And the theists name John does come along. “You do believe in god and I just know”, John blindly asserts. After a briefly chuckle and one swing of his almighty logic, Father Matt dispenses of the cowardly John. Back to the echo chamber, cretinous theist.
John: Your favorite color is blue. Me: No its not. John: Yes it is. Me: I like red. John:, No, you like blue, because my book says so. Me: Your book is wrong because I like red. John: YOU LIKE BLUE! ........
Tinrib it’s incredibly patronizing when theists tell you what YOU believe and they know it while you don’t know how you actually feel or what you actually believe. It’s conceited, self aggrandizing and incredibly dishonest.
Mark Hepworth. . 8 months ago. . How does America function in the modern world with so many of these people living there.... 4 replies. 31 likes. American is drifting away from God and thus is planting seeds of it's own destruction
@@nosfrattirek5690 Or 'epistemologically circular.' Which is semi-valid. By definition, we can't justify our fundamental suppositions. But there are problems with trying to presuppose god, and especially to presuppose a particular god. It doesn't simplify our axiom set, and it doesn't make our knowledge anymore certain, ultimately, since you're just replacing our current suppositions with new ones.
They don't even realize Intelligent Design is a chicken and egg argument because if humans are intelligent design, then God must be intelligent design by higher power. Then it all about intelligent design to higher and higher and higher power until what? Who create the highest power above God? Then religious said, everything is intelligent design except God whereas just not long ago they said everything is created by intelligent design, that must also mean including theirs God.
@@justinhansen8137 How about this? Adam and Eve have no concept of right and wrong, good or evil or punishment and reward. They are babies without anyone to teach them or learn from. All they did was talk to animals and play around. Yet a "just" God punish them for something they clearly not understand. I often use this and the one earlier to most argument, yet religious always try to bend way to excuse. Adam and Eve are like CaveMen and they use modern's day logic to argue, laughable at best.
@@justinhansen8137 I understand what you said, I argued with few others and finally they said "God can kill anyone because God created everything". At that point, I realize it is pointless to argue any further since God is "Morally Right" despite willing to kill BILLIONS of people. I'll just continue to use these 2 points. But yeah, from all the youtube video. Yours point also work as well, but when point out their immorality and things in Bible, then heard them say "God can destroy the whole world, kill BILLIONS", I just mute them or call them MONSTERS worship greater MONSTER, then mute. That's all I could do since they already succumb to the point, that they would throw all theirs humanity and morality just to protect theirs belief and faith...
+pathstogodbyfaithcom "I can prove my God exist [sic] and the foolishness of atheism." Cool! Please lay it out for us. If you have an actual solid and convincing case then I will convert right now. I'd appreciate it very much if you're able to convert me -- I don't want to be burned alive for eternity which is what your loving god will do to me if he actually exists, so if he does exist then I'd like to know that so that I can offer up the appropriate amount of praise so as to end up in the clouds with a harp instead of in a lake of fire.
Imagine if that's how medicine worked. Presup doctor: I've cured cancer. Medical Board: Holy shit, how?! Presup doctor: Well, if the word "cure" has a letter c and "cancer" does too, then that means that cancer could not logically exist anymore.
Atheists offer no hope. God/Jesus offers Eternal life. I'll take God's/Jesus' offer. So grateful for God's love. To offer a sinner like me the free gift of eternal life.
Thank you for sharing your thoughts. As a person who rejects the Bible, what is ‘incoherent’? That is, for something to be illogical, don’t you have to point to laws of logic that supersede human opinion? How do you account for these laws? Are they determined by society? Yet, sometimes entire societies reject rational thought. So, without God, how can you say that anything is ‘incoherent’? The same holds true for morality. With atheism, you have no basis to treat people differently than other life forms. Atheism is amoral. You cannot say that I did not warn you! You will give an account for every lie, every theft, every treason against everything good and noble. Christ died so that you may know the goodness of God. Jesus Christ is the light of the world.
