As a semi-newbie I totally understand what you were explaining. I'm a small frame woman with little hands. Recently picked up a Sig P320 4.7" w/ tungsten grip module...I love it mostly due to heavier weight. Will definitely look into the different springs & guide rods you mentioned.
Love the video, I'm watching your other Glock content now. You should make a video with different springs (trigger, striker, recoil, & safety plunger) and connector feels. Or maybe talk about what you run. I'm currently building a G34 Gen 3 for Carry Ops.
@poqwrstler Weighted magwell w/brass insert. Weighted 2rd mag increase base. Store brought loads offer extremely lite recoil. Maybe 8yrs with this setup with well broken in stock trigger. I'm guessing over 6k rds.
Excellent, thought provoking video. Watched this for the second time after a year and recently switching platforms. Hard to measure much of this stuff precisely but the set of questions you raised make this, in my mind, one of your best videos. The value of having a balanced pistol as opposed to just heavy is interesting. Makes me wonder about a shorter barreled pistol, keeping weight closer to center. With an optic, the long barrel isn't necessary for aiming and the muzzle diving effect from the long barrel that I experience is reduced. All as you suggested with the Walther steel frame in 4" vs 5" barrels.
Great video, thank you for the effort. I replaced the brass grip weight in my X5 Legion with a Tungsten one and the OEM guide rod with a tungsten one and it definitely feels heavier but I haven't noticed any difference in recoil but I'm going to pay more attention to the transitions and see if makes any difference there. Thanks for the info!
It would be interesting to test in another video the effect of weapon lights on recoil. A WML is basically a 4-5oz frame weight that also works as a flashlight, but it would be cool to have actual data on what effect it actually has.
@@watchmyshoes22 Yes, recoil will be reduced, but the question is to what extent is recoil reduced, and how does that compare to other recoil reduction modifications?
Excellent analysis. I found when I started shooting I preferred my shadow 2,but as I've improved I find myself faster with my P10c. I love the dpm recoil system which I do have in my P10c, it might just be all the upgrades... :p
Did a similar experiment with an M&P. Not by changing any parts in the gun, but by wearing ballast on my hands. My hit factors on a variety of stages were much better with 1 lb added to the weight of my hands using backhand gloves than using the same gun without them.
Nice job. Great analysis with non-biased data presentation. If only everyone would let the data speak. I like how you clearly differentiate what you are “feeling” during the shooting cycle from the recoil data and how the shots landed. All important items. But a big difference. Just fyi, drive the gun up to your sight line earlier during presentation and push away. You have at least .2 sec to shave off breaking the shot by reducing the fishing time for sight picture. Offered with complete humility and respect. Thanks for all that you offer on here.
stay tuned - I'm revisiting this on the Canik Rival-S and the Sig Sauer P365 AXG Legion with my fancy slow motion camera. Seeing how balance and overall weight affect how the gun moves in recoil.
I change my recoil springs in my G17, G21 and g25 by dpm system to reduce recoil, install olight (g21 and g25) and surefire (g17) laser/flashlight to increase weight.
I've kept my G34 stock internally. Adding weight might help shave a few hundredths here and there, but frankly I have much bigger issues to deal with, and I'd rather focus on practice rather than modding.
For USPSA, I use a very similar setup to you. Gen5 34, pure tungsten guide rod w/ 15lb spring, TF brass baspad, but I use tungsten putty pushed into the backstrap, and use a modified plastic grip plug so I can shape it like a ramp. It's gotta be a fraction of an ounce within the weight of yours, and I've settled on it as the best for me too.
I’m currently running the extended tungsten guide rod and rather than the thug plug I filled my grip cavity with a mix of tungsten shot and tungsten putty- gets me a tiny bit more weight than the thug plug. I think it’s the perfect balance between “heavy enough to noticeably absorb recoil” and “light enough to transition quickly.”
TheHumbleMarksman ehh. The stuff is definitely pretty sticky, but a few minutes with a scraper and I could get it all back out. I seal it in with a plastic grip plug, rather than epoxy which other people have done.
I use a Seattle Slug and a Jentra Ultra Heavy Tungsten GR. The jentra is the largest diameter tungsten rod Ive found as it uses round springs instead of flat springs. Unfortunately Jentra and Seattle slug only fits gen1/2/3.
on a G34 - the Pure Tungsten from GlockStore - the extended one is hands down the heaviest. I believe the diameters of the GlockStore and the Jentra units are similar.
I think adding a weapon light would put the additional weight in the best possible position as it would be directly under the barrel or close to it and could help reduce muzzle flip. Although I don't know if it could still be used in competition (even if it had dead or no batteries).
