A reasonable Christian talking to a reasonable Atheist, no one yelling and both listening to each other. If this was a weekly video, I would watch it every week.
Reasonable Christian? I guess if professing imaginary delusions is reasonable we as a people have a long way to go before we are considered epistemologically advanced
@@freethinkman7678 I’m an atheist. But there is no need for that. It is important that we approach Christians as our equals if we are to have honest, open discourse.
@@allergy5634 I think that when someone is wagging their penis in public its fair (and considerate) to either laugh at it or show them that its better to keep their private parts to themselves. I see no need to tip toe around people trying to spread delusions to the innocent or those that simply aren’t smart enough to defend themselves with a working epistemology.
Paul, you and Drew really helped me process my own deconversion about a year and a half ago. Thank you for that. Thank you for taking part in elevating the dialogue. I especially want to thank you for talking about your relationship with your father. That's something I needed to hear.
There is not a good way to express how the ammount of gratitude I have for both Paulogia and GMS. At least it is a good time. Love both your work, it has helped me so much. I would be an atheist completely alone in world of christianity if it wasn't for you guys. Thanks
i've loved your more specific formal disputation with sean as well Paul. but you're another of those guys whom I think Sean has and could learn a lot from. I hope the dialogue is just beginning.
This reminded me of your conversation with Eric Hovind. As a recent atheist myself, the only way I could see myself going back is because of the friendship and genuine love of Christians and wanting to be back with that community. Which I believe was close to what you said in your conversation with Eric.
I come from his side of the internet. One of the things that bothered me about some other non-religious RU-vidrs is that they were so combative. I come from an area that was very religious, and I don't want to talk about my beliefs to the people around me because they're lovely people. And I don't want to start fights. Finding his channel was an oasis for people like me. I like seeing compassion for other beliefs, while also finding a place to talk about my feelings where I do not feel like I might make someone else feel uncomfortable. What I'm saying is that he was also a happy surprise for me too.
When his friend said he loved him for him not for being a Christian, that made my eyes water. As an atheist from a very religious family I didn't even know how much I wanted to hear that.
For all my qualms with Massachusetts, one the good things about it is that for the most part nobody cares whether or not you’re religious or what religion you believe in if you are. It usually doesn’t even come up because most of the time it doesn’t matter.
I have many non Christian friends and I love them and they love me.. My brother is gnostic, though it bothers me and my family but we keep our stress to ourselves and we unconditionally love him. And I know he loves us too..
@@endisnear306 Religion isn’t necessary to share that feeling of love. My personal story almost perfectly aligns with GMSkeptic’s, except that my family doesn’t share the missionary background. I was raised as a Christian from birth. Around the age of 16 I began asking questions that no one could answer, and it ultimate made my church family treat me differently, as if to say “how dare you question your faith”, when in reality I was just consumed by curiosity. I was starving for information. That being said, I feel as though labels like “atheist”, “agnostic”, or even “scientist” immediately carry a negative connotation from the perspective of an average religious person. It’s as though non-believers are seen as members of a rival team. There’s a bit of irony that presents itself here due to the fact that part of the scientific method is accounting for the possibility of something being plausible until it can be definitively proven falsifiable. If concrete evidence can’t be presented to support either claim that God is real or not real, the theory of God’s existence remains on the table. It all boils down to this: We’re all humans, all capable of sharing a mutual love and respect for each other, regardless of religious beliefs, political beliefs, physical appearance, sexual preferences, etc.
@@joshuaschulze7545 I'm sorry you got discrimated... It's a very common occurrence in most churches but it is not a Christian thing to do.. Coming to love, yes you don't necessarily need religion to share love but the love of Christ has influenced me and i can learn so much from 1st Corinthians 13:4-7 "Love is patient and kind. Love is not jealous or boastful or proud or rude. It does not demand its own way. It is not irritable, and it keeps no record of being wronged. It does not rejoice about injustice but rejoices whenever the truth wins out. Love never gives up, never loses faith, is always hopeful, and endures through every circumstance.
Yes. Unconditional love is what I was looking for. Of course my believing Mormon family loves me, but it's the sadness and disappointment that always seems to follow. "I love you, but I think you should choose to believe." Going through a faith transition is very very disorienting. It's very hard rebuilding your beliefs. I had to figure out a new meaning of life because I didn't believe in the meaning anymore that I had "known" for so long. All you really want to hear from your family and loved ones is "I love you no matter what you decide." "I love you no matter what." "Even if you leave the church I will still love you."
🙋🏻♂️Athiest here and WOW Sean has to be the most genuine apologist ever. Woww Kudos for having a conversation with one of your critics. "You don't like me role playing as an Athiest? Come on my show and let's talk about it!" Epic I want to be the kind of Athiest that treats Christians the way Sean treats Athiests. What Would Sean Do?
Oh snap! I knew Sean looked familiar. I didn't realize he was the same guy pretending to be an atheist in the other video. Cool. That's super awesome he'd invite Drew on :)
As an active Christian, I'm still more drawn to Atheist channels, as they dare to discuss theological questions instead of "screaming" doctrine at me to keep me from actually thinking and understanding. It's so hope inducing to see reason represented without fear on Christian RU-vid!
I feel that’s what drives a lot of us non believers as non believers drive believers. It does flow both ways but it is hard for me personally to believe people who are trying to scream or ram their doctrine at me as if I don’t understand what they believe and why. So many humans also vary in belief even on the same subject matter. Maybe a middle ground can be obtained if only we didn’t take ourselves and beliefs so seriously as to allow for open criticism. Well put by the the way. Thank you for sharing that important view on how you view these conversations and overall appreciation for opposing views. ❤️
@@Jokl92 What about Numbers where Hod tells his people to take baby girls as property. A few verses later are instructions for dividing property and it includes people. Most Christians change the subject of chattel slavery to indentured servitude. This is not that. This is clearly owning innocent people as property.
This is my favorite thing ever. Sean, once again you model a fantastic example for us all. This is so refreshing and encouraging. Drew, your willingness to come on shows a lot of character I learned a lot from the conversation and looking forward to future collaborations.
Melissa, I saw this on your community tab. I’m normally not inclined to watch things like this; I tend to view things perhaps a bit to myopically, but I’m so glad that I watched it, every second, like you said. This did so much for me. I was worried Drew was right about Christianity. Now I realize that he was right how about the way we sometimes approach, and vice versa. This video did exactly as it was intended: a humanized atheists, and maybe other unbelievers, in a way that I don’t think it could’ve been done by many other people, safe perhaps the testimony of the apostate prophet, and ask Muslim. David Wood’s testimony kind of reminds me of Drew’s, but in reverse, and his relationship with the apostate prophet probably has something to do with a relationship like this, I’ll be at bound up in their knowledge of Islam. Thanks again for posting this, and for suggesting that I watch it all the way through. Broke my heart, but in the best possible way. I’m starting to now rethink how I reach out and engage with people. Thanks, and God bless you all.
