"Blitzkrieg": Stuka & Panzer - DEBUNKED 

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Talking about stukas ... " So in this episode we will take a deeper dive ... " Lmao

"Taking a deeper dive" I see what you did there!

So you're saying.....Stukas kill Panzers?

A most informative video! This perception is still widespread and while in general "accurate" IMO, is not accurate enough to be a correct easy generalization. Good to have it covered though, I have learned new things as always. And I really liked your incorporation of War Thunder footage for representative purposes. That said I noted that I had a hard time focusing on what you were saying during those segments, I was immediately distracted by the footage in a sense. *That said upon a second viewing, I was able to pay attention to both without issue.* So ones mileage may vary but I like what you did. And congrats to the sponsorship and as I said, a fantastic and informative video.

I like that you've started incorporating footage from WT. I could imagine situations where the visual models could be used to explain nuances of design or the implementation of specific tactics. Obviously this adds a layer of preparation, but I think it could be well worth it.

8:52 Easter egg: "Panzer Forces Fast and Führious"

Do you think you could make a video about the use of Motorcycles in the wars? It seems to be something everyone knows about but nobody knows any details...

You should make a video on motorcycle use in the German army. They were used to great effect. For example, each convoy section would have a few motorcycles assigned. One of them would drive behind the convoy, and if a vehicle in the convoy malfunctioned, the motorcyclist would notify a repair truck and the officers. Another motorcyclist would scout ahead of the convoy while looking for any potential obstacles. This had a big impact on the convoy's efficiency. Motorcyclists were also used as couriers along the front. Since the motorcycle could have an optional sidecar, the effectiveness of the unit was greatly increased. The passenger could focus on details during scouting, and is likely to have a mounted machine gun which allowed for harassing tactics. During combat, the motorcyclists engage the enemy before the rest of their forces, and then return back to relay what they encountered in order to give the officers an idea of what to expect. A strategy sometimes used was to shell a town, and then after the shelling the motorcyclists would swarm in within minutes, denying the defenders a chance to even leave the shelters and return to their positions. The motorcycles were sturdy, reliable, and in case of a malfunction the driver and the passenger were trained and equipped to fix it.

Any chance of a video on the differences between WW2 and modern tank doctrines?

Another great video! It's very cool that you cited the works of Dr. Williamson Murray in this video. He was one of my professors at Ohio State when I was pursuing my undergraduate history degree. I took his WWII and European Warfare II courses.

Will you ever make a video on the Qing-Russian border skirmishes and bandit raids? It’s a very interesting topic that few have covered in video format, much to my dismay.

MHV, I love the content of your videos, but I also love the tone. The infographics for 'Air Commanders often not up-to-date' and 'Fast and Furhious' have me chuckling, and that little lightening of the mood is delightful. And it does that without you dropping your authoritative tone voice. I think it is the perfect mix.

Wow this is epic, Alexa can we invade Poland?

Interesting that the change in how we perceive the effectiveness of Stuka attacks exactly mirrors how the Allied Close Air Support was perceived a few years later in the war. Both went from stories about how Stuka's / Typhoons were totally deadly to individual tanks to the insight that they were far more deadly to morale, initiative and tactical mobility.

My family fought on both sides of the war during WW2. My uncle that fought on the Britixh side would often mention the psychological effect on him and his mates....the screaming of the Stuka air sirens was damning and terrifying. He also complaindd how the Stukas kept wiping out their supplies with direct attcks and cutting off bridges, etc...lol....He only had great respect and fear for the German Stukas and panzers. He served at/in Dunkirk, Africa, Italy and France (D-Day).....all the way to Germany.

