Spoilers for book 1 Can I just say that one of the greatest set up and pay off's is in this book. Locke starts with a "blood payment" to those he got killed. So he has to offer money to the river (or w/e I dont remember specifics) that equal these peoples lives, kids that he got killed. YEARS later his crew is doing amazing, they are super rich, this jack hole kills most of his crew and takes their HUGE stash of money. Later, when 3 of his crew die, and he feels like hes responsible. He tricks the police into destroying the bad guys ship that has all of their money, sinking it and the gold to the bottom of the river. Hence, Locke repaying his blood debt to his crew. This gives me goose bumps thinking about this, it really solidified his love and bond for his crew. I know this is irrelevant for the roast but, its kinda amazing :)
@@ebnovels I have never been able to have favorites because I always see both the positives and negatives of books, movies, people, etc. Wheel of Time, The Witcher, Lies of Locke Lamora, The Dresden Files, LotR, The StormLight Archive. To one degree or another I like all of these but I can always provide a list of things I don't like about them. Does this mean I should have become a book critic?
FINALLY someone talked about curse words in this book. I love Gentlemen bastards series BUT the curse words,drove me crazy. Regardless, I love Locke,Jean. They are so interesting characters. You said Locke is said is not intelligent,he is actually somewhat stupid,I AGREE with you but that's the reason I love Locke so much, sometimes clever,sometimes stupid and just a madman.😂 And NO, I don't think less of any of these 'roasters'
No women?....are you serious with this comment? The women were some of the best characters. You had the pirates daughter, the botanist/ alchemist, the old lady agent(the spider), and finally the references to the lady gentleman bastard who definitely sounds like a badass. These characters came off as the most competent, intelligent and interesting people. Most of the men were idiots so I mean...which gender is really missing out here? lol
I agree that there are women, I think maybe they meant in the main crew? To be fair, though, SPOILERS: Locke “outsmarts” the spider by simply punching her in the face, Jean kills two women who are supposedly incredibly powerful, the one person’s daughter is murdered, and the reference is just that-a reference. That last one doesn’t really count in this first book imo 😅 That said, I don’t think that means the book is sexist or anything.
I think an issue with the character intelligence is that Lokce is extremely intelligent, but he's also an impulsive dumbass. Like, he has the intelligence to pull off some amazing heists, but he has no impulse control in weighing the risks. Spoilers for Republic of Thieves: That's what makes his dynamic with Sabetha so interesting. She is careful, clever and sensible, and will always go for the low risk options. Locke always goes for the high risk options, and while he usually has the intelligence to pull it off, he also never knows when to pull out
For me, the second book added a lot of depth to the friendship between Locke and Jean. I also loved the fact that Locke is not perfect/ kind of an idiot, and that Jean is the more practical/ common sense oriented person. They balance each other out very well.
I don’t mind cussing in general, but throwing modern f-bombs all over a fantasy world really pulls me out of the story. I wish the author had invented cuss words for that world. And yeah the story was boring.
I love this book. However, our local library has it shelved in the children's section. Not YA, CHILDREN'S! Uhhh....I told them they might want to change that and they looked at me like I had an eye stalk. Haha!
Completely get why people would not like the split timeline thing - I personally loved it but I can see that it's a matter of preference. Think the cursing thing is too - f*** isn't just a modern curse word and ASOIAF got me used to it so I don't mind it. What I take issue with is when people say it's boring? It's so fast paced and exciting, there's murder, magic, heists, disguises, bombs, plots and great humour to go with them. I was on the edge of my seat the whole time!
Theres a huge diference between developing a friendship and establishing one. L&J are best friends, that's a fact. The genius of the book is that rather than just telling you they're best friends, the author does so much to PROVE they are best friends. Through the use of flashbacks, call backs and fantastic character interactions.
I disagree. They’re friendship is established, and then I didn’t find it was developed after that. That’s just my opinion though-I’m glad you feel differently :)
I agree, we may not have seen how the friendship grew over the years. But he still showed L and J doing stuff for one another, being there and defending each other. We still knew they were best friends, just like you can meet people in real life, see how how their best friends and know it, without needing them to explain all their anecdotes.
