BUFFY THE VAMPIRE SLAYER 4X19 REACTION | First Time Watching 

WARNING: don't look for details about first on-screen kisses in history -- major risk of spoiler bits.

Yep, unfortunately the network wouldn't let two women kiss back in 2000. Hence the "spell" metaphor for sex a few episodes ago - the Buffy writers had to find creative ways to show Willow and Tara's relationship. Alyson and Amber both fought hard to get as much intimacy as they were able to, too.

Willow’s coming out scene is one of the best ones on TV

Willow and Tara's first on-screen kiss was "the first kiss between two women in a long-term relationship on US television". There'd been kisses between women beforehand. And the reason they're being very vague about the relationship in the show at this point is because the network they were on wouldn't allow more obvious displays of same-sex romance. I always end up feeling bad for Oz in this episode. Whoever wrote this episode had a good handle on what it's like when you finally figure out your sexuality but you don't want to harm your ex-partner because they're a good person.

Such a gut-wrenching episode. But also so sweet. I appreciate that the show never makes us dislike Oz or tries to prioritize straight or gay relationships over the other. Willow isn't shoehorned into being any particular orientation. She just loves Tara. And she also loves/loved Oz. They're both people, and both loves are valid.

You mentioned this time and last your surprise that "Giles" can sing, but [Fun Fact] A.S. Head actually started his acting career in musical theatre, and in fact a few years before Buffy he played the Tim Curry role in a London stage production of The Rocky Horror Show(!) 💋

Near the beginning when you say that Willow and Tara haven't actually done anything together yet... Just because I couldn't show it doesn't mean it didn't happen. When they did the spell and there was the giant o around them, that was literally the show's way of saying yes they're having sex. In this episode they literally talking about moving in together and getting a pet. You don't do that with someone you haven't even kissed yet.

tare needs to be protected🛡 at all cost, she is just to innocent ❤

My old dvd version doesn’t have all those recaps, so the first time you see Oz is when he turns up at the door. I think they also spoilt Faiths return earlier, if only by moments.

Riley isn't like "who's this?" Riley was a TA in classes that Oz was taking. He just didn't know Oz was a werewolf.

Don't want to get too icky but I always thought Oz smelled more than a single hug off Tara. And Tara's attitude was pretty confident suddenly in her relationship with Willow. So I think just before that is the first time they got together. It's also why Oz jumped to the conclusion so quickly and certainly and was so hurt by it.

Spell was used for sex as a metaphor with Tara and Willow because most TV, at the time, didn't allow for lesbian relationship storylines beyond experamenting before going back to boys. And the ones that did played into characters critisizing it so much that being gay was the character's trait and personality. None of those moments aged well. The writers didn't want that for Willow so they had to use the metaphor to hide it from the higher ups at the network until this episode stated it more blatantly (and at this point the networks couldn't say no without ruining the story flow) and to hide it from the fanbase, some of who did have issues with, some for Willow being gay and some for Tara not being Oz. This moment was a turning point in TV history because of all these things. EvilQK is acting like Buffy's dense in Willow's coming out scene, but 23 years ago it wasn't just something people easily stated. It was a time when society as a whole, whether you had a problem with it or not, felt uncomfortable and didn't talk about it because many people considered it wrong. Buffy's confusion turning into ackward becoming genuine friendship moment is justified for how society acted about it. I applaudecd Buffy for taking very little time to pull herself together and talk to Willow.

Damn, I had a whole cool comment to put on this one, but the only thing I can add is that WAY back in the late '70's, we actually had gay folks in high school. And we just accepted it as part of their personality. You might see a lesbian kiss at some point in this series, but I ain't gonna spoil it.

3:55 Certainly Oz and Willow were deeply in love. At the time Oz was what she needed and she went to pieces when he left, although she was emotionally strong enough to get over it after a few months and it seemed certain he was not coming back. Willow has moved on and her needs have changed, Oz is no longer what she needs, Tara is. 4:35 Tara is stressed, her stutter, which had mostly disappeared, comes back 16:15 Now she has some closure with Oz, she can be happy about being intimate with Tara. I think their rough break-up held her back.

16:30 No. The first wlw kiss was on “LA Law.”

"nawww so gay" hahaha. That scene is one of the cutest things ever!

