Hi Mischa; I appreciate your view and experience with sporty cars. If you could choose to own a 991.2 GT3 or 992.1 GT3 to drive on street (fun on weekends) and of course drive on Nürburgring > which one would you take and why (let's forget the price difference between 991.2 and 992)? I saw online (Rennlist) a lot of people prefer the 991.2 GT3 for having a more pure driving + more involvement and wondered if you share this opinion? Thank for the reply ;)
In meinen Augen ist der 992.2. GT3 (Touring, ich sehe keinen Grund warum ich den mit Flügel kaufen sollte) ein echter Fortschritt, da er die zwei Punkte beseitigt, die mich bislang davon abgehalten haben GT3 zu fahren: zu harte Federung und keine Rücksitze. Nun ist der Wagen fit für den Alltag. Der Preis ist allerdings eine Unverschämtheit und treibt mir die Tränen in die Augen. Dass das Auto nicht mehr Leistung hat, ist mir egal, denn mit einem Turbomonster a la McLaren könnte es mit 50 PS mehr auch nicht mithalten, also was solls. Gut wäre es in meinen Augen gewesen, wenn Porsche endlich eine Notbremsfunktion wie im normalen 992 für das Auto anbieten würde, denn Sicherheit geht vor. Ansonsten, nix zu meckern von meiner Seite. Klar wäre es schön, wenn die 911 insgesamt wieder kleiner werden könnten, mehr so wie Cayman, ist aber technisch nicht machbar.
With current EU legislation, the nicest and coolest cars are already out there. Everything from now on is just a big compromise. Cars will still probably get faster, but not cooler or more enjoyable
We said that when OPF came around and everybody was worried. There are 991.2 RS‘s with and without OPF and then there is the 992.1 with OPF and all of them sound incredibly good and perform nonetheless.
The new Touring is a huge win in my opinion - like AP said it’s about 85% S/T. You still won’t be able to buy one without buying 5 Taycans first but hey… it is what it is.
They need to improve margins for their shareholders, they are a listed company now and the stock is down almost 50% since mid 2023. That's the sad truth...
Honestly Misha, no car maker can escape economy or regulations. And why is it a bad thing if parts are shared across models? I'm with Chris Harris here, you don't get out of a GT3 and say "I wish it had more power". I think it's about time we appreciate what we have because it is bloody good and it's going to be over some day.
I think Misha is appreciative but wants more of a wow element. I miss older BMW Ms where with each new model the engine was the spectacle - something special - what could have they done to make the GT3 more special? (other than giving rear seats that I am thrilled about!)
I dont care if they dont change a single thing except for changing the generation from .1 to .2. It just means they have kept making the best sports car for another generation. I just got a manual 991.1 and it’s my poor man’s gt3 touring. I adore it. Happy to see a continuation of the gt3. The touring looks absolutely incredible.
+100 - I got myself a 997.2 GTS (I have the need to see an engine when I pop the trunk) - a poor man's GT3 touring indeed - more car than what I would ever need!
The screen is Horific. We want the SHAPE OF GUAGES not our home television screen or reminders of its shape in our face while we are trying to relax or unwind. It’s like the vision impaired that designed the new 7 series got fired and found their way into the Porsche interior design team, and we all suffer for it.
The market was greedy, dealers and first buyers markups, Porsche is only pocketing it right away now, can’t blame them, if there is not enough competition they will do that, pure free market dynamics.
The GT3 buyers at 992.1 original $160k price are the real winners. Mid cycle $20k price jump. Not $40k price jump to 992.2. In essence, $60k price jump from 992.1 launch to 992.2 launch.
And to think there were actual videos claiming that this would drive prices down for the 992.1 and 991.2 because people would want this new one. Ummmm.
This platform/drivetrain is obviously at the limit. Although dinamically inferior to the latest cars, I have always preferred the "older" 997 and 991.2 (manual only) models. Anyway, we as car enthusiast have to be thankful for cars as these to exist at all when you consider all the BS the green bastards are throwing at us. Cheers!
