Bob Dutko and Aron Ra: Debate 

He really shouldn’t. He would hoodwink his clients there too.

Come on man, the Christian clearly won this debate😂

@@kamdelmonte7349 oh for Christ's sake.

What is more plausible Melina? A universe that came into existence by design or a universe that came into being by chance? If you think niether then by what other means?

@@oldgordo61 Second, because there is no empirical evidence of this designer.

@@juanjoyaborja.3054 No evidence that all that exists came from nothing. Nor is possible for something to come from nothing.

You believe humans are talking animals.

You believe animals are talking animals and nothing creates things.

What is the definition of supernatural? Go and look. Come back and paste it here.

@@frosty_soda Gather evidence for the existence of anything "supernatural" and come back and paste it here.

Are you kidding me?🤣I thought atheist really were scientific now i think they’re just being emotional.

Dutko won this debate easily.

He was definitely one of the weaker apologists on youtube. Completely science illiterate.

What point did he miss??? Aron ra was asked a very specific question and he failed to answer. Your athiest hero got destroyed. Cry all you want.

​@@patrickosmium733 You have 0 science to support your ape fairy evo religion. Sorry bud.

​@@kamdelmonte7349God belief is an assertion, there literally no evidence. Probability is evidence based. No evidence for a God, even less for a Christian one.

@@miguelquintana8076 good for you

I can’t believe you have the patience to deal with there’s apologist morons that are totally disengenuous

This guy has one argument. We don’t know how this all started therefore god

Lame

I want to puke

@@RonAlexander-sr5hp it’s not really necessary to ask more questions if you atheists can’t answer that one question.

The fool says there is no God. Hypotheses and theories are all good and fine but they cannot be tested empiracally same for God. And physics break down prior to the Planck Time the earliest period where anything like Time and Physics have any meaning. If the Universe has a beginning then it must have a Cause and physics is just not able to able to explain what that Cause is. So a super intelligence that can exist outside Time and Space is just as plausible.

@@oldgordo61 I'll start by saying that no one knows if there is or isn't any god (I am talking about deistic one) To our knowledge time and space are not some magical powers, they are properties of reality. You can't have time without having a matter/energy to change. While with space it is harder as we never observed empty space. So claiming that something is outside of it is dishonest when you don't try to understand what you are talking about and that it would be logically impossible (in this case, due to time) About the cause. That would be obvious, but like I said before, there are many hypothesis. For example big bounce hypothesis being true would mean that there is no beginning to universe. Matter from energy has eternal quantum field as a starter for universe which also doesn't deal with overall beginning. And there are more. But just those 2 are enough for us to see that god isn't needed. Due to planck time physics don't break down, they don't stop working, but due to our capabilities we just can't measure as majority of universe would be nearly in one dot.

@@dariusnoname12 When scientists try to go further back before Plank Time they find that physics lose all meaning. They believe all forces of nature including gravity are unified and gravity separates just after that. But our minds as amazing as human intelligence is limited and we probably understand less than a percentage of reality itself. As for Space itself it actually has properties. It is also connected with Time. The closest analogy to describe space is liken to a fabric that stretches and warps the more mass an object especially a supermassive lack hole distorts the area around it. But even very small masses such as ourselves can affect the spacetime fabric as we move about but the effects are too tiny to be detected by instraments. Black Holes colliding creating gravity waves which are literally ripples of spacetime like a shock wave after a bomb goes off have been recently detected. As for the quantum field scientists don't understand quantum mechanics enough to say for any certainty that quantum fields even work let alone to say they have always existed. Even if they did that doesn't prove that a super intellegence isn't needed. Even among the most skeptical of scientists when it comes to God or Intelligent Designer concede the Universe and the forces of nature that keep it going reality is behaving as if it is being guided by something. Another powerful evidence for Inteligent Design is DNA itself the very blueprint for life itself. How did the code of life which is far more complex than anything designed by humans put itself together by mindless unguided natural processes? Order and structure cannot come from chaos without some force or being guiding it. the fact that the force needed to kickstart the inflationary period just after Planck Time had to be so precise that even if the tiniest deviation had occured there would have been no realty to speak of thus we wouldn't be here to discuss this topic. Too much inflation and realty would have ripped itself apart before it got started too little rate of inflation and the emerging reality would have collapsed on itself.

