bts and "k-pop without the k" 

Good point! I’m 68 yrs old and even I knew who he was.

Not everyone knows y'know? This is literally the most irrelevant thing you took from the video but sure.

@@thvsblanket Hardly irrelevant. If you're so bold to claim yourself an expert in music you should be able to recognize a very famous musician. You most likely do not tout yourself as an expert, so you possibly not knowing doesn't ring the same as someone ignorantly claiming to be an 'expert'.

​@@thvsblanket I didn't know who he was either, but she shouldn't claim to be a 'music expert' if she doesn't know someone as famous as Steve Aoki.

@@thvsblanket i was just commenting as the video went on 😭 and i'm from peru and i know who steve aoki is, every person around my age knows who he is. edm went big in the mid 2010's and steve aoki has more than a few hits. regarless, if people don't know who he is that's completely fine, but it's different when a music expert is the one saying that

Same

This Aussie never listened to it either. Until Dynamite made me check out a couple of their other songs and those are the ones that made me ARMY.

me too! @@nikki4noo

You are on the right track.. K-Pop songs are rubbish .. BTS songs are on another level 😅💜!!

I don’t listen to kpop either, only BTS as well. I got into BTS because of dynamite. And it’s not because dynamite is their best song or anything, but it’s the only song I Heard on the radio from them otherwise I wouldn’t have even discovered them. So in that sense, dynamite did it’s job. I ended up diving into their music, and especially love their B sides, the songs that mainstream radio will probably never play and are missing out on. But back to kpop, the only other group I’ve been listening to is new jeans. They do have some good songs I must say, where it has melody and not using random gibberish words

I laughed when they said "we're grown ups", could've fooled me since they talked like mean girls in high school.

with a side of ignorance and shit research

..and promoting such obvious bias is terrible journalism...

Shabbbash. ❤❤❤🙂🤌🤌🙂😭😍🙂

​@@crystalsnow1138 Just mean people. Girls in high school are not necessarily like that. This is one more reason why haters shade BTS . 'Teen girls like them' as if being teen or being girl makes their choice of liking BTS a silly thing. This prejudice against teen girls is a ploy to invalidate their existence. Please try not to be part of such prejudice.

I spat out my tea. She went for the neck.

😂😂😂 u are funny bestie

She never fails at clocking these people 😭😭😭

she brilliant @@hyemyg8406

That's pretty kind of her. We all know that KPOP only gets 1 per year lolol

Completely agree

yes it's like crabs in a bucket they pull each other down when trying to reach the top. In other words they stab each other in the back and then are left in on their own in the bottom of a hugh pit they'll ever escape from. Locked in their tiny world at the bottom.

@@eileencritchley4630 reminds me of ddaeng ( bit those were frogs in a well 😄 )

@@7toheavan4ever54 yes frogs in the well and crabs in a bucket depending were in the world you come from but it's the same sentiment. However the frog in the well is more akin to the Big fish an a small pond. The fish and the frog see themselves as the big thing yet are not really and need to get out of their small pond/well in order to see how small they are and how big the world is. While the crabs in the bucket don't care for each other they are only out for themselves so instead of helping each other out of the bucket they bascially pull each other back down and none of them escape so the crab catcher gets to eat them all.

I wouldn't call all of kpop nonsensical. There are great korean artists who shouldn't be stereotyped because of weird quirky title tracks in kpop. There are excellent b sides lyrics production and composition in kpop - take it from a classical musician of 13 years. Just like bts music shouldn't be stereotyped as mainstream just because of dynamite or butter. I think bts are one of the greatest artists in the world, to make it clear. But kpop shouldn't be put down to promote bts.

That's true! I do listen to kpop but I have to admit you're absolutely right

I've heard of big bang, but BTS is the only group I listened to outside of the bands i grew up listening to here in the US

agreed, i listened to kpop far before finding bts (since 2012) and that was only bc i had korean friends who introduced it to me. even THEN, it was niche, no one knew of it, only gangnam style was known but as a one hit wonder/viral type of song. i was a fan then and i didn't even know that the wonder girls or big bang had attempted to promote in the west. it's crazy how they just choose to run with their own narrative

@@kearycemoore2256 I'd never heard of them or any Kpop group but I live in Europe.

This is so true. I work in the talent division of Viacom, which is MTV, vh1, Comedy Central, I can tell you that when so called Kpop came across our desks, it was dismissed, because even jyp or sm didn’t have any power.

Amen!!! 😌💜

MIC drop! 🎤

Dynamites populatity in s.korea was such an insane thing. Like butter also did extremely well but dynamite set up home camp on the no. 1 charts for MONTHS. On all music charts. It has over 1000 paks right? And is it still the song with the most pak in history? Their english songs did not affect their popularity in s. Korea it did the exact opposite.

It makes me laugh when people say BTS make English music now like are they blind? Do they only see Dynamite, Butter, and PTD and ignore the countless Korean songs they made before during and after the pandemic.

@@luluangelina2923 i guess they are blind or just refuse to listen and look

Exactly! Just all over the place!

And they will be like "then let me be brainless for a few hours"😂 . . . Oh sorry they didn't have one to start with 😢🤣

The most important is let get the ARMY attention to make more listener for our channel 😅😅😅 cz ARMY will not let us pull BTS down😅😅

They just can't be bothered to actually research bts albums so they base their entire argument on dynamite

EXACTLY

Good for you, I was wondering why ARMYs didn't give them a hard time.

​@@hoanhuynh7059 a lot of us on army twt banded together to email about it

That came through. I highly suspect she was probably one of the Antis that wrote terrible stuff about BTS on social media back then because they were taking over the shine from her favs.

