Thought I'd give a shorter overview of these 5 side by side. Have had loads of requests, so figured I'd make something easy to digest. Lot more cuts than usual, but it is in the hopes of giving you the down and dirty deets that may help your decision making process. Give a like and sub if you haven't and appreciate the work! Much love
Thanks for giving honest critique to each of the contenders! Very useful. Do you have any thoughts on Eureka Mignon Zero? (not to be confused with Mignon Single Dose, the angled one, which is a bit larger and more expensive) It's about the same price as Lagom Mini and Varia VS3 (and looks quite nice, too), but it does not appear to have received as much attention among coffee youtubers.
@@victorp.3444 weird how the price thing works across the world. Here in Canada, the Varia is $400CAD and the Eureka Zero is $750CAD. I was messaging Josh at Alternative brewing in Australia, and there it’s the Varia that’s the stupid expensive one. And Varia is a New Zealand company which has free trade with Australia…. He’s done reviews on all these grinders and was talking about a shootout video of his own, but not including the Varia because it’s in a whole different price bracket there.
Of all the grinders to do an abbreviated review: the one I wanted to know the most about!! 🙄 Keep up the excellent work. Ignore the singing-haters. Hater gonna hate.
You mentioned customer service, so I wanted to mention my experience with my Lagom Mini: I busted a little part within the motor chamber while it was out of warranty. I reached out to Option-O in hopes that I could purchase the part. Instead of that, they offered to send over a whole new motor and power brick, as long as I paid the shipping. And then I got detailed instructions to make the replacement myself. Whenever I upgrade, they’ll have my business.
that's fantastic to hear. i think customer service ends up being almost a bigger factor in purchasing a product than just price and features. it's the worst feeling when a company acts like they stand by their product, or give 100% customer satisfaction claims, only to leave you high and dry when something is messed up. i'll definitely look into Lagom now. Option-O sounds great!
@@LanceHedrick i think your shorter ones tend to have better pacing and less.... space? literally just watched a 50m one of yours, didn't realize that long, and i ended up with it on in the background because i couldn't just actively WATCH. (again, pacing.) you did an amazing job here, short and to the point, short and sweet. the ones under 15m i think are really great. or if they are longer, that you are still high paced AS IF it were short. never seen the varia before so thank you for putting on here! :)
Hard to beat Baratza support. I have a Vario and my parents have an Encore, both which went through Baratza's repair program after about 5-10 years of use and both came back working even better than when they were originally purchased.
This is great. Now we need a "Best Espresso-oriented Grinder for Beginners". Or maybe not beginners, but people who don't want to spend 500+ USD on a grinder, and rarely if ever make anything but espresso.
Introductory pricing on the Timemore 64s is supposed to be $300- and for that you get modern 64mm flat burrs, brushless dc motor, an auger, variable rpm, and a novel chaff/fines catcher on the output that Lance really likes. Plus it's compact. Probably your best option imo
My first Vs3 was dead out of the box. The adjustment mechanism was almost unmoveable and did not seem to adjust the grind size. When tightening it would get to a certain point (no where near zero) and sort of skip and loose all tension for a bit and then grip hard again, as well as a lot of movement and a screechy grind when the burrs were spinning. Took around a month to get a replacement as the distributor took a long time combined with crap post times. The replacement has been great since it arrived, and I am really enjoying it. I wanted the Ode Gen 2 originaly, but as of when I placed the order (December 26th) there was still not date for the Ode becoming available locally, they only turned up in late Feb, which still gave time for my Vs3 to arrive, be sent back and the replacement to arrive.
I have to say this is the one best video I need at this moment. I am choosing an electrical grinder for my gf and we needs it to be simple, aesthetic, great result and, relatively, good budget. This up-to-date video give the information I need. Thanks Lance
I've had my Vario for 13 years now (So old it's the Mahlkonig badged version!). I use it everyday for espresso and the only thing I've had to do is change the burrs out. I also have a refurbed Virtuoso for the past 4 years on filter duty. No problems there either. I know I can get grinders that will produce slightly better cups but it's hard to ignore that reliability!