@@einarabelc5 we are supposed to cater to everyone. The apostle Paul tells us to be able to gently answer each person. And don’t forget first Peter 3:15, to be ready for a reason for your faith. Some people need love. Some people need to be beat over the head with a sledgehammer, like Nabil Qureshi. Sometimes it’s probably both, like Nabil. And Christianity looks different in so far as the weight presents itself two different worldviews. The way Christian approaches a Muslim is definitely going to be somewhat different as far as what they talk about then a Christian approaching an atheist, even though the gospel is still the same. There are different ways of getting the same message across. But I’m learning from this and others is that it takes wisdom and discernment to know how to approach each person.
Also, you should see if a new ager is willing to dialogue with you the way that Sean dialogue with Drew. Or maybe a Mormon would be willing to talk; you’ve mentioned before that they’re really kind of people. I would also suggest a Jehovah’s Witness, but from what I understand they tend to be pretty cut off as far as talking with supposed apostates or unbelievers. Still, maybe they would be open to a dialogue like this rather than a debate. I know you’ve talked to other Christians, but what about non-Christians? Just thinking out loud. God bless your ministry and your family
You are an Apatheistic Anti-Theist who doesn't go into deeper Theological debates aren't you? Yeah there are a lot of these kinds of talk really, I am assuming you haven't gone into deep territory like this but however it is cheers to Drew and Sean to have a lovely and thoughtful discussion like this!
@@lobstered_blue-lobster I think you might want to reread your comment to yourself. You're coming across as antagonistic and condescending by presuming their opinions and attitudes from a comment that expresses neither. You are undermining your own point, which I don't think you intend. Of course there are lots of productive discussions like these, but they are hard to find on a platform that thrives on short, engaging content, which doesn't leave a lot of room for nuance. I am certainly not an anti-theist nor in any way apatheistic, (edit: autocorrected to (apathetic") yet I have been at this for about a decade and I still struggle to find these on RU-vid unless they are framed as a debate or a takedown. These discussions are much more common in person.
Sean, I am a former Christian who finds a lot of comfort in what GMS' channel discusses. It feels good to hear that there are others who share my journey from devoted Christian to curious skeptic. But you - you are thoughtful. You are considerate. You are kind to people who disagree on fundamental elements of our existence. For that you deserve so much credit. I wish you nothing but clarity and confidence in your search for meaning.
I didn't know it was a gap between Christians and Atheists at all before I saw some videos yeasterday. Personaly, I wouldn't put myself inn eighter of the categories mostly because I don't really know if Atheist is the correct term for my viewes. However, I do take a more atheist look on the world, but I have never really had any troubble with christians at all. I had a friend who tried to convert me over 10 years, I told him it was no reason to do so, if I was intrested, I would simply just ask, but other then that, he was one of the coolest dudes I have known. Inn my teen years, I was also inn a christian group (just like school, had some christian teachings then went to just hang around after for houers) they knew full well I wasn't religious, I did end upp to discuss world viewes 1 time, but didn't end upp as argument VS argument. Just "this how I see the world" and both sides agreed it was just fun how we saw the world differenlty. Then again, I can't say I have seen any of my atheist friends even arguing with my christian friends ever. So, maybe it's not that much of a problem inn my country, but what do I know? 🤷♀️
I am an atheist. I have been for years. I am a HUGE fan of the Genetically Modified Skeptic channel, and have had a very similar journey. I came over here because of Drew. This was an amazing conversation, and I feel that Dr. McDowell did something everyone, on all sides, could do more of... he listened. Thanks again. I enjoyed the video a great deal.
Same story here. Honestly came to watch/listen partly to see what views of Sean's/the Christian perspective I could argue against, but I was pleasantly surprised the *entire* conversation was constructive, reasonable, and understanding on both sides. So, while I disagree with your views, thank you for this, Sean. Would absolutely watch/listen to more open, challenging dialogs like this.
obviously the Reality indicates the opposite of your statement .Your God forgot,was drunk, it slipped his mind somehow,stopped caring about some of the humans ,which are deaf and blind .
Sean is far more constructive than a lot of Christian apologists on the internet. And Drew is definitely one of the most constructive atheists. Atheists can be sarcastic and condescending. Christian apologists can be downright cruel. (Think about Kent Hovind talking over and over again about hitting atheists in the head with a hammer. Have you ever heard an atheist talk like that about Christians?) People like Sean and Drew give me some hope for better dialogue in the future.
Not sure if I'm still an atheist, per se, but having been an atheist I strongly agree with you. Sean McDowell is a good man. I wish more Christians were like him, regardless of denomination or political leaning.
I agree. I was never an atheist, but def agnostic -till I found Isaiah 53 in the Jewish Book of the Prophets back in the early 90's. Who put it there?? Mind changed in a moment.
As an atheist, my only complaint for this amazing conversation is that I actually wanted to hear more of Sean sharing his thoughts or experiences, maybe even bad experiences with atheists. But this was pretty great nonetheless, I imagine this was incredibly helpful for tons of people. I hope you have more conversations or events with GMS, would definitely watch any number of those!
@@marvelsomething1952 it certainly does sometimes. My point was that behind statements there must be arguments, that involves reasoning, whereas experiences usually involve emotions and reactions which strong as they might be they're usually misleading and unreasonable.
@@alexandros6433 But this wasn't supposed to be a debate. It's a dialogue. It's just two people having a conversation about their experiences in different walks of life. They aren't trying to change eachother's minds. Don't get me wrong, I know what you're getting at. If we never have arguments then these questions will just sit there, but if we only ever have arguments then we'll just end up divided. I think these conversations are extremely useful because they allow us to understand one another.
I gotta say, as an atheist, I love Sean. He's eloquent and well spoken, but also loving and earnest. He naturally makes mistakes but he clearly is genuinely concerned with getting things right and treating others with love and respect. If more people, atheist or Christian, could be more like Sean the world would be a better place.
Drew' swords at the end about how he is more likely to listen to Seam because of the grace he showed by listening and being open to criticism had me tearing up. Honestly, Dr. Sean, you are a great example to me because you have had so many different people on your channel and you always listen to them. You let them speak and you treat them not as enemies, but as friends. I am so grateful for you and also proud of you for setting such a great example. I am so happy thatI got to hear parts of Drew's story today. I will be honest and say that had it been him speaking about this on his own channel I probably wouldn't have watched the video. This was a great way of "tricking" me into listening to him.😉😂 jokes aside, I am so grateful that you did this, Dr. Sean. This conversation has encouraged me to listen to people more and, like you, be quick to listen, slow to speak and slow to anger. May God continue to bless your ministry and your family.
Great dialogue. As a Christian I had a harsh reminder of how I should truly speak to someone. To Drew, I’m truly sorry that you had to go through so much. I know this won’t mean much but May God fill your heart with His peace and joy 🙏❤️
@@lyndalittlehales8930 man, I am so sorry that you’ve experienced that. That’s not how it’s supposed to be. Many of us have a long way to go when it comes to communicating well. I hope that you’ll meet Christians who are good listeners like Dr. Sean and that you’ll have good, meaningful conversations with them.
