Great stuff. I have built a 3s house battery with 600 x 18650 cells for my small motorhome , and also a cranking battery using 8 x headway cells, backing up super-capacitors . The cranking battery weighs 7kg and is now almost 2 years in service. Cranks a 5 cylinder engine much better than the old style lead-acid. The house battery, 12v, powers an induction stove through 4000/8000w inverter. Now 12 months old and doing very well for fridge and lights too. Here's what might help with battery builds... cork floor tiles make excellent insulation and shock absorbing layers. Cork chars but doesn't burn! Also, silicone sheets (place mats from ebay) also doesn't burn, is fairly thin, and acts as a good separation between cells if needed. Cheers from Oz, JohnT
Thanks, man. Great video! The problem is we can now purchase brand new commercial 1C 12V LiFePO4 batteries, including BMS and warranty at 40AH for $400 and 100AH for $730. This DIY solution is great for a hobbyist but not very cost effective. Thanks again!
@Lola Uro The $500 40AH battery in the video is equivalent to the $400 40AH commercial unit. For $700, you get 150% additional capacity for 57% additional cost.
Wow is all I can say. I’m researching building an RV out of a shuttle bus for me to live in and to use daily to help the homeless. I’m currently homeless and working on selling everything I own to buy and build the RV. I’ve already been making the contacts to be of service to my community. This is what I can see as a great solution to my power source needs. All I can say is it is because of people like you that I can see my dream come true.
This is a great job. I bought a replacement battery with LiFePO4 for my 260 bike after going throughout a couple of lead acid that left me stranded. Never again. Plenty of power and way ligther. I won´t go back ever to lead acid. And with your video, I will make my own now for my cottage in Venezuela. Thanks dude!.
Been a viewer from the start, never commented. I enjoy watching someone as interested in these batteries as I am. Have built many lithium projects and driven five of my conversions. I am a geek. Cannot help it!
@@Sr_iRL it depends on energy density you want and cost and how much labor you want to do. Now if going to use the 18650 chemistry it would be more energy dense to use the 21700 cells and if you dont need to cool prismatic or pouch cells may be better. You have to define what your goals for cost labor size energy density whether or not cooling will be needed amp draw etc among other things like the shape of the space they need to fit in etc first.
Thanks Jehu. I too have been waiting for an episode like this. I have been wanting to build a starter batter for my cars and this is it! I appreciate the fact that you are doing the R&D for me because I just can't find the time. This will allow me to focus on other projects that use this technology. Well worth my Patreon membership!
5:15 Look up "fish paper" for use in telecom DC power plants. It's cheap, thin and very effective as an insulator. Really enjoy the build video, thanks for sharing.
Used LiFePO4 cells are definitely worth it as long as they are balanced and not too worn out. And the peace of mind charging with off the shelf 12V chargers is priceless.
@@GBOAC personally I find it more useful to top balance especially if its just four rows in series. if you search "usb lifepo4 3.6v" on ebay, they will have individual charge circuits you can place on each row of cells for a nice and slow top balance charge.
After one year this build has entered the territory of purely educational. A 100Ah Battleborn would actually be cheaper than two of these even if you could still source the cells at the stated price. These cells are $88 new. Still a great build.
Thank you very much my friend for your videos. Thanks to you the wait is finally over for my own 38120s. Ordered 8 to make two 12 volt batteries for powering accessories on the electric bikes. I LOVE 12 volts. Just last week ran 12 volt into the house from the solar panel and battery bank. Installed an RV 12volt vent fan to be used as a whole house fan, venting the house and attic. Works great! Also have more than one car stereos running, like the one in the bathroom for a great sounding shower!
About time someone started a DIY Recycle!! I love it!!! Sadly the Buck talks the loudest today, if I had my way, I would have NiFe Cells driving all vehicles, why, because it is "Non-destructive" chemistry, Mr Edison's car is still able to run on his cells, the only replacement is the electrolyte every 30 odd years,, AND that is Potassium Hydroxide -- really good for the garden!!!!! Thank you Jehugarcia!!