I disagree, I don’t think we’re at the limit yet. But I guess we’ll have to wait and see what the next generation brings. That will be the ultimate test
i can understand why Porsche hasn't changed anything much, because so many people are always complaining about how the new model is shit, but in reality some people need a lot of time to get used to the new things and then after a few weeks or months they like it, But that's all just an illusion because the manufacturers always change so much from the older model that we immediately say it doesn't look good
I have a strange feeling with the aftermarket the 992.2 might be a better platform because it has better cams, reworked intake that is supposedly better, shorter gear ratio ect. Then again I'm in the US where OPF delete and secondary cat delete won't trigger a violation as long as the primary cat and o2's are still there.
I’m sure they’d love to, but unfortunately EU regulators are under the impression that they can solve climate change/global warming or whatever by choking the flat six engine in 911 GT3’s meanwhile cargo ships, jet airplanes, and semi trucks have virtually zero emissions regulations 👌
You are 100% correct, it’s a worse car in every way where we see change. Even the stupid folding bucket seats are awful compared to the 992.1 beautiful fixed carbon buckets now we get ugly M3 seats and are suppose to pretend this an upgrade gtfo.
@@khoimavlogs5161imagine talking about politics on a video from a Russian guy talking about a German car, and then also being factually wrong (Dow had one of its strongest years). You us-Americans can be really funny sometimes 😂
I dont understand feeling "disappointed". Its still a great car, and it HAS been improved in incremental ways. The sorter gearing for instance is a huge win from a small change. The backseats in the Touring variant really improves the livability. Not every refresh has to be a generational leap when the car is already so good.
Happy to see that I’m not the only one thinking this. In fact, I believe the criticisms are becoming quite numerous on social media. I fully agree with your analysis-there hasn’t been any significant improvement, and I’d even say that the 8% gain ratio increase seems like a way to compensate for having four catalytic converters instead of two now. Apart from the slightly improved interior aesthetics, I completely share your opinion that Porsche’s only concern seems to have been cutting costs as much as possible, which in no way justifies the excessive price of this car. I’m also wondering if the excessive price is, in a way, Porsche’s not-so-hidden admission that this might be the last model of its kind. It feels like they’re marking the occasion with this pricing, perhaps anticipating a future decrease in production. Porsche’s communication is very lackluster, and the presentation was rather joyless. There’s been no real discussion of the car’s performance figures, which makes me think Porsche is well aware they’ve reached the limit with this product. I’m almost certain that this will be the last 100% naturally aspirated engine they produce.
For potential GT3 buyers it‘s a much better deal to simply buy a used low mileage 992.1 GT3 for much less money. It comes even cheaper than the latest GTS. Additionally you don‘t need to beg Porsche for an allocation or go through Porsche Financing. After all, you can buy a used GT3, get a Manthey package and still be cheaper off
Have you lot ever sat and wonder what cars will be like in 2 decades from now? Sit yourself down and thank Porsche for still making these cars. What are you disappointed about in this car? Looking at all the regulations these guys have to defeat and still make a car like this. Buy something else or go after something else. The ethos is Porsche has always been driving dynamics, and they deliver on it. Any manufacturer can slap turbo 1 million horse power car. Then what? Are we trying to fly cars or make them become rockets. Bunch of chatter around these car reviewing guys is getting on my nerves. Lol. We get that you guys are trying to earn RU-vid money via gullible individuals who purchase the items from these adds.
The digital gauge has grown on me. Being able to keep the tach in the middle, but do something like having redline at 12 o'clock is pretty cool. I also never understood the hate for push button start. When all of the hypercars in the early 2,000s started having them, it represented a badass advancement in performance. Somehow we collectively decided that they're junky?
I would have been disappointed if they changed the design. Just look at it, its perfect. If you want to complain, make a video about the new Ferrari F80. Regulations and inflation is something Porsche is not responsible for.