I think "Clarified" is a better word than "Debunked". All the armed forces in WW2 had problems with CAS and resolved them with varying levels of success. During the Cobra breakout in Normandy 3rd Army units came under repeated attacks by friendly forces as they penetrated deep into German rear areas. One of the reasons Montgomery gave for refusing to alter the army boundries and thus speeding up the closing of the Falaise Gap was fear of "blue on blue" both on the ground AND from the air. Especially as British units had RAF CAS and American AAF CAS. Even with all the precautions it still happened; mis-read maps, units mis-identifying their own positions, pilot errors in navigation, all contributed. Clearly, CAS for advancing ground elements is by far the most difficult. Still again is the almost pathological resistance of fighter/fighter bomber pilots to engage in it, It's close in dangerous work when most would vastly prefer to be pitting their skills against opposing pilots. Here the Luftwaffe had somewhat of an institutional advantage as it's primary role was seen as one of supporting the army. American and British pilots saw that as a secondary role. While the Ju-87 was technically obsolete for much of the war; it was purpose built for immediate highly accurate interdiction. Later tank busting variants made it a deadly threat on the Eastern Front where Soviet air density was less by an order of magnitude than Allied AF in the west. Despite using the P-47 and Typhoons in "ground attack" squadrons, neither were ever truly satisfactory. US and British surveys after the battle of the Falaise pocket revealed allied pilot claims against German armor were wildly exaggerated. The only thing they killed in large numbers were German horses who proved far more vulnerable to rocket firing Allied "fighter bombers" than German tanks; for obvious reasons. Later during Operation Market-Garden CAS was simply unavailable except for the lead units in British 30 Corps. The American Airborne units had not been provided with British liason officers and the failure of radio communication with the British 6th Abn Div at Arnhem is well documented. Currently, USAF operating against poorly equipped indigenous forces in the Middle East and Afghanistan has developed systems of awesome, pin point accuracy. Yet (and here I speak from personal experience) the most popular CAS aircraft among ground troops is the A-10 Warthog. Here is an aircraft purpose built for close support that fufills it's role perfectly. The USAF however didn't want it and has been trying to kill it off almost from the moment it appeared. Instead they insist on using 100 million dollar F-35s when the A-10 does the job for 1/5 the cost and is far better at it. This is the unfortunate result of the "Key West" agreement when the USAF became a seperate service that ALL fixed wing aircraft other than small artillery spotters and tactical air transport would be airforce; no exceptions. For a time in the late 90s their was talk of amending the agreement specifically to transfer the A-10 lock, stock. and barrel to the US Army; but in the end nothing came of it. Which is why to this day the USAF "claims" everything it flies is CAS capable, yet risking 100 million dollar 5th gen fighters to a "golden BB" seems the height of folly. Then again, how well these systems might function against a near peer in a high threat environment remains to be seen. Still another great video. Kudos as always.

Poland wasn't invaded by Germany alone, but by Germany, and their allies, the USSR and Slovakia.

Sponsored by war thunder. Dayum. The best sponsorship you could have. They gotta put that is7 and is6 money somewhere

This was great. Very clear and straightforward. The sourcing and images on screen were also very supportive of the argument you were making.

Congrats on your sponsorship !!

It's interesting to compare the Luftwaffe's report about CAS effectiveness against the French in 1940 to that of the US & RAF attacks on the Germans in Normandy, 1944. In the latter case, the German also reported few tanks lost to aircraft. However devastation to soft skin support vehicles and infantry was comperablely high, as well as demoralizing to troops. This appears quite similar to the Luftwaffe's effect on French armor units in 1940.

Finally someone sponserd by a good game wich the youtuber actually likes! getting sick of nice channels such as The great war etc getting sponserd by mediocre browser games with annoying business models

Haven't watched the video but I already know it'll be great.

I love your icons / graphics! Always great

The link is greatly appreciated, Kamerad.

Excellent video. It compliments Bismarck’s video on the principles and effectiveness of air/ground cooperation. The biggest impact was on the opposition morale. A question did the Henschel 129, have any impact better than the JU87 and why were they not used in Normandy, on the principle of temporary overwhelming a specific area. The Luftwaffe did achieve it occasionally because of the occasional numbers of Typhoons and Thunderbolts lost.

Panzer Forces Fast & FÜHRious haha :D

I think it just goes to show the difficulty of combined arms tactics and how this was in the early stages of conceptualization, and utilization in WWII.

I suppose the later stuka variants with 20mm and 37mm guns came after the "blitzkrieg" phase, but it would've been nice to hear of their operations against light and medium tanks. IIRC even the 20mm guns were sometimes used to pierce the top armor of various tanks.

You should make an episode about the uses of v-1 and v-2 rockets in a tactical warfare role rather than a strategic one. (Idk if this even took place but it should be an interesting video nonetheless)

What is the minimum height and maximum height from which the bombs were actually dropped?

That reference with stuka by war thunder animation was cool

Well done video, personal had most of this information already. Decades ago read the book on Rudel and searched for years after to find other first hand experiences on how the war was actually fought.

Deeper dive Dive Get it?

In Finland, Kuhlmey`s Focke-Wulf and Stuka (55 plane, lost 22) were fight during a major battle in 1944, helping to stop Red Army. There were about 200 tanks and 150 planes destroyed and many more by them. It solved the battle and stopped the attack. Finnish air force was good, but Kuhlmey`s was on upper level. In few weeks they destroy all this amount enemies.

Oh no! now he's debunking my blitzkrieg!

I'd say the most impact the Stuka had on the enemy during the early campaigns and even later on during the war was that the enemy had to take up to 500kg bombs on his ass or at least on close proximity.. And during 1939-41 the enemy was not capable of returining the favour.. Even if direct hits were not scored the sheere concussion and blast of such ordnance left the enemy dazed and confused.. The same effect as the Allies bombarded the Germans with heavy naval artillery in Normandie. I've read a description of an aerial attack made by Fliegerkommando Kuhlmey in Finland during the Soviet summer offensive in 1944 against Soviet armour attack readyness positions.. "The entire assembly area was a scene of havoc.. 500kg bombs had tossled T34/85 tanks and SU-152 assault guns upside down or thrown them around the forest like toys.. The scene was covered with piles of fallen down and splintered full size tree trunks and all the fuel in the vicinity was a blaze.."