Now rally up the American ARMYs to email their complaints too. Please do I want to hear her and the host grovel and apologise. Share the xenophobic podcast so that ARMYs can protect our boys.

@@hoanhuynh7059 We won't give that podcast air time by clicking on it. I do think we need to make a informed complaint to NYT's. I'm not American so I doubt they'd acknowledge what I want to say to them.

That is the truth. And so well said. Thank you.

Thankyou. USA believes they own and control music. I have followed. AMERICAN music since I was a kid, radio, then TV Shows. I discovered BTS in 2021 along with South Korean history and culture. BTS LYRICS and message from the 3 rappers stories in their rapping won me. I will be a BTS fan for ever. Just like I am a Frank Sinartra, Glen Miller, Elvis, Beatles and Michael Buble, Michael Jackson, Th B gee's, Andre Bochelli etc etc. fan. I love good entertaining music from many different genres. 👌 🎉 BTS are 7 extremely talented individual artists who belong to BTS 💗🩵💚💛🧡❤️💜

@@suzettedezilwa7486 USA believes... yes. Exactly. The US music industry has this persistent fantasy that US music is always the best in the world, because it's made in the US by US artists. The industry seems to feel that this qualification means that everything they do is just automatically superior, and that even a mediocre US artist is better than an outstanding foreign artist. And they are absolutely wrong about that. Poor music is poor music, no matter who makes it; excellent music is excellent music no matter who makes it. But when one tries to tell the US music industry this, they cover their ears and scream "NOT listening, NOT listening!" And then they go change their rules and rankings and procedures so that US music always gets the top spots, and everyone goes 🙄 because we all know how that works and the only ones they're fooling are themselves. I'm waiting for the day when they decide they are only going to chart, spin and track US music. It'll be the final collapse of Billboard and US radio.

💜

​@@ystrwnot USA, a certain group or some in the music industry.....BTS or any foreign group is successful in the USA because of support from people within the USA that are true music fans, so please don't generalize. As an Army that have listened to other kpop groups often there is none or very few songs to their discography with depth, unlike with BTS who often have deep depth to the lyrics and MV thusthe reason for their success. .💜

Right? Looking for someone to “think critically about music” and ending up with a bitter kboo VIP. Sorry NYT but those are a dime a dozen on Twitter and have been up in our business hating on BTS unprovoked for a decade 🙃

NY Times fired the reporter after many people debunk their hoax news of Palestine. NY Times is not mass media, it is propaganda from CIA.

Nyt is not so great any more they are more leaning towards popularity nowadays then actual criticism

I was wondering the same thing. Where did they find her, of all people? Has to be a personal connection somewhere... I can think of at least five big kpop channels that would have offered an actual objective critique.

@@brynish3427 literally, it's very suspicious

I was like: dude. JT jumped on JK's song with a remix. Jungkook isn't the Korean Timberlake, in the year of our lord 2023 Timberlake was the American Jungkook for a hot minute. Anybody look me in the eye and say with a straight face that N'sync trying to make a comeback at the time BTS doing the military service is coincidental challenge, istg.

@@JadeReloaded I was thinking that about Justin Timberlake, too. I couldn't help laughing at the ignorant irony of her statement. Sometimes I wonder what planet some of these people live on. Because it certainly isn't this one.

@@JadeReloaded BTS revived a lot of old boy band careers, including JT.

completely agree and even then what's wrong with inspiration?? so many kpop songs in the early 2010s were inspired by western artists, like kesha, lady gaga, etc...and to only attack bts for doing it when theirs did it too? insane. sm groups have also done so many remakes of western songs but no one talks about that :/

theyre definitely mad that justin timberlake collabed with jk and not these other groups lmfaooo

The percentage of BTS full English songs compared to their non English songs is literally less than 1% compared to their whole discography. Which basically means ZERO percent. Yet, kpop fans hate them cause they're too westernized???? tf Bro, Blackpink as a group literally has an English album, and the percentage of their English songs compared to their non-english is literally more than 30% 💀 Even if we include JK's solo which is a full English album in BTS discography, their full English songs is literally still LESS than 3% Which means according to the narratives Blackpink is far more WESTERNIZED or should I say more desperate for Western validation than BTS. But no one will point that out. Cause even if kpop fans know, they won't point fingers at Blackpink or any other kpop groups. Cause their double standard is only for BTS. I forgot to mention, isn't Super M & Blackpink the first Kpop groups to release a full English songs? But I guess it's not much talked about since only BTS's English songs are popular.

Yes, this! Those songs were made to bring joy to as many people as possible, and I won't hear a word against Dynamite, that song saved my sanity in lockdown and made me an Army. It's not the most complex or meaningful song they've ever done, but in terms of pure pop it's near on perfect.

and if what bts wanted was fame in the west then what the problem? it is literally the biggest music market and i can ensure them every single kpop group want that, they just can't due to their poor dicography and music that doesnt connect with the people. Multiple group have all english song, some even album but God forbid for the biggest group to do the same thing if they gain recognization for it, hipocrisy at it finest

nods. And some of those songs brought new army here to stay.

💯💯

bring joy= want a grammy so bad

I am 80 might be the oldest BTS fan, I start my day with them and end the day with them. Heard about them on NPR right before the country shut down it was Tiny Desk and I fell, happily into the rabbit hole. This podcast is nonsense, MIC Drop will never be awkward, Steve Aoki was not there for show but added to the collab. Why am I listening?