These headway batteries are nice. I build a replacement battery for my lawn mower (36v lead acid). I am able to use the standard charger that came with it. I shorted the batteries a couple time during my build and ruined a few batteries. You definitely need to be careful not to short them.
most people who are wanting Lithium for a car, aren't wanting 12v, we are wanting them for our sound systems, which typically also includes a high output alternator. I myself am using a Mechman 370 amp Alternator that at idle is 14.4 volts, so for me, I use Lithium that rests at 14.8 when fully charged.
Due to the current being limited to 200 A by the bms, I'd say this would be unsuitable for use on a car. My puny little car uses a battery with a CCA about double the capacity of the BMS on this. Problem 2 with using it in a car is that the charging system on a car is optimised for lead acid, it will stress a lithium based battery. Problem 3, I would be very vary about putting a battery like this in the engine bay of a car lots of heat and vibration at the very least it would cause the screw connections to work loose in short order. Lithium shines in long deep charge discharge cycles which doesn't happen in ICE cars. A car wants several hundred amps for a few seconds to start it, once started the alternator will have it back fully charged within a minute and then the alternator runs all the electrical stuff itself. A car battery in a car will last for years, using a car battery in a deep charge discharge like for solar storage will fook it in a very few weeks. Horses for courses.
Finally! A thorough video compare to other videos on the web regarding the headway cells. Thermal vid and explanation definitely helps boost confidence when building a high amperage battery pack. Look forward to build a couple. Thanks Jehu!
Thanks for the Video clip! Excuse me for butting in, I am interested in your opinion. Have you ever tried - Rozardner Powerful Battery Reality (erm, check it on google should be there)? It is a smashing one of a kind product for learning how to recondition an old battery minus the hard work. Ive heard some extraordinary things about it and my mate after many years got great results with it.
It would have been very nice to see some discussion/commentary about the use of these in a vehicle, and how well they match with the function of the alternator etc without modifying the car. There is a lot of information missing here.
I would love to have a 1 on 1 with jehu asking these questions. I really want a couple of these powering my amplifier for sub system in my truck. But I'm unsure of the amperage and watts and charging system if it were tied into my lead acid under the hood
Very nice video! Great job on that build! My one and only "issue" however is using 'combustable' cardboard as spacing material. It could also attract & hold moisture. As I said however in your 300k video, I'd love to have that for my ham radio gear! Wow! That thing would probably power my 100W radio for nearly a week without recharging. (Avg. radio power usage much less than 100W...) great for emergency communication; like during earthquakes, fires, etc. Remember, when all else fails (including cell towers!) - ham radio is there! (During the Paradise fire last year; amateur radio operators were attached to the various command units & fire/emt/equipment trucks to provide communications after all of the local cell towers & CalFire comm. towers failed/burned!)
Swine radio stations haha! Dude why the hell would you listen to pigs during an earthquake? I think ur high af this video is about batteries not imaginary radio stations ran by pigs, TAKE UR MEDS
I do not care about no free battery. You are doing a good job there young man. With Isaac Arthur, Fraser Cain , Elon Musk , Will Prowse and you of course All of you are doing a good job at enlightenment to us not so savvy folks. Thank You
This would work great for what I'm doing at my neighbors house house, I'm helping to get her set up with a few solar panels and lights and wind generator. Shes on a fixed income so this looks perfect. Awesome job.
Liked the video. You have been a good teacher. I built my own power box from your inspiring vids but I couldn't afford a 200 AH lithium battery so I had to make it out of 2 AGM which are heavier than hell. LOL.. But I got it done before our last hurricane and but it to work supporting my refrigerators and freezers. Its all good!