1986: Lindsay Ann Brice played a recurring role as lesbian cop Kate McBride on Hill Street Blues. 1988: Nurse practitioner Marilyn McGrath and chef Patty of HeartBeat became the first recurring lesbian couple on American television. 1991: The first-ever lesbian kiss on network television happened in Episode 512 of David E. Kelley’s L.A. Law, when C.J (Amanda Donohoe), a bisexual lawyer, kissed her female colleague Abby Perkins (Michele Greene). 1995: Dax and one of their past loves kiss on screen. I thought that was the first broadcast tv girl on girl kiss, but seems not. 1997: Relativity (ABC) open mouth girl on girl then to the bedroom. 1997: Ellen (ABC) duh. 1999: Party of Five (Fox) Skipped a few 2001: Buffy the Vampire Slayer Minor spoilers ahead: Buffy was the first show to really go all out with a lead lesbian character in an actual relationship that lasted through many episodes, actual acknowledgment of the two girls having sex, frank discussions of sexual orientation, a non-catastrophic coming out, and not one but two eventual female love interests for Willow.

The kiss you're referencing hasn't taken place yet and you should definitely avoid looking it up for spoilers. And it wasn't the first on-screen kiss, it was the first non-sexualized kiss between romantic gay partners. Prior to the episode which you haven't yet seen, the only time there had been a homosexual kiss on TV had been sensationalized kissing. There was a kiss in an older episode of Roseanne, kisses between women in other shows, but all of them were played for ratings and were all between a straight main character and a lesbian. They were all introduced to wild cheers from the studio audience or the canned laugh track and played so that the commercials leading up to premiere could show two women kissing and pull in ratings. They were always one-off things that never happened between committed partners and were always sexualized and played up for that reason. Keep watching the show and eventually you'll see the kiss that Joss threatened to leave the show if they wouldn't let him air. He felt very strongly that he wasn't going to ever do the sexy kissing for ratings between Willow and Tara as that would just cheapen their relationship and he waited to show their first on-screen kiss until it was the perfect time.

I don’t know if this will be considered spoilers - if they are, please delete monitors or tell me to delete. The great thing about Willow and Tara’s romantic/sexual relationship is how natural and normal they treat it. Yeah, there’s jokes about them being lesbians every now and again but it’s not in a gratuitous or creepy way. It’s always in a very funny and relatable way. There’s also gender stereotypes between them but it never really has anything to do with them being a couple. They’re treated very much like every other couple on the show is - which means they’ll have their conflicts and drama every now and again just like the straight couples do. The fact that they are equal to the straight couples in how they’re treated, for me, only serves to give them proper and true representation. The only way they can’t be equal is with the explicit sexual stuff because network censors were a thing back then. But believe me when I say - just like Xena and Gabrielle - it works for them to be less sexual and more emotional. There are really heavy things that this couple deals with that no other couple does and in that way they are special in their own right. And I really can’t go into more detail than that but trust me when I say that what people hate about this couple, I love them for it. For representing that. It makes them real, it makes them genuine, and that is true representation. Avoiding or masking it is not. Again, I can’t go into detail as to what I mean by this - but you’ll know what I mean when you get there. It’s one hell of a ride Kassidy. Willow and Tara may not be the best WLW representation there is. But, to me, they are the truest. Meaning they feel very real. You will not get fairytale crap with this WLW couple.

The network was really strict on not allowing any kissing or pretty much any show of intimacy between gay characters. Willow and Tara even being admitted as being in a lesbian relationship and even holding hands was a big deal. They were part of many firsts. One major one was being the first gay couple among main characters. Other shows had the occasional gay side characters, but no mains. Even then it was often for a joke. And even after this many networks were still rather strict on gay characters. Dawsons Creek was famous for having a prominent gay character that was never allowed to date, while all the other characters were always dating someone before switching to someone else next episode (they did finally rectify it later). They basically allowed the character to be gay, in name only.

You should just skip the "previously on episode" part. It just spoils the surprises that will come up on the episode. And pretty much the teaser at the beginning and even the episode titles are spoilers on Buffy and Angel from here on out for the rest of both of the shows.

The only mistake Oz made was not telling Buffy in Wild At Heart what had happened. He never had control over the wolf inside. He tried his best but it was all beyond his control that's why he had to leave because he loved Willow so much but knew it was her that would always bring the wolf out in him. Xander gave him the impression in this episode that she was still single. It's a tragic love triangle with three people, who we really like so much. It's great that Riley shows how much he cares for Buffy by helping to free Oz. Oz makes the ultimate sacrifice again knowing they can never be together as Willow is the trigger for his transformation. It was great to see Tara and Willow back together again. One the better episodes of S4.

