We're up to episode 5 of season 3 on Patreon! www.patreon.com/user?u=46537541 This episode was so freaking sad, but so good at the same time :( What did you guys think of it? How much did you cry? lol
Hi Riley. Loved your reaction to the whole episode. Felt bad for you seein you so happy when Jenny said she fell in love with Giles. One of best episodes , one of best reactions, lookin forward to see more ;)
Welcome to our favourite roller coaster. Now you're fully initiated into the Buffy fandom, having shed tears with us all. (Literally, a lot of people will cry while watching you this episode.) We welcome you with open arms and wet faces. This is what we love and hate.
Riley at the beginning: Today we're watching Buffy the Vampire Slayer season 2, episode 17. Yay! Everyone who's seen 2x17 already and knows that there's nothing "yay" about this episode: Oh, honey.
Ah, the difference between seeing Giles smile when Jenny said she loved him vs Him smiling when he reads the note saying upstairs. Everyone who's lived through this episode is changed by it
This is the episode where we learn that Angel is a sadist. An emotional sadist. That smile on his face while he is watching Buffy and Willow break down over the news of Jenny's death.
This episode was done the way that it was, to show that Angel is gone and the monster that murdered Jenny Calendar, that's Angelus. Also, how not just evil Angelus, how much pleasure he takes in causing misery to others, to him creating Pain is like his Art.
I interpreted Buffy's "Good keep it up" was confirming that she was making headway in forgiving her, but wasn't quit there yet. So it was a piece of an olive branch. Not complete, but letting her know that she wanted her back with GIles, and would eventually be good with her herself.
I kind of feel Buffy forgave her in that scene, but acknowledged that she is still suffering so much that her should suffer so more too. That scene feels like she had every intention to just forgive Jenny, but when she saw her she just wasn't ready yet.
@@juzujuzu4555 so Jenny kept a secret from Buffy like Buffy hasn’t kept secrets herself. Jenny probably thought it didn’t matter to share because she never knew Angelus would return. But it’s better to be safe than sorry
@@lessismore8533 She was sent there to essentially spy on Buffy and Angel. Also she is adult. Buffy is teenager, and she is the one leading the fight, so she should have more freedom anyway. You just cannot forgive this absolute deception and betrayal. Let alone forgive it after Buffy's life got phucked over. It's certainly forgivable thing in the long run, but not right after everything. To me Buffy kind of forgive Jenny by saying she should continue to suffer. Her wounds are just too deep to let it all go away just at that point.
OMG I felt so bad for you when you said how happy you were about Giles and Jenny. But this is an epic episode and really shows you where this show is willing to go.
Poor little Riley😥 If you notice when Angel was chasing Jenny, in the classroom when he grabbed her, he threw her right at the door which ended up letting her to run away but as you see, Angel when he began chasing her, he was just walking for a little bit and then when she threw the janitor's wheel cart at Angel, he didn't even bother to move out of the way and as you saw, he was literally up the stairs in seconds to grab Jenny and kill her😱 that tells you Angel could have killed her at any moment but he let her believe that she had a chance to escape before snapping her neck.The vampire Angelus didn't even bother to drink her blood. It just that beautiful game of torture for him😈
Miss Riley, you seem to have made it through without resorting to tissues. And you didn't break down uncontrollably in middle of the episode, unless that's what I'll find on the unedited reaction. Riley, don't ever apologize for an emotional reaction to a _Buffy_ episode. That's what we're here for, and you're doing great. Thanks for sharing.
Giles at the beginning of the episode: "You mustn't let Angel get to you, no matter how provocative his behavior may become." Giles later in the episode: Suicidally enraged
This was such a moving episode for me. I was shocked when Jenny died. I couldn't really believe it. It made the show real. This really showed how Angelus is. Great reaction. Enjoyed seeing you on the roller-coaster.