Based on everything you stated, if I were in the market for a grinder in this price point I too would choose the Baratza ESP. However, I would definitely look into the upcoming Timemore Sculptor 064S since I'm only interested in an espresso grinder.
It's crazy how much prices differ around the world. That Lagom mini is 550 CAD here in Canada, whereas the DF64 is 665. To me it's a no brainer. I think if I were to get a conical grinder I'd tend to get a 250 CAD 1zpresso hand grinder rather than a Lagom Mini. Thanks for this Mr. Hedrick, lovely content as always. We are lucky to have you.
Excellent production and presentation. You sorta give me buyer's remorse on the Opus, but then I listen again and realize that a) I'm not making espresso at home, and b) I am on a budget, so I probably got the right thing.
I purchased the Lagom mini in the US directly from Option-O when the moonshine burrs were released, total cost with shipping was approximately $450. I also have the upgraded brick and have also stalled it once on a light roast Ethiopian - but in general haven’t had any serious issues, and really love the small form factor. Overall I’ve been really happy with it - but If I were in the market today I would easily choose the Encore ESP… I don’t think that the mini is worth more than double the cost.
The amount of new budget grinders coming out these days is sooo good. Might have to swap my Eureka Mignon at some point, it's so hard to dial with it. Thanks again Lance 🙏 love those two tones corduroy shirts you've been sporting >:)
Completely agree! The mini is just too expensive for it's value in Canada. The baratza is just messy. Ended up with the opus for the new referral discount, lower rpm, cleaner workflow and totally don't mind the inner ring for dialing in. And it's a second grinder for me so I already get a different cup with my first grinder. 😏
As someone who already has a very good filter grinder (Ode Gen 2), I’d love to see a comparison of espresso-only grinders, for those of us that want to get into espresso after being experienced with filter. Maybe it’s too small an audience, but I think it’d be interesting to look at grinders that focus purely on espresso, without consideration for filter. A reverse Ode, if you will.
This was me exactly and I got the Varia. It was available locally from good local dealers, no wait. Aesthetically it matches the ode perfectly. I've zero stalls in 3 months grinding light roasts for espresso. It is slow but that's not been an issue for me. Can't comment on shot quality versus these others, but I love the shots it makes.
Lance, Im on my second VS3 because of the plastic gearbox, but I wanted to mention that I'm getting zero retention with RDT. Not sure if you tested without or with RDT (I'm sure both), but I have yet to lose more than the usual 0.1 grams of coffee. Great review!
I received my Baratza Encore ESP on 2/25, and my poor Niche has been neglected since then. I’ve ground for filter coffee for my husband, (he prefers it to be ground at the upper end of espresso), espresso for me and also a medium grind for my Instant cold brewer. I really do like my Niche Zero, but if this grinder had been out in November when I bought my Niche, I might not have bought the Niche at all. I also got the single dose hopper which I’m really liking. I just received a bellows for the original hopper that I got from Etsy. I’m hoping that will also keep the lid from trying to jump off the hopper . I really like that cup that came with the ESP. It fits perfectly into my portafilter funnel.
Love the new editing, 13 min stacked with info. mini is an AMAZING grinder as an all-around, Personally I don't experience retention with RDT and grind speed is around 25s for 18g espresso light-roast. Never had stalling. Option-o has great customer-service and you can buy directly from them.
Man, I just enjoyed this video so much. The singing and everything! So much character! Very enjoyable to watch and also packed with really useful insights. I have the Vario and really agree with what you had to say.