One of my fave eps of the series. Too bad you already knew about Willow and Tara. I am so glad you cut out the Adam scene(even though it was with Spike) That "villain" bores the hell out of me.

Do not look for their first on screen kiss... Just dont.

really great to see you loving the show. This season has not the best villain and main arc but character's development and college it is really well done and written, especially Willow' storyline, really excellent this season. This was one of the first gay couple developped on a cable channel so it was complicated to see a kiss or something else at this moment...it is nice to see a gay relationship shown as just two persons falling in love simply without doing it like a marketing or special thing, but sure a big step to Willow's character

Today i met Oz 😭❤️

Damn the recap for spoiling Oz's return to you!X-((( I wanted to see your shocked face!😱 07:35 - 07:40 GOD!!!! I love them both SO MUCH!!!!😭🤍🧡 You can look for the 1st-kiss-thing,but prepare to *HUGE SPOILERS* if you do!

The conversation with Buffy and Willow in their dorm room was Willow’s coming out confession since she didn’t get an entire coming out storyline. Buffy was the very first person (besides Tara, obviously) she told about her and Tara being more than friends and Buffy was taken aback by it. So no. Buffy didn’t know and didn’t have any suspicions about them. Neither did any of the Gang. The only other person to know was Faith but only because she assumed it and took it as true because Tara doesn’t deny it. That’s why she brings up Oz. She knew Tara would be uncomfortable by him being mentioned. Trying to make it out as she was a “for the moment” thing. She’d take Oz back. I have an interpretation that in ‘Superstar’ Willow and Tara staged a “goodbye” scene while in front of Buffy. Willow was fully intending to go up to Tara’s dorm with her but couldn’t because Buffy was with them. I assume she went back to her when Buffy left so it’s likely they had being sexually intimate then. Even if it was just making out. And given Willow tries to make a move on Tara in the frat house in ‘Where The Wild Things Are’, it’s not too far of a reach to say that she was comfortable or familiar with being physical with her. Everybody’s hormones were on high in that episode so it’s not an illogical conclusion to come to that theirs were too. However, I think the ending scene of this episode was their actual “first time”. I think you’re to understand Tara blowing out the “extra-flamey” candle as Willow and Tara finally acting on their desires and choosing to consummate their sexual relationship. What else could it be with Willow’s line before it: “I’m going to make it up to you starting right now”, Tara asking for clarification: “Right now?” and Willow nodding in the affirmative.

16:19 , yes they were , it will happen…

As an actual anarchist, just want to make it clear, we do not claim Riley Finn 😬

Oz did not cheat, the wolf had 6 with the other wolf

I love your reactions to this series because you're into the whole thing. Not just parts of the story telling i.e. characters. I'm a straight male and love watching a good story regardless the character's sexual orientation. You're the first reactioner who's into the characters whether or not they're straight or gay. I've watched others LGBT+ reactors reviews and it really turns me off when I hear people say "oh, I don't care about the straight character's story" or when the straight characters show up I hear some say "this is boring, let's get back to the gays". I think that thinking and reacting really sucks because all of the cast makes up the show. It's ok to like some more than others, I get it. I don't love the cast evenly either. I keep waiting to hear you say something negative about one of the characters because their straight but you never disappoint. That's why I just subscribe! Keep up the awesome work.

Yes, first lesbian kiss in US free TV... and yes, you havent seen it yet!

'I know Tara is end game' 🤣😂

I think Willow needed closure with Oz to accept a romantic/sexual relationship with Tara. And that’s something I really like about this whole storyline. It’s not so much choosing between a boy or a girl. It’s just choosing between Oz or Tara. She chose Tara. Gender doesn’t come into it and to be perfectly honest - it never really does when it comes to Willow. It’s just the assumption that she is straight. She never actually says she is. Like at any point in the show thus far. So it does throw you off a tad when it’s revealed she’s with Tara and so your reaction would be similar to Buffy’s even though you know more was going on between them than she did. This was when same-sex relationships weren’t as accepted on TV so they had to be so careful with how they went about representing it. I think they handled it really well given the times. As I said - making it about Willow choosing between a person rather than a gender since gender is irrelevant.

The reason Oz could smell Willow on Tara is because Tara is wearing Willow’s sweater. And y’all aren’t clever about dropping spoilers.

