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00:05:46 Joerg, to make the test fully reliable and correct you should not FOLD the metal sheet ONLY cut it in smaller sheets and place on each other because folded sheet leaves space between layers and works as SPRINGS that absorb energy from the bolt thus the test is not quite reliable.
And one plate with 4 mm reacts completely different, than 4 layers with each 1 mm sheet. Because the broadhead can cut and deform 1mm, but never could cut and deform a 4 mm sheet. .
@@andersahlstroem6415 the idea of several layers in tanks is that the incoming projectile could turn between the layers, making it ineffective and shapecharges have a limited deph of penetration that can be used up with air as well as with steel. the mechanical stopping force of layers directly adjacent to each other is lower than the combined thickness in one plate. if you wear a layer of aluminium at a distance from your body that might be a (theoretically) good idea if you have the thickness that stops the arrow after 100mm it would be better to have the plate 100mm away from your body.
It would be interesting to see how much difference it makes if the steel was heat treated, as I doubt someone would use an untreated and soft steel plate in a vest.
I'm not sure how viable it would be to test, but creating a spaced armor plate might be interesting vs solid plates. You were already starting to create spaced armor plates by folding it, but in theory, having a small air gap between the plates could potentially give the arrow tip a chance to deform before penetrating every layer, redirecting some energy and potentially decreasing the bolts penetration value. As always, I always love your videos. :)
Stab testing uses a narrow ice pick like testing medium. Skinny blades will.needle through woven kevlar layers. Dyneema sheets have been used to make stab resistant inserts... much like the other commonly used ballistic material. Fused dyneema/spectrashield sheets, act like a cutting board.
I believe deformation is not the main factor, but the friction between arrow and plate while passing through the first layer until hitting the second layer is significant. I'm willing to bet there would be no to minimal penetration of the second plate if it is more than 10 cm away.
One plate with 4 mm reacts completely different, than 4 layers with each 1 mm sheet. Because the broadhead can cut and deform 1mm, but never could cut and deform a 4 mm sheet. .
I wonder if some kind of abrasive coating on an outer surface could be used to reliably blunt sharp edges of a fast object, potentially minimising its ability to cut through layers of kevlar?
@@GurtTarctor no, any effort to blunt such is ignoring the greater issue, the way pointy sharp things moving with enough force can needle their way through the kevlar. Same reason rifle bullets pass through kevlar like its not even there
In Australian jails the crims they use magazines open halfway tucked into there pants to stop the sharpened tooth brushs like a needle and it works well trust me
The cool thing about aluminum is it can have vastly different properties depending on alloy and manufacturing. So there may be a way to use even less, which would be a win since it so light.
Harden steel or high density steels work wonders for stopping broad heads , even high carbon steels work as well & thats plate steels less than a quarter of a inch .
There are differing hardness of aluminium if you were able to bend it easy without cracking you probably have something like 6082 , 7075 is very strong.
For piercing type attacks, hardness is key. Blade type weapons rely on the integrity of the tip/edge and the overall thinness of the blade, i.e. sharpness + surface area. Especially with regards to broadheads, they are not designed to penetrate hard surfaces, so they prioritize sharpness and thinness, at the cost of hardness and durability. If the tip impacts a sufficiently hard surface it will deform before it can pierce, and the blade edges will also be severely damaged, making most of the penetration effect being due to pure kinetic force punching through, rather than cutting through. Therefor a combination of a relatively thin sheet of hard steel combined with the normal aramid fiber vest, could produce significantly superior results vs just the sheet of metal alone.