Another round of applause to you! Yes, I also thought the way they were using the word "normal" was problematic

10 million thumbs up for you. Well said!

The shade thrown at current Generic American/English artists in this comment is so great. Best Comment on the page for me 👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏 I am screaming

@@emmamcintyre6997 I've got a lot more where that come from lol. I wish there were more videos comparing BTS to western artists rather than BTS to kpop.

100% True, I personally am sick of hearing about TS at the moment, thank god she has left my country to take her crappy tour elsewhere. UGH 💜💜💜💜💜💜💜💜💜💜

That whole statement made no sense

FR! MIC DROP made total sense when it was released. BTS were getting a lot of hatred from some kpop fans and prejudice from racist westerners so they decided to clap back with a bit of a diss track/flex track. As far as their music goes, MIC DROP is nowhere near the 'hardest' rap song (see Cyphers) so why on earth was that guest calling it awkward? Maybe the English lyrics in the Steve Aoki remix? Idk. All I know is that instrumentally, the song was a pretty clear follow on down the Dope - Baepsae - Not Today line in dynamics.

It's awkward because it doesn't sound like BB😁

@@hasibahmdadnan??

@user-eg9ul8sn8b I think that they are saying that because it didn't sound like Big Bang makes, the group that lady clearly loves, Mic Drop would be awkward to her

Correct.

Agreed. From a western (but non-American) standpoint, look at David Bowie. He went through so many evolutions during his career - starting with Ziggy Stardust And The Spiders From Mars. And it was that evolution - both reflecting the times, and setting new trends - that contributed to his incredible longevity in what is - quite honestly - a fickle business.

@@leahwarburton I was a Bowie fan loved his ability to not get stuck into a rut but branch out and try different things.

You can still be versatile even if you sing in your native language.

​@@BTS_PerfectMan_jasmin Of course as being Versatile comes in many different forms, is expressed in many different ways that's the beauty of being versatile. That's the beauty of art in it's many and varied forms.

I srsly hope that she is able to grow her channel much more cause this is exactly the argument ppl need to hear

And their anthology album too! Like that doesn’t exist for them? Three new songs in Korean. These people are willfully ignorant!

| I was a new fan in 2021. Same same. I say that I came for the upbeat distraction of the eng trilogy I needed then but stayed for the 2!3! D-2 mono Abyss Persona Epiphany Promise Tear Lights Magic Shop Mikrokosmos. But the complainers there still recommending some fun bops. 😂

Well said! And same: I became a fan in 2021 with Butter, so thank you for those english songs for helping BTS music reach even more people!

Dynamite ARMY here and the algorithm recommended Mic Drop and then On Kinetic Manifesto to me. Those made me fall completely into the rabbit hole. Brilliant points you made about why Golden should have been discussed by them and how they could explore that the xenophobia of the industry maintains that you have sing in English to get the "mainstream" success in spite of massive actual fan engagement in other languages. They could explore the changes that BB made after Jimin got no 1 with a song not in English (it had an English version but the sales and streams were primarily for the Korean version). That would have been an amazing conversation.

The United States does not have an official language or languages and it has over one million Korean speakers. Not sure how the podcaster from New York, which started as a Dutch colony, missed the language diversity. Agreeing with you about it makes sense for any pop star to try songs in English to reach the over 67 nations around the world where English is one of the official spoken languages. Like, Nigeria or Australia or Canada. Jungkook tried to learn some Portuguese too when he was touring in South America so he's trying to reach out in so many ways. Anyway, I agree with you and you made good points.

I had my attention drawn by Dynamite in 2020, and though I enjoyed it a lot, it wasn't the song that made me decide to stick around. Those were Fire, So What, and Black Swan. I can definitely assert that Dynamite, Butter and PTD drew in a huge number of new fans; when I subscribed to BangtanTV at the end of 2020, there were about 45M subscribers. By July of 2021...~7 months later... 55M subscribers. By June of 2022, there were 70M. And by Nov. of last year, there were 77M. (I took screenshots.) Things have slowed down during the solo era and the enlistment, and we're currently at 77.6M, but I expect that will soar again come 2025. Weverse subs have done something similar; it's over 25M users there now, and when I joined up they had just about reached 10M...I remember the posts by admin celebrating both the 10M and the 20M marks. So, yeah- Dynamite, Butter and PtoD served a purpose, drawing the attention of people who had not previously been interested in BTS and K-pop. And they served their other purpose very well, too, encouraging and cheering people during some incredibly difficult times. I'll always prefer the Korean songs, but I'll also always have a very soft spot for Dynamite, because without it I probably wouldn't have got to know BTS.

Because BTS being Kpop is a bad thing? Please... Prejudice (about Kpop) pointing out prejudice (about BTS)

Right? Hahaha

@@noemibernal4882 it's actually my belief that BTS aren't kpop. I watched one of boracity's videos (I believe it was called why bts isn't kpop), along with some others and kind of came to that conclusion. It's because what we think of as kpop is called idol music in Korea, and a lot of the defining factors of idol music don't work with BTS. They fit in more with Korean popular music. Other artists like this include IU. So,in that sense, BTS isn't kpop as in what we think about when we hear the word kpop, but IS kpop as in music that is popular with the Korean general public.

@@ineeduenthusiast Thank you for your polite reply. I still think BTS are very much Kpop, as well as amazing versatile artists. Both. Because Kpop is not a dirty word

@@noemibernal4882 not saying kpop is a dirty word. I love a lot of songs by a lot of artists that are considered kpop, or idol music. I just believe that BTS' direction is really different from what you see in idol music, so I don't consider them kpop in that way.