💖

DO NOT LOOK UP THERE FIRST KISS MAJOR SPOILERS !!!!!!! 😅😅😅😅😅😅

You "know that they haven't even done anything yet"?! What show have YOU been watching, hahaha? Go back and watch those sweaty, hand-holdy, panting, big-o floating over them "spells" a bit more closely.

Don’t look up the first lesbo kiss… will only give you ,major spoilers

I am afraid you are wrong about the first screen femme kiss on US TV. That belongs to Star Trek Deep Space Nine, in one of the show's better episodes "Rejoined." ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-gbtqmbDqtuY.html

First! 👻☕

Posting my BUFFY REWATCH recap for ‘New Moon Rising’. May contain spoilers. Well, this is it. This is the big reveal. And it’s finally a narrative that I can work with for writing my meta. A brief summary: Oz is back. In this episode he learns that his werewolf condition has nothing to do with being based on the lunar cycle but it does have to do with when he gets angry or is subjected to negative energy of any kind. This is especially true surrounding his feelings for Willow. Oh, but that’s not the BIG ISSUE of this episode. No. The BIG ISSUE is Willow now has someone else. She has Tara and she’s falling deeper and deeper in love with her every day. And uh oh,... here is her first real love driving back into her life asking for her back, a lost love that she has mourned for the first half of the season, a love she still feels something for even now despite being in a relationship with Tara... What the bloody hell does she do? THUS, CONFLICT. ANGST. DRAMA. AND GOD DAMN GOOD FUCKING ACTING PERFORMANCES ENSUES. THIS EPISODE IS INCREDIBLE! I have chosen to quote the confession scene between Buffy and Willow just because it sums up the entire story the best - and it shows you how Buffy reacts which is incredibly important for the validation of both Willow’s acceptance of her sexuality and acceptance of the relationship she has with Tara now that Oz is back in the picture. The conclusion to this episode is a double self-affirmation for Willow, and for anyone watching that has her as their self-insert character and that relates to and resonates with her difficult situation in this episode: “I have chosen to be with a woman I have feelings for.” AND “I have chosen to be with a woman I have feelings for even when a man wants me. A man I have previously loved and still have feelings for.” Yes, there’s the added complication that Oz still wolfs out and particularly while around Willow - but they’ve dealt with that before, they could deal with it again. No, Willow has made an INFORMED CHOICE. She CHOSE Tara over Oz. Oz: “But you’re happy *being with Tara*?” Willow: “I am.” This is incredibly important validation not just for closeted lesbians - but also for private WLW couples who constantly have men coming in and out of their life that they’re being assigned to or suited with by the company they keep. That they may have even been in a relationship with previously - either by their own free will or by force/pere-pressure from their family, friends and community. This episode is HUGE validation for that AUDIENCE specifically and solely. Respect!

You're gonna have to wait a little while for first onscreen kiss. Not what I would I call a ridiculous amount of time but enough to get frustrated if you go into every episode asking, "Is this the one?" Dialogue makes it clear they're macking though, including one of the funniest lines in the series to me. I have to assume plenty of the wait is the reality of the early 2000s, network execs were reportedly against. My understanding is there had been episodes of different television shows with female kisses before but never in terms of exploring an actual relationship of core characters... y'know like, any prior female kisses were one off "very special episodes" explicitly about the topic of homosexuality. On Buffy the kiss is deployed in an extremely important episode for the entire series and it really matters. I'm not talking some kind of fairy tale plot mechanics bullshit magic kiss. I mean in the sense of exploring characters as if they're real people with real emotions... if they didn't kiss in the scene in question it would have broken all suspension of disbelief for me. At the same time there's no swelling of music and big buildup, it's just treated as a normal moment between them.

so as a heterosexual dude I obviously am kinda talking with no authority on the subject matter, Im aware, but Willow is not "gay". She is bisexual, right? And Im pretty sure Tara knows that very well. 90s TV might have been trying to make sexual attraction a bit more binary "simple" than reality actually was - but then again: Just another step in a long line of steps over decades. Im pretty sure some of the distinctions made these days when it comes to the spectrum of human attraction or whatever we call it would have melted peoples brains back then :D But again: What the hell do I know ;)

Semi spoilerish behind-the-scenes drama ... I enjoy this episode, but if you listen to the original DVD commentaries, you start to get a glimpse of JW's true vindictive nature. He passes it off as a joke, but he goes on about how pissed he was at SG and that part of his intention with the storyline was to sully OZ's character and the Willow/Oz relationship. It would be easy enough to just take it as a joke as presented, but given what we know about how JW treated members of the cast, especially when they didn't do exactly what he wanted, it comes off pretty bad.