7 mm in single sheets behave different to a solid 7mm plate of aluminium. Try to test that, you'll be surprised of the difference it makes. The main thing a hard body armor relies on is rigidity and hardness. So for example 7 pieces of 1 mm aluminium sheet rather bend under pressure than a solid 7 mm piece. And if you would take either the 7, 1 mm pieces or the 7 mm plate and work harden them, you will get different results again. Also to stop a broadhead or any arrow for that matter, I'd rather use cut resitant fabric like UHMWPE or polycarbonate which is also lighter than steel or aluminium. Because as you know for example with polycarbonate, it want's to close around the arrow shaft and creates friction. Metal for that matter, especially in thin sheets like you tested simply will bend away and make space for the shaft to pass further through. To just stab proof a kevlar west, just resort to some chainmail. If it's professionaly made and costs don't matter, Titanium (grade 5) is the best choice. 3 mm thick chain links are more than enough. If costs matter, a high quality spring steel will protect you just as good.
A composite of a low density plastic, 6000/7000 series aluminum and carbon steel would probably work. I want the “stab” to stick in the plastic and have the under layers prevent penetration. Glancing or “spalling” off armor can be just as lethal to you and bystanders.
Das war wieder sehr interessant, danke. Interessant wäre ein Vergleich mit modernen Stichschutzwesten aus Titanfolien, Kettengeflecht und den Armadillotex Kunststoffschuppen. Diese würde eine Flexibilität gewährleisten.
und wenn wir schon mal dabei sind: Stichschutzeinlagen. Die soll es dienstlich auch schon seit Jahren geben. Erzählen zumindest die Alten am Lagerfeuer ;)
@@watchingbrain Du willst damit sagen, dass die Polizisten mit Sichtschutzeinlagen ausgestattet sind? Das ist nur sehr bedingt so, vermutlich haben etwa die Hälfte der Polizisten keine Stichschutzeinlagen.
@@tactical-dad Unterzieh-Schutzwesten mit taktischer Wechselhülle sind zumindest bei der BPOL/BKA nahezu Standard, LAPO Sachsen, Saarland und viele weitere Behörden (auch Ordnungsämter :D) sind entweder mit der Beschaffung schon seit Jahren fertig oder kurz davor es für operative Einheiten durchzubringen. Es ist sicher noch genügend Raum nach oben was die Ausstattung der Polizeien / Behörden angeht, jedoch würde ich deine Schätzung mit 50% so nicht unterschreiben ;)
Guter Test. Könntest du auch Titanplatten probieren? Sauteuer das Zeug aber ich glaube das wird die Pfeile stoppen. Ein anderer schöner Test wäre selbst eine Verbundplatte aus dünnem Blech und Aramid/Kevlar herzustellen. Also z.B. Blech-Kevlar-Blech-Kevlar-Blech. Das ganze einfach mit Kontaktkleber verbinden. Ich denke durch die Gewebelagen würde der Pfeil stärker abgebremst, und das Blech könnte nicht so einfach nach hinten "verschwinden".
Titan wollte ich auch vorschlagen. (Du warst schneller) Mehrere Lagen Titanfolie oder Dünne Bleche. Leider ist das Zeug nicht billig. Und mal eben zuschneiden ist auch nicht so einfach.
The other thing we learn is that if you need this for defense, you want the broadhead. It penetrated as far as the bodkin, and would do more cutting upon reaching the target flesh.
I use Truglo Titanium X mechanical broadheads for tactical purposes. I cut off the “push tab” so they just go straight in without opening. But the cutting width is still a bit wider than the broadhead arrows from gogun, and they fly straighter because much of the mass is out ahead of the blades.
Interessant wäre der Test mit Kriegsspitzen gewesen. Welche ja eine Kombination von Jagd- u. Bodkinspitzen sind. M. M. n. müssten diese die beste Zielwirkung haben.
I'm going to test this with Siege and 3 kinds of UHMWPE materials: 300g/m2 knit cut proof fabric, 900g/m2 ballistic felt and 3mm PE-1000 sheet plastic.
