chapters: 00:00 - intro 01:08 - to be an idol you must be approachable 02:51 - the rise of influencing individually while being in the group 04:54 - aesthetic is now everything. 10:17 - a performance on paper 12:03 - this is the future
my fav gen 2nd and 3rd gen, and no, I don't lipsyncing is that important, too much is very annoying but its not the idols fault tho, like the company did it, and they definitely don't need hate, love your videos btw
my fav gen is 2nd and also 3rd Gen for some groups! (Especially Mamamoo, praise these Queens please) I think its's really sad that live singing isn't that much of a thing anymore. I LOVE to hear breathy sounds, imperfections etc.. like YES LET ME HEAR THEM!! Also Team Outfits need to do a Comeback 🤧
2nd and 3rd gen are my favs, but I enjoy 4th gen groups as well. Yes, live singing is important, but so is the health of the artists. I don’t really care if k-pop idols sing live all the time. But I do believe they must at least be able to if they have to. And that means vocal stability, being able to hold notes and be as close to the original song as possible (hard but achievable).
@@encharmie I think what the person was trying to say was that capitalist nature of kpop have been always exposed and obvious since like 1st gen, it was never about the artists or their creative expression, the training system exists because it’s purely about business, they craft and shame young people so they can fit in the mold that THEY want because the mold sells, kpop ever since the beginning is manufactured to hell and back, it doesn’t need the influencer route to expose the capitalist vain of it all cause it’s always there in a way or another
the fact that itzy and nmixx debuted with singles while wonder girls (the first jyp group) debuted with a full album says enough about how the times have changed
Wonder Girls debuted with a single album but their first comeback was with a full album, which was the album that had tell me as it's title track. Either way, I get your point.
Most 2nd gen idols on their 2nd year would have a full album. Idols these days are going years without a full album. Jessi hasn't had a full album. And she's been in the industry a long time
Ion know why blinks get mad when their faves are called influencers, it's literally true like ?? Where is the music, they hardly act like a kpop group anymore
I can understand their side tho, because it's YG that decided not to give them music and focus on making them influencers, I don't think the girls had much choice (or at least not all of them, cause on their documentary, Rosé seemed very passionate about music)
@@karinasnooodles_ how would they improve when all that company gives is shitty recycled music even as a blink I am tired of seeing the same type of songs also making them perform their old songs for like 10000000x we already seen those enough the company should just let them hve atleast 3 comebacks a year
@@karinasnooodles_ funnily enough Blackpink has actually improved in singing. All four of them used to be worse vocalists that they are now. So your point here makes no sense. And about dancing, two mistakes on a 3 hour tour does not define them as performers. Jennie has had both bad and great performances, just like every idol.
i think another huge problem with fourth gen is that companies barely train their idols or debut them before they're even ready. like yes this idol fits the concept, but are they fully ready to debut? could we give them more time to better prepare themselves or do u just wanna debut them bc then "they'll miss their opportunity"? & even with some of the groups, their company just "fixes things" despite nothing being broken (ex. weeekly & itzy) there's a handful of kpop groups (weeekly, itzy, billlie for example) that i think debuted at the right time with the right concept and with the right members and a galloon full of groups that just have that "one thing" that could've been fixed before their debut to make them just perfect. just proof that they be having pizza parties inside them training rooms.
They train but aren't trained properly. Like 2 years of singing training should do a lot if you have what it takes, companies imo are not training probably. It's crazy. I keep saying to myself training must be a scam
@@godslittlecrayola yes even I can sing if I train properly for few months ... I had a lot of voice problems even when speaking, but after 1 month of training for one hour with easiest techniques I improved so much
@@karinvasu3005 they fill up their schedule with other activities that are more stressful for them ... and the idols seems like they don't care to do it themselves
i'm against minors debuting but let's say you're talking about an 18 year old here - is it really that bad to not be 100% ready? i don't even think anyone is ever 100% ready, and it can be a fun aspect of seeing an idol grow and improve in front of your eyes. if there's something kpop DOESN'T need more of - it's perfectionism. give idols the freedom to not be absolutely perfect in every single thing they do, it's boring.
