Thank you my man, because of your port of qodot to 4.0 I have decided to get back into game creation and level editing. I miss quake and quake 2 level editing so much
Around 2003ish, we seemed to move away from BSP and similar techniques to build levels and switched to building with static meshes. Suddenly, maps were not as slick to move around about, there was all sorts of greeble to get stuck on. Maps got more visual fidelity, but became harder to glide through, and the focus became more on looks than how well you could move though the environment.
As someone who modded quake and half-life back in the day, seeing wally and trenchbroom (a modern alternative to worldcraft/valve hammer editor) is a blast from the past. These workflows are how we did it back then, when modeling and level design were totally separated with different tools and workflows.
The Pizza Tower-esque escape sequence would be very interesting to see! There's probably a lot you can play with regarding changing level geometry, opening up new areas or secrets, and new enemy placements to make the reverse trek a fun twist on the level itself.
I would love to watch a deepdive on how you have trench and godot interact. This is so cool. As an old UE1 mapper, i'm happy to see brush based level design tools again.
Trenchbroom and godot interactions are incredible!! Been following this from the start. Keep up the good work! Definitely would love punishing spike pits that enemies might fall into too! Enemies should definitely be affected by the same traps as the player for creative kill strategies.
That intro sequence by itself looks like a lot of fun! The sliding kick type move knocking enemies away and into things/each other looks really cool, reminds me a bit of Dark Messiah where you could kick enemies into traps, spikes, ledges, and so on, lots of creative ways to beat a level, your game looks very promising!
As someone who's been doing a lot of Quake mapping as a way to train my own level design skills, it's great to see the revival of Quake mapping tools, and hopefully soon enough people will start paying more attention to the INSANELY COOL modding scene this game has since the start, along with its AMAZING maps the community has made. Very nice to see how you integrated it with QODOT too, more people should be doing this and I'm not gonna rest until they realize how powerful it is
@@50PullUpsI haven't uploaded them publicly on those websites (yet) cuz I don't feel that I have worked on something good/long enough, but I've posted some of my 1-day map challenges on the Quake Mapping Discord. Might get back to that when work is not as rough as it has been, cuz I've just been sketching random structures recently
YO!!! I just gotta say I was watching the video and then the sick beat at 8:47 dropped and I went to find the song and hey, its OST for your game... Actually crazy sick, oh wow I will buy ur game
Holy shit, perfect timing to find out about the level editor. Working on a sorta Quake like game myself and have been slowly struggling my way through level design.
This "transverse the level back idea" is pretty interesting, especially feel and fixed enemies. It would allow the player to strategize about which enemy to kill on the way in to have enough to dash throw and get momentum on the way out.
I had an idea that the lore reason the player was able to dash at people is that their other hand was some eldrich being like tentacle. You should also add a grapple ability which would still work with the tenticle idea.
Great to see people appreciate the many games I grew up playing! There are many gems from that era and even more great that your updating and implementing newer high volume aspects to it. Also if you need some more textures I actually am crazy 🤣 into making them but have yet to get to uploading videos cause I wasn't sure if people would enjoy watching them or not. 🤷
Wally is a blast from the past. I remember using that to make textures almost 20 years ago for my own game projects at the time. I forgot it even existed, and by the looks of things, so did everyone else!