I think she doesn't know what growing and experimenting is because she likes it when artists don't grow.

@@luluangelina2923 omg literally... it's obvious that she's someone who cares more about surface-level industry "rules" than true art

She is a bigbang fan best not put too much thought into what she says. She just throws around words to sound good but she is clueless and a kpopie.

Following trends is the most normal thing in Kpop ever. It's just that YG has this one producer that defines their sound. And that has worked very well for them for years, especially with BP. But yeah, a (boy/girl)band is always much more than what their producer or manager gives them. The difference between Backstreet Boys and N'Sync is a good example (same manager & producer/songwriter in their hype phase). And to be honest, Westeners comparing Jungkook to Justin Timberlake is just so hilarious to me because they think that BTS will fall apart like N'SYNC or 1D when they actually have the team spirit of the Backstreet Boys which btw never disbanded in 30 years.

@@nehalilisays following trends is normal but my point is that bts hasn't been doing that. they've always gone in whatever artistic direction they felt best represented their feelings at that point in their career, because they actually have artistic power.

I agree 100% I am at a total loss so many times.

the fact that they mentioned that first made me know they were just going to talk down about BTS before it even starts

If they only knew how smart army is and how we can sniff out and call out crap from any hidden place!

As someone who lives in America and has been a fan of BTS and Kpop, I’ve seen so many ex-ARMYs leave the fandom because BTS’s music has “changed” and they do English songs now. It really is just a fetish for them. I’m not saying that you cannot dislike a song, but to say that bts are boring now and going for cash grab songs is fetishizing the group. You wanted them to be your quirky little secret, and now that they are successful and people know of them, you don’t like that. Other kpop groups can do what they want. I like some of those kpop groups too. But if you’re only in it for your quirky secret, that means it’s your problem, not bts.

lol. Speak for yourself. It was a company move! How delusional are you?

This is so true. I am a 71 yr old American that has always drifted toward music that is dramatically different than whatever is current... ending up with mad love for Radiohead & Tool (for example) and a full on metalhead due to the lyrics/message as much as the sound. Over the decades, any group/artist that revises their genre has been attacked. Even I have done that.. when the BeeGees went disco (ugh) I was livid. Nickelback is still a joke to many because they *didn't* change their sound. With BTS, I amazed myself. I am definitely NOT a fan of pop. Period. But it is the back stories, the lyrics, the messages, and the PERSONS these boys *are* that captured my attention and love. (TBH, Butter and Dynamite almost derailed my closer look at them, but I finally understood the purpose of those songs).

I agree with you. Everything you are talking about happened before. Now BTS are starting to adapt more and more to the American music industry and are gradually starting to lose their individuality.They became obsessed with winning Grammys and billboard charts. They stalled (RM spoke about this at festa 2022). As soon as they became famous in America, they began to move further and further away from their concept of the bangtan universe, and then abandoned it completely. They podcast they talk about Jungkook's album because it was promoted very much in America. His album was presented as something unique in the music industry. Although Jungkook's album was an ordinary album among many albums of American artists. He did not bring anything new to the music industry. If only others The guys were also given PR, perhaps they would have been talked about more.

​@@user-xu4kb7ci7fGood point. I think they are to some extend trying to please the hardcore fans, the casual fans and the general public with different releases and ways of promoting them. The problem I see at this point is that feeding the general public & casual fans too much with English songs/versions and superficial aesthetics with no deeper/connected meaning (Insta, TikTok, MVs) will grow a more superficial/immature fanbase that can barely sing along to the Korean lyrics and has no political & artistic awareness while taking away tickets & attention from longterm fans who are loyal but oftentimes don't feel at home in the fandom anymore.

​@@user-xu4kb7ci7f well you are talking about it's okay to do stereotypical music at times which jungkook did as it appealed to him. it's not bad, not every music has to significantly contribute to the music world. but you are ignoring many of the other members who have released quite musically deep songs. also jungkook in bts as a group has also released many new concepts-every artist doesn't have to always be experimental but when they are being so it's ignored?? and it's promoted in the us because it's a literal cultural hub, every culture is a part of it. and we all just kinda access that from the rest of the world because it's not always possible to have a place to promote in every country. and us literally still holds an important position of globalisation, like american artists are readily heard by the rest of the world. multipolarism came but us still is a big centre of globalisation, given that almost everyone understands the language. there's a lot to it. i just hope we would stop pointing out artists so unnecessarily like this and have some productive discussions instead.

​@@nehalilisaysit's okay to have different versions of songs, it's because the charts are hard on non-American artists. there's a lot to it. also bangtan never wrote music to please anyone. if you think otherwise, it's your personal opinion. but people feel connected to their music. if you don't it's your choice but don't speak on the behalf of the whole fandom. also fans are just fans, stop dividing them into different categories, as long as they are not harmful, they are fans

​@@nehalilisaysI agree with you. It seems to me that before the main thing in the fandom was supporting each other and promoting amazing BTS songs and messages, but now it’s not BTS songs, but an attempt to keep up with the charts and views, to surpass American singers; the meaning of the songs doesn’t seem to be important anymore... Sorry, have you been an ARMY for a long time? What do you think about the guys’ solo activities? Sorry for my bad English.

The disrespect towards TXT has me seething. Yes, the MEDIA had been talking about them as bts’s little brothers and the “pressure on them to succeed BTS.” But it was the media that was doing so both in Korea and America. With their debut and just their music and conceptual direction in general, they’ve proved time and time again that they are TXT, not BTS. I’m not a moa, but I know how hardworking and distinct they are. To call them a failed attempt at recreating bts is disgusting. Both groups have respect for each other and never have TXT tried to use BTS to boost themselves.