I'm hoping to get the 078s based on Lance's prediction! Also, I'm wondering if we'd be able to mod the variable speed to lower rpms...with the high wattage, I would assume it could handle the lower speed and grind with more uniformity similar to the 078 (albeit having different burr)
This is exactly the type of video I've been looking for. I am looking to start my journey in home coffee and I enjoy making myself both pour overs and espresso drinks at the coffee shop I work at, so I have been looking for a good budget grinder that can deliver on both espresso and filter. I will most likely act on your recommendation and invest in the baratza, cheers!
Great video, based on your 078 thoughts, it looks like the sculptor 064s should blow these out of the water at the $299 kickstarter price. Really excited to see your thoughts on it whenever we all get one
I ordered the varia 2 weeks ago, having seen Coffee parts positive review. I like the design and I’m only going to be using it for aeropress for now: I’d been using a 1zpresso Q2 but wanted something that can do espresso one day. Hope it lasts. Thanks for your all your budget reviews in recent weeks.
absolutely! I like to change things up. My youtube started with budget items and that is what I intend to keep the focus on at its roots. Appreciate the support!
i'm so so glad for your reviews and effort put into them. You are so meticulous with the research down to the customer feedback for the varia it saved me a lot of work. Really wanted to let you know its appreciated!
Dude.. Great videos bro hands down... I just bought my gaggia classic espresso machine after owning a chefman espresso machine from Walmart haha.. Could you Please 🙏 make a video for beginners on how to make great espresso shots with a stock gaggia espresso machine.. the way you explain things makes much more sense then other videos.. haha Please bro.
Appreciate this review Lance, as I've been looking for something to replace my Oster / Mr Coffee grinder for moka pot, and V60 coffee. And the Baratza Encore ESP is available for sale in a nearby city for me.
Finally making the investment to get into making espresso at home after years of hand grinding an aeropress brew in the morning. I’m on the waitlist for the next batch of the VS3 release at the end of next month. Hoping that the motor issues are sorted, but it sounds like barring that it should pair well with a Gaggia Classic. Nice shootout video, they all seem like they’ll do the job well.
I got a refurbed sette for like 250 a few years back. She's a loud girl, and I had to replace a felt ring for the micro adjustment, but she is still going strong and makes delicious coffee.
I purchased an SD40 but ended up returning it and going all in on a Niche. My main issues were: stepped grinder, awkward workflow, and an unreliable power button. I found that getting the bellows on and off the grinder was a huge pain, and the opening at the top of the bellows was so small that beans would bounce out all over the table when filling. Playing 52-bean pickup isn't very fun when you're tired and uncaffeinated. And like you noted in your review, the bellows is really non-optional, resulting in a rather ugly top-heavy aesthetic. Regarding the power button, I found that sometimes I would press it and hear a click, but it wouldn't always turn on. The solution was to just press harder and longer, but it was one of those "quirks" which had me second guessing my purchase. That said, if everything I mentioned sounds irrelevant or nitpicky to you, then the SD40 may be your perfect grinder.
Lance blink twice if you need help!! A 13:33 comparison of 5 grinders isn’t like you haha. Great video as always. Super glad to see all these budget options these days. Crazy to think how far we’ve come these passed few years.
Can you please make a video that talks about the challenge of upgrading from hand grinders to electric ones. I currently own a jx pro but i cant make more than 1 espresso drink at a time because its exhausting 😢 and im scared that if i upgrade to an electric one, i might lose some quality in my coffee
Baratza Esp is the winner for me. The lagom and the varía looks ok but they doesn't offer support on my country and it will be a nightmare to get one. Opus is ok and Fellow is a know brand here and there. I only dislike the inner mechanism. Thanks for this video Lance! Very usel
All things considered, Baratza ESP seems the top choice, but quite close to Opus. But one thing which is rarely mentioned is the sound level. Opus is much more quiet than the ESP, which is important for espresso as it will be turned on multiple times early in the morning, which could bother anyone sleeping. If the only trade off is the extra micro adjustment complexity, then I would go with the Opus.
