Bonus Drive Thru: Jim Cornette on Why Vince McMahon Hates Tag Teams 

Except they were still the midcard. Always and forever. When did we ever see any if those matches main eventing ppvs?

Neroamee Alucard Also had the APA and Two Cool.

Yeah its weird hearing this take having come from that era and remembering the TLC matches being THE shit lol

@Sam707BFBC Edge got a much bigger push than Christian.

Joseph Scott Usually Rock, Austin, Angle, HHH, Taker, were in main events, hard to break into that

This is what I’ve always assumed was why Vince has never been big on teams. If a team is a top level team you have to pay two guys top level pay compared to one guy top level pay. But even so it doesn’t totally explain it because usually the formula is the main event gets a percentage of the house from the start. For example, I think they’ve said the main event would get like 20% (I don’t remember the percentage) of the pot to pay everybody. And if it was a tag team match that same money for that position of a match just split four ways v two ways. So even then it shouldn’t make a difference. But there’s also the cost to fly double the people to shows compared to one person I guess. But as much as I love Arn I have never totally felt his gripe with how Vince paid them was entirely reasonable. I understand the issue he and Tully took when they realized that they were on pace to make less than they had been when Vince had told them that they’d earn more with him. That part of things I think they were fair to have an issue with since he had told them they’d earn more and they hadn’t been. The aspect where I don’t think they were fully reasonable was expecting him to write them both a check immediately to catch them up on things. As Arn tells it Vince had asked them to let him catch them up and said he would but that they didn’t trust he’d do it and that when he wouldn’t write them each a $50K check to catch them up they turned in their notice. I get why they felt the way they did but to me it would’ve been more reasonable to have given him up until you had to provide the notice to show signs he was making it right. If let’s say you give him a month and it isn’t improving then absolutely given notice but doesn’t feel reasonable to have expected him to just write the checks. But he did fuck them in terms of Tully and how he paid Arn double until he was done to show he could. That part I’ll agree with. But I also did find it a tad silly that anybody took him at his word that they’d make more than they were. To me there’s a reason those contacts had zero guarantee to them - if he truly meant that when he was saying it he’d have been giving you a guarantee over what you’d make like the downsides that eventually came. The existence of him having you sign something with literally zero guarantee to it for me says it all of just how much stock should go into any promise of making more money being anything other than making your new signing excited to come on board. Shitty but realistic sadly.

no, because you have 2 guys you're paying, & if one guy gets hurt, you lost your investment

@Tim draws mental handicaps

This.

Came here for this

NWA too though

Lionel Gentry not for every team. If we’re talking now days then New Day is for an example.

New Day is a three-man stable with a leader (in booking) who's primarily a singles worker.

@@Benwah Kofi has never felt like the leader. He might be the "strongest" competitor, but Big E is the one that stands out almost always, and mostly because Xavier Woods is treated as a comedic afterthought, cuz he is equally charismatic. New Day is a weird stable lol

Vince loves to break up tag teams and also take two random guys and put them together as a team. Rock & Foley, Edge & Orton, Stone Cold & Triple H, Miz & Morrison, Kane & Taker, Jericho & Big Show, Kane & Daniel Bryan, Hulk Hogan & Edge... just to name a few. For every one example of the New Day, Vince has 15 other examples of breaking a successful tag team up & putting together 2 completely random guys and making them be a team.

Well, by his own logic, they became over enough to become individual stars. As much as I disagree with it it's hard to hate on that.

that's what NJPW does. Galores of tag teams and 4-by-4 matches that can include the world champion.

And I say stuff like that worked by "accident". They got over despite WWE creative. I don't believe they were ever intended to become favorites.

IT DOESN'T MATTER WHAT YOU LIKE!!!

Soul of a NERD They’re nostalgia favorites. Nobody liked them at the time. Worst shirt ever: ALWAYS POUNDING ASS

@@guyincognito5706 Nobody?

Pendulum Panda Nobody. Not even someone like you, who likes their own comment.

Well said!

There’s still some managers involved but it’s few and far between. Usually nowadays you only see it when it’s some guy who’s got all the makings of being a top level guy but falls short on the mic. An example would be Heyman was with Brock for a lot of years because Brock was top level at everything besides his promo skills so he had Paul. But then you saw recently he split from Paul and actually was solid doing his own promos when they let him just be himself as a character. Another guy who’s had a manager over recent years has been Lashley who is another one who isn’t the greatest on the mic but checks every other box. But the decline of managers I actually understand. Unless someone really needs one to hit a high level tier I imagine it’s hard to justify the cost to pay a person to be on the road with someone regularly as their manager. Obviously they wouldn’t be making the money they the wrestler would be but it’s a decent chunk of added expense to pay somebody let’s say 2-300K maybe to have that role with a guy. And that cost isn’t gonna be seen as worth it unless the guy they’re with is a top tier guy drawing a lot of money. The company isn’t going to want to pay somebody a six figure check to be with somebody they may see as a mid tier guy I imagine unless they think that having that manager is likely to elevate them substantially to justify the cost. Even when you hear Corny talk about what he and the Midnights made back in the day Corny being with them meant the team cost a third more than it did without him. But Corny was so good and made the unit so much better he was worth that cost. Not sure the company sees things that way too often and hence why it seems to only be for guys who are already high level.