I think my comment was removed but I'll say it again. I think while it was funny, it was also a bit rude of boracity to say that. Like, kpop is a group of genres which have a lot of musical merit of their own. Many kpop artists are pioneers and have worked really hard to make their music, be it Bangchan's unique sound design and production skills, Zico and Mino's excellent rapping, IU's discography, DAY6's masterful use of harmony and xdinary heroes understanding of how to blend rock and metal with electronic production. There is so much talent in kpop that shouldn't be belittled and overlooked just to promote BTS. They can both be great. Streams do not make one great. BTS were great at their debut, with good hiphop production and excellent, hard-hitting lyrics, but they got very very few streams.

Your comment us still up there somewhere. I read it. And the thing is that while i understand whst you r saying, most of bts fans have listened to a bunch of other kpop songs, am one of them, and there r some good songs and sounds here and there but BTS always stands out the most for us. So with all due respect to these other artists, while they r all kpop, to me and a lot of others BTS still more unique and appealing in general. And i didn't find that remark offensive and streams do count a lot. Every person who makes art wants it recognised by as many people as possible and make money from it. Good art and good sales should walk together, thats logically the artists goal, no?

​@@machinelearner108i think you got this backwards. she's not saying they have low streams and therefore they're bad, she's saying there's a reason they dont have more streams, why they cant catch up to bts' numbers. obviously there is more than one reason, but those combined are what differentiates bts from other groups. you cant compare 100 underperforming groups with 1 group who's on top with what they do. at that point its a collective problem, and that problem is plaguing kpop. it's not saying all kpop is bad, simply that typical kpop is far away from bts and there are reasons for it. this wouldn't even be relevant if kpop stans wouldn't downplay bts, or claim their fav group is on their level, or above. kpop stans in particular are obsessed with numbers, so i find it fitting and justified to take a little jab at them. i just understood it as, its fine if you like kpop and dont want it to change or improve, but then dont complain about low numbers, dont waste your time on twitter raging how your fav group deserves bts' success way more, etc. because thats exactly what those type of stans love doing the most, and this guest does too.

@ajlee2168 Ok I get what bora means now ig. I just don't think it is right to take jabs at kpop when kpop music is objectively far superior to western music which gets billions of streams. Leaving BTS completely aside and simply comparing kpop and western music, kpop has far more complex chords (augmented, diminished, sus, 7ths, 13ths), interesting chords progressions which actually fit the emotion being described, a greater variety of melodies and instruments. Kpop songs have 10-13 melodies on average when western music has far less. A lot more love and thought is put into the production of kpop songs, which have 200 or so tracks in the mix compared to the 40-50 max in western pop. The songs often may have meaningless lyrics, but aren't most western pop songs about break ups, sex, and exes or just general teenage angst? And I think BTS is the best not just in kpop but in the entire music industry for the content of their music and artistry. I say this as ARMY who has only listened to BTS and classical music in the last week lol.

@@machinelearner108 i see your perspective, kpop songs have the potential to be more interesting, but i wouldn't say it's "objectively" superior. i appreciate when a song is more complex and tries something unconventional. there are many western songs that are very simple, but that, depending on your mood, might actually sound more pleasing than a "complex" piece, therefore i cant say one is objectively better than the other, it's still your subjective taste. it's actually the opposite for me, kpop has great ideas, but the final product will often sound messy and not enjoyable, i just keep thinking about the wasted potential. so while i appreciate trying more, it backfires for a lot of kpop songs imo. for the lyrics, pop songs in any language have some random or superficial lyrics. but since kpop isn't exclusively comparable to western pop, but can be any genre, it's definitely overwhelmingly filled with nonsense lyrics. im a big rap fan and kpop rap greatly injures my heart at times lol. western rap parts in pop songs can be meaningless, but at least they're pleasant to listen to, have good flow, revolve about a topic or are just adding to the general vibe, whereas kpop rap is 90% gibberish, repeating trendy words, no interesting flow, rhythm or instrumentals to support it, and are generally just filler parts. basic western songs might focus on sex, or love and heartbreak, but the lyrics, tho unimpressive, stay on topic or will make a few interesting word plays if you're lucky. whereas kpop generally keeps it very vague, to the point where all the emotions are felt through the instrumental, and none (or very few) are delivered through lyrics or vocal delivery. actually, a lot of kpop songs have fantastic instrumentals, but when listening to the actual song, its mostly ruined for me. i cant appreciate a great beat if they stumble over their words or just yell out 2 words repeatedly. dont get me wrong tho, im not defending western songs, my go-to songs all focus on meaning and have great lyricism, but observing kpop over the years and also being unwillingly aware of western hits, id have to say its an advantage that im not fluent in korean, bc bad kpop lyrics are way more frustrating to me than bad western lyrics.

That's wat I said too lol. If it was BIGBANG dancing at the Billboard Awards and a bunch of fangirls was cheering for them, she wouldn't be complaining...AT ALL. Also, why does she pretend like BIGBANG doesn't have many fangirls too?

Her real problem is her love for bigbang is weaker than her hate for BTS. With fans like this, i understand why their faves could never thrive

And now G Dragon has left YG (I believe the other 3 are still under YG) so they will not be releasing any more music as BB

​@@cupcakenfettiIT is showing 😂😂😂 I mean how could you love your fave more if he is a criminal, so it makes sense to her to hate BTS. Since BTS is nothing like BigBang, *cough* a G*raper

how to admit to not know anything about bigbang nor kpop and just want to hate around and justify your hype train for bts.