@@eliasvalle8241 "May god fill your heart with peace and joy" why would you say such thing to someone who you perfectly know is atheist? Wouldn't it be more appropriate to, idk, for example "I wish you peace and joy"? Wouldn't that be less passive-agressive?
@@castoramanwab2723 I'm an athiest as well, but I disagree. That's simply the highest form of well wishes from a Christians perspective, and I assume that's all they meant it as because its good to assume the best of people. I think they just wanted to let it be known that they wished him the best and did it, in a non-ideal fashion, and in a way that's hard to convey directly to him.
I’ve been an atheist for over 20 years. This was the best Christian/atheist interaction I’ve ever seen. Sean’s willingness to to take constructive criticism is exemplary and sorely missing in the world and his self awareness of Christian privilege which he addressed in the original video with the students was intensely refreshing. As for Drew his courage in telling his story is amazing and it’s admirable that he was willing to make his constructive criticisms of Sean and Christians to their face and live his principal of cordial, constructive, clarifying conversations and avoiding assumptions.
I may also be guilty of making assumptions r.e. Christians- good to know they are not all bible thumping crazy-ass bigots. Some just need to have that father figure to tell them how to live.Morals are inate and evolutionary The collected social norms adapted over time. They can also change with the times. We do not need ancient scripture, but if one studies them closely, not all of them are contradictory
These are some pretty self-congratulatory comments. Did you guys listen to anything Sean said? I am also interested in this Christian privilege.... what is that? And what morals are you talking about? Are you talking about the Judeo-Christian values of our westernized world?
@@tymurphy8564 Christian privilege is found in places where the dominant belief is Christianity. As the _____ religion's privilege is found in places where the dominant belief is the ______ religion. This is because when the majority believes what you do, certain positive assumptions are made about you that are not made about those who don't share the dominant beliefs. In many instances, it's not a lack of positive assumptions but actively negative assumptions that made against non-believers. Exhibit A- Drew's harrowing experience coming out as atheist. Spending years of your life fearing to share your own beliefs is not something Christians in the US ever have to worry about, and yet it is the reality for some atheists and converts to other religions. Being confident that you can freely express your beliefs in your community is one kind of Christian privilege, in those places that are predominantly Christian.
@@geturledout It's been many years since I was able to discuss my faith in my workplace without getting into trouble. And it's only getting worse with the toxic cancel culture that has invaded America. At this point, coming out as a Christian in many workplaces is a career killer. (Every other religion is a protected class.) On the other hand, atheists are quite secure in their freedom to spout off any anti-Christian comments they want with impunity. Not long before COVID, at an off campus team lunch one of my peers brought up evolution and made some claims that I thought were questionable. So I asked, "How do you know that's true?" My manager immediately turned to me and said "Hey, let's not turn this into an argument." The evolution monologue was fine. Questioning it was creating an "argument." In the public square, Christians are blamed for everything that's wrong in our society including racism and transgender suicides. I was listening to a radio talk show today that had nothing to do with Christianity and a caller came on and blurted out "Christians are the biggest cause of ignorance in America!" That's actually a very ignorant thing to say, but it's not unusual. The fact is, accusations of ____ privilege are just attempts to silence people you disagree with. We all have every right to believe or not believe whatever we want. But we don't have the right to bully, marginalize or silence each other. Free speech is not a right. It is a necessity. Without it, out society will lose the ability to correct it's course as needed. If this trend doesn't get corrected soon, we are all doomed.
@@Bryan-fn6lp The operant sentence of my reply was "Being confident that you can freely express your beliefs in your community is one kind of Christian privilege, in those places that are predominantly Christian." If you are not in one of those places, then I would not expect you to wield the privilege of the majority. However, all genuine faiths are protected classes. This could not be clearer, and the Supreme Court just reiterated that in Kennedy v. Bremerton. If you have not acted upon the discrimination you have experienced, that does not make your faith less protected, it just means you have not invoked the protection. Evolution is not faith-based. In the same way that your manager would not be wrong for having an identical response to you saying, "How do we know that stars are the same as the sun," or a more faith related question, "How do you know that Mohammed was even a prophet?" after someone talked about their Muslim beliefs, your manager was not wrong to cut you short. They were doing what they said they were doing, keeping the peace. In the public square, there has been exactly one atheist elected to national office. Christians get blamed for all sorts of things, no doubt, but few groups are distrusted more than atheists. Accusations of privilege are not attempts to silence those I disagree with. They are recognitions of an uncomfortable fact. I readily acknowledge that in certain spaces atheists have the majority's privileges and believers do not. The United States as a whole is simply not one of those spaces, even if places within it are.
Hey Sean, thank you for having this conversation. You have a really good and pure heart and it really shows in this video. Drew does as well and it was refreshing to here his perspective. As a Christian, I’ve felt for a long time that Christians often are more preoccupied with fixing Atheists rather then simply loving them without expectation as Christ calls us to do. The truth is, life is complex and people are complex. There are a myriad of reasons people come to the conclusions that they do. One of my personal goals is to be a peacemaker that bridges the gap with conversations such as these and I know this conversation will help others want to do the same. Love always comes first.
@@SeanMcDowell you seriously believe in something without evidence... how can you teach when none of you have ever provided anything remotely close... I suggest you talk with Matt dillahunty he would school you easily...
@@WoodysOpinion101 Dude, did you even watch the video??? Or read the comment you are replying to? The entire 70-minute conversation had virtually nothing to do with the actual beliefs of Christianity itself! As a fellow athiest myself, I implore you to please calm down, judge whether this is the right context in which to bring that sort of thing up, and engage in a polite and respectful manner. How on earth do you expect strangers to actually give any thought to what you are saying if you go around making accusations and saying stuff like "Matt Dillahunty will school you"? I really don't want theists associating Matt Dillahunty with the kinds of Athiests that aren't willing to engage in a friendly, productive manner. You are an ambassador for athiests, so please, be considerate and try to leave a good impression.
Conversation like this is good for atheists, commuted religious people, and everyone in between. Thank you to you both for demonstrating that 2 people with vastly different ideas about the world can come together and discuss things in a civil and loving way.
Honestly, Atheists can do a lot worse than having Drew represent us. He's a genuine, good, and open-minded person. He's also very compassionate, so he will represent a lack of a belief in God(s) very well.
It’s kinda like there was a rebellious phase, when Christopher hitchens and others were out fighting for secularism, and after that, more and more agnosticism could just come up without clawing for a space in society. I much prefer Drew’s gentle disagreement, but I’m not sure it could have been this effective without being preempted by a battle for validation.
@@jennifer7685 I find it really interesting that we seem to live in two totally different realities where you think athiesm wasn't accepted in mainstream society and had to be forced into the public conversation.
@@daltonbrasier5491Depends on what “mainstream society” means to you. Different places in the world have wild variance in theism/atheism. What’s considered “accepted by the mainstream” in one place might not be accepted elsewhere.