Question for ya, what's your build? I'm 6'0" and build broad and muscular, and I find that I prefer the heavier pistols. Also, my hands have a minor tremor so a heavier pistol dampens that.
James ES44AC -2 There are people I know with Glocks who use lights but fill the battery compartment with Tungsten for use in Limited, especially because holster availability is much better than with some of the frame weights out there.
Good stuff, I'm running my first ever USPSA event tomorrow. I'm doing Production class with my Canik TP9SF Elite. Probably not the best gun to use for this, but its the gun I have. So I have done some mods that I can do to the gun for that class in an effort to manage the recoil. TF Brass mag extensions, Springco RMS and 29 newton striker spring, and an aftermarket threaded barrel. The gun is heavier than stock, but not nearly as heavy as you made yours. The brass backstrap is not allowed in Production and there is not plug for Canik guns unlike the Glocks. And to be honest, I'm not entirely sure the barrel is legit for the rules, but I can change that out in a snap. With each mod I feel like the gun has become a lot more manageable and easier to control. I also did a lot of stippling to the grip. The Canik is just hard to hold onto when your hands get sweaty. That's fixed. It's locked done now. Anyhow, good video! Thanks!
I have a Glock 17 and on it I have a mini compensator and a Surefire X300. The recoil on it feels pretty nice but I was wondering if I get the pure tungsten rods would I notice anything with all the add ons I already have?
Raising good questions. Tough data points to measure and collect. Subjective viewpoints may be as good as it gets. Once built a 1911 in 45acp with 6" slide and barrel. Didn't feel fast as transitions felt slow but did feel like recoil was dampened. Don't think my overall performance was better or worse when contrasted with a 5" pistol but the 6" pistol felt like I was shooting a truck transmission.
I'm convinced that the center of balance affects how a gun swings more - the really nose heavy guns that are longer - it's more pronounced - but balanced guns that are longer still seem to swing easy - at least for me.
I’ve got two guns, a glock 45 and a Arex Rex Alpha.. the Alpha has twice the mass and it’s great to shoot.. but it’s also not a fair comparison. I also use the dpm system in my Rex.
TheHumbleMarksman I’m sure that enough , train like a navy seal lol ,32kg 70.6 lbs . As we age muscle mass and tone is hard to maintain. Eating right is also key . K
@@TheHumbleMarksman It's not expensive on Amazon at $7/oz. I was only able to fit ~1.5 oz with Thug Plug. I was worried it'd be messier, but it wasn't a pain at all. Side note: did you make Master in CO? I finally did as of the update tomorrow... assuming my math checks out.
Great vid! I’ve been wondering if changing the tac grip on my aluminum frame staccato p to a heavier metal grip would help muzzle climb and recoil? Also if losing the polymer flex would make it not worth it? What would your opinion be?
I have a Glock 17 with L2D combat barrel and a stainless steel guide rod with factory sprig weight. I have a tlr1 on it. Would you recommend for competition using light? No light? Or investing in a heavy tungsten guide rod? I only want to buy one holster and not sure if I should go light or no light for USPSA. Thank you for your time and consideration.
I would love to - Walther doesn’t seem to want to play ball on T&E with a small channel and that’s about $2k in pistols I am not super interested in owning!
The Taylor Freelance Seattle slug is a good option but not legal in production. I have a tungsten guide rod and the Thug Plug I’m my 34. Now I’m shooting limited and really liking the 2011 over a glock.
TheHumbleMarksman I have a 35 and was very tempted to try it but I had a good year in 2019 and sprang for the 2011. I still have the 35. It’s was an new old stock model with that frying pan finish. I can’t bring myself to sell
TheHumbleMarksman you can change the screw that holds your thug plug to one with a bigger head to keep the bottom of the backstrap solid, just did it on mine
That was a major concern for me too, I got around it by using a Gen 4 19 plug in my Gen 3 17, which is slightly undersized. I didn't know it would work when I tried it but I'm glad it did!
Would be interesting to see you test how heavy is too heavy? It seems like many new 2011’s and others are 45+ ounces. At what gun weight do you start seeing less benefits or diminishing returns and how heavy is too heavy?
up around 60 ounces the guns are pretty heavy - it's going to come down to what you like - I am a big do - I can be a bit more aggressive with a heavier gun without as much over registration issues. lighter guns are twitchier for me to slow down.
I am not sure that I will- the CZC A01 is a bit bigger so I would probably do that if anything - but I would probably do a Legion before either simply because of maintenance being easier and I am lazy
I've been shooting my 3 x5's then added the tungsten stuff. Went from 34 oz to 44 oz. My follow up shots are better heavy. Would love to try my x5's with about 55-58 oz but the weight toward the front of the gun. I might get a light, fill with lead, mount and see what that feels like. FYI that is not carry optics legal. Thanks for another great vid!