Love my 991.2 I bought way back in May 2016. It still ticks all the boxes for me. The whole 992 line kind of left me cold. I love the downforce of the GT3 RS but really that is a track thing.
What I'm hearing is they played it safe with this one... they cut cost where they can, tried to improve reliability a little bit, bumped the price up because _new shiny_ Apple model and called it a day
If the price increase resulting a narrower gap between msrp and market value. This could deter flippers, and gives the genuine customers a better chance to spec & purchase their dream GT3. Then I welcome the price increase.
I think Porsche is following the formula of "If it ain't broke don't fix it", because a lot of people know that the 992.1 GT3 is already near perfection, so they just changed some bits and did some minor improvements mechanical wise. Talking about the engine is to the big thanks to emission norms it's very difficult to make power😔
I can’t get over that the car is allegedly 100 lbs due to some crash structure modifications needed to be added because of the available rear seating. I have owned several GT3’s and even regular 911’s are absolutely miserable for anyone to ride in the back, but a GT3 is borderline cruel and unusual punishment to ride back there for any reason. I guess it will help some guys sell the idea of GT3 ownership to their wives but everyone else suffers
For me, 992.2. just got nice wheels and half roll cage on CF, other thing have to confirm... less torq is sad, seats sad to for me, signals sad to, honestly 992.1 still nicer, just available to do some goodies magnesium wheels, CF roll cage,
if you actually watch Seen Through Glass video on GT3, Jorg says there will be no "official lap time" for 992.2 GT3 (they already attempted lap record for internal purposed at the ring)
Hmm money saving by using RS / ST parts isn’t a bad thing! Wing profile is different. Suspension arms provide 40kg downforce at top speed etc. I still prefer the Touring changes for the road - everything on my wish list tbh. Remove 2 Cats and you have the RS output etc. road wins: shorter gearing to use rpm, suspension compliance, ICE.
i do get what you mean many brand did this , Porsche did fall for the remaking the same thing , if they do that they improve the product over all but here, i was like meeh at the end, i did like it but the improvement index is minimalistic if not almost unexistant. i mean most brands do this but Porsche in every special edition they trend to include tech for future models, example ( 911 turbo s exclusive series using a similar powertrain as the actual 992 turbo s) and the examples you did mention but here i don't know it doesn't feel like the improve this model.
The .2 is a big improvement for the touring. The wing car is just subtle refinements to keep it in line with the .2 Carrera updates and they are fighting the emission regulations to stay at the same hp level. I think the 992.1 was the peak for GT3. We may never see big improvements again.
TBH I've had enough of all OEMS charging a lot more for their cars and then also increasing the APR of finance whilst also maintaining the same residuals of models is absurd and greedy.
Meanwhile GM offers a NA V8 that sounds like Ferrari and handles almost just as well. While being more comfortable on the road. Oh and it can keep up with GT3rs on any track all for 120k 😂
That is one ginormous increase in price from 992.1 compared to 992.2. And I thought the increase on a 911 T from one year to the next was huge. Apparently not compared to this. Sheesh.
Misha, your opening thoughts are exactly the same that I thought...underwhelming. every generation prior there is an upgrade. I don't see it here. Now having said that it is an amazing car...but give me something to be excited about. personally increase in hp like previous versions needs to come at this time...gt3's need to be bumpin 560-580hp. Make it happen Porsche
No, I agree!!! that's pretty ineresting how they just "undercut" the 911 ST's value by offering the 992.2 with a manual transmission. Like if I spent money on an ST last year I'd be pretty upset.
It's always been available with manual gearbox both gt3 and touring? The lower final drive will be to mitigate a potential slight torque drop. It won't get the S/Ts light flywheel
It's only worth it if you get the top of the line Weissach Package or Touring Lightweight Package, I don't think you'll be so disappointed if you drive either one.