@@kenshiloh And when I ask them, Christians, where their values come from, they say they come from God. I ask, Where did your ideas of God come from? They say, From the Bible. Where did the Bible come from? From God, they say. Who said it came from God? The Bible says it came from God. Which author specifically said it came from God? Paul. How did Paul know? God revealed it to him. How did Paul know God revealed it to him? Revelation. Is revelation subjective or objective? Objective. In your view, what's the difference between objective and subjective. Objective is what's in the Bible; subjective is just what people think without evidence. Did Paul have objective evidence for his revelation that what he said was revelation? Yes, the Bible is the objective evidence. In what sense is the Bible objective evidence? The prophecies cam true. Which prophecies? That Jesus would ride a donkey. Who said Jesus would ride a donkey? One of the prophets. Did the prophet say, A messiah named Jesus will ride a donkey into Jerusalem and he will be killed there and rise on the third day and ascend into heaven. Yes, one of the prophets said that. Show me. It doesn't say that. It doesn't say that exactly, but the Spirit revealed it's meaning. Who said the spirit revealed that? Paul. How did Paul know? God revealed it to him. Did he reveal it to him subjectively or objectively? Objectively. How? Through the Spirit. The Spirit is objective or subjective? Objective. How so? Because it only reveals what is true. How did Paul know it was the Spirit? Because he experienced it. How did he know it was the Spirit he was experiencing? God revealed it to him. How did he know it was God revealing it to him? He knew it through revelation. You mean he knew it in his heart, mind, and soul? Yes. He knew that he knew? Yes. He didn't know it through the wisdom of this world? Correct. He didn't discover it through science, math, experimentation, or observation of the physical world? No, God revealed it to him through his spirit. So it wasn't objective in any material sense, but spiritual, to his mind's eye? Yes. So it wasn't objective, but spiritual? Yes, spiritual. He knew it in his heart, without reference to anything but God? Yes, God showed it to him. God showed him something physical? No, he showed him something spiritual. So God didn't show him a physical object? No, it was a spiritual truth. So it was spiritual, not objective? It wasn't an object, no. It was a spiritual truth he saw in his soul. So as one subject to another, God to Paul, God revealed through the Spirit? Yes, it was spiritual. God to Paul, without physical mediation? Yes, only through the Spirit. And the Spirit isn't an object you can see, hear, taste, touch,or smell? Not usually; you can feel him in your heart, though, and he can make you feel God's presence. But not smell, taste, touch, hear, or see God? Not physically, but spiritually. So as a subject you feel with your spirit but not an object your physical senses detect, apart from your subjective emotions, thought and spiritual feelings? Correct. Thank you. You realize that's subjective, right?
@@kenshiloh You can be a Hitler, or shoot up a mall, or be a fundraiser for the Democratic or Republican parties, or a rapist of children, or push Grandma down the stairs for her social security money, but if you regret it and surrender on your deathbed, according to Christianity you still go to heaven. But if you collect clothes for the poor, help out everybody in the neighborhood, coach little league, and fill sandbags at floodtime and distribute water bottles after earthquakes, but keep saying “Ya know, those still sound like crazy stories to me” right up until you die, you go to hell. Does that sound moral to you? Also, what practical moral act can a Christian do that an atheist cannot?....> Also Atheism is just thhe disbelief in gods....That's all... Reply
@@stonemaze9925 Not quite. God is objectively real. Conversely, do you claim that spiritual realities are not real? For example, do you believe in love or justice? Moreover, are you saying that you are just a bag of chemicals, fizzing away? You have no free will? I do not believe the Bible because of the Bible, but because of the Holy Spirit. I was raised by an atheist, hearing the gospel for the first time at the age of 17. The about he Holy Spirit bore witness that Christ died on a Cross for me. I believe the Bible because the Holy Spirit bears witness that it is true. In fact, the Christian faith is all about knowing God. He is objectively there. He will objectively judge you for ever lie, every theft, and every treason. Christ objectively died on on a Cross so that, if you will ask, you may know Him. Either that or objectively suffer in hell for all eternity. I hope that you will make peace with God. Jesus Christ is the light of the world.
