Blackhawk Knoxx BreachersGrip Malfunctions - Rem870.com Pistol Grip Review

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Footage & analysis of recoil-induced malfunctions I observed with a Blackhawk Knoxx BreachersGrip pistol grip that I was testing on a Remington 870 for a review project for Rem870.com.
Read the complete review here:
Part 1: www.rem870.com/...
Part 2: www.rem870.com/...
Another article with details on no-feed malfunctions:
www.rem870.com/...
*CORRECTION at 0:14 on the gun's mass: The gun as configured here is 7 lbm LOADED; the UNLOADED mass is 6.5 lbm (free recoil energy numbers are accurate).
"Brief" explanation of what's happening here:
The Blackhawk BreachersGrip uses a spring-loaded cam linkage to allow the gun to recoil semi-independently of the grip, taking the shock out of the recoil by spreading its application to the shooter's hand over a much longer time frame. This makes this grip very comfortable to shoot with, even with heavy loads.
However, as the spring stores & releases energy, the sharp back-and-forward motion of the rest of the gun can jerk the slide open with enough velocity to fully self-open the action if the user doesn't have a good hold of the fore-end. This isn't unsafe for the shooter or dangerous to the gun (the 870's slide is unlocked and free to move as soon as the hammer drops, so it's not as if the action is opening when it's not designed to), but it can lead to feed malfunctions where the shell latches cycle completely while the next shell in the magazine is still in "hang-time" above them from the initial recoil acceleration, and so that shell ends up on the forward shell latch rather than feeding onto the carrier.
Obviously, this is not desirable behavior for a fighting shotgun. I tried some fixes that work for other stocks & grips, but with the sharp motion of that spring-loaded recoil-reducing system, I just couldn't get the gun to run 100% reliably with this grip while shooting without a hand on the fore-end unless I stuck to very light loads - loads that would have been perfectly comfortable with a normal pistol grip.
I do think the BreachersGrip is a quality product that performs very well, and I highly recommend it for recreational shooting, where you'll be firing enough shells to justify the size, weight, complexity, and cost of the recoil-reducing system. But if you want a "working" pistol grip for realistic combat, defense, survival, or utility roles, I think a smaller, simpler, and more reliable pistol grip would be a better choice.
Thanks to Brownells & Rem870.com for supporting this project.

Опубликовано:

2 окт 2024

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Комментарии : 78

@natedean5815 4 года назад

Yeah this is normal as far as I know on pumps. Hence why your supposed to hold with both hands.

@raptorman6589 5 лет назад

I think your the malfunction

@christianwick9776 5 лет назад

I think you malfunctioned in 2nd grade english based on your grammar.

@MrMikesMondoVideo 4 года назад

@@christianwick9776 **English** Now go stand in the corner.

@this_is_ARZEN 2 года назад

Your face is malfunction

@jzahirniak 7 лет назад

Calling this a "malfunction" is not accurate. The stock is doing exactly what it is supposed to do. I get the marketing saying its one handed and that is dumb. Consider the way this stock works. The entire gun is sliding back on the stock during recoil and then it stops and returns the absorbed energy...this IS going to bring the now free bolt back, physics has rules! How is Knoxx/Blackhawk supposed to prevent that? If you shoot it as you should with a hand on the slide you would not have the issues you are reporting here as a "malfunction". I have the Gen2 shoulder stock and I suspect that if I held it one handed it would do this as well. A shotgun is a two handed weapon.

@SynchronizorVideos 7 лет назад

It is a malfunction; auto-ejecting and stovepipes are not normal function for a pump gun. The grip itself isn't malfunctioning, but it is the cause of the malfunctions. Other grips I've tried mitigate recoil without encouraging these malfunctions by using mechanisms that travel less and also dampen the movement. You may need a slightly heavier mag spring, but the gun will work reliably if you have to take your hand off the fore-end for whatever reason. You're right that a pump gun is a two-handed weapon, but Blackhawk does go out of its way to say that this grip is supposed to make the 870 usable one-handed, so I have to hold this against them at least somewhat. As I say in this video and my full review, I like this grip a lot for recreational shooting. It works very well at mitigating recoil, and is great if you want to go through a lot of shells for fun. But in this particular area, it doesn't perform as advertised.