I liked the books but I can understand why other people don’t :) especially seeing some of those points, even though I personally disagree and love the books because of those things :)
I love this book very much, but I have to agree that the cussing is way too distracting. On the other hand, the only characters I could not tell apart were Calo and Galdo, but that was bc they were twins, haha. Hope everything keeps ok with your dad
Without trying to be super defensive of this series i love, I feel like a lot of these opinions or roasts are coming from people who have only read the first book... Which i get, because if they didn't like the first book, why would they continue, right? but, without me saying any major spoilers, the series does explore more backstories through flashbacks again and builds on relationships further
This was on the first book though :) And I’m glad you liked the sequels, but I’ve seen other people say the sequels are worse. It’d be fun if people who feel differently about that could have a friendly debate!
So the flashbacks continue in the other 2 books? Sigh. I wanted to like this book soooo much. But I could barely finish the first book. I didn't find Locke that likable and I didn't like the split timelines. I still want to give the series another chance. But hearing that the flashbacks continued in the other books.... Nooooooo😵 ...... Maybe I should try the audiobook though🤔
@@ag5495 the flashbacks could be made more confusing when listening on audiobook, however, the audiobooks are fantastic. The flashbacks are always worth it for the payoff at the end when it all comes together
@@ag5495 Time jumps are in each book, they're part of what makes the series what it is. However, each book uses them differently to suit the book's purpose. In the first book, the past interludes narratively connect to the future in the chapters right after them. Red Seas Under Red Skies: The main story takes place two years after The Lies of Locke Lamora. So the flashback, which are only in the first half, fill in the blanks about what happened in those two years. No childhood memories here. Instead, they cover the events of how Lock and Jean faired after the events of Book 1 as well as how they got to the present in this book. The Republic of Thieves: This one acted to give us two stories in one book. Most of the flashbacks are about one whole story. In it, we follow Locke and the Bastards attempting to complete a particular task Chains asked of them when they were teenagers.
Agreed on struggling to care when characters died. It was clear that the key deaths were supposed to hit you in the gut, but I felt nothing. Almost done reading The First Law trilogy, and the contrast in that regard is stark - Abercrombie knows how to make it matter. Was interested in your plot synopsis, and wish I'd seen more of that myself. Had that been the soul of the book - that these guys do what they do, and are so good at it because they are priests, and there was maybe some suggestion of interplay with the Thirteenth - but it just feels like a plot device the author thought would be handy. The most liked review on UK Amazon is entitled "Smug Adventuring". I think that's accurate.
See, I thought when I first started reading it all these things, "it's boring" , "nothing happens" and "too much swearing". However I gave the audiobook a go instead, another booktuber 'Merphy Napier' is always ranting about this book, so I gave it another chance. And I am HOOKED. Simply because Michael Page is such a good narrator, the swearing adds so much more to the characters, the dialogue and the emphasis on what they are saying when he reads it out loud. I would say, if you didn't finish it, listen to the audiobook and give it another try. I'm so glad I did!
I couldn't agree more. I tried reading it and couldn't get past the first few chapters. Yet in audio form it was utterly compelling. The flash backs also lend themselves better to audio narration.
@@ebnovels Good news! My local book store that I thought was closed down is actually doing home delivery. Managed to snag a copy in good condition for 8 bucks! Woohoo! I don't know if it's different in the US, but in Canada there don't seem to be many independent book stores, super lucky this time.
I definitely never heard of this book so im very entertained by how you go about doing this Elliot. I hope people don't come at you with pitch forks over this series lol 😆😂 I look forward to you doing the mistborn series roasts which i know will be difficult for you. Also you could do the witcher books too! You being sarcastic on top of your normal kind self is too awesome. Thanks for always brightening up my day with these videos. Also i don't mind cursing in books as long as it makes sense. Hope your day goes well and heres donuts lol 🍩🍩
@@ebnovels haha you're welcome! I feel like you'll need a treat like donuts when you get done with this series my friend. Thanks for always trying to respond 😊🙏
As someone who absolutely loved this book, I have to say I really appreciate how you are able to express why you did not enjoy it while still being respectful to how many people love it. I disagree with you but I can appreciate your opinion because of how you expressed it.