His "so called God" is the One who created the universe, the One who created you, you should be thanking Him for giving you life, not trying to turn others away from God, I'll be praying for you, unless you do not want me to

Thats a crazy argument and you know it. God is eternal He was not created. He has no beginning He has no end. God didnt come from “nothing”

@@Your_Daily_Scrollthe other side can easily argue “universe was not created, it has no beginning or no end. It didn’t come from nothing” the whole convo is a crazy argument to even argue and YOU know it lol

@@jessiec4768 if thats the case then God is real….

But but but muh special pleading

Alex Meyer Do you believe it would be magic? Or could it be eons ( to us) of careful thought from a mind so unlike our mere nuts and bolts, that figured out what had to be done to cause all things to happen, so precisely, just to enable our pitiful existence.

How ? Dutko literally said his position is correct cause God can defy the laws of Physics, pretty sure that counts.

@@WeirdWonderful you defy the laws of physics all day long. You can cause a fork to hover over a plate. It is unnatural for forks to hover over a plate. But it hovers because you apply a greater force to it than gravity. Overriding the laws of physics isn’t as unusual as you think. You have a thought in your mind, and make a choice-a non physical thing-and then by your will you exert force in the universe to change the course of events for objects. But God just has a more direct method of applying force to accomplish his will. You have a convoluted arrangement of muscles and nerves. He can have direct control. We call it magic when humans attempt direct control of physical objects by will. It is unnatural for us. But I can’t see how it could be unnatural for the being who thought of a universe and it appeared by direct force, to then move a few measly molecules by direct force. For him it would be the natural, not unnatural, method. What was unnatural was the incarnation, when he became man to live inside the universe.

@@Cre8tvMG that has to be the dumbest thing I’ve ever read … lifting a fork defies physics? You do realize that force within the realm of physics, right? How about you let go of that fork and see where it goes? I’ve honestly never read anything so stupid.

sparkyy0007 yeah Aron wants to believe in things like cladiograms and taxonomy which prove absolutely nothing. All he can do is argue those

He has two Achilles heels. The other is reality.

Dutko is King... Of the men of straw.

Time stamp?

There is not a time stamp^ Cause he lied.. aron didnt say anything like that

In other words, I don’t know, I just know a magic spaghetti monster wasn’t involved.

@@jlankford I know magic spaghetti monster wasn't involved. But God definitely was.

@@frosty_soda you’re right about God being involved. But it would be cool if there was a spaghetti monster , he sounds tasty.

Because everything cannot come from nothing - science.

He doesn't. Nobody thinks God came into existence.

@@lizzard13666 If God could have always existed why couldn't the universe have always existed?

@@dougreformed8956 If everything cannot come from nothing, how can God come from nothing?

@@dpg227 what makes you think God came from anything? tell me how matter can exist when it didn't exist before without a miracle

Dude, Jesus Himself refers to Himself as a male in the Bible, when He talked about the Trinity, God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit, also, there is proof of God all around us, he answers prayers, though He may not answer them how we want Him to, He answers them how He sees best, and there is nature all around us, animals that are too complex to have evolved from nothing, and yet you do not except it

​@@SusanaBergen-wo9luDid you just use the "Look at the trees" as evidence?

You think Aron is smarter or a better debater than RJ Downard or Dr. Stefan Frello? And this debate isn't cut up. This is the full debate?

Standing for Nonsense, No, Not better, just different. Not sure why you are so afraid to read your script to him when you so freely choose to read your script to those other people. RJ does an awesome job of asking pertinent questions for you dodge and refuse to answer. I am sure that Aron would do the same.

@@chrisbay6672 That was my point. I have debated anybody who has been willing. We are in the works at putting together a debate between myself and Aron now that Aron has agreed to structured debates. And I couldn't be more excited.

Standing for Nonsense, I understood your point which is why I said I didn't understand that you were so afraid to read your script to Aron since you don't mind reading it to others. Saying that you are setting up a debate doesn't mean anything until you show up rather than coming up with some lame excuse like you have for every other debate that you have set up with Aron in the past.