I'm very satisfied by Porsche - not disappointent at all. It's perfect how it was, and they kept that. Just a facelift, nobody is asking for a major overhaul. They kept the flat 6 n/a, no hybridization at all, that alone is a goated move for 2025. Tweeked the suspension, made it more comfortable, improved the gearing, made a few changes on the exterior and interior and they offer a Weissach Pack for purists or backseats in the touring. Yeah I quiet disagree with this video, beside the argument of the analog tach. That I strongly agree, should have remained a real needle. For me, one of the rare great cars of this year. After all it's just a facelift. Some time ago that meant new head and tail lights, new infotainment - that's it.
Cost saving screens etc on a £200,000 sprts car 🤮 Can we get rich people to lobby governments for relaxed emissions regulations instead of the other way around? Private companies jets etc and manufacturing in India and China do 1000x more damage to the environment and CO2 levels than personal vehicles.
I love the GT3RS and if I bought a Porsche(and I will), that's the one I'd buy. But I disagree with you about it being the best bang for the buck. That would be a Corvette Z06/ZR1. I hope my stepfather buys the Vette so we have both in the family.
While I understand the disappointment from an evolution standpoint. See it this way: this car is Porsche’s proof that they can make such a car with modern constraints, and in that regard they really succeed in keeping sports cars great in 2024 and onwards. If they can keep previous iterations’ performance, manual transmission, etc into this decade of tough emissions standards, that’s a win for all of us car fans.
I was expecting them to put at least a 4.2 litre engine in there. But now I agree with you, Misha. They could have applied for an emissions exemption. Because I don't think they make more than 1,000 a year.
In my opinion for petrolheads there will be a general tendency in going back in the years concerning the choice of a “new” car and not only for Porsche’s cars. Euro 6d is the last acceptable emissions norm in general with the exception of some Euro 6d-temp models until 2022, afterwards it’s BS.
I think the new GT3 Touring with the S/T like suspension tuning and rear seats is an improvement overall in nearly everyway. It is a lot more expensive and losses the analog tach (I will have to see it before making a judgement). The 992.1 GT3 had $25k to $40k ADMs, so it made sense for Porsche to increase the price significantly. I hope they make more of them this time. It looks good on the front and back
Wing is slightly different, the endplates curve outward but yeah otherwise the same. I think they were hamstrung by the emissions shit but I think it would've been the perfect time to do some kind of DRS for the rear wing, would've got people a lot more excited and a proper .2
The front suspension redesign(992.1) was a huge improvement compared to smaller changes over the past few generations. the next model is obviously going to be a hybrid which, if weight is controled, will be a big change. The only thing the engine lacks is torque below 4 or 5k rpm. Development needs to continue with the production models before it is ready for the GT models.
It's the same with every modern car they are getting cheaper in terms of build quality and engineering and covered in more cheap plastic yet more expensive to buy so the manufacturers can make even more of a profit. Which is why everyone should stick to buying older cars mainly from the 90s when they were built and over engineered
Huge disappointment when you hear AP talking about gizmos and configurations (on a GT3!) and not REAL improvements . Maybe the Touring now makes more sense over the full beans GT3.
This happens since it’s almost impossible to get one - and the people that do get an allocation are just spec queens and don’t truly care about the car. Proof is all the cars flooding dealerships and online like BaT with zero to 100 miles on them. Porsche sees all the money being left on table - and as mentioned all the strict emissions hitting them - so it’s a cash grab on many fronts. It’s all crap - just takes a few people to ruin it for everyone else.
my first thought was that if you get the S/T driveline in generic GT3 - its great for new GT3 owners but kind of boring for guys who bought the rare S/T. So better package with less money. But, didn't understand the new engine has less Nm's. Hmm..
At the new price it's very easy to spend more on a GT3 than a base GT3RS. Not quite the same value bargain it was in 2021, especially considering you could've bought a GT3 and a C8 Stingray for the base price of the GT3 today.
@@melaniezimmermann-jv7th I am. The C8 is a lot more expensive in Europe so I see how this comparison wouldn't be as realistic outside of the US market, but still a large price jump regardless.