@grendelgrendelsson5493 6 лет назад

Before anyone else makes insulting comments about Synchronizor, check out Blackhawk's own channel with a one handed grip video.

@danielschmidt7153 3 года назад

This is normal, it's a pump action, it's not supposed to self cycle....

@jmc2491 3 года назад

Right?! I thought I was crazy lol

@MrMikesMondoVideo 4 года назад

Put an accessory on a firearm that it wasn't designed for, then shoot that firearm in a way it wasn't designed to be shot, and then conclude that “this is not desirable behavior for a fighting shotgun.” What's next… a video of the sun rising in the East, and then conclude the sun doesn't rise in the West?

@SynchronizorVideos 4 года назад

First, this grip is specifically designed for the 870. Second, Blackhawk's advertising claimed quite heavily that this grip allows for effective one-handed operation: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-SM6-FdS0idw.html You can actually see some auto-opening in their video if you look closely. I actually quite like this grip, but it doesn't live up to the manufacturer's claims in this specific area. While I wouldn't recommend it for combat or defensive applications, it's very nice on a recreational or range toy build.

@MrMikesMondoVideo 4 года назад

@@SynchronizorVideos Wrong. First - The firearm was not designed to be shot that way. You shoot it in a way it was never designed to be shot and then wonder why it malfunctions. Second - You need to read what I wrote again. I’ll help you in parentheses. Put an accessory on a firearm that it (the firearm) wasn't designed for, then shoot that firearm in a way it (the firearm) wasn't designed to be shot, and then conclude that “this is not desirable behavior for a fighting shotgun.” *> “Blackhawk's advertising claimed quite heavily that this grip allows for effective one-handed operation”* So you shoot it with two hands on the pistol grip instead of one. LOL It functions in Blackhawk’s video, doing exactly what Blackhawk said it could do. And then it doesn't function in your video, with you not doing what Blackhawk did. LOL Here's a hint… if you're going to do a test to challenge the manufacturer on their claims, then do what the manufacturer did. I couldn't care less about Blackhawk, but you've compromised yourself here with your comments, conclusion, methodology, and what Is beginning to look like a silly witch hunt.

@kanoho2803 4 года назад

Synchronizor wtf is one handed operation good for. You’d just look like an idiot using it like that. This pistol grip is to reduce recoil compared to a normal pistol grip. No one told you to hold a fckn PUMP ACTION SHOTGUN like an actual pistol

@kanoho2803 4 года назад

MrMikesMondoVideo I agree with u party way. I think the Blackhawk is very good for reducing recoil whilst being able to use a shotgun with no stock thus allowing for more maneuverability. But then I agree that he shouldn’t be holding it like an actual pistol. It’s a pump action shotgun.... you need one hand on the forend and one on the grip lol. Pointless to shoot a shotgun like a pistol.

@MrMikesMondoVideo 4 года назад

@@kanoho2803 agreed.... because it has a pistol grip doesn't mean it's supposed to be shot like a pistol. :)

@theaccount628 5 лет назад

Who in the blue fuck shoots a shotgun like that??? Also, even a breacher style TAC-14 wouldn’t be fired that way.

@whitechrist8700 5 лет назад

Did you not understand the purpose of the video? It was for demonstration purposes to show what can happen if you do not have a firm enough grip on the forestock. No more and no less.

@MarQDog 4 года назад

The internet’s made EVERYBODY an expert. Same thing happens with the factory built 870, straight out of the box. For starters, I suggest holding your shotgun correctly

@SynchronizorVideos 4 года назад

Nope, the gun didn't do this with other pistol grips or a standard stock. If yours is, you probably need to replace your magazine spring.