Chrissy Bay Do you always whine so much? Please leave fewer comments. It bothers us.

LOL

I thought that was quite funny also.

I suggest you get the wax out and listen to this again...Ra did not say that Krause doesn't understand anything, as you think he did, he's saying that Krause understands 'nothing', i.e. the concept of nothingness...seriously? you people should be very embarrassed and ashamed of how little you listen and actually understand[your own language]anything and/or your total intellectual dishonesty...You're stupid is showing.

@@dmac8949 OH brother. You have no sense of humor! Classic armchair atheist: get offended at a joke. Of course I know what he meant about understanding the concept of nothingness (though that is almost an incoherent phrase unless you redefine nothingness to be somethingness, as Krauss does). I just thought his phrasing was ironically comical. Grow up a bit and have some fun. Even if it means laughing at Krause. :-)

@@dmac8949 ha ha ha ha, a little sensitive buddy.

Maybe that's why man came up with religions in the first place. Even if it's hard to disprove the existence of a creator, people will tend to cling to the stories they've been told from an early age anyway. Still leaves a ton of unanswered questions. Love your name btw :-)

That is exactly what he does and he thinks he's quite clever. But if he's confronted with someone who knows his/her stuff and is well aware of the word games atheists like AronRa play they can be easily refuted. AronRa has gone record in many of his videos stating God does not exist and he knows he has but he is not willing to back it up with evidence that supports his position.

Word games… precisely what Christians like to play because they really don’t get the English language.

​@@oldgordo61Aron Ra backs up his position when he is allowed to speak. Dutko's constant straw men were embarrassing and irritating to hear and then he refused to acknowledge Aron's answers. If Dutko thinks he's a great debater he's delusional.

He is wrong because the facts of reality contradict his assertions. You cannot always put out the fires of misinformation at the same rate they are lit. But that does not mean that the actual truth because something other than what it is.

God can't figure out the things that man has made. God can't make buildings, trains, locks, keys, even though he's omniscient and omnipotent.

Huh?

Just saw your comment. Hilarious

And yet believes nothing can create something.

😂🤣😂🤣😂

Hahaha this is how misconceptions are formed 😂

​@@oldgordo61Not really. You need to listen to what he actually says.

No one cares about the fallacy police anymore its old now just stick to reasonable argument and fallacies want be a thing. God created the laws of physics when He created mass and space. In the naturalistic worldview matter and space came into existence *contrary* to the laws of physics

@@dougreformed8956 Truly there are no fallacies in the argument that is actually reasonable. As far as I know, humanity doesn't as of yet have a definitive answer to how space and matter came to be in the first place. The theory of cosmic inflation (aka the big bang) only shows that space and matter expanded from a rather compact point by pointing to the fact that space itself is still expanding. The radiation patterns across the cosmos we could expect if this was the case have already been mapped through the Hubble telescope. Just google "the microwave cosmic background radiation" and look it up for yourself. So sorry, your misunderstanding of science is not an argument against it, try harder or take a break. Until you can prove God, appealing to him as an explanation instead of having the intellectual honesty to utter the words "I don't know" still constitutes a god of the gaps fallacy and before you can prove any sort of god or other such magical/supernatural entity you obviously would have to prove that magic/the supernatural is real.

@@basementdweller100 You accuse me of misquoting the man when the exact same words in that exact order touch the ear upon clicking my time stamp. You would have a point if what he said immediately after would provide further context that would change or clarify the meaning of the words I quoted. However, "he can operate outside of them" is still a cope-out excuse, it's still a baseless assertion just like "God is consistent with the laws of physics because God doesn't have to obey the laws of physics." Still special pleading, still non-sequitur. Complaining of my reasoning simply because you don't agree with it on the basis of a demonstrably false accusation followed by an ad-hominem attack is a refutation in no way, no shape, no form. Try again when you got something to say and not when you just got to say something.