Cardboard is a no-no in electronics, it absorbs humidity (removing its sole purpose here), can be de-integrated by molds, and of course spreads fire if it would even start as smoldering in a corner. He should have used hard plastic plates (just like the material of the box) padded with inflammable, non-static foam on both sides. Imho the sides of the enclosure should have been padded as well to prevent wear from vibrations. Also are the cells just resting on their screws on the bottom??? That would certainly damage the bottom of the box in the long run. Cardboard wouldn't help there, they would sink through it in days. The example is fine for a 12V power source in your lab or stationary set up, but not really suitable for a car or some other vehicle. You also risk liability when a fire would spread from this, as it doesn't quite meet any safety standards.
Yup, I use plastic from cheap dollar store school folders. To make it even better, but non-servicable, is to pour casting resin to hold everything in place inside the battery box since vibration from engine will rattle and even unscrew the joints.
@@1FishinAddict resin for the bottom yes, like maybe 1 or 2 cm high, preferably with an already solidified bottom layer before putting in the batteries. But not the entire box as it isolates heat too, and if one cell would emit gasses which then can't escape, you made yourself a little bomb.
I know this is many months old, yet I still hope you read comments on old videos. AND of course this is a RV Trailer type question, don't run yet. I'm building my own ATV hauler/camper out of a large cargo trailer so maybe that can add to the curiosity to read further. I'm wanting to use LiFePo4 batteries like you have shown here yet up the count to 56 (14x4) to get into that 100Ah range for off grid camping and still being able to enjoy many luxuries while doing so. However I have a nice little 40A rated power panel that is set up for lead acid. Given that this power panel really cannot handle charging LiFePo4 100Ah pack at full speed, I have thought about adding a 300A diode in the output to the trailer power panel to reject incoming power to use a separate 120V charger. I can also easily build a over-volt cutoff as well to disconnect the battery while charging, since when plugged in to mains the power panel is capable of 40A output or less to the trailer electrical at 13.8 - 12.8V. The reason I ask this is during off grid scenarios I may be required to top off my charge with a 4KW nominal generator. Given this information what charger would be suitable and do you think this would be a beneficial modification for RV use? I patiently await any replies from you or other experts. Thank you all for your time. Stu
im a professional racing drone pilot and ive been trying to figure out a way to charge 4s lipos in the field with 18650's i think i may give something like this a try, love the channel bro ive been watching for a few months now!
Hi, I've seen your detailed video & I liked it, however I am always battery-overheating-phobic, wouldn't it be better if you make some ventilation halls on top & bottom of the plastic battery body to allow air circulation, or even better add an electronically controlled fan! this should keep the temperature under control & extend the battery life time, nevertheless Good Job, thumbs up.
I have so many questions in my head. First of all thank you for the video! 1) Can this really replace a lead acid battery in any car? 2) Could the battery handle heat, temperatures like the lead-acid battery would do? 3) What happens when the alternator's output voltage moves up & down? 4) How can it handle the ups & downs such as when cranking the engine and what not? 5) What are the actual pros & cons of this battery than having a lead-acid battery? I'm in the brink of kicking this project off, I'm just concerned with question marks in my head!
Could it? Probably yes but would this particular one be cost effective, practical and long lasting more than likely not as much as you are probably hoping or thinking. Even if you took extraordinary and more costly measures to give it the best chance for long term success or had the perfect car in the perfect year round climate I would bet against it. This tech has come a long way but in this particular application IMHO it is probably not quite there yet. There are many other uses where lithium out performs old tech in the long term but I do not see that here yet. That said there is always a cost to good education so if you look at it in that light do not hold back on experimenting and learn things "hands on" because that kind of knowledge has extreme value over your lifetime. That said it would be more cost effective to try one of these www.aliexpress.com/item/4000048426769.html?spm=a2g0o.productlist.0.0.51cd5407uVGzvI&algo_pvid=df879e93-fab8-43ef-a896-5a98e58216b7&algo_expid=df879e93-fab8-43ef-a896-5a98e58216b7-13&btsid=caf40ea1-3d65-4923-a231-df22d6e4d7cb&ws_ab_test=searchweb0_0,searchweb201602_5,searchweb201603_52
I think it can suffer from temperature elevation due to no ventilation in the box. When new no problem but by aging cells may increase their internal resistance and generate more heat. How do you prevent from that?
