets are kind of like medium gambesons.
I don't think it would be a problem. Though my concerns about Gajardoni masks are bigger - I got sent one to review which got the wire mesh broken (not just bent) after one hit. They sent me a replacement and the exact same thing happened again.
Well, I have two broken ones right here. Both broke after one average sabre hit each. I have never seen a fencing mask break before in 19 years of HEMA.
Yes, it's quite suitable for those styles as well, though with spear, poleaxe and other weapons with particularly heavy thrusts, a rigid under-plastron is recommended - using any jacket really. Ribs really don't like spears very much...
noticed youre not wearing head overlay or back of head protection. im wondering how a standard spes overlay would work with that extra thick colar (could possibly restrict head turning?)
Oh ok sorry it was hard to see. So the back flap from a standard spes mask overlay wouldnt restict movement? Id probably still have to wear the gorget in tournaments even with this, WMAA in Australia is obsessed with steel gorget, some tournaments dont even allow the pbt. Its irrating, i hate gorgets lol
Hi! We're currently working on the prototypes for optional hard shell inserts to our jacket collar. Do you feel that the integration of hard protection with the integrated neck protection of the jacket could address these concerns Down Under?
+Black Armoury it depends what its mode from. "Swordplay" which is one of the biggest hema events in aus, requires steel gorgets. Its really dumb and one if the reasons i dont bother attending because i have the pbt gorgot which i think works fine and im not buying another just for one tournament. All other tournaments except the pbt gorget but that could change who knows.....
Can somebody in touch with HEMA answer my question please? I am Japanese swordman, learning classic samurai style swordmanship. And I'm thinking about introducing HEMA gears for sparring. However, I really have no idea how sufficient the HEMA gears protection is. How heavy is the longsword used in HEMA? Training (fake) Katana is about 1~1.5kg, made with stainless steel. Would it be safe to strike such katana hard as you can against HEMA gears?? I'd really appreciate if anyone can answer my question. Thank you.
I'm not sure stainless steel is the best material to use on a sword, it tends to be a bit more brittle than carbon steel, but if it works for you then it works for you. The longswords and Federshwerts we use for HEMA are in about the same range, but they also tend to be longer and the blades are quite flexible. This makes them hit a lot less hard than a more solid, thicker, shorter blade. There is also variation in what levels of protection HEMA fencers wear, even in tournaments. It's usually standard to require rigid plates over the neck, hands, knees and elbows, and over the back of the head. Plus you need a fencing mask and some sort of puncture resistant clothing. But some people wear more plates than that, covering the arms and torso. Some people consider a sport fencing jacket to provide sufficient protection, while others prefer thickly padded gambesons. It's also somewhat common (particularly in Fiore schools for some reason) to wear steel helmets instead of fencing masks with perforated plates over the face. So the answer is maybe. It's more up to you to figure out what kind of force levels you're dealing with and modulate the amount of protection you wear accordingly.
GM Kusnov Speaking as someone who also has experience in Japanese swordsmanship, I think you have a few possible options. Certain HEMA shops like Purple Heart Armory make sythentic katanas that weigh and handle similar to the real thing, but additionally you could probably contact Peter Regenyei and maybe commission a feder like Katana which is safer, weighs the same but with most of the weight towards the hilt. I don't know about stainless steel because I've heard of a lot of accidents resulting from issues with it.
Black Armoury can accept the USD. The price in US dollars is $300, but are not yet set up on the site to process US orders. For US customers it is best for us to process your order manually, calculate shipping and send you a Paypal payment request.
There are cheaper options. For protective gear look at South Coast Swords which distributes the Lynx jacket for $160.00. Darkwood Armory has a jacket for $99.00. Aesir WMA has a new jacket that looks promising and is supposed to be very affordable but I haven't seen the exact price yet.
I didn't mean to imply you were being insulting, I just found it funny because he's a terrifying opponent famous for twirling his sword to great effect.
This is obviously a "generic" fencing jacket, to be worn by fencers using all types of weapons. Would it be realistic (in terms of cost) to have specialized jackets for saber, rapier, etc.?
They sort of already have that, usually protection is 3w, but ive seen stuff designed just for foil fencing, They were cheaper than 3w, but not by enough to justify it. Thing is, its not really needed, jackets are already available in various protections.
Tea Kew It is. Wearing black in summer attracts alot of sun. After like 10 minutes you will start cooking inside. Best example of this are cars. Once you get you, you get burns from black leather, because it got heathen by sun.
Yes, it makes a difference to cars. And maybe if you decided to lie around in the sun in your fencing jacket it would be a bit relevant. But the thing about a fencing jacket is that while you're wearing it, you're normally fencing. The heat your body is putting out is way more significant as a cause of overheating than any effect of the sun. (Obviously, you do cook more easily in hot weather than cold - but black or white jacket makes pretty much no difference)
Tea Kew First of all i agreee with many of your statements. Especialy with this - "The heat your body is putting out is way more significant as a cause of overheating than any effect of the sun." - It really means alot to have better venting than black colour. However, id choose as lighter colour as possible just to not receive that extra heat which may cause a loss. Even with black pan ts i can feel alot of difference when walking in summer.