Kenichi Otaku you miss the point. If something began to exist, it means there was a time when it didn't exist. The laws of science dictate that it is impossible for something to come into existence by itself. Therefore it must have had a cause. The athiest will say "I don't know what that cause is, but it isn't God" the Christian will say "well God said He did it so I believe Him" the Christians view isn't a God of the gaps at all because there was no gap to begin with whereas the athiests view is the creation of a gap because they purposely leave God out.

@@dougreformed8956 The average atheist would stop at "I don't know" while the theists pretends to know it's because of God because people in ancient times wrote a collection of books in which they said so. And you're claiming I miss the point when you aren't on point yourself. You assume that everything must have come from somewhere or from something else, yet you don't apply the same logic to God as if he isn't something (as opposed to nothing). But you have an excuse, He's supernatural so check mate naturalism, right? How about taking a break from the special pleading to demonstrate the supernatural itself is even a thing in the first place? Till then, throwing an item under the influence of gravity 1000 times will cause it to hit the ground 1000 times making me think the same result will turn out if I do it 1000 more times. Based on the very same principle, I am going to think that the explanation for all current unknowns is going to turn out natural because each time men have come up with a supernatural explanation they were wrong.

God isn't part of the universe he created the universe. Therefore the laws don't apply to him but to the universe. While he says all things overtime get better and more complex mater and energy can create itself.

i'm gong to appeal to common sense. a creation cannot exist before that very thing gets created. thats just illogical. God being the creator of such laws of physics meaning he existed before such laws existed, would be doing everything he does regardless of those laws in the first place before he created such laws so its not that God defies the laws of physics as he is already in action before such laws even exited but instead he is simply controlling his creation. its like this. when creating a video game up decided what how gravity works in the gam. you either remove gravity of you apply it. you are simply controlling the universe you create not defying it.

@@pedronavarro1494 Well it's an utterly dishonest tactic to claim science is somehow unscientific because it supposedly breaks physical laws, but theism IS scientific because their god can just make those laws temporarily not work, and somehow acting in ways that contradict the laws of physics becomes an act of being in accordance with them !

​@@maow9240if you believe a God always existed! Why can you not believe a universe always existed? Because we know for a fact that the universe Is real but it's not been proven that a god is real! So until it's proven that God actually exists why go there? I know it sounds strange to say all materials and matter had always existed but it's just as crazy as to say a God always existed maybe even more so because we haven't any proof of him but we do have proof of the universe so until God can be proven in the same way then why go that extra step and say he created everything cause ya can't prove he's even a thing like you can the universe!

@@pedronavarro1494 Exactly as I would have put it, but not with all them big words

So your position is basically clapping your hands over your ears and calling the other side a liar? Genius.

Atheism, as I use the term, refers to belief. I do hold a belief in God, but I do not claim absolute knowledge with 100% accuracy. I am an agnostic atheist.

I think this is what I found annoying as well--Bob hit the nail on the head when he said that Ra sort of refuses to use the word "believe" and he is playing a semantics game. If you have a belief on God one way or the other, you believe "something" based on the available evidence.

@@popap1995 that's not how we see it. Imagine a jar of jellybeans. Someone says "there are an even number of jelly beans in there." I say "I don't know, I haven't counted them yet." It's not a positive belief one way or another, it is a lack thereof. Ultimately, I cannot prove that a God doesn't exist, but I doubt that he does, and when we get to specific gods, such as the God of the Bible, or Krishna, or Apollo, I will go so far as to say it is highly unlikely that such beings exist, or ever could. It's just mythology, human attempts to explain reality. As our knowledge grows, I find it interesting that religious beliefs tend to change and adapt (or evolve lol).

@@RaceFanDana you're right. I just talked to God. He says your hat is stupid

LOL that is pretty much how it goes here, kudos to the professional Bob Dutko

@@brandonmacey964 dutko is a professional narcissist.

@@Bomtombadi1 lol whaaat!? Do you even know what narcissist means??someone saying God is worth praise and worship cannot be a narcissist…a narcissist would be the person saying people are the Gods and we are the most powerful and intelligent beings that’s a self lover..not the person being humble and looking up to a higher Being….smh people learn a new word and abuse it

@@Bomtombadi1 Aron ra is a professional , arrogant narcissist.