@@jennifer7685 If you relish an atheistic main stream society, either communist Russia or China should have suited you back in the day, providing you weren't wiped out by starvation or being directly murdered. Today, China might still suit you. Christianity and other spiritually based beliefs flourish, often underground and with much persecution. The poor Xinjiang are put in internment camp "learning centers". Their organs are removed while awake when a profitable need for them arises. Atheism has been mainstream for billions of people worldwide for quite some time. Anyway, enjoy your day in a Christian ethically infused society!
I'm an atheists who comes from Drew's channel, just watched the conversation and I just wanna say that I have huge respect for both of you, if everyone had your attitude, the world would be a much better place, regardless of anyones beliefs
GMSkeptic I am so sorry that I misjudged you I wish I would've gotten to know your story and know you. I am really sorry. Sean I am thankful for you bringing this man up here because he changed my heart towards athiest.
The dislikes are from people whose thumbs slipped while trying to hit the like button. This is such a heartwarming and wholesome conversation and really gives me hope for building bridges in this world.
You forget moving, shocking, illuminating, breathtaking and diverse. Next move: let's build bridges between those who think 2 and 2 is 4 with the others who have a different viewon that.
Sadly not, in this case the old addage "never read the comments" is incorrect. For this video it's "never read the live chat" especially there at the end where Drew was saying to listen to them before preaching at them- several crazies came out and got extra bold. I could easily see them being in the minority that would downvote this video.
I’m a 5th generation pastors son and was in ministry school for 3 years, while serving on staff at several churches. My story is a lot like this one surrounding the anxiety and pain of leaving ones faith. I have left the church and am now in school to study religious trauma syndrome and become a counselor for people who have lost their faith and faced these existential crises following their exit. This conversation was wonderful and I’m glad I stumbled by it.
@@anthonynorman7545 be careful coming out. Different families/social groups have different reactions. If yours is a bit on the fanatical side, it may be wise to wait until you’re financially stable. Also, don’t tell anyone you can’t trust 100%. I told my youth pastor, and he told everyone and it really ruined a lot of good relationships. Good luck. I wish you the best. Don’t let anyone try to change your mind; they won’t.
@@cade8986 thanks for the advice. I'm in the deep south and my job is tangentially related to not being "political or untrustworthy," so I'm aware I'm going to be getting comfortable in my closet. .
Deconstructed atheist here, and just want to say how much I really loved this and realize that I personally need to be better in my dialogue with believers. Lots of respect here, Sean. Thanks for doing this!!!
When Sean asked Drew how a Christian parent should treat their kid and how Drew responded that definitely brought the tears for me. My background is so similar to Drew's: Evangelical Christian fundamentalist to atheist and it is incredible seeing how empathy and love can really bring us closer to more understanding between Christians and Atheists. This is so crucial in building human relationships and bringing any kind of healing - it's so true, discussions of nuance and humanising each other with empathy is something we desperately need on both sides and very often in online communities as a whole.
@@ReapermanUK Don't go around claiming I'm a theist in the internet dumbass and since that's ur logic then don't expect anyone to believe you. Do u think the idea of a god only exist in the realm of religion?
Sean I am glad you gave this man a chance to speak, I am a Christian, but to hear Drew speak really made me think about how I interacted with other people, as I always have tried to show love to other peoples points of view there is still room to improve. Thank you both for a great video.
Read a lot of comments like this already but it's worth reiterating. As an atheist, I really appreciated this dialog. Thanks for doing this Sean and I hope you continue to raise the bar like this for your fellow believers. Well done.
This conversation taught me so much about how to be in relationship with others who dont believe like me. I have 2 grown sons who walked away from their christian faith & I am so grateful to feel I can listen to them with more of a open heart & mind, not with assumptions. Thank you both so much Denise
That must be so hard!! Have you ever asked if something happened while at church or with someone they connected with church? I completely agree about kind and loving communication. Prayers that your sons will return! 🙏🏻
@@ginamiller6754 why does it have to be assumed or there has to be a bad experience to be the reason to leave the faith and stop going to church? Like drew said the best thing you can do for others is have empathy and just realize people make their own decisions.
@@hayosh9309 but it’s difficult. When someone you love doesn’t wanna believe in Jesus it gets depressing. Eternal life without someone I love here on earth is a scary fact.
@@SolidPain6624 If they're good people but just lack belief, I don't know why 'God' should punish them for it. That just doesn't make sense to me. It's like saying Muslim, Buddhists, and other people who are not christians but GOOD people will still not be accepted in heaven or 'eternal life' even though they stayed true to their morals. I mean you have to think because people are born in different countries with different cultures and different principles. Not ONE person would have the same experience as the other. These people most likely will not be accepting of you forcing your belief onto them so they stay loyal and true to their own religions and what they choose to believe in. Because the so-called truth was already shown to them and they just threw a blind eye, would that mean they'd burn in hell for all eternity? That just seems absurd to me.
@@seurn7801 hi! so i just wanted to explain this a bit and hopefully you’ll take the time to read it ❤️ you see the thing is, we’ve all done something wrong in our lives (sin) and because of this we all fall short of God’s glory. Even if we think a person is morally righteous or good, it will still fall short of God’s standards because He is perfect. That’s why faith in Jesus is soo critical since Jesus is the only one that can make us righteous or good in front of the eyes of God (Jesus was the only one who lived a perfect life on earth so He became a sacrifice for our sins or flaws. Jesus’ sacrifice is like a “bail” of sort. We’re pronounced guilty before God but Jesus pays the bail so that we can be set free. This bail can be availed only through faith in Jesus Christ.) And God doesnt send people to hell, people actually send themselves to hell by not believing in Jesus. Hope this helped and would love to answer more questions of yours if you’re interested. Love ya and have a great day ❤️
Such a powerful video. Thank you, both, for demonstrating what true and authentic dialogue looks like. The respect and the care that people need, and deserve, are so evident.
Just need to say I loved this ❤️ My mom and I are about a year out of the Mormon church and she has expressed a desire to look at Christianity from a new perspective. She’s reading the Bible cover to cover, she’s attending different services and just observing and we both highly value love and kindness towards others. Sean your a breath of fresh air for me and I feel comfortable referring you to my mom because of this, I’ve been a follower of Drew for about 3 yrs and I appreciate his opinions and kindness as well (why I followed him for years as a Christian) you’ve gained at least one subscriber if not for your beliefs but for the demonstration of your values, thank you 😊
As an atheist and secular humanist, I love that these two can set aside differences and have an empathetic conversation. We need much more of this in society! ❤️ Edit: Having finished, major respect for Sean in this discussion. This shows true confidence and love. Super happy that Drew represented us well. Would love to see Sean on GM Skeptic for a similar interview.
Yes! I am reminded of a segment produced earlier in the pandemic in which Stephen Colbert and Conan O’Brian simultaneously interviewed each other and released two different edits of the conversation. I would like to see GM Skeptic’s cut of this same interview, if indeed it would be different.