I was impressed in reading that the Americans had pilots in the lead tanks during the Falais Pocket operation to communicate for CAS, but now I "Heer" that the Germans did the same in 1941!?! We must have lifted that move from their playbook, no?

Excellent video as always, I love it when I have my preconceptions changed!

The German invasion of Poland brought Stukas in as the German's airborne artillery. These aircraft were the bane of logistical activity. Stukas virtually starved Polish units of ammunition. When the ammunition ran out the unit either surrendered or dispersed. Polish soldier's morale was not dependent on the weapons the Germans used. Morale was kept up by staging successful night attacks or bayonet attacks. The Germans hated fighting at night and were not well trained in the used of the bayonet. Stukas were primarily successful in breaking the Polish logistical effort.

The Stuka is my favourite plane of WW2. You'd need balls of hardened steel to be the rear gunner when that thing was coming in for a dive.

8:22 The Stukas with the cannons did not come out until the late war, like around '43. The thing that always irritates me about IL-2 Sturmovik 1946 is that you can't seem to destroy a target when you drop a bomb right next to it or within a few meters/feet of it. I dropped a bomb by a transport ship and it had no effect on the target. The resulting explosion was disappointing and it did absolutely no damage to the ship, even though in real life, it would pretty much destroy the target. In the Men of War series, if a Stuka drops a bomb close to the tank that is being attacked, it usually destroys it. However, in IL-2 Sturmovik 1946, the resulting bomb explosions are rather canned and it's throwing marshmallows at the tank. The explosions cause no real damage to the tanks or any other targets.

Stuka pilots said they were ungainly aircraft at times, requiring great physical strength. If the Jericho sirens were turned on, the noise in the aircraft was deafening.

I would really like to know more about the French air force (and about the French army in general). Here in France, one of the things we hear and have heard the most from the veterans of 1940 is that they never saw one single french plane in the entire war

There's an interesting parallel between the 'Stuka myth' and the overstated effectiveness of Allied Tactical Air Forces in North Western Europe in 1944-45: the 'Jabo Myth' perhaps? Both with their principal effectiveness on morale rather than 'kills'...?

8:45, "Fast and Fuhrious"...hilarious... ;>)

The Stuka became obsolete by 1943 and was outclassed by the Ilyushin IL-2 Sturmovik, also known as the "flying tank" because of its durability.

Artillery only!

oh my goodness, thank you for that screenshot! I was kinda depressed about my 800 hours of pubg, thinking of all the stuff i couldve done.. and then your count - really calmed me down (:

Offcourse, even the werchmact created the first versions of what is currently known in the US airforce as "Tactical Air Control Party " or TACPs

So, bombardment from artillery & bombers. Then move using fire & moment, flank the enemy & occupy the enemy position.

I like the Fokker Triplane at 5:00...

The Ha137 would have been an interesting alternative to the JU87. It was more nimble and needed less top cover, and had a heavier armament of two 20mm cannon.

any possibility of you using more War Thunder shots in your videos? they accompany the dialogue beautifully, especially the Stukas

Very informative and interesting. Who creates all the little icons you use in your videos? They are very well done.

Do artillery only at 400,00 subscribers.

The soviets be like: "STUKA BLYAT!"

Can you please make a video about czechoslovakia opposing munich, I would like to see the numbers and hear your opinion on this topic. If there was possibility for czechoslovakia to defend it self, or at least hurt gemany so much that allies would be eager to take an action.

Great video! One complaint: the War Thunder clips you used were somewhat distracting because of the view that changed every second or so. I recommend that you use a similar tactic to what is done for IL-2: 1946-- One constant video as opposed to 5 rapid-fire action-packed clips.

Can you do a follow up video on why a CAS was significantly more effective during the Vietnam war

Excellent video! My only remaining question is what was the ground to air coordination like in the North Africa campaign? Differences and similarities to the Eastern Front, etc.

I saw in one black-white documentary/chronicles where one Luftwaffe aircraft on horizontal low level bombing putted a bomb direct in the open top vehicle in the (?)Poland.

If only War Thunder would get the armor penetration power of AP shells right. Soviet shells are severely overperforming in penetration against thick flat armor. AP shells in general are underperforming against high obliquity armor and then theres the unrealistic damage effect of APHE shells. All things combined makes for some really stupid matches where Centurion Mk IIIs fight alongside Tiger II Hs and rated inferior than a Panther II with an 88mm gun and T-54s fight on the same rating as M48s which they shouldn't even be able to penetrate unless with their improved BR-412D APCBC shell. Instead of making the game more realistic they just add more and more vehicles which makes it more and more harder to change anything without completely screwing over the match making and gameplay.