Yes, I agree with most of these XD I found it super predictable, the friendship was not really fleshed out at all, and I would have gone even farther in that I think Locke is not clever or witty at all but the antagonists become stupid around him just to make him look good. I hate that so much in stories, that at the end I DNFd the book with only two hours left of the audiobook XD I usually understand why people like something that I don't, but with this book, I really don't understand the appeal.
The Locke-Jean friendship was just introduced in the first book. Please read the second book and then you’ll understand how precious that friendship is.
This was fun xD Some things I disagree with. Some things I do (except they're the reasons I love the book lol). Let's see .............. *Friendship:* Book 1 does express the love between the Bastards so we know it's there. But we don't actually spend time with it. Book 2 thrives on Locke and Jean's relationship, exploring it for the entirety of its duration. More than any other book I've personally read. Does that tell a person they'll care about the friendship in Book 2 if they didn't in book 1? Nope xD Just confirming it IS there as much as fans say it is. *Curses:* I'm a prude so I usually hate this. But in this case, it was fitting for Camorr's setting. Especially because in later books, the level of swearing that comes from side characters raises or decreases depending on their setting/background. *No women:* Disclaimer, I'm a girl myself. But I don't look for female perspectives in every book I read. I do think the three side female characters we got in Book 1 were all cool themselves. But for those who don't, Scott does write more 'obviously' strong female characters in later books. *Flashbacks:* I'm obsessed with non-linear story-telling. It wasn't perfect, but most of the time it worked well. Furthermore, each book utilises this trait to suit the needs of said book. *Locke:* He IS an idiot. That's the point. All his brains are wasted on him cause of his attitude. Providing a flaw to grow from given time. *Celebrates the wrong people:* They were easily "the lesser of two (or four?) evils". Chains raised them that way. The series gives off the sense that he intentionally meant more for them then what they were trying to accomplish in Book One. A possibility that's coupled with Locke's thoughts regarding other parties throughout the series and what that could entail in future books.
Hot take - using flashbacks that conveniently apply directly to the following chapter is lazy. Writer needs an explanation for what he want to do next? Just throw in a flashback to explain it away!
I just received this book eek so excited! Maybe a video with negative reviews about the book might not be the best place to state this excitement. I also got the book in my first language and I'm curious as to how all the cursing will get translated, it seems to be one of the most awkward things to get through in other languages.
I read this series several years ago. I was considering rereading it and this totally damped my enthusiasm lol. What I remember disliking about this book is that the protagonists have no significant flaws -- at least none the author intended to give them -- and that's probably why people say they're not distinct from one another. If all the protagonists are awesome and smart and funny and awesome and improbably competent and lucky and lest I forget, awesome, the only readers who are going to relate to them are (probably young) people who just want a book about cool people being cool. And that's what the first half of this book was. Look how amazing these guys are. I saw a video essay where a guy talks about the difference between sympathizing with a character and liking/relating to a character. The only thing that evoked any investment from me was when shit completely hit the fan, and then I was sympathizing with them, not relating to them.
Im halfway through the book and its pretty engaging but its suuuuch a sausage fest AND they fridged one of the only kind of important female characters BOOOO TOMATO TOMATO TOMATO 🍅🍅🍅
@@ebnovels yes, that is why i thought of reading them, merphie likes them very much so i think i will give it a try;currently i can't think about anything but THE WAY OF KINGS that i am reading rn I already love this series so much and i my gut says this feeling will only get stronger (God bless KALADIN and DALINAR🙌🙌🙌🙌)
I'm not a fan of cussing, it's a super turn off for me. Made me lose interest pretty quickly. Its a crutch in writing in my opinion. You can have some super colorful wording without it. The flashbacks had my head spinning, thus I was lost ALOT.