@@chucklesdarwinwaswrongevol236 nah, he’s actually a nice guy. He just doesn’t have patience for creationist stupidity.

*If you are an atheist you don't know

@@dougreformed8956 *If you are a scientist, you dont know.

You don't know how the universe was created because you don't want to know its Creator. But He has revealed more than enough about His power, authority, will, and skill that there is no excuse for mistaking Him and His attributes for nature and its attributes.

Yes we do, God created it, in 7 days, it's right there in the first couple chapters of the first book of the Bible, pretty easy to find

I know you think thats what happened.

​@@davidluciano9478that's what happened the whole time.

@Juan Rodriguez-Ortega AA-Ron

Ain't that his name tho?

Hank Aaron ⚾

Yup you heard him right. People resurrect from the dead. We see it all the time. The sun stands still in the sky. We see it all the time. The Red Sea parts so that god can do real estate. Now that one, the last bit we DO see quite a lot of that claim!!!!! Now imagine that. God says "I created the whole universe and I give this bit of it specially to you for you were unfairly driven out of it and no matter how hard I tried I couldn't stop it happening even though I am omnipotent."

Kicked Aron right in the pride and the guy lost it.

Really? Do you understand logic so little? Every time Aron opened his mouth BD would not let him get beyond a couple of words to say anything let alone get the chance to use logic. But that's his and your only defense cut the other person off, and speak over them...I suppose you think that's logic. It's not.

Aron said he doesn't believe the universe came into existence from Nothing and Dutko kept asserting he does for over 20 minutes and saying that doesn't misrepresent Aron's position. How is he being backed into a corner by refusing to champion a position he has repeatedly stated he does NOT hold ?

Man I love it when I get someone filibustered

right... and isn't Bob one of the guys that thinks people and dinosaurs lived together 6000yrs ago?

You mean Bob should take this advice? That would make more sense.

@@BibleResearchTools Matthew 5:22 "And anyone who says, ‘You fool!’ will be in danger of the fire of hell".

@@BibleResearchTools So you may call fellow-humans fool, unless they believe in your personal superstition? That is one of the things I don't like about religion: it divides people. In the good ole days to the level that burning fellow-humans at the stake is the appropriate response to disagreement. Or flying airplanes into skyscrapers. Because of an old book full of fairy tales.

@@BibleResearchTools The difference is I call people fool who are fools, religious or not. I don't discriminate.

Ya, especially when the person he's talking to is interrupting him every 3-4 words and absolutely refusing to let him speak...Dutko is embarrassing himself and you too.

AronRa would be better off working as a crimminal lawyer. Because he's very deceptive with word semantics.

If you actually paid attention, aron ra had a lot more time to speak than Dutko but still lost the debate.

@@BibleResearchTools well... I must be a bad 'evolutionist' then, because I have not gone to evolution church, don't even know what the evolution bible looks like... but I do live in a world of demonstrable facts. I don't believe in evolution... I understand it.

@@BibleResearchTools Correct, I understand evolution and have no need to 'believe' in it. Facts do not require faith. but then that makes me curious if we are using the vernacular of 'believe' or a faith-based definition of 'believe'.

35:40 Dutko literally talks about how HE'S bringing it up lol

No, Dutko literally kept asserting Aron said something which he never said, and then kept trying to make him defend a position he NEVER said he had !

What a poor delusional man you must be...

If you believe he was cornered, you’re a real sucker

No Aron got ambushed by a bunch of strawmen which he was never allowed to refute.

Oh yeah! Because Dutko brings him on to talk about evolution and switches gears to catch him off guard. Brilliant strategy!

Ive watched alot of Aron Ras debates, and everytime he doesnt have an answer for something he "Doesnr believe in that" but never says why.

I mean, atheism is a lack of belief in the general sense. So no, me not believing your god is real can't "fail" because I have to be the one who is necessarily right about what I do and don't find convincing.

dude your stupid god summoned bears to maul kids. slow clap for the slow kids in the back of the class for being gullible

The logic of the bewildered herd

Get this into your head. Science does not use the word proof, because the scientific method is always to maintain a skeptic position and constantly try to disprove the hypothesis. However when every piece of examined evidence supports the hypothesis AS HAS HAPPENED WITH EVOLUTION, then the hypothesis is regarded as a THEORY. Still potentially falsifiable, but the best explanation of reality.