Absolutely agree with this and loved the conversation. As someone from Northern Europe it's hard to understand all that goes on in America about religion and Atheism but videos like this makes me understand a bit more from both sides. But what really hit me hard here was the trust that Sean was able to give Drew on somewhere around 59 minutes mark where Drew made the example of how some Christians have used the "You are atheist just because you want to sin and deep down you really do believe" comment. And while that's not something I believe Sean would never use he was able to to trust that Drew was not trying to use this in a bad faith but let the conversation continue. Way often the reaction would of been to jump in there to defend himself and distract what Drew was trying to say and point there and then the conversation would of went to wrong tracks from there. But that was just a little thing that jumped to me from that conversation. Much thank you for both Drew and Sean about this and looking forward to see more.
@@einarabelc5 sec·u·lar hu·man·ism /ˈsekyələr ˈ(h)yo͞oməˌnizəm/ noun humanism, with regard in particular to the belief that humanity is capable of morality and self-fulfillment without belief in God.
I have an atheist in my family. We have the best conversation and always enjoy each other’s company. We have a foundation in our relationship of love long before we are Christian vs atheist. We learn a lot from each other.
Thank you both so much. I'm 16 and a christian and I've learned much from the two of you today. My heart broke at some moments hearing Drew's story and made me realize I have no idea what atheists or people of other beliefs go through and struggle with. Thinking about it now it just ticks me off how people can be. Your experience helped me understand that a lot of the things I assume about atheists are really twisted and wrong and I thank you for having the courage to come and share your story on Dr. McDowell's channel. Dr. McDowell I appreciate greatly your representation of Christ and having the courage to have a dialogue with someone who thinks differently than you. I've seen this a lot on your videos and it's helped me to think differently about people and think biblically about the world around me. You're definitely one of the reasons I'd love to attend or at least visit Biola University. I thank you both for teaching me to humanize and to just love others unconditionally. I'm grateful to God for both of your channels and hope you both create even better content. Much love to both of you. Thank you, and God bless both of you greatly.
I did get to catch this live! I don’t normally get to so I don’t know how comments work lol just on the off chance Drew would see this I’m leaving it again. As a mother and Christian (who did not grow up in the church) I was in tears most of this conversation. Your story matters. Your heart and experiences matter. You’re exactly right, for me this conversation has humanized you and has compelled me to watch more of your videos. You are a very smart person and watching videos that are a different viewpoint than my own has been challenging for me. I think from this conversation the way you presented yourself and your stance on the relationships between Christians and Atheists has provided me a safe channel to learn about your viewpoints and why you hold them. I can’t seem to shake your story. I wasn’t expecting to have you on my heart like this. It’s like I’ve never met you and I deeply care for you. Thank you both for this awesome conversation!!!
Paulogia is a similar channel to Drew's GM Skeptic. He's older then Drew but he thinks the same way. His kids are Christian and he is not so he's making his channel so that there's something for them to help them in their conversions if he happens to die before they make the move. It's one of my favorite channels on the platform and i feel like it's a good one for someone like yourself. Safe travels on your journey.
As someone who isn’t convinced, doesn’t believe or dare I wear the label of atheist for brevity, I am thankful for this. We need more open, heartfelt dialogue on these subjects for so many humans, these conversations instantly grow tumultuous, clouding out any reason from either end. It’s refreshing to listen to.
Mad respect to both of you. I’m a Christian struggling in my faith because of my experience in the church, and I’m beyond proud of both of you for treating each other so well. I was brought here by genetically modified skeptic, but I’ve got some big love for you pastor Sean. I truly see you making big moves to make sure people know true Christianity doesn’t come down to dogma, it comes down to being Christ like.
Loved the conversation!! A few years ago I met an atheist on a job site. We became great friends. I mean tight! Pranking each other and laughing till it hurt! I'm a late 40's Christian my whole life. In ministry and church involvement. Meanwhile i was deconstructing. Clinging to Pete Enns and Rob Bell and Father Rohr for dear life, so I could STAY a Christian. Long story short, we debate for hours! Every lunch break it was digging deep into faith! I eventually refused to debate him and just loved him. He still a dear friend. The day he called me and told me he had given his life to God, I said, "that sucks.... now I don't have any Atheist friends!" He and I live each other very much and I learned so much about just being a friend. Don't treat atheists like a project to "witness" to!! Ask the atheist to tell you all about what that is. Let them share. Learn from them. Great chat guys!
I hope we get to see more of these two interacting. Personally, I left the faith about a year and a half ago and Drew helped me process a lot of what I thought and felt. A lot of the dialogue from other atheists was negative and tribal, and I can't imagine that's productive for anybody to listen to. You might think somebody is evil or wrong, and you might be right. But please understand very few people actively try to be evil or wrong. Listen charitably. Disagree passionately. Engage lovingly.
@@thecloudtherapist they don't need to give a reason. There's hundreds of small reasons together that can have a person leave the faith. I left for many reasons myself but am looking into coming back but haven't found a reason for it yet
Sean was my prof. at BIOLA this is literally just him, his compassion, and care is genuine. The truth of his heart shows through here. Drew, I appreciate you coming on this show and sharing your heart. Clearly you have a compassionate heart. I’m sorry you have dealt with these types of responses from people who call themselves Christians.
This was so good. I’m am guilty of being a defensive Christian. I agree with what Drew said about trying to better understand what you believe, compared to what Atheists don’t believe (hope I haven’t summarized that incorrectly). I’ve only in the last year, with great help from Sean and his channel, really started to dig in to my understanding of Christianity, and much has been based on what Atheist friend have said, or the climate towards Christian in today’s culture and trying to learn from that. My heart hurt for Drew for some of the experience he’s had with Christians, makes me very aware how important it is for me to do better.
A+ We all benefit from self reflection. Engaging with people who believe differently from ourselves help us to question where our beliefs come from, and if they are true, they will be strengthened by the introspection.
Man, as a Christian, this conversation is so many good things. It's just plain awesome to see/hear good positive communication happening. It was also heartbreaking and convicting to hear Drew talk about his less-than-Christian reception from people he was afraid to talk to the most. The conversation as a whole brought me to tears a few times, which I count as a good thing. Please, fellow Christian and Atheist friends, let's keep this up.
Thank you for this podcast Sean. GMSkeptic I am glad to hear this podcast. As a Christian I think it is important we hear your message, because I think some of us tend discount questions, and that leads to a weaker and sometimes insincere faith. IMHO The insincere faith is often the reason that atheists and people of other faiths get persecuted. I am constantly questioning, and there are many things about my faith that I still don't understand despite my best efforts. My hope is that you keep an open mind and follow truth where it leads.
Thank you for saying that. I’m a Jewish atheist, and in my experience many people just won’t admit that there are questions without clear answers. In the Hebrew faith questioning is a huge and encouraged part of studying and even though I was never a believer I absolutely love talking to Rabbis. From what I see int he comments and the skeptic community we can all benefit from honest conversations. Cheers and have a great day!
@@natasha8007 I didn't get a chance to respond when I first saw your response, but I truly meant what I said. I realized a several months ago that if I were being honest, my faith was hanging on simply because I don't buy an un-caused first cause with out intelligence, and I am still in a period of working things out. I believe in God because of personal experiences I have had that I can't explain any other way, but I continue to question and have committed to go wherever the truth leads.