I absolutely love the gentleman bastard series. I think the flashback usage is probably my favorite part and the most well done of any series I've ever read. As "now" progresses as do the flashbacks - following two different narratives. Locke and Jean as kids and as adults. And it's my very strongest belief that as the series concludes the flashback timeline will just be approaching the events of the first book. As is, Scott Lynch is on my modern fantasy Rushmore with Patrick Rothfuss, Robin Hobb, Joe Abercrombie, and Brandon Sanderson. As with many modern authors I was exposed to Scott Lynch through a short story in Gardner Dozois' anthology series... Specifically Rogues where it stood out among stories by George RR Martin, Cherie Priest, Joe Abercrombie, Patrick Rothfuss, Neil Gaiman, Joe Lansdale, and Gillian Flynn.
Just finished the book. I was highly disappointed. So much plot armor in his "heists" than I can withstand. Excellent prose, but not much more that I loved.
Just want to say I really enjoy your videos! Found your channel a couple days ago and have been watching a lot of your old videos! Your channel has inspired me to start reading a lot again!
For those of you who weren’t able to get into the book by reading a hard cover, try the audiobook! That’s how I ‘read’ it the first time. The narrator probably brought it to life in a way I don’t think I’d be able to do just by reading it.
I read this as my intro to fantasy, and I liked it very much (8.5/10). My biggest problem is the pacing in the second half of the book. Flashbacks were excellent in the beginning, but then started to be annoying and mood destroyers. Also some sections were either not needed at all, or could have been cut by 80-90%. I did love the language and the world though. Some phrases, expressions and dialogues were awsome. But, I also agree that I wish we remained with the heist and kept it light hearted.
The best "Lies" have a bit of truth mixed in. I loved the series and that's the point I wanted to put out there - it's a series. And as a whole, it still ranks in my top 5. That being said, I've gone on record as DNF'ing this book numerous times BECAUSE of the flashbacks. The relationship definitely grows and matures through the series. Glad I stuck with it.
I’m glad it ended up getting better for you! I honestly didn’t care for essentially anything in that first book, and most of that came down to preference. Someone earlier in the comments said they think the next ones are worse, so it’s interesting to see you contrast that 😮
Love your videos! Personally I loved Lies of Locke Lamora and hope you read the next book in the series if you get the chance :) I always saw Locke as a smart ass trying to hold his friends together then needing normality to hold on to as his own life gets crazier
The friendship point is not really praising the first book so much but more for all three books that are out, especially Red Seas Under Red Skies, which is the best for Locke and Jean’s relationship development imo. Also could you do a roast of the whole series, because the next two books are where the problems start occurring ; The lies of Locke Lamora does what it sets out to do amazingly well and the rest of the series just kind of flops a bit from there. It’s kind of funny and annoying how the first one is the only one people really talk about and the others get glossed over both in terms of positives and negatives
I don’t really plan on reading the next two 😮 I honestly already didn’t care for this one, but I feel bad that you weren’t a fan of the next two. Will you be reading the fourth?
Elliot Brooks Yes, purely to see if it can go uphill, because some of the world and history details interest me and I’d like to see where Lynch can go with them. If it disappoints I won’t read the fifth one though. Ps it’s nice to see a reviewer that doesn’t just gush about this book. I really enjoyed it but it’s still cool to see someone that doesn’t just go along with the hype
Your thumbnail looks so mischievous. I personally like the relationship of the entire group. The boys complimented one another really well. On the other hand Jean and Locke wasn’t as flushed out as I thought it would be going into the book. I’m also slightly intrigued by the character of Sabetha and we never actually met her.
I think you meet her in book three? I think it’s kinda cool to build up intrigue about the character, but I didn’t like the book well enough to continue 😅
Elliot Brooks the most common complaint I’ve heard about the series is that the schemes they get into are somewhat repetitive and it gets a bit stale by the third book. I’m fairly excited to see what happens especially because they are now basically exiled from their home city and starting over from scratch. I’m also oddly intrigued by stories about con artists.