I can't wait for 2025.. and beyond. All I know is I will always be there, listening and supporting as long as they want me.

@@jumpsuitgirl3835 💜🤗 APOBANGPO BORAHAE

Please go listen to Dis-ease on Be album. You will love it.

BE album is very meaningful to them because they did almost everything themselves. There are videos of them going through the process. If you stan BTS, you just have to accept that they are real artists who evolved and expanded. I am someone who dislike artists of same genre all the time. I love BTS because I can count of them to try something else every time. Have you checked out their solo albums? I love that they have their own color in music.

@@mc_7_25 don't worry I'm all caught up now lol, I never properly fell out of BTS just had a slight lack of judgement part way through lol. I am a full fledged ARMY and was for a long time before I drifted, which was mostly due to focusing on other stuff like me last year of highschool and starting university. I am very much a veteran ARMY at this point lol

@@hoanhuynh7059 yep I've checked out all the solo albums and was anticipating Golden so much before it was released, don't worry I am very aware of how they have evolved and appreciate every era they've had lol. Only had to catch up on a few since I was there to anticipate August D and Jhopes first mixtapes.

Ironically DNA was the song that turned me into an Army. I do like most of their bubble gum pop songs but I also understand all those "sell out" accusations (so I do have a love-hate relationship with PTD). 2021 was a turning point for me because I don't like how corporate the company has become since Big Hit Entertainment became Hybe. And yes, I do understand that there is a certain pressure for them to establish themselves as part of the "Big 4" in Kpop - but was it really necessary to work with S. Braun? That was definitely a downgrade in the ethics department & therefore also in the image department. And it's not just about T. Swift and all the smaller artists who say that he mistreated them, it's also the mental health of Justin Bieber himself who is the best example of why we shouldn't make (underage) teenagers famous - for their own good. Kpop idols are lucky that they are still expected to graduate from high school, that they are usually in a group and that it's a big taboo for them to touch illegal drugs. Whenever there are signs that some of the BTS members have an unhealthy relationship with food, alcohol or tobacco, it worries me a lot. But I also appreciate how open they sometimes are with it and how they reflect on some of their habits (I have very mixed feelings about Jungkook's drunk livestreams, lol). What I was trying to say: There are a lot of things surrounding BTS at this point that stress me out in a bad way (not comparable to ticket sale hunger games). However, all my attempts to unstan them failed miserably and the best thing I can do is to just focus on the aspects of their output that bring me joy & wisdom 😊

Ten bucks she was interviewed because she knows somebody at NYT...

​@@tokyopt That's generally how things work. It's about connections.

@@NanciBK absolutely, that was exactly my observation. I'm a BTS fan and barely know anything about kpop outside of BTS, so everything regarding kpop reminds me of BTS, because it's literally the only group I know that well. But I also do not identify as an "idol expert" and I'm not being interviewed in a NYT podcast.

😄😄😄 I was thinking the same by the end of this. Could I get paid to be an expert on K-Pop by only listening to BTS?! Geesh.

Its sad.She must be seething seeing Taeyang and Jimin Collab for vibe

It's like 'they do it for money' when it's 'YOU who do it for money'

Lol No wonder she gave major insecure vibes in the podcast😂

So she's basically a raging chronically online racist? Somebody tell her to go outside and touch grass instead of hating on artists on a podcast 💀 (PS : I LOVE BORALAND BC ITS SO DIVERSE, LOVE U ARMYS 😤💜)

The truth is a group like SuperM would never work long term because it's made of members from other groups and those groups are their first priority, not SuperM. And who cares about masculinity. I listen to BTS for the music, not for how they look (although it's an added bonus). And too much diversity? Ya, and what's the problem with that? This person makes no sense.

What is scary is that The New York Times allowed this to be broadcast. This woman knows nothing about (lmao) music period! Be it Kpop, Pop, or any genre. Remember she is a voice with no face (coward) and it's 1 opinion. Have a Great Day...✌💜

Is she for real?? I am sure her taste of music is s***t...let alone the idea of 'knowledge of music' she's got.

💯💯 Yes she does 🙌

to be fair getting Justin on the song (regardless if it was a business decision or Justin wanted to/fonsy & daddy yankee wanted him on it) gave the push it needed to get a #1 on the hot100 it otherwise would have never reached (thats speculation from me ofc i have no way of knowing but thats the way it seemed at least) and i agree that it was a very successful song on its own without JB. That situation is similar to bts hopping on the savage love remix and getting another #1 on the hot100 for themselves, Jason Derulo and the giy who made the beat (im blanking on his name rn) which Jason Derulo finally admitted to recently giving BTS their flowers after acting like a dummy back in 2020. at least he saw the light eventually lol

She pre-blocked everyone! That was a crazy day!

yes it was they were doing cartwheels and backflips contorting themselves to try to 'pretend' they really knew what they were talking about. When in fact, one had no idea and the other was clearly butt hurt that BTS are the Super group while BigBang didn't make it and had some rather problematic's members.

@@eileencritchley4630 Well put! 😂

@@noemibernal4882 Thank you :) but I've just noticed a number of grammar error's so I'm going to edit it.

"K-pop" music isn't huge in Korea, it seems she does not know that even those who like K-pop will also listen to non-K-pop even English-spoken songs so whether the person is Korean or not I doubt they would care

Well, I intensely dislike Dynamite because of the lyrics which make no sense and because whenever you click on BTS you get Dynamite as their most successful song. They didn't write Dynamite, they just sang/danced to it.Their beautiful BE album nearly disappeared behind Dynamite. RM said he hopes new Armies will listen to their other songs too. So do I.