There are a few episodes in the show that are very significant in some way, this right here might be the biggest of them all. While this season as a whole kind of set the tone for the rest of the show, this episode truly is the final turning point. That shot of Angelus snapping Jenny's neck haunts me in a good way.
I can't praise the genius of writing on this show sometimes enough. A little detail in this episode that is worth mentioning: Giles tells Buffy to not let Angel get to him but as soon as he sees Jenny dead, he goes full Ripper mode.
Proves that though Giles is a father figure but even HE needs help sometimes! Very realistic for ppl in REAL life relationships with their parents. Though it’s parents job to set the EXAMPLE for their child, parents can still slip up, and if the kid/young adult is wise enough to realize that, the parent has done his/her job. Very well written ep bur DARN you Joss for killing Jenny..
This episode is so painful and poetic and beautiful and so sad. I love it but it has never stopped being hard to watch. What's left of Season 2 is a hell of a ride.
Xander didn't like Angel because Angel is a vampire, and not just a vampire but the most violent vampire of them all. Xander's friend got killed by a vampire in the pilot, thus his distrust against vampires makes sense. Xander is usually the one who connects stories to reality. In reality most of us would think 242 year old mass murdering vampire, even with a soul, is not a good thing. Of course Xander is jealous, but his hate is not about jealousy, that is just the cherry on top of the cake.
When BTVS first aired, having an ongoing plot was relatively new, especially in it's genre & this episode really highlights the idea that what happens can & will have consequences later on.
I agree with you about Jenny trying to to the right thing, I've said the same. Her motives were good, she just lied about who she is and why she's there. As for Xander he said to Angel in the season 1 finale something to the effect he thinks at the end of the day Angel is a vampire. He wasn't wrong, Angel has always had a demon in him, only the curse allowed him to have a soul and overrule that demon.
It's a sad thing that happened in this episode, and I feel bad for you for having to go through that. I felt the same way the first time that I saw it.
Seen the show a couple of times since its release, i have watched reactors a couple of times and i can't help crying everytime, we don't watch reactors like angelus watching buffy and willow cry, with a smile on our faces, we know what is coming and yet still feel it with you, this episode in particular is a roller coaster, great reaction, hope to see you soon on patreon
I must say, I am just loving your reactions to these episodes. Thanks for uploading them! I feel like I'm reliving the series again for the first time, as your responses remind me of when I watched it as a younger person, and your commentary on top of that is also very astute and endearing... This episode is kind of a masterpiece, I feel, along with a few more from Seasons 2 and 3. The show took a turn for the worse as of Seasons 6 and 7, in my own personal view, but this series has always been a big part of my life since childhood. I really cherish it and I still remember being devastated when Ms. Calendar died.
Welcome to Whedon 1. Angel is a Vampire. Plot can twist. 2. Angel is evil again. Plot can twist. 3. Angel kills Jenny. Characters can be killed. Things can change quickly. Joss can be sadistic in his writing (I cannot vouch for other accusation).
This episode is brutal. Awesome, but brutal. This is the episode of television that taught me a very consistant rule. If you see characters really happy, that is the warning that they're about to get wrecked. "Yeah, my wife and I are getting back together, the kids are doing great in school, and I'm retiring tomorrow. Also, I just bought a boat I've named the 'Live Forever'..." RIP
Proves that though Giles is a father figure to Buffy, even HE needs help sometimes! Very realistic for ppl in REAL life relationships with their parents. Though it’s parents job to set the EXAMPLE for their child, parents can still slip up, and if the kid/young adult is wise enough to realize that, the parent has done his/her job. Very well written ep bur DARN you Joss for killing Jenny
It's pretty clear that you weren't alive when this was broadcast. Before shows like Buffy came around there weren't a lot of seasonal story arcs. There were soap operas and there was syndicated TV. You grew up in the Golden Age of TV were TV shows had production value, story arcs interesting writing, ect. ect. It's endlessly fascinating you me to watch someone of your age/generation watch one of the OG original shows to have this level of writing and story and character and still have it be effective. Thank you for your reaction.
