Britishmuzzleloaders Discussion: The Pattern 1908 to Pattern 1937 Transition: Why? 

They should have added a slight soundclip after he was done scrolling on his phone and started nodding.. the BoTR intro..

I second that, as I'm a history buff that casually makes old and obscure references/misunderstandings interspersed with contemporary ones! :)

@@Eledore Yep, dogedly sticking with it in the time honoured British way. :)

We aim to please!

@@BlokeontheRange Well then you could say your aim is as good when pleasing viewers as when you shoot at 300 meters with a naked K11. :D

@@BlokeontheRange I trust you were also aiming downrange

@@BlokeontheRange where would you want to be shot?

Well, there are plenty of us swiss over here!

That would be the French end of Switzerland of course

No way

I joined the Canadian Reserves in the last year they issued Battle and Bush Dress. The Battle Dress Blouse and Trousers buttoned together, creating a coverall effect. It was also the first time I experienced a button fly. Luckily I was also I was issued a combat uniform so I only worn Battle / Bush Dress in Garrison not in the field. About a year later Battle/Bush Dress was replaced with Canadian Forces Greens.

The Hype Is Real :D

You see some of the early war doctrine here: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-QOSf6aN3H2Y.html Later they'd carry it with a mag on and held at the hip on the sling, but it gives you an idea.

It just so happens I have a set of 44 pattern and a set of 58 pattern with exactly this in mind :)

Noice! 👍🏼 looking forward to seeing what ya got to say about them! I’ve got a set of pattern 58 webbing and I’ve just recently been getting into pattern 37. Thought it’s was pretty cool how the British were centered around the Bren. I was wondering how they were carrying ammo for the Enfield, so you did a great job clearing that up

@@BlokeontheRange Can't wait for the 58 Pattern video! I have a complete set minus the respirator case. My most compressed comment on it would be that I'm amazed at how fantastically flawed it is. How the British, who made at least two (I cannot comment on 44 Pattern) generations of excellent equipment prior to that, dropped the ball so hard on the follow up, is something I'm interested in your take on.

They both need bren guns

@@jellybryce7742 I don't think anyone could disagree with that notion. Heck, I need a Bren Gun too!

I get the joke, but Ian and Karl are taking about using a bolt gun in modern combat, I'm sure Rob is smart enough to more than fully understand that, which is why he discusses bolt guns in a historical setting.

@@MaxwellAerialPhotography I noticed how Rob described how the machinegun devolved lower and lower into the ranks, the adoption of a select-fire rifle was just the ultimate evolution.

@@dj1NM3 Good point.

@@sebastianbosek5222 See the new USMC Squad...

British had Vickers water-cooled machine gun , Bren Gun , Sten guns , Lancaster guns Surprisingly British produced more 30 cal Brownings in WW2 than Americans Britain produced 5,50,000 .303 Brownings machineguns but they only used these in aircrafts not on land even if they had available in stocks They also produced around 80,000 besa machineguns but only used on armoured vehicles There were 4 million stens but total US submachine guns were 1.8 million

AFAIK not at all - once you're carrying 3 of your own spare mags, you've got no room in the left pouch for anything else (and you've got pyro / bandoleer in the right again, but for your own use). Talking to guys who used L4 LMG's, it all went a bit German with the no.2 carrying mag boxes for this reason.

If you have ever had the dubious pleasure of using the old 58 large pack then you will observe two slim pockets on either side designed to carry 2 extra L4 magazines so yes it was intended for every man to carry 2 spares. Of course the 58 pouch was designed to take the L4 mag as that is what a gunner would be issued with as carrying equipment, everyone else with an L1A1 just had to go digging a bit deeper for that magazine. If you have to you can feed the L4 with SLR magazines (South Africa did this) and also the other way around. The L4 mag may not fuction as well in the SLR though due to lack of spring pressure. Also bear in mind that many other soldiers from all arms units were issued with the Sterling SMG which uses a long curved 34 round magazine.

yes it is 49 west Riding

Ausnahmebewilligung :) Not my BREN though, although I might be tempted!

It's the accent :p

facebook.com/The-Wirksworth-Gunroom-1575090222714930/

Thanks a lot bloke

I'd have to find some French, German and Russian re-enactors to do that.

@@BlokeontheRange Now That You've got one (a Frenchman in his 40s with his own LMG :) ), will you do this ?

It was more the fact that the FAL and MAG had just been adopted and Royal Ordnance now had enough .303 lying about spare to fight WWII several times over.

Are you referring to the revolver ammunition pouch? If so, it was issued to people armed with a revolver (officers, military police, certain specialists)

@@BlokeontheRange I'm not sure if it's a revolver pounch, it could be. It looks exactly like the double, but only has a single pouch. I thought it wide enough to take two clips, but maybe not. Sorry, to be vague I'm going from memory of the item that I've not seen since I was a teenager.

I'm not aware of a single rifle ammo pouch, sorry. It's possible someone cut a double down for their own needs at some point.

The BREN is not intended to be a sustained-fire weapon. It's an LMG. The sustained fire weapon was the belt-fed Vickers MMG.

You very occasionally see pouches used for non-standard mag-fed MG's, but not for the main 2 ones. LAter in the war you see belts draped over people's shoulders, largely made possible cos the MG42 is less ammo / dirt-sensitive.

@@BlokeontheRange thanks again

My team sergeant would have had me crucified if he ever caught me on my phone while "outside the wire". Can't speak for anyone else, but to say that it would be frowned upon is a bit of an understatement. A great effect of being shot at is the distinctive crack of a bullet flying past you. It's kinda hard to recreate that without expending live ammo. I believe the US military has lowered the ratio for ammo expended per enemy hit, but it's still a fantastic number (I think it is something like 1,000:1 for rifle-caliber). And yes, the 5.56x45 was adopted because it was so small and light. Whether a ship, truck, helo, airdropped pallet ... smaller bullet size = more delivered per cubic foot of transport space.