One thing I've done recently that I'm quite proud of, is a system where I can optionally do more complex targets, to mimic Hammer's system of inputs and outputs. My entities have multiple events/actions that you can specify in TB. For example, a single trigger that opens/closes a door when I enter/exit the trigger looks like this in TB: target door1 (name of target) target_event on_enter (event of the trigger) target_action open (action the door must perform, and that it supports) target2 door1 target2_event on_exit target2_action close Having the same `target#` prefix helps parsing and joining them during build (into a dict). You can make it so all of those are optional, and it just uses the defaults when they're not provided, so you can still do a simple target/targetname connection anyway, if that's all you need. You can also add other things like *target_delay,* for example, to delay the triggering. The implementation is a little tricky, and requires some setting up during map building, and some during runtime initialization (like storing a reference to the actual target node). TB is smart enough to still show connections if you use target1, target2, etc, so you can have multiple of these. Another thing I'm doing is using image icons and 3D models in TB. It's tricky to do, because TB is kinda really bad at it, but it can be done. It requires you to edit the .fgd manually though. Tbh, I'm not sure Qodot is equipped for this. I haven't been using it because the .NET thing gobbles up way too much memory for my potato. I'm using my own modified fork of TBLoader and editing the fgd manually. But if you can do this, imo it improves the workflow. There are two great articles about fgd editing by Valve Developer Union, where they explain all this (also TB manual). If you use image icons, you'll probably want to scale down your entities in your GameConfig.cfg so you can use bigger images. Iirc, a 32x32 image is 16x16 units in TB, and that's rather small. But if you scale down your entities, then you have to scale your 3D models to compensate. Knowing the following helps doing the math though: 1 Godot meter = 1 Blender meter = 64 TB units A few other things about images and models: - models have to be .obj, exported with .mtl file, and iirc with material groups and/or other groups (icr) - it seems they must all be inside YourGameDefinition/assets. Models can be in subfolders of that. - you must name your model's material inside Blender the same as the file name, for TB to find it - TB uses quake coordinates, so you'll have to keep that in mind when exporting the model
Nice! This reminds me of my short period creating Quake maps back in the late 90s. I was a total noob, but had tons of fun experimenting and learning more about the process. I wish I still had those maps, but sadly I was too lazy -- yes, LAZY -- to bring them over to my next pc and they just got lost forever. So incredibly stupid... Today I can't even remember what software I used to build them. 😄
Ah, I feel that. I’ve lost so much old stuff from old computers. I’m always too lazy to move everything over when I get a new computer. Anything that’s not on GitHub is basically lost forever for me
8:47 interactivity-music synced-platformer boss battle. drop the certain walls on player that kill him, use levers to make a platform boss is at go down, with second phase at 10% hp of boss running away through a paltforming area with platforms that trigger things when you step on them, for example sliding the hidden platform from the walls to outside for you to jump in a limited time. while the lava is rising from the bottom of the area
Trenchbroom/Qodot have been insane for me as well, of course I have a few years within Trenchbroom already but it's such an amazing workflow to have, iteration is SO fast.
Returning to the start to finish a level sounds cool. Even subtly changing the level layout when you hit a trigger might be interesting, although it might just end up being frustrating.
This video was great and made me eager for the next About stuff to add to the maps using interactive triggers, I think something cool you can set up as a way to challange the player and also hint that the enemy is trying to organize in order to catch the thief are ambushes in later levels/missions. Think about knights dropping form the ceiling when a key item is taken, blocking the obvious path with falling rubble in order to punish slow players with a forced fight, or maybe dropping the player into a pit with knights waiting at the bottom which would give the player the choice of either fighting the knights or trying to climb out of there. Anyway, form what you have shown us i think you are pretty capable of comming up with great stuff to surprise the payer and try to catch the thief off guard. Keep it up my dude!
This is so cool... As a 90s kid I grew up on level design like this and even learned how to use the old Unreal One engine for making Deus Ex maps. Learning Godot now I decided I wanna go back to doing level design like this even if I'm really good in Blender now. Trenchbroom is interesting, but I'm currently using Cyclops right now which is kinda like Trenchbroom but as a plug-in for Godot where I use Godot as a level editor directly. I hope tools like this really evolve as the industry seems to have given up on them, which I feel was a mistake as level design and modeling are pretty different in scope and ideally suited to their own program. I can make one amazing looking flower vase in Blender now, and while sure I could make nice looking maps in Blender too, if I gotta change anything it would become one massive UV/texturing headache to redo any part of it. Cyclops lets me make a map, then change it quickly if I don't like it without needing to redo all the UVs and what not, that's really why Level editing and 3d Modding should be done in their own respective programs I feel.
Okay, I've got to admit I'm a little biased because I know Blargis personally and he's one of my favorite people, but these devlogs are sooo good! Your love of the project is infectious. You've got a crisp vision, a logical and pragmatic toolchain, and a knowledge of what makes this genre legit (more designers need to play older games!). I'm so excited to see how this shapes up! Oh, and I love the idea of having to steal an artifact and then make it out alive.