@@BrentPinkston Well, those personal experiences can vary widely, of course, and may seem contradictory, at least at first. Plus, there are others who left, like Mark O____ (name withheld) who prayed and begged, sincerely, to speak with Jesus (and to not be gay) and yet who never received a reply. At least, not within the church he had grown up in. All that necessarily adds complications, thereby.
Thank you Sean for showing the grace of Christ. I won't lie I am very defensive when it comes to my faith in Christ, because He has gotten me through some things. I think I should be more willing to let others express them without being passive. Thank you for Drew too for debunking certain perception I had about atheists
There are a lot of atheists out here who like drew and myself are willing to reach across the isle and have respectful yet challenging conversations. We learn how we dont want yo be treated when we lose our faith and so we dont do it to others when they have different ideas. Im glad you were able to get something out of this.
I think people get defensive about their faith bc there's no logic in it, only emotion. It's a very emotion driven belief for them. When you can't point to anything verifiable, it's all "feeling" basically. Whereas atheism is pure logic, therefore it's a lot easier for us to separate emotions from it. Just my take.
Sean, I am an agnostic leaning toward atheist, I was raised as a Christian and slowly grew away from it from years of emotional abuse but I just wanted to say I have NEVER seen an apologist as kind hearted and fair as you! I wanted to say that even if you’re “not on my side” I appreciate you and how you hold and operate your self it is very honorable, thank you for standing out.
Good stuff. Some of us have had such terrible experiences with people of faith that it’s difficult to view any of them charitably. No group is a monolith, and Sean does a wonderful job here in being open and compassionate. Respect.
This is just the conversation we need in this generation 👍 keep up the good work both Sean and Drew! And also to all the viewers, let us learn from them.
I’m coming from Drew’s channel and based on Drew’s last video, I’m excited to see the dialogue you two have! EDIT: I was very pleased to find an extremely productive conversation between these two fundamentally opposed people that share such a righteous common ground. Moreover, I was very surprised to find that every single comment coming from all perspectives was respectful and open-minded, even when talking specifically about disagreements, barring one single toxic comment I read. It's so refreshing to see. Much love
I'm 49 and just recently "deconverted". I grew up in a very evangelical family, being members of a local Assembly of Good church. After announcing (to myself), that I'm a full blown atheist, I started watching a bunch of atheist RU-vid channels. I didn't care for the demeanor of most. I really appreciate Drew's channel, which is how this showed up in my recommendations. This conversation, on both sides is great.
@Karroyo, I agree! Sadly the comments section on some Christian YT channels can get pretty toxic. How terrible is that? Judgement and arrogance between different denominations and the ever present "You're wrong and are going to hell". 🙁
@@cynthiaadkins-zj9ut Being able to see and understand both points because, at some point or another, I lived both interpretations and was able to build a deeper understanding. I try and show humility in my knowledge which lets me accept the information others give. If only the rest of the world were open to these ideas.😞
Oh man, this one had me in the feels. I spent many years in a cult (this one happened to be a broad mix of eastern and western philosophy/religions) and I believed. I held it as self-evident that my experiences proved the truth of the path. I had a guru and had some experiences where she KNEW what I was thinking. It was spooky and it felt as real as anything else in the world. Then, just like Drew, I came to realize that I couldn't trust my experiences. I learned about how easy it is to fool yourself and convince yourself of things. Much less other people convincing you. I realized that a belief system based on personal experience couldn't be trusted. I wanted those experiences so badly and I was surrounded by a system that celebrated when we had those experiences so I was primed to have them regardless of whether they were "TRUE" or not. Were they "REAL?" I couldn't know in absolute sureness. I came to examine my belief system (which was extensive) and under examination, it fell apart. It was like a house of cards. I just took one after another of those cards and examined it, realizing quickly that I couldn't rely on it either. Over the course of a year of self-examination, I had become an atheist. I guess, like anyone who is honest, I'm an agnostic atheist. I believe there is nothing god-like in the universe, but who really knows? I could be wrong, of course. I've been wrong before about important things. But there's no reason to live my life based on that distant possibility. ------------ Anyway, I see the world around me. I see how deeply atheists are mistrusted in the United States. (We're down there with Muslims in studies of bad perceptions of religious groups.) And I myself hold negative views toward religion and even belief. There's a divide and it's pretty big in a lot of places. This, I believe, is the way, the path to peace between us. Like they both said, a debate is fine but DIALOG is what will save us. Humanizing each other. Loving, or at the very least, respecting each other. Bringing our best selves to encounters with the "other." These are the ways the world will be saved over and over again. At the beginning of the video, I was thinking, "boy this is a love-fest and they should get to the debate." Then, over the course of the video, I saw what was happening. Sean was giving space for Drew to be humanized. He spent the entire video allowing Drew to tell his story without debate or judgment. That's powerful stuff! There is love in that action, and peace. Sean's a lecturer in his bones. Lol! He just couldn't stop himself occasionally. But seeing that, I was deeply impressed that almost all the time he just let Drew share himself and his journey without lecturing or talking very much at all. And Drew's a talker himself so it was a lot of sharing! Much respect for Sean and for Drew. They both stuck their necks out and took chances. This is what peace looks like. This is what love looks like.
I didn't know all of this about Drew, he had a difficult childhood. At those age I'd just end it in his shoes. Damn I'm glad he got out and is doing very well. I'm an atheist too, came from Drew's channel
I just want to say that, as someone long in recovery from religious trauma; I have so much respect for both of you and it gives me so much hope to see these dialogues. @SeanMcDowell thank you for LIVING the ideals that my family only paid lip-service to. You are a credit to your faith. @GeneticallyModifiedSkeptic thank you for setting a good example for those of us who have religious trauma and are working through it!
I really appreciated this! Thank you. With all of the arguing and tension these days, it’s SO refreshing to just hear two people having a respectful conversation. Thank you both!
You’re both class acts & this was a great conversation. Drew thank you for your honesty & vulnerability. It hurts me to hear how you were treated when you started questioning your faith & even more when you ultimately walked away. I think of the old saying, “who needs enemies when you have friends (or a community) like these/this”. Because I am a Christ follower, of course I pray that you will come back to a relationship with Jesus. I see a light in you, so I believe that The Lord isn’t finished with your story yet. As always Sean, you represent Jesus & the Christian community well. Thank you for your heart & for your vulnerability by putting yourself out there to have these important, respectful & humanizing conversations.
I don't remember much of my "Christian" experience in the 4 to 14 window. I went to Sunday School at Ridgeland Community Church and I didn't buy it when we were learning about Noah's Ark and Jonah and the Whale. I think my friends in Sunday School were also having a hard time with the material. Surprisingly, I actually wasn't given much indoctrination about Jesus in Sunday School. I've read the Bible in pieces recently. It's difficult to read all the way through, but there was a time when I wanted to have a relationship with the Lord. I have a recent lump or cluster of Audible audiobooks where some are devotionals and some are about prayer (especially in the Christian tradition). I don't want to post any Gotchas, but I'm also concerned about the problem of speculative interpretation of scripture. Anyway, this was a GREAT dialogue on RU-vid in an endless sea of debating, proofing, "refuting", and "debunking".