I have the Baratza 270 and you just can't beat their costumer service. Had an issue with the gears slipping, and contacted them about it. No questions asked sent me a whole new gear set and a video of how to replace it, and even told me that if for some reason that doesn't fix it, to tell them and they would just send me a new 270 and have me send the old one to them.
my exprience with varia support was i had issue with the cup. i emailed them at Singapore Time 9am and i got a reply at 915am. without question asked, they say they will cover fully and do a full swap but i just had to contact with the distributor. the distributor in Singapore is quite a famous specialty cafe which i frequent quite a lot so it took a while for their response but the entire experience have been seamless. been using the grinder for 4 months and no issue so far so finger crossed
Thnx for this video. It helps me a lot in my quest, finding the right budget grinder… Maybe you should make a ‘sing remix’ for the holidays 😂🎉 Greetings from the Netherlands
In Europe there is the LELIT Fred PL044MMT who seems to be a good competitor in that category (38mm conical burr, stepless, 239e, good metal construction)
Do you think the Ode Gen 2 is a better solution than most of/all of these for filter coffee? I really appreciate your effort and the production value Lance! Keep it up.
@uwotm8 it looks like the timemore 64 might be the version of the Ode that can do espresso. Fellow could probably keep everything the same with the Ode but have a stronger motor and sell it for a bit more as an espresso version, but I think they want the Opus to eventually be the espresso specialist.
I'm still using a (well maintained and serviced) Solis Meastro plus made by Baratza. They just recently said no more service on it though, so don't expect truly a lifetime of service
I’m so glad I bought the Lagom directly from option-o (and paid 375 +shipping). They took forever to srrive and after all those releases I was unsure if it would be still a good choice, but it is keeping up. I now want the moonshine burrs (they launched it after I bought mine with obsidian) but don’t know if they are worth the price. I feel I have a very nice spectrum of flavors and possibilities with my Lagom mini paired with my df-64 (with ssp multipurpose burrs).
My Baratza Encore died 6 months in...I'm overseas so repairing is a lil bit tricky. Went for the Fellow Opus, ngl aesthetic got me a little bit and I didn't want to buy another Baratza to then die on me again in such a short time.
Great video as always Lance. Appreciate the work you put into each to make this information available to us all. I wonder how these electric grinders compare to many similarly priced all in one hand-grinders?
For what it’s worth, my Lagom Mini has basically no retention. I just smacked it with the same bellows Lance recommended and had almost nothing come out. I also haven’t had stalling issues but I do think mine is a later model that what he’s using
I also get next to nothing. Total retention is 0.2g. Dose consistency is always perfect. I expect exchange is really low. The caveat is that it takes a while to clear the grounds after it's done grinding at espresso settings. And sometimes the grounds can be a little stuck but this can be helped along with a bellow or tapping the grinder with my palm.
I was thinking about the Varia and I like fruit forward but a power brick and the fact it might be a brick is a no go lol. I’m gonna pick up the ESP instead. Thanks!
Baratza's have issues with retention as well. People complain that they're messy grinders. Who cares about their stellar customer service when you have to deal with grinds on your counter?
I bought the Encore ESP. but I'm returning it. The espresso grinding is quite messy. The coffee powder just goes everywhere. I've ordered the VS3 instead. I like the build quality
oh wow! interesting! Did you use RDT? (ross droplet technique?) this should make it super clean. FYI you'll need to use the same (RDT) for the varia or it will be really messy from static.
Aaagh, this was the comment I was looking for. Cuz' I ordered the Varia VS3 but I am still leaning towards the more established companies like Baratza or Fellow.
In my experience, Baratza customer service is poor. I needed a $2.50 plastic part for my Encore ESP and their website shows it is out of stock. After waiting for 30 minutes for customer service to answer, the response was "we don't know when the part will be in stock, keep checking the website." No other help was offered. My grinder sits useless. I will buy my next grinder from anyone but Baratza/Breville.