It's probably easier to penetrate separate sheets then one solid plate with an arrow. They're easier to bend and displace around the projectile. It's not a shape charge.
i would advise to try a 6mm 2017A in T451 temper alluminium alloy plate, and add a 1mm AISI 304 stainless steel plate in front of it. if you can acess a martensitic type of steel, try 2mm of AISI440C or AISI 4140 or 4340 with a proper heat treatment (above 30HRC, preferably in the 45~50HRC range)
Awesome video.... Now you will need to re-design a shield using Kevlar (or other bullet stopping material) and incorporate the steel into it... :) You used mild steel - May I suggest testing spring steel that is tougher, elastic and would be better (and thinner)? Also maybe adding a thin layer of thick dense plastic between the steel layers would be beneficial? what about Leather? Fascinating test and absolutely impressive crossbows... :)
Common Plates for bulletproof Vests are made of Titanium or Ceramic. They both having a better weight performance ratio as Aluminium or Steel. I for myself would prefare a vest made of dragonskin.
For complex material science reasons, multiple thin plates are less efficient than a thicker plate of equivalent thickness at stopping projectiles. So a 4 or 5mm aluminium plate might do the job of 4x1mm + 2x1.5mm. Similarly, I don't think any crossbow bolt will go through a 3mm mild steel plate. Finally, as others have pointed out, properly hardened and tempered carbon steel plates are an order of magnitude stronger than mild steel, to the extent that a 1.5-2mm plate of AR400 or similar would probably make you proof against anything crossbow-related.
This is what I suspect as well. I know The Knight and the Blast Furnace isn't perfect, but an arrow-type projectile with only 75 J or so going through a 3mm mild-steel plate seems wild.
Interessant. Wie wirkt sich die Pfeillänge bzw. das Gewicht des Pfeils auf die Durchschlagskraft aus? Die Maße hinter der Spitze sollte doch neben der Geschwindigkeit die Durschlagskraft maßgeblich beeinflussen, oder?
Привет из России, классный ролик с сравнением арбалетов, у меня тоже cobra. Есть мечта иметь в арсенале siege 300,как у тебя 🙂. Да и вообще красиво у тебя цветочки, крепость. Молодец 👍👍👍
Die Siege hat ja schon den 170 Pfund Compound Bogen drinnen der durch die Compound art noch knapp 15 % mehr Leistung aufweist. Das mit der Adder und 190 Pfund hätte das Ergebnis kaum noch beeinflusst.✌️
In the late 1800s ( not sure exactly but around the civil war or indian wars ) the US army wanted a bullet proof vest they tried powdered glass it Would stop bullets but not arrows
Important to note that the steel is non-hardened, likely low carbon and the performance could be improved with the right kind of material treated correctly. Aluminum can be hardened slightly but more likely an armor plate will be aluminum alloy and will perform better.
I'v got this 80 pound pistol cross bow , with normal arrows went straight through this table and into the fence lol . Definitely not a toy , I think the stock makes them shoot heaps more straight also . Just as dangerous as a 22 bullet I think . Obviously doesn't travel as fast tho .
Would laminating the metal sheets with double stick tape between layers improve vs penetration? That seems more predictable than an air gap and possibly would absorb more impact energy.
Hey Joerg a couple of tweaks mite get you better results first the arrow tip use single bevel broad heads 2nd sand the back end of the arrow down a bit so you get a slight taper (thinner) towards the back end 3rd put a coating of silicone on arrow shaft and broad head to for less friction. and for materials see if you can get a hold of M.I.T. Super Plastic. 2 times stronger than steel or a material called Galvorn . OR NASA Armor or Graphene rubber. test out some new exotic materials.
With arrows maybe try some kind of foam rubber? If you think of a knife as more of a projectile (same as the arrows) then might work. Most projectiles have difficulty moving through fluids that are as viscous as water and more so. The more viscous (foam rubber) the shorter the travel.
Ist das nicht ein großer physikalischer Unterschied, ob man z.B. 6 x 1mm Platten in mehreren Lagen oder 1 x 6mm Platte als Widerstand nutzt? Ich meine, so ähnlich funktioniert doch auch der Karate-Trick mit 20 Holzplatten durchschlagen. Wäre interessant da mal einen Unterschied auszutesten.