I am a member of a K9 Search and Rescue team who need several smaller amp hour 12v batteries to power our communication equipment. I was thinking of 4s 2p. I wonder if you might give our Search team some pointers on BMS and charging units for a smaller Ah pack. Our team hikes these batteries and comm gear to mountaintops to extend the range of radios, thus the reason for smaller Ah packs. Great channel and can't wait to see what you're up to next. Any help would be massively appreciated. Dave N2KTO
Hey brotha . Omg this is so incredibly cool. Amazing power and durability. Ideal for what I need. I will dream of this untill I'm dead. I could never afford to build one but this is perfect for my trailer. Your so awesome for sharing the details. It would take me 10 years to buy each part but a guy can dream. Using two old battery's from a diesel truck that my son donated from his job is what I use and omg they are heavy. But they are 4 years old and were treated poorly. When I got them charged fully they were about 12.9 volts. But just don't have the amps in them. This is so hard to charge fast. Takes hours every day to charge with jumper cables and my vehicle. Ahhh . I'm basically homeless as we lost our home . The wife hates it but I'm grateful we have a trailer even though it's old. I'm on disability and dont get squat from social security. This is. Great info. If you ever had and old stuff to donate I'd be the one to help. Anything at this point. I need to use a Bipap machine at night to sleep and it' uses a lot of power with the water chamber on. Without it it's not so bad 6 amps maybe. But the 300 watt inverter just kills the battery before I wake up. I have to hook up a cord to my truck battery when it dies . (usually after 4 hours ) so I get up and do that to get the rest of my sleep. What a bummer it is. Anyways I just love watching your videos. I'm hooked. I've watched them over and over. But darnit I don't have the money to build one. Arrrgggh. I'm dreaming though. So hey great name and great videos. Keep doing what you do. Old People like me just love this info. Jehu Garcia peace my brotha.
For my battery back-up for my house still in Grid , what I see the higher the voltage the less power loses 48v looks like is the lowest power lose ! And you’re video on Lithium Titanate batteries was good heads up Anout 50,000 to 100,000 cycles !
@Alex Fiet I suspect that the BMS can take care of the Alternator current for charging. As for the cold cranking amps. Jehu mentioned that one of these in dead short should do 200Amps, and he's got 8 cells in parallel, from a CCA standpoint you'd be seeing something like 1600A less any inefficiencies and any 'used battery wear'.
U know you can buy laptop batterys on sale. $20 has like 5 or 6 new batterys in it. So u need 2 or 4 laptop pack. Do you own research. Is called google
@@myes344 I know its been a year or more, but you dont even need to google to know laptop batteries don't use these cells. He says it in the video. Go eat an ant hill.
@@iKingRPG I now have 105 ah of headways, got em for $8 a piece from bathookup and the majority test @ 8ah! Its been a fun build but on to the next. Prismatic are my current addiction though the headways are great for 12v high current use.
Your normal 12 volt Battleborn is only 100 ah, the battery that Jehu made is 200 ah -- if I'm not mistaken. So actually the price of $544 includes the BMS and twice the Amps as the Battleborn which is $950 (Amazon) at almost half the price,
Good stuff... is there smaller 12V LiFEP04 batteries you can make? like a in a formfactor of a 12V 7A VSLA? that would be quite a practical portable battery... to be used as UPS replacement or alarm backup batteries
4 of these in series will be 12V 8Ah. They will be significantly smaller than a 12V 7Ah VSLA (about half size), and be able to deliver significantly higher power (2000w vs ~400w?). They will be lighter and more reliable. But it will be more expensive. I would not choose these cells for UPS though, as there are other cells suited for UPS which is high energy/low power.