All love to my Christian brothers and sisters. I hope we can make a world where religious dialogue is safe and not met with antagonising and bad faith arguments. As an atheist I have been called all types of names after addressing my religious affiliation, often after being asked about it. The attitudes towards atheists as arrogant ignorant people out to get religious folk has to go away
I'm halfway through, and I'm crying for the second time. Drew's experience hits so close to home, and watching Sean validate him and remembering how my own parents validated me, knowing how scared I was to come out to them, it meant the world to me. Thank you for sharing these wonderful messages, and showing such a good example, Sean and Drew!
This is a great example of what the world needs more of. I have so much respect for both of you. This is one of the most meaningful discussions I've ever seen.
I grew up in the church and then lost my faith in my early 30s. God pulled me back in in my 50s and no matter how I resisted He kept insisting. So, so thankful He wouldn’t take no for an answer. I totally understand Drew's questioning. I hope God touches his heart again and he feels the desire to rebuild that relationship.
Love this conversation and wish every interaction could be a “dialogue” (instead of “debate”). It feels like being a fly on a wall of a chat between colleagues/friends who respectfully disagree on a topic they both deeply care about - instead of being a spectator in a gladiatorial arena of combatants looking for opportunities to score points in order to “win” the event.
What's cool is I think this comment space has tried to be the same. Christian, Atheist, and Skeptic reaching out to at least try to be friendly. It's cool.
@JON I couldn't agree with you more .. Because at the end of the day when it comes to having a debate neither party is going to change their position . Thus on the same hand both parties know they are not going to make the other change their position . And the same goes for their audience as well. But a real honest discussion were they are not just talking but actually communicating and listening to each other. And thus respecting each other from the point of them being humans . You don't ever have to agree with them and that's totally fine. It's Ok to disagree either partially or fully , just as long as it's respectfully first and foremost !!
They really didn't get a chance to disagree though. Not that they should have. I just wish it was a longer conversation so they could get to a difference of opinion. Not so they could argue but so others could see how a conversation like that should be handled. I think these guys would be able to represent that very well.
I think dialogue is more likely to lead to change as well. We’re more likely to come believe the same things as those we like instead of those we view as enemies
Incredible to watch two men with vastly opposing views, really listen to each other, and allow a discussion to develop. I've watched Drew since he started his channel, and have never been compelled to entertain videos from Sean. With this dialogue I've realized I've been missing out on the rest of the story of what it means to be civil when we disagree. Thank you Sean for rising to the challenge and letting Drew come on your channel and speak for himself as an atheist. You're a true gentleman and an example for those that follow your faith and teachings. Respect is always earned, and you've definitely earned mine. Love and respect to both of you, and all the best to those you love. By the way, most positive comment section I've ever seen on RU-vid, you both deserve some sort of diplomatic award.
I love this conversation! Too many people today seem absolutely unwilling to have respectful dialogue with those with whom they disagree. Left vs right, religious vs secular, vegan vs omnivore, pick your divide, there’s just so much demonization and disingenuous behavior on all sides. This level of honest and respectful dialogue is so rare and so necessary. Thank you both for modeling the sort of behavior that is desperately needed on social media right now! Ultimately there are only two ways to effectively change society, dialogue and violence. Thank you for helping more people see the value of honest dialogue!
Drew seems like a super cool and personable dude. It’s nice to see such a loving and grace filled conversation between a christian and atheist, it’s unfortunately not as common as it should be.
I'm a 53 year old pastors kid....who has traveled the path from faith , to gnostic , to agnostic, and finally ( because of science , and specifically Carl Sagan ) an atheist. It was agonizing . However my family and friends still love me, and respect me. This discussion, and it's spirit, is familiar, and refreshing.....more of this please.
I appreciate this good faith discourse. I was a deeply devout Christian for many years until I finally came to terms with my questions. Like Drew, it took me a few years to tell anyone. Sadly, I lost many friends when I came out aa an atheist. Thank you for listening and trying to understand.
I'm an Atheist and I'm a teenager. I have always pride myself on my thoughtfulness, critical thinking and overall intellect. Recently I've been looking back on my history and realized I'm really bad at critically thinking. Usually I just kinda run with whatever someone else says and I've gotten into pretty dangerous mindsets because of it. When I was like 11 or 12 I got pretty into a RU-vidr called Isaac Butterfield. I bought into his misogynistic worldview and for a good couple months I started moving to a pretty dangerous mindset. That kinda scared me and so I stayed in my echo chambers afraid of what else could happen. With you I finally found someone with an opposing worldview I feel comfortable watching and I want to slowly improve my critical thinking skills as well as enjoy your discussions. Thank you
It's wonderful seeing 2 people with different views on the world having a respectful conversation, and it's nice to see people with different opinions in the replies appretiating it.
The most interesting and informative part of this discussion is actually happening in the live chat on the right. Despite everything Drew specifically explained, some Christians in chat kept declaring that Drew was never a real Christian and that he deconverted because Christians treated him badly and so many other tropes. The worst part is we all expected those responses. We've all heard it time and time again. They still refuse to listen just as Drew mentioned.
While I wasn’t there for the live video I can answer this. Biblically speaking once saved always saved, there is no “deconversion” because conversion isn’t something we do, but God does in us. I can’t speak to the manner of speech those individuals commented with, but what they said is truth. Edit: This isn’t to discount Drew’s experience, I’m merely stating what truth is. It’s entirely possible he fully believed he thought he was saved, but in the end God is the one who does the saving, and we are just his vessels.
@@nickhorton4474 Which would mean that any person believing or not is God's choice not the person's....rendering any punishment for not believing even more monstrous. Fortunately what you've explained there isn't "stating what truth is" but instead stating beliefs that differ from person to person and denomination to denomination.
@@stiimuli You're right, it is God's choice. But it isn't monstrous, we deserve the punishment and while unbelief is part of our failings there is an unimaginable multitude of others. Every time we sin it is against an infinitely powerful being, and thus warrants an equally terrible punishment. This is justice.
@@stiimuli Further, God choosing to save some but not others is not injustice. Damning us all to Hell would be justice because we are all worthy of it. However, he is not only just but merciful, and thus in his mercy allowed for a way to be saved, and calls people to that salvation. Again, this is not injustice. Injustice would be not punishing us for our sins, and instead just let it slide. That would be true injustice, especially when the gravity of our sin is contrasted with the holiness of God.
@@stiimuli You're right that the particulars of salvation (in regards to God vs people choosing) are debated, but the assurance of salvation is clear in scripture. Thus, there are no "backsliding Christians", you can be in a rut, and perhaps the atheist in this video is, but you cannot be saved then unsaved.
Sean, I've been an athiest probably longer than Drew has been alive, and have watched some debates. This was a great video, and a great dialog where mutual respect was shown throughout. I'll be checking out the live q&a!