Is the thug plug legal for production? I think it was at one time illegal, but you could file it so it doesn’t protrude beyond mag well and it would therefore be legal. Is this true? I’m a new subscriber and your content is extremely helpful, thanks.
The Seattle slug isn’t for how it extends past - but the thug plug ... might be? I thought it was so I re-read the rules - you get .1” from the heel of the grip- but where is that measured from? It is .05” too long if measured directly from the back but if you measure from the side of the heel - it’s legal. We’ll see what Troy says.
I wonder if the results would be different with a less experienced shooter. You shoot way above average and can probably shoot almost any gun very good regardless of all the mods done to it
Absolutely! As an inexperienced shooter it’s incredibly difficult for me to shoot a lightweight Glock. And I mean INCREDIBLY difficult as in grouping is non existent however while shooting a better gun like a sig I have good groups.
Can you add a light? I don't know anything about USPSA rules. A TLR-1 would add 4.25 oz to the front including batteries. My stock 19 is a bit nicer to shoot with a light out front.
Silverscooby27 Funny, I was actually thinking that or even just some lead shot would add a lot more weight. When shooting the 19 the light was in there due to wanting a light, so I would prefer to keep it functional. I am curious to try this though.
Have you seen any point of diminishing returns? I have a SS guide rod for my 34 and I'm going to pack my grip with tungsten rods, disks and putty and then epoxy in. I'm thinking I can get 5-7 oz into the grip which is a lot more than those plugs and wondering if it's almost too much.
A natural lead into when are you going to give one of the new OR S2's a fair shake? I've been temped to buy one (I want to own at least one steel frame gun) but am having a hard time justifying it, especially since I'm really liking the low maintenance Glock platforms.
It'd be unlikely - it'd need to be donated for T&E and I'm not cool enough to get CZUSA attention - or someone who's got like 3 and won't miss one for a month-6 weeks.
Considering adding a plug and light to my 23 to see if the added weight will help with recoil dampening and accuracy. In your opinion, would those two add-ons help?
Depends on the gun- if it changes slide weight - which it does on the 34- the 34 has a slower recoil impulse than a 17 - I prefer the 17 to it now but at the time liked the 34
@@TheHumbleMarksman Ok and what about the G45/G19X. This must have an even faster recoil. What about control? Some say you have better recoil control with the longer slides.
I bought my first Glock, a 43x, to use as edc with the S15 mags. It shoots pretty good. But just for fun, I want to do some reasonable upgrades. I want to add weight. I ordered a steel guide rod( I heard the tungsten ones have a more limited lifespan). Being an edc, I don't want anything extending below the grip. Does anyone ever coat the inside(or outside) of the frame with anything to increase weight? Maybe some kind of tape or paint? Are there other ways to add weight to the rear?
pack tungsten putty into the cavity at the back of the grip. FYI I have a far higher round count on tungsten guide rods than most commenting on that - there's nothing wrong with them.
I love the science. Thank you for taking the time to do this... makes me curious about the X5 vs X5 Legion now..... although I ordered the legion anyway. Lol. Should have it Monday or Tuesday.
@@TheHumbleMarksman agreed. Specially since I now have it in my possession. Lots of dry firing to ensue to prepare for my first match next month. Romeo 1 Pro mounted too.
Glocks haven’t pissed me off enough yet to make a change - I would get a legion if I started now. It’s not that much nicer in my hands - a little less punishing but performance is similar to glocks
@@TheHumbleMarksman Well no doubt that reciprocal mass plays a roll in recoil. I have thought about a super-heavy guide rod in my wife's Glocks because range ammo can result in stovepipes for her at times.
I love how all the Glock fans show you how great their gun is, after they change just about everything on it. What they show you is a gun that is nothing like what came from the factory. Sights gone, trigger gone, modify the grips yep, change the barrel yep, stock mags no way, guide rod gone, springs all changed, port the slide yep, mill the slide for red dot, now its add weight..
@@TheHumbleMarksman Oh come on man this was not directed solely at you, its impossible to find a straight head to head review as they come from the factory. Yes I am a CZ fan :) lol my Shadow 2 OR now has a Magwell, a flat trigger with a short reach disconnect, Trijicon SRO and as of today a Eemann tech Thumb rest. Just love this gun.
Haha that’s so true! It entirely defeats the point of buying something only to completely replace every aspect of it. Don’t feel bad I’m not sure why he felt the need to lash out and insult you for an honest and logical opinion and even proceeded to ignore your attempt to reconcile that was super immature.
