Hey James. I worked at a BMW dealer for 4 years, and both the thermostat and the coolant pumps were high failure items. The coolant pumps would fail intermittently like you experienced, or they would completely fail. When they failed completely you would know right away because the coolant fan would kick on high at all times as a fail safe. as far as the thermostat goes, from my understanding the heating element was there so that the DME could open the thermostat whenever it wanted for more control of operating temp. Also, with those coolant pumps you can perform the bleeding procedure from inside the vehicle, set the blower to its lowest setting, set the temp controls to highest heat, and press the accelerator for 15 seconds. The coolant pump will then bleed the system for about 10 minutes. Good video of the wave forms.
360quickshot Hey bud I have a quick question for you? During your time working at the bmw dealer have you ever come across a water pump that would stream water for 2 seconds stop for 2 seconds stream for 2 seconds and stop for 2 seconds consistently? Is this a clear sign of a failing water pump? Thanks.
You did right in replacing that pump. It was on it's way out for sure. The signal was crap, and it just didn't sound right. When you see enough of these, you can just tell by ear that pump is dying. The BSD is simply BMW's name for a canbus signal. Several components communicate on this circuit including the water pump, and alternator. Each component has the ability to run self tests, and report back to the DME. Any communication codes specific to a component, is usually the component telling you "Hey change me I'm bad." The thermostat is a two stage deal where it only opens so far mechanically, but has an electrical assist that opens it further if needed. Think of it as a two speed fan low/high dependent on cooling needs. It's mostly for emission purposes. The codes for battery voltage could be a failing battery safety terminal (BST) or an intelligent battery system module (IBS). Typically, these are either damaged, or left disconnected when changing a battery. The BST is a safety device built into the positive terminal designed to disconnect the battery in an accident. It is gas charged, and known to fail with time, causing a poor battery connection, and faults in the power management system or PMS. As you can imagine, this is a running joke amongst us BMW techs. "Customer replaced battery, car has PMS faults." Finally, all N5x 6 cylinders are notorious leakers from the front crank seal. Based on how caked in grime and oil that water pump was, and the surrounding environment, it's safe to say this was the case here yet again. Great video, and great job diagnosing!
Just seen this, your attention to detail and self learning /understanding/testing/diagnosis/comparing old v new is brilliant. This vlog was the best I've seen regards notorious BMW elec pump failure. Thanks for sharing. :-)
Awesome Danner, I have never run across one of those but it seems all the OEM'S are going electric. Getting reliable info is almost impossible to get on newer systems. FYI - your older brother just started a diagnostic forum on the Scannerdanner channel-so now you can access a top notch data base of like minded individuals. Way better than Google :) Thanks For showing this.
Did the new water pump motor sound different than the old one? Did it make the same spooling up noise? Just curious if the tone was different to your ear.
James, thanks for giving some insight to what mechanics experience with this problem. I had a similar problem and wish I had the cool gadgets you used in diagnosing the problem. As a shadetree mechanic, I just swapped out the parts and everything ran like new. Your video really helped me understand and work through my problem. Thanks.
+Oh ok thanks for the feedback. When I did that one, customer wanted BMW parts. Since then, my used car guy customer sourced oe type stuff online for a fraction of the cost. Just depends how much time u have. Not too bad of a job to do
James, I have a 2007 BMW X3 and believe my over heating issue is due to bad water pump but the auto bleeding system works. Is it possible the higher speed no longer works on my pump and when the car is running at normal temp conditions I don't have enough of the high speed to get coolant to circulate as I have no heat as well? I did replace the thermostat. Still overheating persists. My X3 has 153K miles on it and I bought it around 77K mi and don't know if the water pump was replaced with the first owner.
Hey JD..Thank you for putting this up. 2006 530i Have random overheat issues as well. cruising on the highway and then DING overheat.! What I did take note was, I lost the heat and a sound change in the defrost before the warning. Turn ignition off and restart the car and heat comes back and all is good for a while about 15 miles. My limp home of 60 + miles on Christmas Day. WOW.. what fun with the family with me too. Just glad I made it home. Anyways, broke out the Verus (BTW, codes 2E84 and 2E85) and I too had the same kind of weird drop outs as you. I didn't think it was normal so I looked around to see if someone else had a waveform. SO glad I found you video. It Helped me to go forward on ordering up the parts. OEM parts from AMAZON..best deal with a warranty I could find..better than my dealer discount from the Stealerships too. Thanks again and keep up on the videos.
+exmotorsports what was the brand? Turns out now Dorman is making these . But I got a reman on another car i had purely for availability. And it worked but the signal wire circuit was bad and set a code. Ugh. Had to do it again . But at least they gave me a new one for the same price.