12:40 in my game i'm planning on having something kinda like that. it's a high speed roguelike, and when you get to a boss, before you're able to defeat them, you'll have to race back to the start area as they're chasing you down, and then when you fight your way back to them, then you can face off against them. but you'll only have to do that once (successfully) per boss, not every run
I'd love to hear more specifics on what you believe makes good level design for a game such as Quake. I felt like the video was missing a bit of depth in regards to the "design" aspect of level design, which usually gets ignored on RU-vid in favor of environment art. It definitely could've been interesting to see the application of some tangible rules and principles.
hey not sure if you will see this but adding more things like genre and style tags will help your game out more on Steam as well! this looks awesome im really excited to play it someday
Hey man, I just found your channel while I was searching for reference on dungeon crawlers. I'm really liking these devlogs, you're doing a great job showcasing the whole appeal of your game's system. If you don't mind a small critique though, sliding into an enemy and knocking them down feels a bit like a waste in a game about killing and ditching cause it doesn't really support any of those things. I would suggest knocking them away in the direction of your slide so you could jump cancel and slash them or, if you want to go even further, use the enemy as a platform to reach a higher place. This would add a lot of verticality in the map and would encourage the player to make their own path rather than sticking with the obvious route.
I really get your angle here. I think when "secrets" started becoming "easter eggs" there was a shift from a funhouse to realism in gaming. I'll keep an eye out.
Your devlogs are a treat! Something for interactive elements, a puzzle to gain access to a secret area. For example a mural or some statues that give a clue for how to open a secret door somewhere in the level. Could be something simple as finding a bunch of levers that need to be put into a specific orientation or shooting windows or targets in a specific order, or a statue room where some statues need to be destroyed and 1 needs to remain intact so it can then come to life and open a door or pull a cool sword out of stone for you. Just some random ideas
interactivity with the level can be tied to enemies as well, perhaps certain triggers turn lights on or off and that changes the behavior of special enemy types. tying in mechanics of enemies directly to the levels design makes for very interesting and unique encounters and keeps your levels from feeling too same-y.
I liked the secret rooms a lot of these games had. Like Tomb Raider and Return to Castle Wolfenstein or even Jedi Knight II: Jedi Outcast. 1/3 secrets found? What did I miss? Was is Armor or Shield? A power up I can use against a tough room? A gun you can get earlier than normal but need to ration the ammo for until it is more common?
I was born in 2005 and I freakin' love Quake 1, it has to be my all time favorite game ever created and I'm fascinated by how the game was designed and works. I've started working on my own Quake 1 maps since a month ago. I'm currently still learning most of the aspects in trenchbroom but i like it a lot so far.
Yes! Having to escape with the goods under full pursuit, maybe open up the level a bit more on the backtrack, sounds awesome. I mean you could always mix it up too. This one looks fun man, hope you get some support to make it your vision!
i absolutely love combining medieval themes with these sort of retro-style graphics, even better if you mix in horror and a vhs filter (in that case it doesnt even need retro-style graphics, just looking like one of those extremely old movies is enough to make me think "oh man, this is special"). maybe cause ive had similar dreams, but i just love that vibe in general. i also love darker levels from really old games, like the haunted mansion from super mario 64. it just gives me that surreal feeling that no modern horror movie can replicate. similar thing with halloween in general. it feels like the holiday has just carried the nostalgia and surrealism with itself throughout its existence. thats why, even though its not celebrated in my country, its my favorite holiday.
My biggest inspiration for old school levels is the modern Hocus Pocus doom. Old design philosophy with the classic looping around design. The bridge above you, you'll go there. The floor sinking into a whole new area. Everything is used and developed with limitations in mind. And that gives it such creative solutions to the geometry. But it's also beautiful and some of my favorite level design of any game ever. Even with looping texture blocks like the original Hocus Pocus on the PC. It still looks amazing and they mask the repetition very well. Especially with amazing texture work to simulate depth, transparency, shine and detail.
OMG... I didn't know there was such a thing as qodot! At the same time, I'm not studied Quake and Trenchbroom enough to know where this actually creates limitations to what can be created, even though I think its generally a huge benefit to be able to use that tool, since it made to quickly create maps.
I REALLY love the movement of the character. You have nailed wall-jumping and air-dashing perfectly in the example footage, I wish I could plug that movement into every shoot-em-up and every blood bath game. Highly recommend looking PSX type shaders or bit-crushed/jittery movement of characters and textures. Lower Resolution + Crunchy/Vertex Lighting might also give it a look closer to older games.