That looks like exactly the thing I could use to power my travel trailer. (That and a good inverter!) I could see how a bank of these, some solar panels and a big inverter could run a small house pretty handily. If only I could afford to get into building such a system.
Great video and like how you broke every dollar down at the end. I bought 4 headway cells from battery hook up for my integra was going to just use copper bus bars into the screws and hook it up. But I heard the alternator will constantly charge them making for a very short life. So maybe I should look into a bms
@@dannyw7662 Hey thank you. Was just a couple weeks ago I seen a video about a r enology dc to dc. I’ll have too see how they charge up now I have a bmax charger. I’m guessing I still will want a bms on them.? I’d love to use them as a aux battery in the trunk. Wanted to completely replace but would need more cells.
It's a little small for a car battery, I think he said 35-50ah...that's a lawn mower size battery. A car battery is generally 100+ ah. If you wired 4+ in parallel yes, it would work. That's basically what a Tesla car battery is about 1500 or so 18650 batteries wired in parallel.
@@MichaelCook1981 I planned to make my own lithium battery for my Cressida. But the BMS that can handle 70Amp++ is expensive in my place (70A to crank from cold start, inline-6 2.0L engine)
@@jehugarcia I would think it is getting a lot more common.. now that isn't surplus tesla module type pricing (out of wrecked Teslas) -- is a tad high, but a LOT less prone to having things like fires and the like. A much safer chemistry than the regular Lithium cells, which can do miracles of light and sound if the BMS fails... Looks like the LiFEpo was doing very nicely in your testing.... going with 48v would make the current 1/4 to get the same power out... which means less heating and the like.. Just a bit more $
Years ago I wanted to make one of these, went on a newish popular sailing forum to ask for help and ideas. Not only did the community tell me it cannot be done, they were rude about it. Saying I am going to blow myself up and accomplish nothing. Then they banned me (moderator was horrible, maybe he was selling lithium 12 volt at the time and didn't want competition) I am not stupid, nor did I come across that way, oh well, lesson is never listen to nay-sayers. Good video
Contemplated using the headway cells on my electric chopper build. Spacing them around the inner diameter of my rear wheel. But I already had a bunch of 18650’s so I used your 1/8th watt resistor idea and built my own pack. Keep at it man. Chopper build seen here ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-IL0hkSwfTFM.html
I have a LiFePo4 48v 20Ah battery on my 2016 escooter. It's absolutely amazing. I can go 20mile easily on a charge. It's so impressive, that I contacted the person who invented it to thank him. He was awesome, and he also just won a Nobel Prize for all his work with new battery technology. In fact, John Goodenough is currently working on solid state (aka Glass) batteries. He's like 98 years old now, and plugging away like he's 40!
You did a great job on the build and video; however this video demonstrates those headway cells are way to expensive. If you was to use these cells to make a 100AH 12.8v battery it would cost more than the commercialy available Battleborn battery. I have built a few batteries using prismatic cells and 26650's all LiFePO4 and I can build those for far less. For me the whole point of building one is to make one that can handle higher amps and cost less than off the shelf. Having said that he did make an excellent battery pack.
I think you have great videos and I enjoy the information you obtain and share with all of us for free. I'm sure it takes an incredible amount of your time not only coming up with the ideas but to also film and edit so again I want to say Thanks. Now here's my question "I'm curious why you tend to test so many of your builds at the maximum amp output?" maybe I'm missing something but while I understand lithiums are far superior to lead acid when handling high loading, no battery will survive anywhere near its advertised cycle life when used in such a way. I don't know about everyone else but I try to size my battery to have at least 10 times the amphour capacity of my average amps consumed during my peak demand period. So if my load at peak usage is 25 amps per hour I would want at least a 250 ah battery to supply power for my needs. This in my thinking keeps the battery from the stresses of heavy discharge and the resulting high current charging. Curious also as to why you did not use copper for the buss bars and heavier cable for your internal leads to output posts and then for your inverter connections? Those cables should have not shown any thermal rise beyond a few degrees.