Hey James D.. Lol, just dawned on me there. Sorry. The pump was a OEM manufacture "new" Pierburg and I went with a Mayle Thermostat since I've had great luck using them in Mercedes. Funny thing is, I just finally got around to installing them this last Saturday too...HAPPY to say it all went smoothly and all works great. The Verus was able to control this one for priming the system and believe me, when I heard that pump spool up at 95% I was one happy guy. As that was the problem with the factory one, NO communication at all. Stupid thing would just run randomly too as I found out. Even with the car off. Kinda explains the worn down battery in the mornings as it would just run whenever it wanted too. Anyhow.. Here,s the link to amazon and the actual supplier too. All tho originally it was from Import Parts Depot. but its the same price. (: Good luck and Keep them vids rolling, love watching you guy's Later www.amazon.com/gp/product/B007PFZLZW/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
exmotorsports hey bud quick question when your pump was failing did you get the same intermittent 2 second stream 2 second stop 2 second stream 2 second stop over and over again? That's what's happening with my pump. I'm not sure if this pump is already an aftermarket, and if that's the way an aftermarket is supposed to act during the bleeding procedure. And it goes way past the 12 minutes that everyone says it should take. After about 20 minutes or so I just go on ahead and stop the procedure. funny thing though while the engine is running I get a steady consistent non-stop stream.
Hey cruznfl340, With the bad pump it would do that whenever it wanted with KOEO. The PCM had no communication with the pump so I couldn't manually or scan tool bi-directionally control to put it into a bleed process. Also It seem to only want to run at maybe 40 to 50 percent as well. Even while the car was running. If I remember that was how the new pump would act during the bleeding cycle the ON and Off for 2 seconds but it did stop within that 12 minute window. So it sounds about normal other than the extended cycle time. Hope that helps and best of luck too.
exmotorsports It seems the further I dig into it the more conflicting responses I get back. Thanks for the reply though. I'll just have to take it to a BMW specialist around my house and wish for the best and bend over and prepare for the worst😣
Hey Danner, great video. Your last test on the old pump showed less current draw compared to the first test on it. There was no water around the impellor on the last test hence no load = less current draw. Thanks for waveforms. About to check a 335I pump today.
Hi james the hash u see on the waveforms peaks of the new pump amp draw signal is caused by the commutators not being properly bedded in yet, they will disappear as the brushes wear in thanks for great work cheers sandy
The consensus with these pumps is that the electronics within that control the pump fail, or slowly degrade from heat. The motor and impeller are actually really robust.
I purchased a BMW specific scan tool mainly for checking water pump communications codes. I run a quick scan before every long road trip. These cars usually throw warning codes prior to the actual failure happening. It's good own something like a Carsoft BM910 scanner at the very least.
Shane Sexton Until it breaks. They have boosted their sales on their cheaper trims, but their quality has gone down. Depreciation is inevitable as more plebs are able to obtain them. I would get a Porsche if I had the money which I am sure any BMW can.
+zhbvenkhoReload I do wish that the Japanese could make a car that has the BMW ride quality, and precision aswell as attention to detail. Not to mention, for what it's worth.. BMW has one hell of a brand image.
I wonder if replacing the electrolytic capacitor you can see at 17:25 would fix the problem. Electrolytic capacitors are a culprit in many an electronic device and especially prone to failure at higher temperature.
Too bad he didn't show the top of the capacitor. In this video, the videographer found that the capacitor's leg terminal broke off: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-wkrybYCnc7w.html The inductor suggests that there's a voltage buck circuit to manage RPM. I'm starting to think these pumps could all be fixed when they fail for a few cents. The parts manufacturers are laughing their way to the bank.
yea it looks like all CAN communication between pump and module and module to ecm. it wasn't bad to do. whole bunch of 1&1/2 inch hoses in and out of that and the thermostat conglomeration. it just bolts to the engine block for support.
Thanks James very informative , I ran the 10 second start the pump with the pedal and it streams into overflow tank for 2 to 3 seconds then drops of then flows again. Would that be consistent with the scale your showing us here? Also in your working with the water pump problems do you come across very many dead battery's when the water pump goes. I saw the battery dead on video and wondering how these two relate. Thanks again for the video
+Blake Green it's been awhile ,but I think the new one ran consistently. Unless u had air in the system. I killed the battery during testing. Plus it was weak due to sitting for like a year at a body shop
Great video! You defiantly had a drop out on the first pump. It looked ugly. I could see the car running hot till it hit a bump to turn pump on. If I took a good guess the amp current is low till the pump builds up pressure, then starts needing more amp. Unlike fuel pumps that are under constant pressure. So you don't see a sudden increase in amps. Just my thoughts
i believe there are 4 wires that go to the water pump. 2 heavy gauge wires 2 thin wires for the lin bus. i have found that thesmall wires get cooked and cause communication codes. i learned this the hardway by putting a water pump in with out thouroghly checking the wires
Thanks James love the work with the vantage pro and solus pro helps me get better with my mine was wondering if the bsd signal is monitored signal by the computer to set code for water pump
Can you please help... I have a BMW 2014 X3 F25 the Electric Water Pump Bleeding was working fine twice. Then, it stop after I used the Blue Devil Head Gasket Sealer. The Engine getting hot. So, I changed the Thermostat and clean out the Reservoir Tank. Same issue. Should I change the Water Pump? Is there fuse that I should check? I got 3 Codes: 1) CD9010 LIN, Message: Electric Coolant Pump: Missing. DTC Status: Current 2) 1A2004 Electric Fan, Actuating Wire: Line Disconnection DTC Status: Current 3) 1A2002 Electric Fan, Actuating Wire: Short Circuit to Ground DTC Status: Current Please help :) Thank you & God Bless
Electric water pumps are such a mistake. No good reason to do this IMO. You would think an ohm test with known values could diagnose the problem because this isn't something you want to guess at. Man that engine is hideous.
helloo, i from ontario california, I have a bmw 328i 2007, I changed the water pump and the thermostat and the pump does not work and they did the update and they checked the fuses and the plates that it has in the battery and nothing does not want to work the water pump, what do you think could be the problem ???? thanks and very explicit your video !!!