@David Cowan Hah! Just the sort of response you'd expect from someone making extraordinary claims without evidence who is simply asked: "What Reasoning gets you to your assertions?" The response to such a simple question is always deflection and projection.....but NEVER an equally simple answer.....which invariably is: "I have not used Reasoning to get to my assertion."
@David Cowan my atheism has nothing to do with science. It is predicated on the fact that theists haven't presented any evidence to support their god claim.
@David Cowan because believing something without evidence is gullibility, which is more weak minded than using reason and logic based on facts about reality. You can cling to your fairy tales all you want, while i stick to what is actually real.
This guy comes straight out of Gary Milne's (Darth Dawkins, EF, evolution falls) presup circlejerk discord room. Glaring example of Dunning-Kruger arrogance mixed with nearly no self-awareness.
@David Cowan Dave, you sound like an idiot. Atheists get upset when we hear about our elected officials making their decisions based on their asinine religious beliefs. We also get upset when we find out that christians want to teach creationism in school, because evolution is "just a theory"! We are not wasting our time Dave because you know what? The atheist population is growing and growing! You know why? Because we are right, and not everybody has their head up their ass like you.
The arrogance of these callers is abysmal. To think that they are true, with a mountain of conflicting evidence against them both from the existence of other religions and other beliefs and the contradictions in the Bible itself.
I've been watching this show for YEARS and I am yet to see a theist actually make any sense and not get made to look like a fool! Why do they call in! lol
@Bob Smith You try talking to numb skulls year after year who are trying to prove that a God exists! Ignorant religious people pushing their idiotic 'beliefs' down the throat of society! I do agree with your comment about why people bother debating Mat and the team. I mean, how does one enter a debate with zero evidence to support their claims????? lol
Atheists offer no hope. God/Jesus offers Eternal life. I'll take God's/Jesus' offer. So grateful for God's love. To offer a sinner like me the free gift of eternal life.
If that pantheon were genuine and they had an honest offer for mankind, they should send a message that is unmistakably divine in origin and present an offer or miracle that reasonably makes sense. But they don't.
@@balrozgul705 That genuine, honest offer lived on this earth and was nailed to a Roman cross, shed his blood as a sacrifice for the forgiveness of sins. He (Jesus Christ) was buried and three days later walked out of the grave alive (death could not hold him down). Most people rejected his offer then and most people reject his offer now. The greatest gift ever offered to mankind. The gift of eternal life (to know God/Jesus Christ - the creator of all things). No religion needed. Just faith (believing the gospel of Grace). Faith plus nothing.
"There's an orange in that box". How do I know there's an orange in there? You said I can't question it's in there... "Well, you can't have a box, without an orange."
The theist says, "There's a unicorn in the parking lot". The atheist responds, "I don't believe you... show me" The theist says, "You can't even be 100% sure there even is a carpark". The atheist responds, "What the hell are you talking about?". The theist says, "Why are you atheists always so angry?. Repeat.
@@rapidriver7504 your God would know what evidence we need since he is all knowing. Nothing has happened. Either he isn't real or doesn't want me to know he exists.
I know nothing about God, the actual God. I've been told about God and I've read about God, but I'm none the wiser. God is not available for inspection, so I have no way of checking what I've learned. I have the same problem with fairies. I cannot talk to Tinkerbell.
@Ian Reyn When God revealed his backside to Moses, how did Moses know it was the actual God ? Did he have any distinguishing marks ? Could it have been an imposter ? (Exodus 33:23)
Atheists offer no hope. God/Jesus offers Eternal life. I'll take God's/Jesus' offer. So grateful for God's love. To offer a sinner like me the free gift of eternal life.
@@paulgemme6056 No, you're just deluded. I'm sorry to say that, because it means that you have even more work to do than if you'd simply been ignorant, starting from scratch as we all must do at first. But, alas, you've gone off and invested in delusion. Now, like a gambling addict, you think that you can't afford to give it all up and start over.