i understand that lip syncing is sometimes done to ease the idols' burden in a performance--it is very hard to sing with how intense dances can often be lately--but i really wish live singing was done whenever it's possible to do. i feel like companies are too concerned with idols looking and sounding perfect 24/7, but personally i LOVE hearing the flaws in live singing! you can hear how hard the idol is working, and mistakes/imperfections drive their hard work home and make them seem much more human. of COURSE no one is going to sound flawless when singing live, whether they're dancing or not. the naturalism of it all really matters to me. i want to know how idols sound with their vocals completely unprocessed. i guess if a given idol really struggles to sing live i get why the company wouldn't really want that to be obvious, but there's plenty of current idols who we all know damn well can sing live like crazy and they still hardly get to show it off because, again, companies care more about perfection than anything else. desiring true authenticity from the idol industry is kind of ironic, but i would really love if live singing became a bigger thing again
i really agree! and from a western perspective it’s embarrassing. imo kpop is known for the lack of authenticity ngl because they don’t write their own lyrics or everything is pre calculated etc - i can overlook this but the lack of live singing in the 4th gen is where I draw the line. Everything is too fake, too calculated… everything needs to be PERFECT. and I think that’s boring. Group comeback stages nowadays are literally copy + paste, the only thing changing is their outfits. As someone who used to keep up with western artists, lip syncing was a big no no. Sing and dancing was the norm, no matter how great you were at it. I feel like if groups prioritised live singing and dancing they would pop off in the west like their companies would like them to. Anyway, i think I’m going off on a tangent. Bring back live singing .. idgaf about a voice crack or whatever .. it adds authenticity and rawness 🫠.
Agreed, I saw comments that blame bad microphone on several group live performances. When in reality it's not about microphones, it's their dances that causes their voices to be unstable. And that's okay, as fans they shouldn't deny the artist hardwork for live singing while performing. It's really sad when idols no longer sing on their encore win celebration because of the fear of getting backlash
@@esvck exactly. I think the Koreans don't care because they might be used to it already, but that's why many westerners still make fun of kpop. They call it fake, calculated, and inauthentic. Which is completely true. Lipsyncing will sitting in the western scene might as well get you cancelled. I'm not asking kpop to be like western music but please at least sing live if you're sitting...it's not the girls fault but the company. This is ridiculous.
With newjeans, I personally think they aren’t at the right age to be global ambassadors. As many have heard, minji is now a ambassador for Chanel, and that wowed me because she’s only 18, but I don’t see her having much impact. Same with the other members. Since they got the deals, barely any of them have appeared in magazines, shows, etc. It would be 100x better if they were ambassadors for smaller brands to fit their fresh and young concept, but instead they got scouted for bigger brands 😭? Gucci? Chanel? LV? Be serious how are teenagers going to impact these brands?
@@terminatorhd889 it's not so simple. these brand deals were already being negotiated prior to their debut. it goes like this: "hey fashion label, we're a hype subsidiary about to release a new gg, be the first to invest in them and make a deal with us, it's a win-win." MHJ is a creative and business genius.
This is a harsh take but none of the NewJeans girls has powerful star presence individually yet. So them having all these brand deals with huge fashion brands are just absurd.
In the last year I realised that companies invest in visual aspect of kpop more that in music now. It’s not just the cases when nugu group releases awesome mv with a song that has bad mixing. Many many times I saw how teaser images, outfits, MV teasers were amazing and I waited for the comeback, but the song came up decent and boring, however. Earlier I liked that particular aesthetic of an album gave it more depth and fun, so music seemed even better, but now … idk.
Maybe because I'm a Loona fan, but like why do fans support groups like ive and then act like they're (the company) forced to do that? One bad song by nmixx or even Loona etc doesn't mean you have to support groups that aren't performers at all. I don't if I'm making sense but I think fans hold some responsibility. Like itzy is right there
something that kind of bothers me is that when people talk about the decline of vocals in kpop people always talk about girl groups when, at least to me, the decline of boy group vocals is much more noticeable, like i don't think there's a single 4th gen popular/mainstream boy group vocally on the same level as Aespa or Nmixx
Jongho from ateez is a very strong vocalist! They are singers, so taking their vocals into consideration is relevant here. Boy groups don't really do different concepts either, its almost always boy crush, seasonal or sexy.
@@catwantscookie Jongho is the only member of Ateez who's a good vocalist though and i'd say he can be quite overrated Ateez is one of those groups that has a strong main vocalist but not a necessarily strong vocal line, same case as Apink or Gfriend
@@abc_jv_xyz Jongho isn't overrated at all imo ^_^ but I might be a little biased lol I think most bg focuses more on rap/performance rather than vocals. Apink and gfriend are queens, they can't be compared with anyone else💖
@@abc_jv_xyz Ateez has a very capable vocal line. Jongho is their ultimate powerhouse, but all members have proven that they can deliver stable live vocals.