Drew, don’t know if you’ll see this. But thank you for coming on to talk with Sean. It was so refreshing to see you in a more natural and laid back setting. The polished and scripted videos on RU-vid can often rob people of their humanity. I often make the mistake of making a caricature of people based off their “RU-vid Persona”. I forget that RU-vidrs are actually real people with hopes, dreams, fears, family etc…and for that I apologize. I genuinely hope you can find peace with God through Jesus and that I can call you my brother and see you in heaven someday. Thanks again for the discussion, good video. 👍🏼 P.S. I can relate to being bullied. I was always the smallest kid. In high school there was a rumor going around that I was 10 years old. Girls had absolutely no interest in me and I was routinely picked on as I was a small, weak, and easy target. I remember loathing gym class, and being grabbed by three bigger kids who stuffed me upside down into a garbage can in front of everyone.
It's human nature, which presently Christians still possess. We can, through the knowledge of God and the power of The Holy Spirit, take a much higher road, in which we have clear access to through Jesus, the Christ. There is an unseen spiritual world. Devils, seeing Christians as their adversaries, concentrate on keeping Christians down much more than the average person. They work tirelessly day and night to cause Christians to fail on many levels, in their characters, understandings and actions. Unfortunately, not that many Christians are taught the importance of or how to be Christian soldiers, to put down their spiritual adversaries. It's actually an amazing feat of God's presence in our lives that we do as well as we do. Those who are on satan's side should not be surprised if they seem to possess a sort of false peace and a seemingly moral advantage, not being highly targeted by unseen, evil forces. The enemy does not see them as formidable adversaries, but rather present helps in their incessant drive to destroy the souls of men, including theirs.
What a wonderful and respectful conversation. This is how we should treat each other always. I really learned a lot from this. Thank you both for sharing your hearts.
I’m a Christian, but just wanted to say I appreciated your humility and generosity Drew. I relate a lot to your story, though I’ve come to a different conclusion. May God bless you in your intellectual and relational pursuits!
This is such a beautiful interaction! I love that both Drew and Sean show the utmost respect for each other rather than letting it devolve into personal attacks like certain other people who would be focused on trying to "Whack an Atheist." It shows us that people from all walks of life and all belief systems can be good, understanding, and compassionate. I have the deepest respect for both of you.
This is so helpful. I remember hearing Tim Keller say (paraphrasing), "We ought to be able state the other person's position in a way where they say, I couldn't have said it better myself before you have the right to critique their position." Thank you both for this.
I've told close friends and randos online, but never my family. As my parents are older in age and definitely not willing to consider false faith, I do not wish to burden their later years with concerns of my non-faith.
I got disowned from my religious family for my support of the atheist protest in Arkansas, where they have the 10 commandments. My family is from Arkansas
@@SkilledTadpole same here. I just want to give them some 'peace' after all they have done for me, it's the least i can do. I told my brother and close friends though.
I could never use the 'athiest' word around my family as it would complete the partial shunning I already experience for just questioning things. I waited till my mom died before I could honestly pursue truth and study evolution, history and science. As a grown man of 57 years, I feel silly and stupid for hiding how I feel from the ones I love, but the consequences and pain would feel a lot worse.
So much mutual respect and understanding shown by these gentlemen, Drew i knew you had it in you but im glad to see Sean does as well. Excellent role models for us all to look to when we encounter others with differing worldviews!
This has been a much need discussion between two people (human beings) I think it was a beautiful demonstration of Sean's humility in approaching Drew as an Atheist. I'm also speaking as a Christian too. I think in our world it has come down to an "overuse" of labels. As people, we are more than a label. I think in considering the brokenness between groups, it becomes sad. I would call it; The Damage of assumption. Sometimes we can assume that something is true, so we pass an assumption (gossip) along as if it was a truth. Even Christians disagree based on different doctrines. So I can understand someone like Drew "leaving" because of that point; so many different doctrines. Then the question can become; which Christian message should I base my life on?? I think we all want the truth, whether Spiritual truth, cultural truth, personal way of life truth, etc. I hope Sean opens this up more. Both sides need humility. In the end, we can agree that in all of life there has always been different kinds of battles. ( Actual wars, and battles in the form of division among people) This is one thing true from that point. "Only the dead have seen the end of war." >>>George Santayana I noticed that Drew mentioned understanding. That is so true and much needed. You can't know what you don't understand. Thank you Sean. Outstanding discussion.
Thank you for this wonderful example of how to have a real conversation. Having been born and lived almost 40 years as a Christian and now being an athiest for 15 years I cannot recall a single conversation I had where a Christian is genuinely interested in why I no longer believe in God. Drew pointed this sad truth out quite well. The inverse is important also, as I learn more about what people believe and why, I find that blanket assumptions are usually incorrect as every individual seems to have their own viewpoints even though they follow the same beliefs. I value honest conversation over clickbait or sensationalism any day, and I believe many others do to as it is rare these days. Thank you.
For 40 years?! That's amazing. I mean most of atheist i knew were from the younger generation. I had the assumption that older people most likely will never question their faith, you just proved me wrong. And you're right, we shouldn't make assumption about each other.
I've been a fan of Drew for years, and this is the most enjoyable discussion I've ever seen. Marvelous. Thank you both for modeling the authenticity and joy of sincere dialogue.
I absolutely love both of you guys. We are so fortunate to live in a time where the internet provides us with an opportunity to have discussions like this. These discussions are so very important for a healthy society. I grew up in a powerfully Christian community and what broke down the wall in starting to question Christianity at age 11 (before I was developmentally ready for this journey). Was observing how others in my community were speaking about non-Christians. So I am so very thankful and believe your platform is exactly what we need to promote people beginning their own spiritual paths when they are fully equipped with a pack, walking stick and compass.
Why do people who are “atheists” make a religion out of “NOT” believing in God. It’s a story obviously about impossible things I just don’t care enough either way. My family are Christians, I wouldn’t ever tell my mom that I don’t believe, I wouldn’t want her to believe I’m going to hell. I don’t get why atheist make a religion out of not believing in God you all watch videos and focus on not believing in something together it seems like humans need to believe something together even if its believing in nothing together. I could care less it’s a story that’s physically impossible why all the hoopla about it? a sizable portion of your life you all spend watching videos and talking about a fantasy story like some sort of cult of non-belief smh we as human’s are so weird🤷🏾♂️
I am an Exvangelical, long time watcher of Drew's channel. Sean's video came up in my feed before Drew ever put out his critique video, and I really enjoyed it. I have such respect for both of you. Thank you Sean for the integrity you represent in having actual dialogues.
I started questioning years ago in my faith journey as well. My desire was to find the truth no matter where that took me, and I eventually recognized doubt was a gift. Everything I searched out led me to a greater, deeper faith in Christ, including what I found in science, history, archeology, and more. I wanted (and still do) a Christian faith based on reason, and I found it. Interesting that Drew came to a different conclusion, but that's the reality of free will.
It is interesting. We all have a bias formed by the interaction of genetics and environment. Variations in Genetic predispositions and social conditioning will almost ensure contradictory conclusions.