I think saying the opus "excels at filter" when i've seen 3 to 5 complaints a month on r/pourover about how muddy it is, is kinda wrong. I would say its an espresso first grinder that can kinda do filter, but its like doing filter with a niche. The lagom is much better suited for that tbh. Yes, its more expensive, but the improvement is huge. Btw, love your videos. I learn a lot from them
You're basing an observation from a flawed complaint- muddy bed doesn't equal bad. There is no proof of this. In fact, many or most of the world brewers champ beds are muddy....
@@LanceHedrick i feel kinda bad this is the first conversation i have with you (LOL) huge admirer. I really wanna hear your take on the new "sharper" outer burr 1zpresso has put on the lastest units of the x-pro s (since sep 2023) and the x-ultra (since launch). I believe the q2 air also has it but i'm not sure. Asser from CC said that it worsens flavor quite a bit, and even tho he seems like a good source, more people investigating the issue and calling out if 1zpresso is worsening their burrs would be interesting. On regards to this comment, i agree on the muddy bed part. I've just seen a few complaints on the opus as a filter grinder on the sub, especially regarding clarity. I feel like ode gen 1 (cheaper than upus currently)+ ode 2 burrs at the current price or a handgrinder is a better option. It's probably much better than older grinders still.
The singing annoys me in a sense where I'm, for some weird reason, looking forward to it. I personally don't like it, which doesnt matter, but I'll still keep watching your Videos. Thanks for the great content.
I bought a Encore Esp during BF, have had problem with retention about a couple of weeks later and tried bellows with no luck. Customer service still working on my case…
Hi love the video great over view for all the grinders might look into getting the Encore ESP currently using the OXO burr grinder which works okay but would like something better for my home espresso also looking into possibly a hand grinder instead. But i was wondering where to get the bellows you use in this video, tired looking and am unable to find and the Oxo doesn't have any after market ones available I could find. Thanks and again like a lot of your videos have a bunch lined up to watch.
Really good condensed vid Lance of the down and dirty deets although I also love your longer detailed vids including blind tastings etc. I feel that I've been taking one step forward then two steps back with my grinder searching journey. I could budget up to $700 (USD) but I'm not sure that I really need to spend that much money to achieve my best espresso (good body, texture & some clarity, med-dark roasts, no filter only espresso). After taking into account the current cons you mentioned about the VS3, I could wait for a Gen 2 version?? VS3 although it would seem the VS3 gives a thinner, less body & texture, more clarity & fruit result although Varia's different burr set options could change that but not sure? If I had to purchase now, I don't think I could go past the ESP and I wouldn't even consider the Opus. Also I thought maybe the Turin SD40 would suit filter better than espresso? I have been more focussed on a conical burr grinder due to my preferred espresso tasting profile however you may disagree so I would appreciate your thoughts. Cheers.
I gotta ask! Just because it's hard kind of finding this exact scenario anywhere but if I have the Sette 30 upgraded with the 270 burrs for $210 and a Vs3 for $200 what would you specifically keep in your home? (I would like more focus on the espresso but also decent filter coffee)
Got the lagom mini (moonshine burrs) for ~CAD$500 based on versatility, portability and my preference towards modern espresso. Sadly, 4 months in to ownership I've already had the motor replaced by the great folks at Cafune (Montreal). Love the grinder but I really have my doubts as to what will happen to it once the warranty expires. It's a shame as the lagom mini is super sleek and at USD~$400 a really nice cheaper entrypoint in to the sleek "apple-like" Option-O UX. I definitely prefer the overall workflow and feeling over my packed away Encore.
Just curious if you purchased the mini before they upgraded the motor and power supply? I have not had any problems, but who knows what awaits. (I also bought mine from Cafune. These folks are terrific.)
Its like youre making these videos for me specifically!!! Lol. Since i got your attention. Im having extraction issues! I got the sd40 and gaggia pro with stock opv. I bought some tools from your amazon link! I wdt and tamp, and i always find my puck with a huge hole on the edge. I have not been able to figure out what i am doing wrong!