An internal instruction from the panzer divisions: If the plane drops bomb into the sea, it is the British. If the plane drops bomb into the field, it is the Americans. If the plane drops bomb right onto your own tank, it is the Luftwaffe.

Have you considered making a video on the military situation of India, doctrine, and future plans as of 2018?

Ohh the memories... you know how many times I was asked if it was safe or not? I always said I had no clue, but it was going to be fun anyway. On another note, A-10 CAS in the recent Middle East campaigns fully support the suprise box icon.

Interesting. When they had the numbers to take advantage of good coordination, the communications technology and utilization (doctrine) wasn't capable of it. When the tech and utilization caught up, the numbers were no longer there to take advantage of it. Nicely presented.

The role of Stukas in Spain has been a hot topic for a few months, even getting some media atention. Basically it has been argued by some historians that they were involved in a secret experiment involving non military targets. It has also been proposed that they simply were operations to disrupt the enemy's supply lines and that this experiment theory is just a political move, which is probably true.

Hans Ulrich Rudel seems to have made a pretty mean impact with his Stuka...lol.....my Stuka ace hero!!!!!

Stukas were origanlly designed to be flaying artillary and were called up in the same way...they did not really comunicate with tanks as flags draped on tanks proves...the actual concept of all arm attacks was first devised by the British in WW1, Rawlinson and Monash used it at Hamel then later at Amiens to destroy the German army with few casulties ( www.convictcreations.com/history/monash.html )....after the war it was forgotten by most of the allies...but not the tank men....Fuller (British) and particularly Guderian (German)....the first effective use of Blitzkreig was EXACTLY 100 YEARS AGO as i type this.

Taking a deep dive...nice pun there good sir :)

Were the "identification devices" on the panzers limited to visual signs like flags and symbols? Couldn't ground forces designate targets with smoke?

The warthunder video footage really added to the video, turn up your visual settings though lol.

morale present in Company of Heroes 2. i've won matches where the opponent had far greater advantage than me, but i kept pressuring them and hitting them at all angles with my much smaller army. after overwhelming them they surrender.

When Rainbow Dash popped up at around 13:25 I just about died laughing. So much thank you for that.

Why was the stuka never replaced.

_jericho trumpets getting louder_

I'm just waiting on War Thunder to add in Infantry roles and I'd have the perfect Second Thirty Years War game.

Always interesting, thank you.

Can we get an artillery only video?

Anyone interested in Stuka stuff should read "Memoirs of a Stuka Pilot" by Helmut Mahlke. Rudel's book gets all the glory. But Mahlke's book was more informative in many ways.

Just like all air forces Luftwaffe was poor destroying enemy armor. Even German own studies of French armor hulks of 1940 proved that just 2% of French armor COMBAT losses were caused by Luftwaffe including bombers too. In Eastern Front there was similar 2% share for aircraft when destroyed tanks have been studied. In short: WW2 ground attack aircraft and dive bombers were rather poor destroying enemy armor. Western Allied studies in Normandy proved it too. Instead of 1,500 German AFVs Allied ground attack pilots destroyed hardly more than 80.

*Amazing vid. thanks for letting us know!!!*

I think it would be a cool video idea when you follow this here up with a comparison to the modern world. like how CAS was used in vietnam or today.

How effective was the Stuka as a tank killer?

Also it is important to highlight that soviet soldiers did not pee in their paints, like the French, when the Stuka siren was on. Rather the contrary:they would look and shoot at it!

One thing i dont understand is that wouldnt the pilots recognise thier own tanks?

1:29 Didn't they use the Henschel Hs 123 in Spain as a ground attack aircraft? Did the Luftwaffe come to any conclusions as a consequence of their use?

Wasn't there widespread use of captured Czech tanks by the Germans in the early stages of the war. I remember reading it somewhere but I'm not sure.

I want to get a Stuka and do this over my neighborhood

That was excellent information.

How come they didnt simply use colored smoke grenades to identify enemies and friendlies ? Drop one blue smoke at friendlies and shoot a red smoke grenade at whatever target you want stukas to deal with. Would make iff and target localisation simple for air units.

3:45 "Präcision" värry gut Inglisch! ;)

0:49 I saw what you did there

Hey have you heard about the artillery only meme? How do you think a real battle fought only with artilley guns would be? Has this ever happened in real life?

Got an ad for World of Tanks on this video lol

A non sponsored review of war thunder doesn't exist. Change my mind.

Do Germany still build those stukas with their Jericho trumpet?

"Panzer Forces Fast and Führious" Very accurate.