@@paulgemme6056 Do you usually waste your time, consuming things that you don't enjoy? You should call in and get your ass handed to you like this oblivious caller did. What a weak jewish fairy tale... Oh, well. Thanks for the view and feedback. Makes logic more relevant. We'll be *thinking* for you. Ta-ta.
@paul gemme Your making a feelgood argument. The flying unicorn from Andromada offered me infinite life as well as a cookie, so using your logic, I'm a unicornian.
@@paulgemme6056 if all god is for you is a device to make you feel warm and fuzzy about a scary thing like death, that’s pretty weak and your god (if it were true) knows that.
I was a theist until I was about 30 (I'm 33 now). Why? Because I hadn't heard any debates or arguments about the existence of a god. When I discovered secular arguments against gods, I immediately started down the path to atheism. I just can't understand how some people can reject a logical argument & stick with what has already been debunked & refuted. It doesn't make sense. You just learned that your reasoning is flawed. Why the hell would you continue to use that reasoning? In other words, I don't know how it's possible for the believers who call in to this show, to remain believers.
@Dan Ryan thank you so much for sharing that with me. I get it now it's like this you're heading for Hell without Jesus as your Saviour! There how's that? Hahaha dude you think I'm worried about grammar, misspellings, or even correct punctuation? Not! Hahaha its called communication you know exactly what I meant and it's no worse than lol, BTW, etc. You want correctness try this : his name is Jesus and he is the only way. So tank u fur da cumplaminnt I sho do preshate iyut partnah.
@Dan Ryan you just don't get it do you? Its not a competition its your life! Fella your not alive because you're this or that you're alive because God is long-suffering and that's the only reason. I hope and pray that one day you give your life to Jesus and I see you in Heaven.
I wish people would stop being so afraid to die and be more courageous to live. (Without the crutch of an imaginary man in the sky that they think helps them).
@@1ofhis518 I'm finished discussing this with you if all you're gonna do is push your god nonsense without addressing what I'm talking about and call me a liar. I told you that I do not fear death. I fear pain and suffering while I'm alive. And I'm just as moral as any other person on the planet. No god required. Go troll somewhere else.
@@1ofhis518 Deuteronomy 25:11-1, You can kill a woman if she seizes a man't private parts without permission. "If two men are fighting and the wife of one of the them to rescue her husband from his assailnant, and she reaches out and seizes him by his private parts, you shall cut off her hand. Show her no pity." THIS IS A WEIRD GOD YOU BELIEVE IN.
@@1ofhis518 Here you are, BAC soldier, mouthing the god-words and expecting...what? That rational and intelligent people who were not raised with some god story beaten into them on momma's knee are going to hear your words and "see the light" about your god (whichever one that might be)? You know a better way to spend your time? Find some evidence of your god, because if you did that, you'd convert every atheist under the sun.
ED 209 being a believer doesn't come from a book. being a believer comes from Jesus Christ changing you from within. faith comes by hearing, and hearing of the word of God,. whether you hear someone read the word out loud or you read the word out loud to yourself.
@@rapidriver7504 You can swap out "Jesus Christ" with literally anything else like a theological Mad Lib and it would make just as much or as little sense. Being a believer comes from Allah changing you from within. Being a believer comes from the spirit of Vishnu changing you from within. Being a believer comes from Zarathustra changing you from within. Being a believer comes from my pet goldfish changing you from within.
Rapid River you don’t yet Beerus into your life but you know in your heart that Beerus is real. And you are just denying your true feelings about Beerus Want to continue this game
I truly admire the patience and restraint those two are showing, but I think that Matt should have adopted the "You're DONE!" method in this one too and especially right after the caller answered with "The BuyBull, that is where from I get my FACTS " lol BTW; Mozlims believe that everyone is born a Muslim then gets demographically converted.