Dont be sorry .....Language of colonisers Lol.😂😂😂😂 .. So true even I dont want to respec

you know other countries have colonised too not to mention it was colonised in the past by other countries

@@MsKaz1000 Yes Yes I agree.... But as someone from India I found that sentence funny

You are right, language of the colonizers. Don't forget the Portuguese, the Spaniards, the French, Russians, Arabs etc. But English has become the global language whether we like it or not. And it is not a bad thing to be able to communicate. Not to like the American influence all over the world Boracity magazine calls xenophobia. Is it? I don't know. But cheer up, the next world language might be Chinese.....

lmaooo louder for the people in the back 😭😭 and thats what it really boils down to doesn't it. kpop stans especially are so mad at how NOT bothered the tannies are. They're just chill genuinely good guys who do their music, their performances, communicate with army and go about their business and that makes them MAD, makes them SEETHE fjfkfkdk thank god bts always protect their peace and differentiate the online from the real world

I also think of someone like Shakira. She started out making Spanish songs and then started making English songs along with Spanish and no one says anything about that. Celine Dion too who grew up speaking and singing in French and didn't learn English until she was a teen. But I don't recall people complaining when she started to sing in English.

The comment from her was so ridiculous

It's not just this faceless voice that is under-rating Bts. Heck their own so called fans hate on them...On a daily basis! When I listened to Bts, way back in the beginning I always thought of them as a Great Non Kpop- Kpop Grouo and I still do. They're not your typical Kpop Group. I Love It That They're Not! Have a Lovely Day...✌💜

Her comment is straight racist. How about KPop artists who are ethnically Korean but actually speak English as their first language? Like Woosung from The Rose, or Tablo from Epik High, or Yunjin from Le Sserafim, or DPR Ian. Are they also not allowed to do English songs that sound too white to her? How about any other American artists who happen to be of Asian descent? The US only speaks English because it was (partly) a colony of England. The US doesn't own English.

@@NanciBK Yes it is! That's why she only used her first name. She's nothing and doesn't have a vast knowledge about music. Enjoy the rest of your day...✌💜

Yeah. Never cared about kpop before I saw bts and even now I largely don't care about it still. Pretty wild takes if you ask me.

Between the two extreme views, lies somewhere the truth. I doubt people will agree and back up claims that kpop was mainstream, but it did exist in the west irregardless if you and any regular person off the street knew. Before talent is broken into the mainstream, they all start with with a small-medium underground fandom that slowly grows. Only I n d stry plants break overnight. If you look at Lana, for example or even The XX there were people in the in at a time before the rest of the population was introduced. You can say this applied to Big Bang and SM groups, as there are literal footage of concert packed full in Europe and North America. So as a BTS fan, to deny the growing popularity of kpop is just pure bias and deceit. Apart from the fact that Kcon in LA has existed for 2 decades if not more; the fact that there is a korean cable in Cali airing kdramas and korean content as far as the 90's. And not to mention the rise of interest in kdramas and breakouts into west like Parasite and Squid Game means of Kdramas have broken into and got acknowledged by the west it was only a matter of time before kpop would breakout too, irregardless if that was gonna be BTS or some other group. But the biggest proof that you're wrong? The fine brothers reaction channel was fairly known in the yt community if you consumed yters content - this was the early 2010's, was one of the up and coming biggest yter channels among all other famous ones; and videos were getting up to a mil views, 6 digits in the minimum. And they had a segment where people reacted to multiple kpop videos - quite a few vids done. These videos amassed millions of views and introduced many western people to kpop before the introduction of BTS. In fact, Big Bang's Fantastic Baby was going viral withing the kpop community and saw a spike in views thanks to this introduction. Not to mention, as a long time yt user I can recall you from memory that around 2011-2009 (idr) one of SNSD's songs made it to the top of the front page of yt - which means it was advertised as trending video. The kpop I n d stry put in it's roots for the eventual break out of kpop into west - BTS misguided fanatics don't understand that. That even without BST, kpop would've become a conversation in the west as PSY already broke once (albeit a one hit wonder). It's not a perspective of you failed, but a perspective of Korea was getting one step closer and closer as they were cracking the code on how to break. It's why Blackpink is massively big and recognized too - and it's not bc of BTS paving the way, but bc Blackpink was growing and spreading alongside BTS parallel to their growth. You have to understand that at around 2013 there was so many groups, medias introducing kpop were created and growing in views and visibility all parallel to each other. That's why Kpop's break was eminent - bc the way the music experience in kpop is programmed was to maximize getting fans and sparking intrigue, bc kpop is very addictive in every way and format. So to say that even BTS stumbled on this global visibility is ignorance and lack of understanding the marketing strategies employed. BigHit literally flew out to every small Kcon kpop type event they could find in random countries most of the world doesn't pay attention - just like they did this with Britney Spears in Asia afaik, and that's how she became global - because they advertised her as global rather than just for the western market bubble.

Yes, that's true, my universe was ironic. But I think bts's engish songs work better in this language because they are mainstream pop songs. My universe is a rock song and rock genre is universal and sounds amazing in any language. But hardcore pop sound seems unfortunately limited to english speaking countries. The vibes of this songs work better in English I think. But still though their performances bts can make this songs sound uniquely their. No one can present them like they do, not even original artists who come with this type of songs and that's one thing many often forget about. Bts lookes unique and cool in every style that they are trying. I think that's because they enjoy this different styles themselves and that's the reason of their passion and enjoyment in every performance.