Haha, are any of the reviews for his peers ever negative? I’ve only ever seen him praise other adult fantasy authors 😆 That wasn’t meant as a jab at you-hopefully it didn’t come across that way!
Elliot Brooks Yes he only ever praises, I just like how he says what parts of this book are better than his own 😄. Now if he could stop writing reviews and write his third book we would all be much happier!
I'm not sure why I love GB so much, but I do. I don't think I could read them back to back though, which I think says something. I think I'm super biased because I love thievery in literally any story and I just will take it. This is even better because a long con is *chefs kiss* Some people say GB is grim dark, and I don't know how I feel about that. I know they're morally grey, but it doesn't feel dreary enough to be grim dark. Maybe that's just my personal idea of the genre, though.
I've never read this book, but one thing that bugs me in books is when the author repeatedly describes a character a certain way in place of letting their actions do the talking. That sounds like whats going on here with the witty character.
I loved the premise of the book but dang, was it lacking in female characters and I absolutely hated that about this book. We are shown 4 female characters: One is only ever mentioned and only as a love interest, the other appears approximately twice (as a possible love interest), very shortly and then we have the two aristocrat women. They at least are a bit more developed, get a bit more attention but not much, but it's presented as if that's so uncommon to have a smart wife or a women pulling the strings in the background. Edit: I forgot that Locke is sleeping with a nameless prostitute, so I guess we have 5 women, and one of the merchants/ black apothecaries is female so 6. Six women mentioned in an entire book.
After just reading this book I 100% agree. I don't understand the hype about this books characters and their "friendship". The flashbacks were a bit much for me.
I planned on reading this series because I thought it was about a Robin Hood (or Captain Jack Sparrow) type of character in a Venice inspired city, but then I learned that the reason they are thieves is because of their religion, which is not my cup of tea, so no thanks.
I like the world, the feel and the heist thing quiet a lot but the characters now looking back aren't very memorable and the overall story is similar too, I will still read any future installments though its good but definitely not amazing.
I always say people are free to be wrong 🤣 But seriously, differing opinions keeps us talking and makes sure the books on offer are varied. No book is for everyone. I did love the Gentleman Bastards, the characters and the way the story is told.
I’m glad you liked it! Haha, while I know this will sting when I do this for my favorites, I think this helps people go in with good expectations, since usually these books are heavily praised 😄
I liked these books very much , so very much . I HATE however having to wait for so long for book 4; although I guess it gives me a proper excuse to reread the previous 3 again.
Love your video! I havent read this but I got it from a friend and have been debating on it. Also, I noticed the julie kagawa series in the background is out of order. 👀 my OCD wouldnt let me unsee it once I saw it. 😂🤦♀️
I'm so conflicted. I want to read it because it's hyped so much, but everything that has been said here turns me off. Should I trust your and all these people's opinion? Should I trust Merphy? She says this story has great characters, but you say everyone has the same personality. How can both be true? I'm definitely interested in the premise, but I've recently read Six of Crows and didn't like it, partly because of the flashbacks. But then again, many people say Six of Crows is a poor man's version of Locke Lamora, so maybe it's better. Aaaah, this is so confusing 🤦🤦🤦 I guess I'll never know until I read it.