I have a B.A. in Philosophy and I can honestly say, this is one of the greatest shows/forums of philosophical and religious debate in human history! 👍😀🙏
Matt, I’ll tell you this: Your job is truly a hard one. And...once again, I now, by watching your show understand once again, that there can be no harder job than dealing with pure ignorance. And this is exactly what you’ve been doing.
Wilful ignorance at that. But it's great that Matt can call it out,.and perhaps even see into the human quality of this psychological distortion. I found this caller to be exceptionally distorted in his thinking. Despite his evident intelligence, he could not allow himself to see that he was working from completely fabricated, artificial, premises. I could likewise assert that π is the integer 3, and that everybody knows this, and that these are simply brute facts. But doubling down on those assertions doesn't make them any more correct. It doesn't even make them potential candidates for correctness. Not being able to see this is a terrible distortion. It's tragic, really: a life wasted in service of avoiding the simple investigation of truth. I don't expect Matt or any other host to judge the moment perfectly, but here I think that he may well have been right in cutting off the caller at the moment of his circular argument. It could have planted the important though uncomfortable thought: what if I'm wrong? What if I've built a house of cards? How do I determine what is and isn't true? Because that was the subject of the call, after all, it's just that the caller hadn't ever really thought about his own epistemology. Matt has. Why? Because he was once as deluded as the caller, and for equally bad reasons. Yet it is possible to think oneself out of this particular delusion. Mostly it just takes honesty, and a certain amount of courage, to keep asking questions until the pieces come together.
Atheists offer no hope. God/Jesus offers Eternal life. I'll take God's/Jesus' offer. So grateful for God's love. To offer a sinner like me the free gift of eternal life.
@@paulgemme6056 Atheists have HOPE that one day we can create a beautiful world where ALL, that's right, EVERY SINGLE FUCKING PERSON are able to live as they are and be happy. Where no one has privilege over another because of something as arbitrary and trivial as color, age, race, genitals, etc. We place our trust in people, because they're ACTUALLY EXISTANT and their trustworthiness can be estimated, unlike your god who can't answer prayers at a better rate than pure dumb fucking luck. You seem nice enough, even if preachy and condescending. There is still hope for you too. Let go of your hateful ways, your "sin" as you call it, and accept that no one is perfect... AND THATS OKAY! I don't need a holy blood bath to forgive me for my wrong doing; I apologize to those I've wronged and can either be forgiven or not. It's not necessary to go around calling yourself a sinner, or worse, others. This world is a complex one. Why break it down to an oversimplified digestibly boring fairytale?
This is what happens when one posts a comment, but can't spell, forgetting grammar that was once known and doesn't proof what was typed. Sorry about that.
This is my favorite Matt Dillahunty clip. Christianity (along with other religions), tries to put people on the defensive by saying that something is wrong with us from a devine perspective. I had never thought of it as a defense mechanism before. This whole video is a good watch, but jumping to 10:43 is the start to of the rebuttal.
@Chris Stols with respect, I highly suspect, and I would bet a trillion dollars, that the personal relationship proposed by some Christians, is actually a relationship with themselves. And the afterlife is wishful thinking.
Atheists offer no hope. God/Jesus offers Eternal life. I'll take God's/Jesus' offer. So grateful for God's love. To offer a sinner like me the free gift of eternal life.
Atheists offer no hope. God/Jesus offers Eternal life. I'll take God's/Jesus' offer. So grateful for God's love. To offer a sinner like me the free gift of eternal life.
I use the garage fire analogy. Is it possible a fire is starting in your garage? Yes. Would a fire in your garage be something you need to know? Yes. So why aren't you in your garage looking for a fire? Because there is no evidence my garage is on fire. Atheists are not claiming your garage is or is not on fire. There is no reason to check your garage for fires unless there is evidence it is.
ah, but Garbage, or any fire created in a case of compacted c and endothermic( I think that's the correct term here) materials, like a trash fire,can be at work, but not apparent. That's how we go from high temps and pressures to actual fire, without it being noticed....better is a forest fire lit by lightning, or by solar focus or off a muffler....all cases where there is no flame until ignition. And they are almost always accompanied by noticeable signs of it Sorry, I live in a fire prone state, and Dad worked for the fire dept....