How do you manage to listen to Life Goes On and still call them sellouts? Ridiculous

Omg, I actually found this youtuber, and I had to contain my rage while listening. I was ready to scream. Like, I get it if you don't love the English songs, but making 3, when their discography is like 200 songs, is NOT SELLING OUT. I found another one of their videos where they were rating albums and thought it would at least be more favourable to older albums, or other kpop groups, but they were all ranked under 5 (except NewJeans, who are the closest thing I can think of when it comes to appealing to an American audience) and he didn't even rank some of them, saying that they weren't important enough to rank. Like, just admit you hate them, it'll be easier.

the 6 radio spins for life goes on 😭 I always remember that one tweet "LETS GO FOR SIX"

I did, and mostly I don't like it. I prefer Exo and NCT127, musically more diverse. I enjoyed 4 tracks of JK Golden album because it gave me old school Michael Jackson, JT and Usher vibes.

@@junglecat_ranteveryone has their own preferences and that’s fine 👍 what matters is that you’ve given bts a chance, and although you don’t like most of their music you clearly like SOME of their music which only proves my point that their discography can appeal to everyone and anyone, even if only a few songs end up being liked - there is a bts song for everyone

​@@junglecat_rant lmaoooo sure dear

This!!!! You hit the nail on the head!!!

Yeah you are right

I have to add even BTS' korean songs deserves to be placed in their actual genres not lazily being categorised under kpop Like aren't serendipity and singularity R&B songs And I want to see Ugh and cyphers in hiphop playlists

Its annoying that non English songs are classified into genres of language rather than actual music genres because they're not English.

Nope, their have been many artist before them that where way more successful please read about music history and the artist who defined it and made the GODDAMN STANDARD for every genre and artist after. So sit the fuck down.

The NYT are known to be racist and hate seeing people of color have any success, whether it be in science or in music. I remember them writing about bts a couple of times, and they’ve always been in a negative tone. A few years ago, they mocked india and its space program with a VERY racist cartoon. Also, they have used rhetoric supporting white supremacy not even a couple years ago. Also, some very harmful articles targeting Mexicans (probably others in the latine community as well). New York Times has a history of hating on people of color and this is just one of the many examples within the past DECADE.

You're Latina, but your name is Olga, which is Slavic? And your pfp looks like something a very young person would use - not a middle aged person, considering this is just a yt acc. Seems like BTS spreads lots of lies to paint their faves in a certain way - just like kpop fandoms of various have been known to fake local "interest" of a kpop Idol when they perform concerts or w/e, with posts "who's the ________&_" when we all know you're already a fan. This type of behavior needs to stop - just allow your ults. to grow organically - heaven knows BTS is 100% international and global. And most fans are young, as seen by concert footage. If you're the older fan who was in their mid 20's circa 2013-2015 no need to be ashamed, just be upfront you an old fan. Why is there to exaggerate BTS stats? They did this with NJ and I thought they were semi-viral and yet their MV views are so low? You don't wanna create false expectations like this, do you, that's only gonna end up embarrassing the fandom

Thats exactly what I was thinking. The guest just constantly has this underlying hypocrisy that is so evident through her bias to big bang. If it was big bang doing all BTS does she wouldn't be complaining

@@amme6805 exactly. and I've seen her bitter rants when this podcast touched Twitter, all her past tweets. It's all so pitiful and despicable. I hope, for her own mental wellness/ stability, she works through these insecure thoughts... because I can't imagine all the crying she'll do once BTS returns and starts climbing higher than ever before.

@@emcoffeebreak I fear for her sanity when that happens.

"Western commercial music sounds so canned and recycled" you just described all of kpop music. Kpop has and still dose copies shit from western music like the whole 70s and 80s sound and inmatating black accents and shit rap lines. Do your ears not work? So...............................................wtf are you talking about?

In all these comments, all I see is JK this and JK that; sorry, but there was another member who broke through first and who achieved #1 first and broke records; he is also hugely popular globally AND in the U.S. and his music is STILL charting right now, one year later. But I guess if we ignore it, it never really happened, right?

@@ArmantoAlex13 I’m not comparing the members between themselves. The video talked about JK and I mentioned him. I support all 7 of them. And to be honest JK’s album is my least favorite among the members but I can appreciate and recognize talent and hard work

​@@ArmantoAlex13 that's really not the point. Jungkook is being mentioned because he was mentioned in the podcast, and the conversation pertains to him. Jimin released a song and album in Korean, so it doesn't matter in this context (not saying that his achievements are unimportant. He's my bias and I'm really proud of his accomplishments, but it doesn't need to really be talked about right now). Honestly, your comment feels a bit solo stan-ish, you feeling upset when others are bringing up JK's records and needing to remind everyone that Jimin did stuff too isn't a mindset of an OT7 Army.

@@MBella123 JM wasn’t talked about enough in this video - as if HE had zero success in the U.S. He actually reached #1 in the U.S. with a song in the KOREAN language! He wrote, composed and produced his album- and THAT was hard work. It’s like nobody recognizes what a monumental achievement that #1 was and that just blows my mind. It’s a pattern with both the label, that under estimated him in solo era and now completely ignores him and Army who seems to ignore his success for what it is and blows off projects his fans have organized to reach realistic goals. It’s really quite sad.

@@ArmantoAlex13 This video being about JK doesn’t take away the achievements of the other guys. Stop being petty and annoying. If you’re solo stan I’m not even gonna keep this conversation because I’m always gonna be OT7