I think with everything there has to be a balance. Influencing can be an effective marketing strategy that can increase exposure but when it becomes more important than the music itself (blackpink) there's a problem. While New Jeans's music and concept is good they have a clear sense of direction and that's something most 4th gen groups lack. Their sound and aesthetic was obviously created with a lot of thought and care, compared to other companies that throw ideas at the wall until something sticks. Some members recently became brand ambassadors but it hasn't taken away from their identity as a group and what they're trying to accomplish. That is the key difference.
Well said. I totally agree! NewJeans strategy was well planned for years before they debuted. When the girls mentioned they practiced Attention for 2 years I was shocked.
@@Alexa-cr1vy they are also bringing back storytelling. Not overcomplicated lore to obsess over where you don't get any answers. Actual stories. And they're executing them well too.
@@racheljohnson7177 worse end case for me gucci and lv are tacky old brand, i would have just preferred nwjns to not be ambassador for them at all. same w aespa, sm took givenchy bc it was the fastest probs, but mugler would have been better if they wanted to go for the big brand for nwjns dior was the best choice, but truly i would prefer if they didnt go for any big brand
speaking of concepts, i feel like sm created one of the most ambitious concepts we've ever seen in kpop - maybe - with aespa & are slowly throwing it out the window. their futuristic/technology concept was perfect given the recent love for y2k & their sound was great! savage mini was perfect & everyone was just excited to see where'd they go with 2022, but then we get life's too short & the girls mini & everyone began to notice the problems & don't even know what direction they're headed in. both with concept/lore & music. something else i noticed is that pre-girls era, each era was saturated with plagirism allegations. both savage & black mamba allegedy stole from smaller artists & next level is a remix. it feels like it proves that aespa can't succeed without plagarising. also sm had the chance to bring back breath taking performances, like have we seen the performances groups from the 90s/2000s gave us? they had the chance to bring the art of performance back, but they decided to take the boring "look pretty & lip sync" route.
literally and making aespa lip sync even though they really clearly would rather sing, and making them do their choreos differently to one another for their ‘concept’? is insane bc they are constantly under fire for not being synchronised and being bad dancers when that’s literally what they’re being told to do 😭😭 it’s insane they could be unbeatable if their management wanted them to be
The fact that they made me them do savage with a robotic theme-no facial expressions and little enthusiasm on stage after the girls got dragged to filth for never singing live at that time, confused me. Weren't they supposed to prove ppl wring instead of bringing the girls more hatred and prejudice? It's like SM is optionally marketing them as pretty faces(or robots as they didn't even provide them with basic protection ever since debut)
Exaclty. I feel like SM is the only company that can bring back live singing and actually have it be good now. But they don't. There's nothing wrong with toning down choreographies and singing live for 3 stages in the promotions cycle.
@@katgreer6113 if I remember correctly SM was also the one who said they want to make noise music a thing and it has taken over kpop in the last 5 years. So I agree that they can influence this as well.
Honestly I'm getting into kpop after have 5 years afar from current kpop idols and Honestly aespa is one of the groups have failed to get attention from me because I feel they musically alike a lot to the music SM used to in the 2000s and that's not bad but I feel songs like Next Level or Girls it's the kind of dark song I've heard before in groups like TVXQ or Shinhwa (maybe in a better way for me) plus it's kinda disappointing see they don't sing live. I understand if they have to lip sync some parts but use lip sync all the time it's pretty boring for me who used to love kpop for the quality some old live performances had in terms of vocals. Maybe other groups have less ambitious concepts but for some reason I find them more genuine than these girls.
Lol what do you expect when the industry is focused on capitalizing off manufactured artists. But I also blame the fandom. They don’t critic. They just praise and if you do critic your a horrible person and your just mad your favs are flopping 🙄. There is no reason to develop a craft anymore when all people care about is the way you look. You don’t have to sing you just have to sell. I think KPOP needs to have an indie development. These agencies need to stop.
Hard agree. I understand their intention is to combat hate, but its getting ridiculous. Stans really will praise their faves for breathing and will tear you apart for saying anything critical. Vixxo has a really good video on this if you're interested
But I think the issue is more complex because at the same time we now have more than ever idols that write, produce and choreograph themselves or offer their own imput for their groups in some way. I think there are some wins too. I think the reality is that there are multiple layers to this conversation. I think our attention span as a society is very short nowadays so of course the music has to be short and the visuals flashy and impressive to catch us, not to mention how competitive the industry became since it’s globalization, these companies have to do the most to attract fans. At the end of the day, businesses give the public what they consume, if kpop is this way is because that’s what WE are buying. If we chose to have different values and expectations then they would offer us that because for them it’s just about making money.