People act like jealousy is the only emotion Xander has. Angel threw him out a 2nd floor window last episode and tried to kill him, after trying to kill Willow 2 episodes before that. It's not just jealousy. He has very legitimate reasons for hating Angel now. Yes, he was just jealous before, but he also never tried to have him killed. In fact, Xander is the one that brought Angel with him to save Buffy from the Master, when Angel was just sitting around pouting. He was clear in that conversation at the end of the day he thinks Angel is just a vampire. Well those feelings are now cemented. And it's not jealousy, it's honest to God experience.
It amazes me that people just go to the “oh, he must be jealous” instead of the “he almost killed me. Tried to kill my best friend. Killed one of the teachers at my school we know” reasons
I feel like Xander has never liked Angel because he's a Vampire. I don't think it has anything to do with jealousy at all. I understand where he's coming from completely.
@@jspettifer I'm not going to hear this😡I already know how the series goes. Everything involving and how Xander feels about Angel involves jealousy. He's now just using the fact that Angel no longer has his soul as an excuse to act righteous about his hatred towards him.
@@WillsonT011 Without an ensouled vampire that never dated Buffy to compare with, it's hard to tell. But I'd say that Xander would have disliked and distrusted Angel, and opted for killing Angel as soon as he lost his soul, even if Buffy had never been interested in Angel, simply for being a vampire. The jealousy just adds to the already burning fire.
You can’t hold anything Angelus does against his good side…Angel. Without his soul, Angel has NO control. Xander can hate Angelus without hating Angel..even if it’s hard. It’s possible .
Um...lets not forget the time Angel (with his soul intact) almost got Xander killed/eaten by Spike on Parent Teacher night. Xander didn't like the guy before that...but when Angel pretty much handed him over to Spike because of the time Buffy 'danced' with Xander...then Xander started hating him. Xander's hate is justified. He has anger issues no doubt, but they're basically being stalked by a serial killer and Buffy can't/won't stop him.
Buffy does not have the same popping in and out of death that seems to happen in Supernatural. The writers suddenly killing off a character like that is now known as 'Jossing' because Joss Whedon did it so effectively here, and does it on other shows too. I feel this was particularly effective because it was (from the perspective of the good guys) a pointless death. It wasn't a heroic death of self sacrifice to save someone, it was empty.
Well I think Angel's past actions as a vampire should have a certain amount of consequences, which they do via the curse. But they should also incur some judgment from the gang. Everyone else in the gang acts like his past doesn't exist. Also, if we're looking at it on a superficial level, they're sophomores when the show starts and a guy who has graduated or is not in school is lurking around. Of course Xander should not like angel for those creepy reasons. Also angel NEVER liked or tried befriending Xander. So the hate is reciprocal.
I saw this episode for the first time back in like 2006 or something when I was 12 or 13, and the moment Giles' enters his apartment wasn't one I was like... capable of understanding. So rewatching it again after another five years or so, that moment hit me so hard I started bawling. Great episode, this is most definitely one of my all time favorites. But there are so many great episodes so... yeah.
Just when we thought that Giles and Jenny were going to rekindle their relationship, they took it away. AGAIN. And even though they took away, I want to see more. And I'm sure many more do/did also.
What a heart wrenching episode. Take care of yourself. :( Also a small heads up but you're probably aware at this point - Xander will be controversial for a long while, every reaction vid gets a bunch of Xander stans the moment someone criticizes him (which is like the majority of Buffy reactors on youtube).
While it's true that Xander didn't like Angel because he was dating Buffy, but that isn't the reason he hated him. He hated Angel because Angel is a vampire and he's hated vampires since they killed his best friend Jesse. "I'm going to go out on a limb and say they're [vampires] are bad."