@@Seth722772 the adder is if anything to powerful the adder is ok cocking but anymore powerwould be a real struggle for me but i can assure you that the adder with broadheads would have no issue going thru 5 tshirts a thick leather jacket and your ribs and into your lungs it is seriously a monster i highly recommend it
Hey joerge these broadheads are they as reliable as the green vane ones? I cant find them anywhere anymore im guessing these are the new and improved replacement?
Das weiß ich gar nicht so genau, ich glaube da gibt es viele Varianten. Ich hatte mal eine billige Stichweste von amazon hier, da war ein Alublech (2mm) und eine Plastikscheibe drin. Konnte man mit einem beherzten Stich perforieren.
Ist es möglich eine Schleuder zu bauen die sich drehende Projektile schießt(Steine, Kugeln usw) würde das die Durchschlagskraft erhöhen? Hab mir gedacht einen kleine gummisack den man dehnt und dreht und dann an 2/4 Gummibändern befestigt, so dass der Sack sich ausgedreht hat kurz bevor die Kugel die Schleuder verlässt, bevor die Bänder von der Dreh Bewegung des Sacks mitgedreht werden
Natürlich würde das die Durchschlagskraft nicht im allergeringsten erhöhen. Wieso auch? Die Bewegungsenergie wird errechnet aus dem Quadrat der Geschwindigkeit mal der halben Masse. Ob die Masse sich dreht hat physikalisch absolut Nullkommanull Einfluss.
@@riffinator73 Korrekt. Weil die extrem schnelle Rotation dem Geschoss ein enorm hohes Trägheitsmoment gegen ein verlassen der geraden Flugbahn verleiht.
Comment about the video first. A) How would those bolts deal with a 30-layer gambeson, which were meant to be "arrow proof", because that might be another option to counter stab/puncture threats. So multiple layers of Kevlar and what not. (Maybe some inner layers of Nomex, which is stab resistant IIRC.) Because that shouldn't up the weight of those vests by the amounts that those armour plates would. B) Only semi-related to the video, but I'm curious nonetheless. Could something like the Adder or Siege (or even that Siege Adder you're working on) be made from wood, metal or bone and be limited to say late Medieval/early Renaissance tech levels? We know that the Chinese Repeaters never took off due to lack of power and range, something the modern concept interpretations don't suffer from. And Leonardo Da Vinci's rapid fire crossbow doesn't seem to have gotten a fair shake either, despite there being a, think it was, 3 to 1 reload difference with the standard winched versions of the time at similar draw weights. So kinda wondering if something like the crossbows I mentioned could've even have been made and if their performances would've still outperformed the local versions. Makes for an interesting What-if question, as well as how much of a butterfly effect that would've had on the tech development at the time (slowdown on handheld firearms development?).
Titan ist sehr stabil, leicht und Bleche in der Größe bekommt man selbst auf Ebay. Sind natürlich deutlich teurer als Stahl oder Alu. 3cm Papier würde den Bolzen auch stoppen.(Telefonbuch zB). Ich habe für die Heimverteidigung einen 2mm dicken Stahlschild (Nachbau aus dem 12. Jahrhundert). Damit ist man schon recht sicher, wenn man in der rechten Hand dann noch eine Waffe trägt.
Kommt auf die Rüstung und das Jahrhundert an. Und vor allem war eine „Ritterrüstung“ durch die Form dafür ausgelegt, daß sie Pfeile, Bolzen und sogar Kugeln aus Handbüchsen aufhalten kann.
Maximal 3mm an der Brustplatte, Arme unter 1mm. Allerdings ist ein flaches Blech einfacher zu durchschlagen als eine gekrümmte Rüstung ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-ds-Ev5msyzo.html Wohl der beste öffentliche Test zu dem Thema Pfeile gegen Ritterrüstung des 15.Jahrhunderts. Langbögen hatten kaum eine Chance Brustplatten zu durchschlagen, Von z.b 11kg schweren Wallarmbrüsten, welche wohl nur zur Verteidigung bei Belagerung genutzt wurden, waren Armbrüst nicht stärker wegen der geringen Zuglänge.