@AK-47ISTHEWAY Год назад

@SynchronizorVideos It has nothing to do with the magazine spring. Your support hand needs to be on the forehand. Even my Winchester 1300 and Mossberg 590 will do this if I don't hold it with two hands.

@JeepJeep234 3 года назад

"Look how a 2 hand operated gun malfunctions when you only use 1 hand to operate it!"

@elephantintheroom7063 3 года назад

And in a really bad self defense scenario .... you may only have one hand to operate your weapon. Grow up and venture outside your little world

@humble.servant.Christ 2 года назад

Exactly 💯

@JeepJeep234 2 года назад

@@elephantintheroom7063 That's a terrible way to try and say I'm wrong. If you can't grasp the concept of my paraphrase then maybe you should look at getting out of your own tiny world. If you're in an engagement and you suddenly lose the mobility of one limb especially when it's needed to manipulate a complex weapon system, you do what ever you can. YOU CANNOT RELY on a complex weapon system that requires two hands to operate, it is doable, it's been done before, but it doesn't mean you can say something is bad because it failed when you utilize it in a manner it was never intended to be used.

@bengraves5291 5 лет назад

Happens every time with the factory grip. Not a malfunction.

@SynchronizorVideos 4 года назад

You need to replace your mag spring if this is happening to you every time. Possibly other components as well.

@majikwittak5657 3 года назад

@@SynchronizorVideos You want people to have a slide that's tough to open? That's perfect for a fight👍🏾

@SynchronizorVideos 2 года назад

@@majikwittak5657 The magazine spring does not affect the slide movement.

@Trail-of-dead 3 года назад

People in these comments don’t know what their watching, or what a breachers grip is, you gotta get the wire “stock” to complete it good vid

@spoke1183 5 лет назад

Limp wrist is pretty common fail to eject on every gun made on planet.

@SynchronizorVideos 5 лет назад

That's for recoil-operated semi-autos. This is a pump shotgun, it shouldn't be moving on its own at all. Besides, limp-wristing actually makes these malfunctions less likely.

@Plus_P_Plus 3 года назад

@@SynchronizorVideos you’ve got to be kidding.

@zuments 6 лет назад

two hands please.....geez

@SynchronizorVideos 6 лет назад

This video is specifically about one-handed operation. I also shot it plenty with a conventional two-handed hold. There are links in the description to my full review.

@jerryaddington3310 7 лет назад

The Knoxx grip is not supposed to convert your pump action into an auto loader. It is only supposed to reduce felt recoil. It would have been nice to see a few rounds fired with you actually properly holding the shotgun to see if some how the recoil still disengages the slide with your hand on the forearm where it should be. Now that said it would be interesting to see a fixed mounted front grip and modified weight in place of a forearm that could make it an autoloader. But I would imaging the Bolt and the Rails of the pump action would have to be pretty polished and well as some type of return spring for the weight in the modified pump action. If you make that video I would like to see it but it will be very dangerous it fires out of battery.

@SynchronizorVideos 7 лет назад

This Knoxx grip works fine with a hand on the fore-end; the action might open slightly under recoil, but that won't cause any problems like what you see here. I actually really enjoy shooting with this grip, because it's very effective at mitigating recoil. I wouldn't recommend it over other grips for defensive use or breaching applications due to its bulk, weight, complexity, and lackluster ergonomics, but it's very nice for recreational shooting. There are links to my complete review in the video description, if you're interested in my overall thoughts on this and other pistol grips. This video is just a visual aid for one small part of it. The 870 won't fire out of battery unless something is really broken with it. The locking block doesn't allow the firing pin to protrude past the breechface until it's all the way up into the barrel's locking notch. As far as making the 870 into a semi-auto, there's really not much point to it. Trying to make a pump gun into a short-recoil action with a spring-loaded stock & weighted fore-end would be really sketchy and finicky, and extremely sensitive to loads and how the gun is being held. Besides, Remington's already made several semi-auto adaptations of the 870, such as the Models 58 & 878, which are essentially 870s with a gas piston in the end of the mag tube rather than a moving fore-end. You can even drill gas ports in an 870 barrel for use on those guns. Eventually, that development line ended at the very successful gas-operated 1100 & 11-87 models.