Yes but Xander needs to SEPARATE Angel from Angelus. Angelus was the one cursed by the gypsies not Angel Plus Xander is acting like King Triton from Little Mermaid Like ONE human killed Ariel’s mom so he assumed ALL humans were bad..
"I didn't like his I-told-you-so moment because I didn't think it was deserved" YAAAAAS! Exactly!! Xander hates Angel because Buffy loves Angel, it's just jealousy. Angelus it not the same as Angel. Xander's disdain for Angel grinds my gears lol
When Angel smiles when Willow and Buffy are crying, it chokes me up every time because there are truly villainous people in this world who are like that-they get pleasure when others suffer. “For they sleep not, except they have done mischief; and their sleep is taken away, unless they cause some to fall.” (Proverbs 4:16) Heartbreaking television, and captivating storytelling.
I love and hate this episode, it is wonderful and terrible, drammatic and magnific.... it is amazing! Yeah Buffy and the Scoobies are teenagers, and it is right that they behave as such. Buffy is less immature than the others, she chose to sacrifice herself in 1x12, but she is however a kid and her reaction to Jenny is perfectly human, both negative and positive (however, Buffy was willing to welcome Jenny back into her life so as not to divide her from Giles.) For Xander we must remember Jess, he was his best friend, and he saw him became a vampire and died, that was be a big trauma for Xander........ and even the friendzone is hard to digest XD The question on Xander is the same, did he hate Angel because he is a vampire or because Buffy loved him?? The Jenny's death was be very brutal and, especially, irreversible (maybe)! The prove that nobody is save in this show, and the happy ending isn't obvious...... very heartbreaking moments Giles that find the Jenny's body, Angel admiring Buffy and Willow crying, and Buffy tearfully hugging Giles saying she can't do without him...... Yep Angelus is very terrible in this moment, a very and perfect Big Bad, Spike and Drusilla now are just his minions XD
Xander is often an immature jerk, no argument. And jealousy of Angel getting to date Buffy was obviously a major factor in his hatred of Angel. But, emotions are complicated and it is the truly painful ones that are the most difficult to discuss. I have to wonder if the scene in Season 1, Episode 2 (The Harvest) when Xander says, "I don’t like vampires. I’m gonna take a stand and say they’re not good," was more than just a throw-away line. He lost his best friend. He literally killed his best friend. And, he barely grieved. Granted, it was season 1 and events had much less impact on the overall story back then, but I gotta wonder if his hatred of Angel was in some part a projection of his hatred of himself for killing Jesse.
Also, after Jesse got turned, he pretended and Xander didn't figure out anything was off until Jesse deliberately exposed himself. I think that there is probably an element of 'if a new vampire could pretend to be my best friend so well that I didn't notice, how well can this super old crafty vampire pretend?' And as you said, he killed Jesse before coming to grips with the idea. Now if it turns out it's not all black and white, he could have done something for his friend, if he'd tried harder. It's better if all vampires are just evil, because then that was the right thing to do.
POTENTIAL SPOILERS I feel like if that was the case, then Xander would have mentioned Jesse at least once more since that pilot. Instead of him and Willow never bringing him up EVER again. But it was always framed as jealousy of Buffy's love for Angel, which came off as more whiny.
I wouldn't say that he has hatred for himself for killing Jesse. I would say that he has hatred for vampire for them killing Jesse. He may also blame himself for not being able to save Jesse. But he doesn't hate himself for eventually staking Jesse
@@Neurodivergent-j1f you think I'm thinking about this harder than the writers? Naaah 😅 It could have been the backbone of a character ark, but they went with pettiness and jealousy.
@@Neurodivergent-j1f SPOILERS In the comics, Xander actually gives Jesse's death as the reason he hates vampires so much. I added the part about self-hatred as a possible reason because he couldn't save Jesse. But, it is actually canon that Jesse's death was a reason, although it is clear that jealousy is a major reason with Angel. All I can say about why it is never brought up during the series is, maybe it was too traumatic for Xander and Willow. The reason it was not brought up was not explained in the comics.