I'm curious if you think this is a sort of bubble(?) that will eventually burst and we'll revert to the older styles, or this is more like an inevitable path that will only keep going
I think that bubble will eventually burst. As fashion cycles repeat every 20 or so years, so do trends in music industry. I think we might end up in 90s-00s rnb Era where singers had to sing or even hire ghost singers, because the bar for vocals was higher. We can already see people fed up with bad vocals and repetitive songs made for tick toc, not even hitting the 3min runtime mark. Or maybe I am just expressing my hope for better lmao
theres an extensive history of trends dying down just to come back some years later. this is merely a trend, so if kpop can survive long enough then yes, it will eventually revert
its intresting how in second gen there was barely any place for main dancers, and now its the meta of Kpop to have a main dancer and complicated choreography. I think I miss the days when ggs just did a catchy choreo to support a catchy song. Now sometimes its a complicated choreo to support sometimes a weak song. Im not throwing shade to any group, but to the companies that think this is a sustainable business model... On the other hand this lip-sync controversy got out of control because its really shocking how idols that are supposed to sing in the studio can't do the same while seated down in a TV set. Like... Stans have to get reminded that idols main job is to sing?, I know that influencer based marketing is the thing now considering how much money a pretty young face can make but this is WILD.
I agree with you but I just CAN’T give up the hard choreographies, it’s one of my favourite things in kpop. I think groups should start having some performances there they lip-sync and do the whole choreo, and some performances there the one singing stand still while the rest are dancing. That would also give variety in their performances, because I don’t even bother watching the same performance over and over again there the outfits are the only things that are different
I think NewJeans absolutely nailed it with Ditto, they made something I think a lot of us were craving. It's artistic, visually pleasing, and addictive without sacrificing the quality of the music. Also, the story it tells isn't too simple or too complex. It's also one of the first kpop songs to make me emotional since Aespa's I'll make you cry. My ONLY complaint with ditto is that it's too short, like you said, probably to boost streams. I wish there was a real bridge. It wouldn't have to be a big kpop switch up, just something with a slightly different texture and a bit more focus on intimate vocals, idk. I rly hope NewJeans makes more content in the vibe of Ditto
I want to add that both Ditto and OMG got their own unique "group" outfits, that are shown here in the video with other groups (red velvet, twice, etc). Ditto had school outfits and OMG got matching bunny outfits!
I actually think ditto is a perfect song. OMG, while still great also, on the other hand, needed more variation and dynamism. That said, while I liked the 2 MVs for what it is, they are very contradictory. Making a big deal about critiquing parasocial relations while simultaneously encouraging parasocial relations by releasing their Phoning app (with paid tiers) is just hypocritical. To be clear, I don't have a problem with the Phoning app itself but I do find it insidious when paired with the parasocial critique narrative that bunnies hype up.
@@buffdaddddddddy LMAO I've thought of this too. not only just the phoning app but weverse, where most of all hybe artists are, have paid tiers too. but ador did check all the nostalgic boxes with newjeans' music and aesthetic and i guess that's why there's a lot of older fans for them. atleast a fanbase thats older than the girls will ensure a steady flow of income for the company
@@naeviswrld yeah the parasocial critique narrative should just be a one-off thing in their mythology, if not it can harm their brand cos it is highly hypocritical and condescending to their fans. that said, regarding everything else, nj can't do any wrong. say what u want about MHJ, but that woman is a creative genius and master businesswoman. nj may not be the strongest performers or vocalists but with MHJ at the helm, their success will only grow bigger.
What's happening with K-Pop is the same garbage that's happening with every other form of music and media post-TikTok: elimination of artistry in favor of quick moments of virality. It's gotten especially bad and noticeable after the pandemic started and attention spans went to shit thanks to the short video clip algorithmic nonsense TikTok delivers. Long form creativity is seen as a niche art now. Discussions are forced to happen in 1-2 sentences, 30 second soundbites. As a result, we have K-Pop on its 4.5 generation delivering the public nothing more than a viral art show. I'm not impressed. I miss the fun, catchy pop songs with relatively talented singers/dancers. This new generation is so focused on the lore and being seen that I'm not at all invested in most of them.