@jerryaddington3310 7 лет назад

I will subscribe to read your review. I was only suggesting the auto loading mod to see if it could be done as more of a project gun. There are enough auto loaders to choose from but since this was pointed out as a malfunction I was thinking as a project to make it an advantage.

@SynchronizorVideos 7 лет назад

You shouldn't have to subscribe to anything, just click the link in the video description. If the site's blocking you for some reason, let me know and I'll talk to the guy who runs that blog. Keep in mind that the real malfunction here isn't the action opening, but the fact that it's opening so quickly that the next shell in the magazine isn't feeding reliably. Note how I usually have to close the action, then press the action bar lock and cycle it again to get a shell to feed.

@oliverallen1966 2 года назад

It will do that with the factory p grip too Einstein

@br549sample 4 года назад

Hold the shotgun correctly? SHM...

@SynchronizorVideos 4 года назад

Just following what the manufacturer says I should be able to do with this grip - that's what's being tested here. It does work fine with a normal two-handed hold, though the grip is still quite heavy and bulky.

@Crlarl 3 года назад

It's SMH, not SHM.

@taylordavison6849 7 лет назад

Is your shotgun supposed to do that? Last time I checked, the Rem. 870 was a pump shotty.

@SynchronizorVideos 7 лет назад

The gun itself actually isn't doing anything it's not designed to. The 870's slide unlocks and becomes free to move backward right as the hammer falls, while the bolt is staying locked up until after the payload leaves the muzzle and pressure drops in the barrel. A fast shooter can work the action just as quickly by hand after firing, and can run into similar no-feed situations by doing so if the magazine setup & recoil of the shells are out of balance. But usually, when someone is intentionally working the action that fast, it's for things like competition where lighter loads are used (or there are some competition-specific mods that can allow for extremely fast shooting with heavier stuff). Someone intentionally cycling that fast should also be making sure to fully-stroke the action, avoiding stovepipes like you see here. This Blackhawk grip is advertised as being effective, ergonomic, and combat-reliable when used one-handed, which I've found to not be the case.

@dr.burtgummerfan439 4 года назад

Now try the same thing with a standard pg and watch the same thing happen...

@SynchronizorVideos 4 года назад

Nope, of the four pistol grips I tested, two wouldn't do this at all, and the third would only do it with an excessively weak magazine spring installed.

@dr.burtgummerfan439 4 года назад

@@SynchronizorVideos I've seen it happen with people trying to one-hand a traditional stock as well as one-handing pistol grips.

@rjuanjr13 7 лет назад

it's an interesting experiment but that stock is designed for breaching doors, not one handed firing down range. Can you post a video where you are using the stock as designed and demonstrate if it performs the way it was designed to? Thanks!

@SynchronizorVideos 7 лет назад

It's _marketed_ as a breaching grip, but I would argue it wasn't really designed with that role in mind, and I certainly wouldn't recommend it for that purpose in any case. With that spring & cam system in there, the grip is big, heavy, complicated, and not very ergonomic. The recoil reduction does work well, but for the amount of shells you'd fire during a breaching action, it's not really worth all the trade-offs. There are other pistol grips for the 870 that are simpler, more compact, and easier to handle, while still being perfectly comfortable for a few shots into a door. I do think the Knoxx is very good for recreational shooting, where you will be shooting enough for the recoil-reducing feature to actually justify itself. Also, Blackhawk's marketing goes on about the “ergonomic pistol grip” that allows for “comfortable one-handed operation”. If they didn't push this so much in the marketing, I'd probably be more willing to let it's very poor one-handed performance slide. Remember, this video is just one small piece of a much more in-depth and exhaustive review of four pistol grips for the 870. If you want to read more about this grip, follow the links in the video description to the full review.