I actually disagree about why Xander didn’t like Angel just because Buffy did. Think Xander more than anyone hates vampires because of Jesse. Xander very much thinks vampires are just monsters and the fact that Buffy was willing to trust Angel was beyond his understanding. He did choose a terrible moment to say I told you so, but I also get why. He’s angry about Jenny and definitely thinks some of the responsibility of her death falls on everyone who trusted Angel, especially Buffy. I don’t agree with him and I don’t think his attack on everyone else was justified, but I do get it.
Spoilers....... I love that storyline. You basically got a monster hunter, sleeping, ready to be awakened but in reality, it's all a plan by a monster who's afraid of a prophecy coming true😉
Get what you're saying about Xander, but you're wrong. He is jealous as all get out, but he's right. Buffy and Angel are highly attracted to each other, despite & because of being exactly the wrong people for each other. Its the whole star crossed lovers deal.
I find it interesting when people are creeped out by Angelus stalking Buffy at the beginning of the episode because Angel had that behavior as well and just because it was for different reasons, didn't make it any less creepy. What is the reason other than Xander saying it "cheapens it for the rest" that Giles doesn't want Joyce to know? Buffy had some good points about "until they find a spell." They didn't know how long it was going to be. And even with Angelus locked out Joyce knowing could help Buffy when she needs to leave to go slaying. So she doesn't have to sneak out after being grounded or so she doesn't get grounded in the first place like in previous episodes. I also think Xander is right when he says Buffy is Giles' Watcher's pet because of the last moment in that scene. This episode was done to show Angelus was more than just "cranky" as the crew said in S2 of the DVD Special Features. And while Angelus didn't want his soul restored, the whole purpose behind the mental torture, (as he said he did when describing his actions to Buffy in _Lie to Me,_ ) was to see Buffy's reaction from 10:08 - 10:21; because as Drusilla said, Drusilla's mental state is Buffy's endgame. "I hated Angel long before you jumped on the bandwagon" tells me Xander's hatred of Angelus, even now as he is dating Cordelia, still stems from Buffy liking Angel. Buffy saying he's right after his speech doesn't mean she thinks he is right. It means she knows he doesn't see the big picture that Giles is going to get himself killed. Xander proves this when he says, "And what's that?" I enjoy this episode because it advances a character that could have been "cranky" or could have been all talk. RIP Jenny, who's character was sacrificed to make that happen.
This is one of the original female super power character in a modern tv show and it is one of the best tv series ever and it is proof you can do a tv series about a powerful female character WITHOUT politics and it is so strange that so many people have not heard or seen it....you would not have bad copies like twilight or vamp diaries without buffy
xander is pretty much insufferable. i might be a little bit special, but the way i interpret buffy's words to jenny isn't harsh at all. buffy has noticed, and is crediting, jenny's remorse, and lets jenny know that. buffy's not satisfied yet, but she clearly implies that at some point she will be. buffy doesn't have to care how jenny feels, or to talk to her at all, and heaven knows buffy has a lot of bigger things to worry about. yet buffy has taken note of jenny's remorse, buffy believes it is sincere, and buffy takes the time to let jenny know. i think that's pretty decent of her.
@@jspettifer you know damn well he's already forgotten about his hijinks from last week. xander makes it abundantly clear where his feelings come from and it's not any of the more reasonable justifications fans like to make for him.
What does Jenny need to be remorseful for she didn't have sex with a corpse and its not like they didn't know that angel/us was cursed with a soul that they didn't bother to research.
@@ronaldfasshauer4390 "have sex with a corpse" wow, you're going full anti-giles, huh? you're gonna shame buffy for having sex with her boyfriend. what a piece of shit you are. "what does jenny need to be remorseful for" befriending buffy and giles under false pretenses, hiding information from them, and not coming clean until buffy tried to strangle her.