I think the characters in Six of Crows have far more depth, and that the “flashbacks” aren’t as frequent as they are in Locke (maybe a better way to put it is that they didn’t feel like the interrupted moments, and I thought they generally had more relevance). That’s just my take though-I hope you like it more than me! I go more in-depth in my review if that helps 💕
The Gentleman Bastards is my favourite series, so of course I would recommend it :) I read Six of Crows right after finishing the third book of the series and therefor was disappointed reading six of crows. I didn't know about the hype when I started to read the Lies of Locke Lamora and loved it. However, I had two issues while reading the first book: the flashbacks and that the characters weren't fleshed out that much. In regard to the flachbacks: I liked the first few flashbacks, but felt interrupted from the later ones. But on the other hands, there is a reason why they are told at a specific moment and they all tie back to the main Storyline. And they aren't that long as well, so while I think they aren't a perfect solution, I can understand why they're there. There are also flashbacks in the second and third book, and both are handled much better. (The second book only has a few flashbacks and the flashback of the third are in my opninion the best part of the book) To the characters: like I said, I thought they weren't really fleshed out in the first book, but I think it wasn't that bad. I still had a generel idea of who they were and how they would act in certain scenes. I fell in love with these characters at the start of book 2 and the friendship of the two main characters is just so good! If you think the book sounds interesting, give it a go :) try to read it without expecting a perfect book but an exciting story that also has its flaws. Maybe it will surprise you, but everybody's taste is different, so no one can say for sure, if you'll like it in the end or not
I have a complicated relationship with this series. It has my favourite world-building and writing style of any books I have read, second only to the Kingkiller Chronicles (another series I love but have some acute issues with). And some of my fall-time favourite scenes. But at the same time I actually agree with many of those complaints. I found the flashbacks annoying, didn't care much for the vilain, and found the main characters average at best. It was even worse in the second book which I felt was almost pointless as it didn't really... do anything. Interestingly many of these were addressed for me in the third book, with the introduction of Sabetha, an actually interesting female character (kind of sad that she wasn't our MC). As well as a flashback sequence that I actually found even more interesting than the main story. I will certainly buy and read the next one. But I get the feeling that this is a series that is going to continue to give me joys and grievances alike.
The main thing for me was the lack of fantasy elements. Where the heck is the magic? The magical creatures? The different races? Almost none of it is resistant. It felt more like historical fiction based in Venice or somewhere in Sicily.
That's one of the things I loved about it xD It felt nice reading from the point of view of people who can't do magic at all. It emphasised their vulnerability, making them bigger underdogs for it. As for the rest of the world, it made magic feel "natural". A norm to everyone, whether they're dealing with it or not.
I really enjoyed this book. I gave it 4 stars. I loved the friendship, it was a stereotypical friendship true but I loved the fierce loyalty they had for each other. Not every friendship is like that. I loved their bond. I loved that their friendship was front and center in the book, it was bold and in your face and not subtle and hidden. Those flashbacks were apart of the reason I docked a star from this book. Towards the end they pulled me out of the book as they had NOTHING to do with what was happening in the story. I felt like they were out there to amp up the emotion (as they usually came right as things were heating up) and then bam it cooled me down and I would have to reread the section before the flashback to get back into the story. I loved this book but it’s not without faults for sure. I loved this roast! It was fun! I can’t want to see what else we roast
I agree with everything you said in this video 😹 I didn't hate it, but I'm definitely not the biggest fan. This book was so hard to read because it was so slow and like you said, the characters and relationships were lacking for me 😬 the only way i could get through it was by switching to the audiobook and i actually really didn't like the narrator but was determined to finish 😭 i do want to try to finish the series though because I didn't completely hate it and I feel like it has the potential to improve with each book. It's one of those annoying books that I have mixed feelings on, and I can relate to all the issues you brought up with it
I think having mixed feelings can result in really great payoff later if you end up liking the next ones! Some say they’re way better, while others think the sequels are worse. Hopefully the former will be the case for you 😄
I have had a mixed response. So much of it I loved, but the story-telling with the flashbacks felt clumsy. I really wanted to like it more, but those vignettes were torturous by the end!
I've never read it because I was put off it because there is a particular booktuber (not you) that keeps talking about the book and I was like "If I have to hear the words The Lies of Locke Lamora one more time" so I'm not drawn to read it at all anymore.
Seems an odd reason not to want to read something. I suppose contrarian would be a fitting word to describe this phenomenon that keeps popping up here and there.
Haha, and then I made a video for it-you can’t escape it! 😆 I get not wanting to pick something up that’s been so hyped, but if it sounds good, hopefully one day you’ll be able to try it out :)
@@ebnovels Haha yeah but it was a video about roasting it so I was down for that :P The thing is that I might actually really like the book, who knows. Maybe it keeps popping up for me because the universe is trying to tell me something haha