@rjuanjr13 7 лет назад

So are you saying it won't work as a door breacher - based on what? Either way the proper grip for a shotgun is one hand on the foregrip and one on the buttstock or pistol grip. What you've accomplished is the shotgun equivalent of "limp wristing" a pistol which leads to malfunctions. The shotgun isn't for the faint of heart.

@SynchronizorVideos 7 лет назад

You can certainly use it for breaching, I never said it _wouldn't_ work; I just don't think it's a good choice compared to other options out there. The malfunctions aren't even the main reason I say that. It's got a bunch of moving parts that would render the gun unusable if they fail, it's heavier than a full polymer stock with a quality recoil pad, the grip shape is chunky and not very ergonomic, the long grip and recoil extension add considerable length & height, and the thing has an MSRP of nearly $100. It does a great job of mitigating recoil, but when you're just firing a few shots for a breaching action, that isn't really much of a benefit. By the way, this isn't limp-wristing. I know how to shoot a shotgun, and in fact, allowing the gun more recoil movement actually helps to discourage this type of malfunction with most pistol grips, while bracing very firmly against the recoil makes issues more likely. But with the very sharp back-and-forth spring action of this Knoxx grip, it doesn't really matter. The malfunction frequently occurs either way.

@rjuanjr13 7 лет назад

Synchronizor I still would like to see your trials done with a proper grip on the weapon.

@SynchronizorVideos 7 лет назад

As I said, check out my review. It has a huge amount of information about this and three other pistol grips for the 870, as well as my shooting experiences and overall thoughts on the positives and negatives of each one. This video is just a visual aid for one small part of it. At the end of the day, I do actually like this pistol grip. I just don't think it's very well suited for breaching or fighting roles compared to others.

@yogistrail9723 7 лет назад

Thanks dude your videos about the 870 are second to none. Have you ever thought about doing a how to cleaning video? Like a basic cleaning to a detailed cleaning? Thanks again Synchronizor!

@SynchronizorVideos 7 лет назад

I'll probably do a cleaning video at some point. It's been on my list pretty much since the beginning, but there have always been other topics that seemed more useful or interesting, whereas cleaning an 870 is pretty simple, and there are already plenty of resources to assist new owners with it. Of course, that's the same thinking that kept a disassembly video on the back burner for awhile, but when I finally made one, it was really popular and really seemed to add something useful to the community. I don't have a lot of free time for videos right now, and there are several other videos in the pre-production stages, but most of those are held up on various things at the moment. I won't say to expect it all that soon, but now would actually be a pretty good time to start on a cleaning video. Thanks for the reminder.

@yogistrail9723 7 лет назад

Thanks for the time you put into your videos!

@Steezy.gunz_ 4 года назад

Where can I order this

@jamesglynn7389 4 года назад

I just installed this exact grip on my 870 and now I have a sticking problem on the eject end of the reload, any help?

@SynchronizorVideos 4 года назад

What do you mean by "sticking"?

@majikwittak5657 3 года назад

The grip has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with that

@musicandcoffee2853 7 лет назад

Very informative. Have always wondered about those stocks. I'll just stick with my hardwood 👍Keep up the videos!

@Jak-it 7 лет назад

how is it a recoil reducing pisrolgrip and do they make one for Mossberg is that grip spring loaded or something so that when shot the whole front of the gun can move freely kind of like an artillery barrel

@SynchronizorVideos 7 лет назад

Yes, they make a Mossberg version. As for how it works, there's a link in the video description to my full review. I go into detail about the mechanics of the recoil-reduction system there.