There is an auto bleed function. If u turn key on but dont start it and hold the gas pedal to the floor for 10 seconds it should run on and off for 10 minutes or so
Wassup Danner? Thanks for another great trouble shooting video, your the man when it comes to scanner operation. One day you guys should have a battle ScannerDanner VS James Danner lol. Just kidding.
why do i only have 2 volts on main wire to water pump with car running cant get pump to come on driving me crazy ive replaced pump thermostat and fuses are gd and that self bleed dont work
"Faith is the acceptance of the truth of a statement in spite of insufficient or contradictory evidence. Faith is a cop-out. If the only way you can accept an assertion is by faith, then you are conceding that it can be taken on it's own merits." Dan Barker, former evangelical minister.
Faith, in the sense of which I am here using the word, is the art of holding on to things your reason has once accepted, in spite of your changing moods. C.S. Lewis...mere Christianity.. a good book.......same dude..."now that I am a Christian, I do have moods in which the whole thing looks very improbable : but when I was an atheist, I had moods in which Christianity looked terribly probable ....
Here is a good one....Supposing there was no intelligence behind the universe, No creative mind. in that case, nobody designed my brain for the purpose of thinking. it is nearly that when the atoms inside my skull happen, for physical or chemical reasons, to arrange themselves in a certain way, this gives me, as a by-product, the sensation I call thought. but if so, how can I trust my own thinking to be true? it's like upsetting a milk jug and hoping that the way it splashes itself will give you a map of London, but if I can't trust my own thinking, of course I can't trust the arguments leading to atheism, and therefore have no reason to be an atheist, or anything else. unless I believe in God, I cannot believe in thought .so I can never use thought to dis believe in God.
We can do this until you start making these kinds of comments. "Here is a great one for you and your almighty fantastic God" There will be a point that my brother and I will no longer engage you and that is when you start to speak of our God in this way. You do not need to believe and you can share your hatred of Him without being offensive. I will not attack your beliefs in this way and I ask that you do the same. Or we are done.
my stupid brother has two bimmers & I won't go near them. they do everything differently. seriously, send it to the local bimmer specialist. the learning curve is just too steep. my 2 cents.
4 года назад
This is true, but until you drive a BMW you wont understand.
Not a tech here ..just a home bmw wrencher .but it looks like a diode popped on the old h2o pump and you have a kind of AC signal..????? bmw z4 and e70 diesel burner in my yard. buy some bmw diesel parts...they will MT your bank account. .man o'man.
I've had others comment about the signal so I tore the pump apart and it is a brushless motor . Looks like 3 circuits. and a circuit board. was new to me. thanks for participating
I don't do the pricing. I just fix them. however I may have rounded up too excessively. but with the prices of BMW direct parts. water pump, thermostat assy, aluminum bolts, even antifreeze. it was definitely well over 1000 with labor.plus I'm not sure if I showed it in the video but we also did a belt tensioner that failed and kept throwing the belt. cars aren't cheap. thanks for participating
Really, it should not cost near that. Maybe if you go through a BMW dealer, but you can get a thermostat and coolant pump for this the N52 engines for about $350 online and then install it yourself or have an independent shop do it for $70/hr and it's about a 4 hour job (accordnig to shops around me). Honestly, I'm not that experienced, but managed to do this procedure by following the service manual. I think I actually prefer the electric pumps after doing this because it can bleed itself and no belts to have to deal with. They do have their draw backs, however.
2008 BMW 328xi 6 Cylinders 3.0L FI DOHC 182 CID VIN: WBAVC935X8K043797 Hello i use a snap on modis and the pump is working its just throwing code 2E85 , the pigtail provided was soldered and waterproof heat shrink applied , the oe pump was removed do to leaking at housing , my prescan before the job showed no codes on ecm modual , the live data shows rpm, and bifunctional allows me to control rpm, im really confused any help is very much appreciated , thank you also the bleeding cycle worked correctly which is also confusing everything seems to be working just stupid ecm light on with code 2e85, also my alldata dosent list 2E85 code, I Replaced pump and therm and code still here, can you help no recall, 2008 328xi n52/ thank you regardless
Hey Danner, great video. Your last test on the old pump showed less current draw compared to the first test on it. There was no water around the impellor on the last test hence no load = less current draw. Thanks for waveforms. About to check a 335I pump today.