WhatAboutThemApples remember when all titles were on tv and being pushed 😔

Does anyone have a link? Would love to hear JRs take

@West Texas Rain I don't remember "Jerishow" but I think I had gotten tired of the world wrestling ederfation by 2007. That at least is SORT of a name, though indeed a stupid one.

That's mostly in WWE. In Japan, Mexico and even promotions like ROH the tag titles are a big deal

White Male Hell nearly every ppv main event is a damn 3 way or 4 way

It works on percentages. Say the 2 main eventers get paid 6% each, 4 main eventers in a tag match would get 3% each.

The New Age Outlaws

They weren't tag team champs but The Mega Powers were a thing. Plus you have The Power Trip that consisted of Triple H and Austin.

@@robflores3759 tag team. Sucked as singles

He did mention Owen and Davy Boy Smith! Did you not listen ?

Not really true, AWA had amazing teams also.

Let's just say tag teams are a Southern/Midwestern thing, Just not a "northeastern" thing.

Agreed.

Agreed

Agreed

Brian McHugh any relation to Jooooooooooe McHugh?

what year did wwe decide they needed to get rid of jim ross? that is the year wwe went down hill.

OLE SammyOLE lol what?

I definitely agree that a lot of attitude era stuff does not hold up well. At all. But the VKM and Stone Cold story line drove things. The DX/Nation stuff was solid while it lasted. Mankind/Cactus Jack was incredible until Mankind became sort of a parody of himself. There were some excellent feuds like Rock/Triple H that we saw go from lower card, mid card to main event that was fun to watch. Not all of it was terrible.

You are absolutely right but what hehates arewrestling fans

+Sneaker Addiction Attitude erakilled the business . Its calledhotshotting andit always kills business whenever they can't blow themselves up with bombs more than the once

The New Age Outlaws

Ummmm The Free Birds

Angle & Benoit , Los Guerreros , Edge and Mysterio also Jericho and Benoit

Bill and Randy Mulkey say fuck your Ding Dongs. :)

Not top guys. Billy and Dogg were both midcarders

... were pretty lame. Best thing they bring was the introduction...

reason number 2 why TNA was never taken seriously.

tna always mocking wwe every week like the middle child nobody wanted is not how a wrestling promotion should be built. ....oh you didn't know? that material never got over.

Tlc 2009.

Didn’t the 2 man power trip headline a PPV with the tag belts on the line?

Förehead Jönes hahaha

It sounded more like he was coming.

Lololol

Sounded like someone was about to take away his cheeseburger.

🤣 what ?!

And in 2020!

ERIC ARCIERI the hart foundation, the rockers, midnight express, rock n roll express, the British bulldogs are tag teams. Can you tell the difference between what you claimed to be tag teams and what a claimed to be tag teams?

Yeah, but Vince is paying 2 guys instead of one; & a single guy can be a bigger star & draw more crowds & sell merch. & if one guy gets hurt, Vince loses his investment

Nope.

Yes but they weren't established guys in wwe yet when they won those titles.

Teddy Long will use the main event for a "One on One with the Undertaka"!!!

Jas Blench miz and big show. Kane and xpac.

when did bundy tag with andre? wsnt colossal connection andre and haku?

i always hated when they did that! two random guys as a tag team is usually bollocks. i agree with Jim in that the world tag team titles meant much more down south back then.

@@alostlonewolf He's wrong. It was Haku and Andre. Bundy never won a title in the WWF/E.

WWEkis y'all

but they dont. wwe has lost money and popularity since the split

they are coming! :-)

DNAsGhostzHouze During the time they were teaming regularly (2001-ish), they were not on top of the card. Otherwise, they'd only team for a few weeks every few months occasionally, or would feud.

DNAsGhostzHouze BoD isnt gettin a tv time back then

Jack watts new day is over either as heels or faces. The fact that they sell a cereal is just further proof of how over they are

MrGhostVI agreed

Edge and Orton

The Little Shaman Healing The Shield weren't top guys yet, & were only put back together to make Roman get cheered more & possibly turn Dean. Y2AJ lasted like 2 weeks. Owens & Jericho were never true top guys. Neither were Wyatt & Orton. Edge & Orton is an exception. Team Hell NO! were not top guys at the time, Brothers of Destruction were no longer on top when they teamed regularly (2001-ish). Rock 'N' Sock was an exception. Bryan & Punk were not a tag team.

They aren’t proper tag teams they’re just random singles put together, because creative can’t think of anything else

Two Man power trip. HHH and SCSA

All of those except Rocknsock where in a booking vacuum at the time they got put into tag teams