The escape sequence stuff, you can always have a single kind of enemy that becomes hostile the moment you claim an artifact, which may be an entirely optional bonus objective. bonus points if the enemies that become hostile have some cool theming, like statues that come alive, or crawl out of lava, or through windows, or something. So that a harmless feature of the level presents a brand new challenge
Yeah, I was sold on reactive level design by Sunlust. I think I might take a look at Qodot and TrenchBroom, I'm working on my own movement-focused FPS, although TrenchBroom might not have the kind of support for complex curves I need for my game's heelie-based gameplay.
What a throwback of a video. I used to make Quake2 maps and I had totally forgotten Wally but I remember using it. Wild to see you making maps in Trenchbroom for a new game, and on Godot! Good luck on the game! In my opinion Quake2 maps were a little better than Quake1 because they had really thought of a story element, but they were still full of secrets and crazy traps and reactive murderboxes.
@SummonLemming already said what I was thinking but I wanted to add on to it by pointing out that if you design your levels to be played in both directions you can really change the way the player looks at the game. Like let's say you give players a few stock-standard levels to play around with and get them used to the idea that they have to run back through them, then have a level that's just a huge pit. Getting down to the bottom will be easy, but when it's time to return to the top the player needs to fight against both gravity and new enemies. Knowing beforehand that they'll have to climb up out of the pit after they drop down into it might make them pay more attention to level geometry, working backwards from the top to find out what route they'll need to take back up when they get to the bottom. Just food for thought! Looking forward to playing
Verticality, interactivity and foreshadowing via ledges, or windows to other parts of the map are hallmarks of Quake mapping. The multiplayer maps made by American Mcgee (DM2 and DM4) are some of my favorite of all time. Good luck on the project.
The escape feature seems like it could be dope. That would give the levels a major objective to find object of interest and get out. It would become less about the combat and you might find players just moving past enemies to get to the object. It would need some balance for sure. If you do a back and forth style map, make sure the level is just as fun to play in reverse or set up a loop back to start. It could be cool to see windows and walkways that you can quite get to only to find yourself running through it in the second half of an escape. Digging the progress!
Thanks for the insight man! Agreed this is something I need to balance. >> It could be cool to see windows and walkways that you can quite get to only to find yourself running through it in the second half of an escape. Love that idea!
This is cool! Can you make the trick spiral staircase from Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade? Or howabout the fireplace? Also, on the exit level trigger; needing to flee after stealing an object is a good idea (again like Indy in the opening of Raiders) You could have a self destruct button where a new pathway to the exit opens up as the level shakes itself apart, or a lava level rises.
I remember somewhere, maybe a blog post, or maybe it was Yahtzee. Saying that old school shooter level design (which in my mind work much more like dungeon crawlers interactition and flow wise), worked more like a dialogue between dev and player, while today, a generic shooter talks at you, telling you what to do.
I love your game and I love everyone who is tryign to bring retro back. My particular nostagia was for RPGs where it actually felt like anything was possible within that admittedly low poly and low detail world and it's not possible for an indy team let alone a solo dev to make that, But all nostalgia is good nostalgia. Hence my rampage across youtube following everyone who's making games. I do want to point out a thought. Why does no one ever think about the middle ground between the modern extreme and the retro extreme? On one end we have modern games trying so hard to recreate a specific ultra realistic experience that they sometimes forget that they're a game and soposed to be fun. On the other hand we have retro games that were a game first but then never told you what to do or why you were doing it and kept their worlds very empty. What is the middle ground?... A world that feels alive despite being rendered in a retro style and being designed thinking of gameplay first. Much of what seems to be there just for aesthetics at first could actually be part of the gameplay. Much of what was added only for gameplay to work could be designed to make sense within the world as well. I'd love to see that maybe just a little bit more that I'd love for my retro rpgs to return.
Could make a mini boss for the relic stealing when they have to come back maybe a gate room that's unlocked when you first come through but locks all the gates when coming back . Also scripted boss scene destruction could be cool like a before and after fight or phase after like the floor breaking underneath you and the boss to a new part of the map
Hey great video, the game looks fast paced and really fun. Also if you want to use something similar to SD, material maker might be a good choice for your game.