I thought oz going to join the ANGEL TEAM

It's not the first kiss between women on TV, i'm not sure what show holds that record, but i know DS9 did it earlier, but I do think Willow and Tara share the first lesbian sex scene on broadcast network tv

Those “previously on” segments are so annoying…

At the beginning Tara backed off to give Willow the space to deal with her feelings. First kiss in a us-network show. "So gay!" No, just love (or did you mean the old meaning of the word 'being in a good mood?). It's a little sad, when viewers have the bias 'it's good because it's gay', cause it decreases this really wonderful relstionship to their orientation. Amber Benson said in they 20th anniversary reunion that it showed 'it doesn't matter the sex, the gender, they are just two people falling in love and are of the same sex coincidently'. When this kind of viewing becomes common sense, all the fights (at least) about LGB will come to an end.

Does anyone else think Oz’s reaction to finding out Willow and Tara are involved in ‘New Moon Rising’ is a little extreme? Like he straight up turns into a werewolf and tries to attack Tara based on that information alone. I’d like to say that he’d react like that even if it wasn’t Tara or if it was another male - Xander or some other dude - but I don’t know. It was a pretty blatant “oh my god, Willow is in love with a girl?!” reaction to me. Of course there were better ways of him finding out. Like Willow telling him the night before when she talked with him all night… but I feel like he would have reacted the very same anyway. It was just,.. a bit much. Especially for Oz. Borderline violent masculinity behaviour from him there at the thought that Willow could possibly be dating Tara. All for the shock factor I suppose. 🤷‍♀️ And I can’t really decide whether that “Run” was a warning or a threat. I like Oz. I think he is a great character as an individual that can teach you a lot. But I’m not going to lie. I think he is a violent character. Similar to Pete from ‘Beauty And The Beasts’. He seems like a nice guy. Cool, calm and collected on the surface but under closer observation, and at a deeper level, is very much the opposite to that. You would never expect it of him. Don’t bottle up your emotions kids… it does things to you eventually that you can’t be in conscious control of all the time. But it will still be your responsibility to prevent it. Oz does that by locking himself in a cage or by leaving town. By removing the danger. But I think his theme is violent masculinity. At least as far as his arc in Season 4 goes. I think his character represents the restriction of emotional expression and the pressure to conform to expectations of dominance and aggression. As a supernatural werewolf storyline this is mostly justifiable. But looking at it non-supernaturally, of which the show provides a supernatural metaphor for with almost every theme, storyline and character… what it’s getting at is how aggression takes control of a person when their base instincts are capitalised on and their senses are heightened. Oz’s story, at least to me, isn’t one of keeping the beast at bay - it’s exacerbating it. I know that wasn’t always the plan for his character because the actor had to leave abruptly. But it’s still a story worth telling and a lesson worth teaching. It’s a very interesting and compelling story to be engaged with. Can we ever be consciously in control of our emotions if we don’t ever take the opportunity to release them and would rather keep them bottled up because then we can at least say we’re trying not to let them get the better of us and cause our loved ones any harm?

Oz didn't cheat, he has no awareness of what the werewolf does.

I have two gripes with the writing. 1. Willow referring her self discovery of queerness as "I changed". 2. Willow telling Oz her love for Tara is "totally different" than what she and him had. That kind of pisses me off, again making a queer relationship this different thing. I kind of hate that. It's clear this character was written by straight people. Still, good intentions I'd like to think but this shortcoming of Willow being written by straight people will resurface time and again.

STOP WATCHING THE PREVIOUSLY ON, IT ONLY GIVES SPOILERS, WHY DO YOU WATCH THEM???

Speaking as a man, this episode was just too pink for me. Every time this show portrays extreme, or militant, masculinity, at the very last moment, the hyper-masculine character completely undoes that vibe with some kind of joke. Or, a character standing next to him makes a joke, which completely ruins the otherwise heavy macho vibe. But this show does not do the same thing with hyper-femininity. Every time extreme, or militant, femininity is portrayed, this show just let's it play out in its full dignity without ruining it with a joke meant to make fun of it. I really wish both sides would be treated equally. But, oh well. Also, if you take Tara's orientation completely out of the equation, she is a walking talking stereotype of a right wing extremist female - completely submissive and super feminine housewife type, or the quintessential 1950s woman, which messes with my mind.