I know for one thing is that Matt Farrah and Zac from The Smoking Tire RU-vid channel are going to LOVE the shorter gear ratios in the GT3 because he's been always complaining about the tall gear ratios when driving in the canyons at Malibu where he could only use 2nd and 3rd everywhere.
Tbh - I think the 992.2 Touring is a now really compelling product. The "regular" Gt3 is a bit in between seats. Everyone knows there is going to come out a 992.2 GT3 RS (for the race-focused) and at some point maybe even an MR version. So yeah. Love the Touring but the "regular" Gt3 is yeah... for everyone who can't get an RS
Yeah sounds impossible, yet with Christina Ann Tucker, I've come to the conclusion that financially anything is possible. I got my self my dream car 🚗 just last weekend and a whooping $320k in savings already, My journey with her started after my best friend came back from New York and saw me suffering in debt then told me about her and how to change my life through her. Christina A. Tucker is the kind of person one needs in his or her life! I got a home, a good wife, and a beautiful daughter. Note!:: this is not a promotion but me trying to make a point that no matter what happens, always have faith and keep living!!
Almost fully agree with Misha, but regarding price increase, I have to defend Porsche (factory) - Dealers in USA and GB increased prices a lot for the allocations. Porsche said: now we earn that money, not the greedy dealers 😐
I didn’t realize that this has less torque than the 992.1. The 992.1 gear ratios are already shortened significantly than the 991.2. I may be biased (currently own a 992.1 3 RS), but I do not plan on upgrading to a .2 given what I have seen so far from the 992.2 GT3 release. I wonder if we can expect the same from the 992.2 GT3 RS when they release that.
Personally im a fan of the updated look, I already loved the lines of the 992.1 so for me the subtle changes are perfect. But this does seem to be a more minor upgrade than we’re used to within a generation.
About the new suspension, on the Porsche website it says that it now adds 40kgs more downforce at top speed (suspension alone). Maybe the car does actually produce more downforce, lets hope so
methinkz that people that buy these cars at such a high premium are the same guys who buy concert/sports tix for exhorbitant prices ! AND yes ,nobody needs more than 500bhp on street but also, nobody needs to be paying said premiums for 500bhp either.
They did the best they could given the emissions requirements. NA power is much hard to make when you’ve got meet increasingly restrictive emissions requirements. Can’t just turn up the boost. They’ll have no problem selling every single one of them.
You should come to Brussels and see what laws they have here with low emission zones. If you buy a 992.2 gt3 you won’t be able to drive in the city after 9 years... Also, the extra money is probably the cost of the two extra cats…
Maybe in this case, the dealers won’t make as much but Porsche corporate will. People are paying around $230k-250k for 22-23 GT3s anyway (ADM of $30k+ on used models), now the .2 GT3 that’s not much different than .1, will be closer to .1 price the consumer ends up paying.
I wish it would have been hybrid done like the 918. I am pretty sure they could have overcome some of the emissions hurdles that way. And made a more exciting addition to the GT3 line…….
Honestly why the hell would you need to save money, on the dials, on a flippin sportscar, its already expensive as hell, let us have that at least. Big Porsche fan here too, as you can maybe guess by my profile picture and I too am disapointed in this new GT3
I think Porsche thought people would appreciate the features of the S/T and GT3RS at a relatively lower price. so they thought its reasonable to raise the price.
I think, If you buy a 911 Misha, it should be a 997 Cup car converted for the road, not a new 911. You can probably drive a new one any day, and everyday.
It’s a pure cash grab by Porsche. For the first time the GT3 is more expensive in the US than Canada. While the Canadian dollar is worth 70 cents US. Porsche didn’t even hide that. Nobody charges more for doing nothing
Why would you want to change Perfection? If it ain’t broke don’t fix it. Next thing you know if they decided to change it and add a hybrid system with a lower revving engine and quieter sound lots of you will be crying. I’m glad they did just minor changes nothing really needed to be done