8:56 movable objects like boxes and crates and bridges and shit that you can move around and manipulate to get to certain areas, for game progress or secrets ! =)
Here's ChatGPT suggestion: Certainly! Here are 20 unique level ideas for your dark fantasy fighting game: 1. **Haunted Cathedral**: A massive, gothic-style cathedral filled with ghosts and possessed statues. The layout is intricate, with hidden passages and secret chambers. 2. **Ancient Library**: A mystical library that houses powerful tomes and scrolls. The shelves are tall, and players can interact with books to reveal hidden spells or traps. 3. **Lava Forge**: A treacherous forge located in the heart of a volcano. Players must navigate catwalks over flowing lava while battling fire-themed enemies. 4. **Enchanted Forest**: A dense, magical forest filled with living trees and plants. Players can harness the forest's magic to gain abilities or summon creatures to aid them. 5. **Crystal Caverns**: An underground cave system adorned with glowing crystals. The crystals can be shattered to create blinding light or reveal hidden paths. 6. **Clockwork City**: A sprawling, steampunk-inspired city where gears and machines come to life. Players can manipulate the city's mechanisms to open new areas. 7. **Abyssal Abyss**: A level set in a dark, underwater abyss. Players must manage their oxygen supply while navigating through eerie shipwrecks and fending off aquatic horrors. 8. **Sky Citadel**: A floating castle in the clouds, where players must use floating platforms and air currents to traverse the level. 9. **Sorcerer's Duel**: A magical arena where players engage in a one-on-one duel against a powerful sorcerer, complete with shifting battlegrounds and spellcasting challenges. 10. **Giant's Workshop**: A massive workshop inhabited by giants, with oversized tools and machinery. Players can use these tools to their advantage in battles. 11. **Underworld Bazaar**: A bustling marketplace in the underworld where players can buy and sell items and engage in arena-style battles against other warriors. 12. **Mirror Maze**: A disorienting maze filled with mirrors that reflect and distort reality. Players must decipher the maze's tricks to progress. 13. **Ghost Ship**: A spectral pirate ship that sails through the ethereal seas. Players must battle undead pirates and navigate the shifting deck. 14. **Dragon's Lair**: A level set in the lair of a mighty dragon. Players can use the dragon's hoard and the environment to their advantage while avoiding the dragon's wrath. 15. **Mechanical Menagerie**: An abandoned amusement park filled with malfunctioning robotic attractions. Players can reprogram the robots to help or hinder their progress. 16. **Hedge Maze of Thorns**: A labyrinthine hedge maze filled with thorns and animated plants. Players must find their way through while avoiding deadly flora. 17. **Crystal Spire**: A towering crystalline spire rising from a bottomless abyss. Players must ascend the spire while battling crystal golems and avoiding deadly drops. 18. **Shadow Realm**: A dimension where players shift between light and shadow, affecting the environment and enemies' weaknesses. 19. **Eternal Nightfall**: A level set in a realm where it is perpetually night. Players must use bioluminescent flora and fauna to navigate and reveal hidden pathways. 20. **Temple of the Eclipse**: A temple where the alignment of celestial bodies affects the level's layout and enemy behavior, creating ever-changing challenges. These ideas should help you create memorable and diverse levels for your dark fantasy fighting game, each with its own unique twist and gameplay mechanics.
Understanding your enemies and where to place them in your map is key, Doom had incredibly simple enemies, but by merging hit scanners, with imps and pink demons in a way they synergized with each other is what made those older games special.
To make death feel less static, you should try doing what Ultrakill did where you become a ragdoll and continues to roll in the direction you were going upon death, this works well with the movement heavy gameplay and can make some funny moments. It would also be cool if enemies kept attacking your corpse for a minute before wandering back to their spot.
imagine diving towards an enemy, dying midair to an arrow or smth; and then your corpse takes out the enemy anyways since it was hurling at mach 4. though i doubt anyone will even stick around long enough to see details like this.
Love the idea of the pizza tower style ending. You should check out the quake 2 remaster. If youve not played it yet. Purely to see how its addition of the optional compass improves the game flow while still allowing for quake 2s extremely backtracky confusing maps. because thats always an option to add if you want more maze like levels without having to worry about players getting lost and quitting
Powerups and Secret rooms would be really cool. Keep up the great work man. And please please add the stelaing from the level to complete it. That'd be so cool
If you want to pay tribute to Hotline Miami, maybe one of the secrets could be a "chicken mode" powerup that swaps your sword for a baseball bat. Just cosmetic, but I think it'd be pretty funny.