@@jonathanrussell1140 Science doesn’t utilize speculation conjecture assumption assertion imagination or fantasy.

@@JungleJargon no absolutely. Religion does ALL of those.

@@jonathanrussell1140 The reality is that you were created along with everything else and only your Creator can re-create you. Snap out of your object credit giving trance.

🙌🏼

Much more logical 😂😂😂😂. My Straw man is better than your skepticism. Yeah right.

Word Salad 101

It's typical to see the totally arbitrary context of your accusation. No specific example and no demonstration of any error, just another bold claim from just another ignoramus.

How about the facts that Bob's entire position is literally the god of the gaps fallacy, and that Aron recently posted a video reminder of some of Bob's bogus debate claims?

​@@lederereddydon't go there. You will lose.

@@jonathanrussell1140 Back at ya. Except there's no coming back from the end of Aron's dead end delusions.

@@noneofyourbusiness7055 That's a false assertion, nunya! The evidence actually proves the Biblical narrative. It is simple logical and scientific inference to say yes how this universe was created defies random chance assembly and confirms willful, brilliant design and engineering! It is Aron's "evolution of the gaps" assertions that fly in the face of scientific deduction. You atheists laugh at those with the faith to acknowledge the thousands of miraculous things in nature that bear God's signature and dim wittedly ignore the faith you have in the many miracles it would take to create this universe the way atheists say it happened.

Aron Ra has learned that creationists have a lot of reason all the evidence for a young earth and the global flood.

@@JungleJargon And it burns his soul to know it!

@@NephilimFree Yes, we have more reason than they have because all of the reason is on our side.

@subtracted You don't listen very well and you are the one that actually believes in the magical objects of the gaps because evolution is all gap with zero evidence. All you have is speculation, conjecture, assumption, assertion, imagination and fantasy, nothing more. Put up your evidence of getting vast amounts of written instructions that are not there to the tune of billions of bits of viable programming. Your belief is all fantasy with no factual basis whatsoever. You have nothing.

@subtracted We can see there is written instruction inside of every living thing. Instruction can't write itself and you can't use directed things as evidence of no direction. You have no evidence of magical matter writing instruction that is not there.

You believe in literal magic by definition, so don't you go saying someone following hard, testable science is somehow imagining something Mr. "Snakes Can Talk, Giants were real and people can survive days inside of a whale's stomach" :P

No one does at the moment, but we've had a lot of these quandries over the years from volcanoes to the ascent of life on this planet and have always found totally naturalistic explanations.

@@pup1008 Codes don't write themselves. Especially, 4 digit living genetic code.

@@pup1008 that’s nonsense. You found natural explanations because it is part of the natural universe. This is a different question entirely which can only be answered by a god. You atheists really are fools

you realise that thats a logical contradiction? if time began with our universe, or as per our current best model, with the expansion of space time, then saying "before" the expansion of space time is like saying south of the south pole. if time began with this event, how could there have been time before the event? the only logical conlcusion is the event has always been happening. there never was 0. which is also why, our models do not claim t=0 our current understanding of physics breaks down in environments that extreme, science literally couldnt possibly know that yet. so iam interested, cite me the scientific paper explaining our current best model of the big bang that made your claim. iam waiting.

Actually it isn’t, and it’s a fairly large problem in philosophy for everyone. Stanford, section 10. plato.stanford.edu/entries/nothingness/#TheAnyNot

Perhaps there has never been a state of nothingness.

There is a word for nothing as philosophers understand it and a word for nothing as cosmologsts understand it. They aren't the same, but creationists try to pretend they

@subtracted typical ad hom response, no substance, just emotion.

@@royalt3690Because religion is a bad thing and it’s easy to prove.

Another Straw man

yes, we don't know if "nothing," in the literal sense as opposed to how some scientists use it, can exist. There may have been something that has always existed, we simply don't know so don't make assertions you can't demonstrate.

Aron wasn't allowed to say anything to correct the crap Dutko was spouting.