@@barkYdarkATFB Atheists offer no hope. God/Jesus offers Eternal life. I'll take God's/Jesus' offer. So grateful for God's love. To offer a sinner like me the free gift of eternal life.
@@paulgemme6056 atheists have hope of many things. Telling you that you’re worthless, and telling you there’s only one way out of that worthlessness is not one of them. That’s religion’s MO. Edit: more specifically, that’s christianity’s MO. 🙄
John more than likely went ti a public school, learnt current science, including evolution ...did it make one bit of difference. And it could be Cine, or sjbus problems or a cold. Can you tell the difference over the phone? Do you even know first hand what a person who snorts coke, or meth, or any kind of drug 'sounds' like?Cuz I have first hand direct experience here, but could not be sure just by the sounds.....
Oh boy. I feel sorry for the guy. It's not a matter of whether I believe in a god or not, just that he seems to be incapable of thinking rationally and logically, which has brought us to this point.
Atheists offer no hope. God/Jesus offers Eternal life. I'll take God's/Jesus' offer. So grateful for God's love. To offer a sinner like me the free gift of eternal life.
Ahhh, the good ol' days when Matt had patience for bullshit. So glad we don't have to endure this neverending twaddle anymore. Except on talk heathen. But thankfully, jumping ahead is still available.
Don actually made a good point about Matt's "that which is asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence" ... Snotty caller: "What is the proof of that?" Don: "we're not going to waste our time, that is the evidence." -He's right. They can simply say he's talking rubbish and hang up on him. That proves what Matt said :)
So fucking frustrating that people say stuff like "You believe in god, you're self deceived". As an ex-christian, I spent so many nights crying, asking gold to help me believe, asking him to forgive me for my doubt, asking for more "faith" and finally gave up when none of it made sense any more. I bet most of the people here went through something very similar.
It stuns me that people just don't seem to grasp the logic presented by Matt and Don. I mean... Okay. Sometimes thinking is *hard*. >; ) (But FFS - At least give it a TRY!)
Gentle =/= Condescending Condescending is also a poor starting point if you think that logic isn't the proper basis for such examinations (or conversations around such). I'm sure you think you're being gentle. But, as with pigeons and chess, all that comes off like is strutting around, crapping on the board, and still believing you've "won the game", so to speak.
Atheists offer no hope. God/Jesus offers Eternal life. I'll take God's/Jesus' offer. So grateful for God's love. To offer a sinner like me the free gift of eternal life.
So what the caller is saying is: I believe that invisible fairies exist and that everyone else also believes in them, and if anyone tries to say otherwise, they have to prove it.
Atheists offer no hope. God/Jesus offers Eternal life. I'll take God's/Jesus' offer. So grateful for God's love. To offer a sinner like me the free gift of eternal life.
1:55 That's the first I hear about this : so in Christianity, it is believed that EVERYBODY does believe in god, and I presume they mean THEIR god ? Wow. I mean, wtf. That's not an assumption, that is just ridiculous. If everybody believes, why would you need religion, as everybody already believes it anyway ? Makes minus zero sense. -- It does show something else, which is that religion doesn't respect individual thoughts, which is indeed something they fear a lot: people thinking for themselves is their worst enemy.
I think one of the primary joys of listening to Matt take on a presupp is the surgical precision with which he exposes the nature of pressup logic; akin to a centrifuge separating its narrative from its anatomy...exposing its circular shape for even the lay people to clearly see by the end.
This one was a nutcase, he basically says that everybody that doesn't believe in god, is lying. That's the next step in religion. But wait, that's just what they tell about "other religions", no ?
If the Hindu position is that everyone believes in Krishna, as a Christian you are denying the existence of Krishna. Please prove Krishna isn't real and that you don't believe in Krishna.