You are such a good RU-vidr I totally enjoyed watching your two tubes to explain the difference with a battery but you can start your car versus you're storing energy for something and how they work together and they don't also like to into the contest to get in the giveaway on that battery that you made
plz make a video on 18650 battery pack cooling solution for electric car, here in Pakistan temperature is hot, if car is parked outside, battery pack will get heatup , what could be best cooling solution for custom made 18650 packs, Air or liquid cooled, both ... anyone every tried ?
@@WillProwse hi Will, thanks.. just read it... On second thoughts it's not so great with the lower than expected capacity - would need to do more testing with calibrated and balanced cells. Perhaps these cells are recycled and have lower capacity as a result? That's fine as long as people are informed. So I guess it's more like break-even with commercial batteries until we know more.
Will I think you said the other day that you thought your design with the relay was clumsy but I really think that is a great design if you want protection without the expense of a major name BMS or the ,imitations of these Chinese units.
5:00 You could use plastic "bridges" to connect the left and right half battery packs to the main center block. Plastic will isolate and will keep the wobbling sides stable and on distance. You can drill holes to the bridges and directly use the screws of the batteries to mount them.
@@avid0g Yes, you can replace "plastic" with any non conductive material there. Personally I would go for fiberglass too. I said plastic to make sure that he gets the idea.
Check out Will Prowse's channel. he goes over a lot of basics about working with this battery technology with a lot of great products and real world applications that you'll be able to relate to
I wouldn't recommend buying these seconds 38120' batteries. Why! I bought 8 units from Battery hookup @ AU$189.23 (8XAU$ 23.65ea) includes DHL transport The batteries are very old, manufactured 2016 or 2017. Nothing in web ad that mentions cell AGE & insulation damage. Have one dud battery that's under spec @ 3.14v Clearly shows overheating or cooked damage history @ + end. Not like the others. The rest are either 3.288v or 3.4v with surface insulation damage. As price comparison, I've since discovered, from China, GEB brand NEW GEB 38120 @ US$12.92PCS + transport for the 38120 battery.
Yep battery hookups is overpriced. The battery he builds in this video would be around the $400 range once you add hardware, box, bms and cells. Definitely not worth the 35AH rating.
I was really contemplating purchasing these cells from Battery hookup until I read your post. Getting duds is what I am afraid because they are used, even though their description says all tested something like 95% and up. I was going to make a 4S10P pack, so 40 cells. Now I don't think I will be ordering any.
Next time cut out a thin plate of plexi glas and then mount the plexiglas with the battery screws ontop of the metal plates, that way the distance is provided and it even looks cool👍🏻
That's where I started. They are just OK,so far. I'm very glad that I didn't start with flooded ones!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I would have blown up my shed by now. Those batteries are not good for anything that moves at all. My AGM ones are way safer,but not as good as the ones that are the...best. Lithium or the ...other ones. I'm too tired to look it up,now. LI FE So 4's?
As some others have said finally a video of the 12v lithium, so thank you. Im actually in the process of buiding my own as well. If the headway 38120hp cells ever get here from china that is. Since i never could figure out what to do with a bms i was actually going to go with out one and just pay attention to levels with a voltage logger. I say i cant figure out what to do with the bms because i dont care so much about the longevity of the battery but more power. If the cells are capable of even 60amp output per times 8 in my case i want 480 amps of output. All the bms i found are at the 100amp range until you shown this one which is at 200amp. So maybe there is hope if i had that many cells then i could run 4 of those bms. Im into car audio and i want to run as little battery as possible. Also considering a set of 6 2.7v 3000f ultra caps to add to the mix. Now before all the haters comment, yes you could go and get 2 or 3 agm batteries for the same cost and then probably be done with it. And yes your right you could do that but me personally im into the new stuff and lithium is the future. So i would like your thoughts on running without the bms.
I think in the near future lithium batteries will become obsolete. They will be replaced with graphene batteries which are lighter and more dense with power. Care to comment?