im ngl, as much as i do like seeing idols personal messages, i feel like some groups don’t need to be using bbl (bubble) esp. those with minors bc i feel like the parasocial relationship is off the charts.
i think eventually this will blow over and a vocal focused debut will impress a lot of people. it will be highly valued again just like what itzy's debut was in kpop for its choreography. they're trends (i hope they are ?) ps around the time i commented this primrose debuted and theyre very vocally strong ! check them out
speaking of global ambassadors, giving aespa givenchy despite them RARELY EVER wearing givenchy on stage is soooooo annoying. it doesn't even fit their concept like 🙄
There's some literature about how Kpop will be moving to more of a dance focus because of the influence of Social Media. Since dances are easier to engage with visually & fun for fans to replicate. This makes sense to me because since 2nd gen we've been seeing more complex dances & less "complex" singing. This also aligns with your observation about the influencer thing. At the same time, the music industry in multiple countries are seeing shorter songs as all companies (and some artists) are prioritizing trendiness & social media exposure. I short song is more easily used on platforms like Tiktok & companies have lest incentive to even make a longer song when you can garner interest & streams with less work. Especially if you can make the song have a trendy hook. Since companies are trying to get groups to become more popular on social media to create higher engagement & buy in from fans. I just watched 2 New Jeans performances with MRremoved and I can see why the singing is off when they are doing a workout at the same time lol Especially when you compare their singing to one of their live stages when they are standing still. I think, what we really need to be looking at is can groups sustain the singing requirement of a music group & creating engaging dances. That's what I think companies are currently grappling with *shrug* I miss 1st & 2nd Gen for their focus on the Music of Kpop, but I'm excited for 4th Gen's emphasis on performance visuals will be interesting too.
To be honest dancing is not an excuse for not live singing. Look at Beyonce. She dances and live sings all the time and she’s not the only one. That’s one of the things the record companies should have been training them on. One of the 1st things a singer learns is breath control and stabilizing their voice. Singers have been doing physical routines while singing for thousands of years. It’s just that the labels don’t care about enough about these things to train them. Like you said, it’s all about the look, it’s not about music anymore.
Nmixx is a good example within kpop on how you can sing amazing despite q gruesome choreography. They are also good at singing and dancing (imo they are even on par with 2 gen groups when it comes to singing). The group as a collective is strong, rather than it only being 1-3 members out of 7+
i wanna see idols sing live. i want to see the emotion and the message in their voices. and they don't even have to worry about facial expressions when singing live because the authenticity and the pure passion will just come out naturally. i don't care if their voices crack, i think it just shows that they're just working hard to give a true and actual performance. is it just me or am i just having obnoxious thoughts
There are a few groups currently active that have well produced music but I've noticed that those are usually self produced groups (BTS, Stray Kids, Mamamoo, [G]Idle, etc). But, yeah, music is an after thought for most idols/groups and its because companies don't recruit trainees at talent shows or competitions. In western music, the people getting record deals (usually) are the ones that have been singing and dancing since they were kids, people that genuinely love making music. Kpop trainees are recruited where ever a pretty face can be found regardless of musical talent or interest.
to me what bothers me the most is the hypocrisy and the denial that most stans have for their favorite generation. I see so many 2nd Gen stans say that kpop now is "too" capitalistic but news flash Kpop has always been capitalistic and ESPECIALLY in 2nd Gen. I even saw 2nd Gen stans saying that the hate Jennie got for the Taeenie dating rumor wouldn't happen in 2nd Gen and I was like... remember when Baekhyun and Taeyeon broke up because people hated them? Pretending that things as lipsyncing started at 4th Gen is so hypocritical. Even Shinee and Snsd used to lip sync in many of their television appearance. I need 2nd and 3rd Gen kpop fans to stop being hypocritical.
As a 2 gen fan I have some things to say. 1. What makes you believe 2gen kpop was more capitalistic???? Genuinely curious tho. I'm well aware that is always has been about the money, but it seems to me that there used to be a bigger emphasis on selling the idols talents rather then their image/influence, of course it also happend but to me it was more balanced. 2. About the dating scandals... it just makes me cringe everytime i see some people saying that it wasn't that bad before.... it was worse. Apparently some people forgot that a big part of snsd's black ocean was because tvxq and super junior fans were not happy with how close they were with gg. 3. Kinda related to 2 ...but about the idols interactions. Some people think that 2gen idols were free of being friends and touchy with each other without uproar from fans, which is false, it just happens that a lot of idols didn't care that much, while the fans were killing each other online, but even as a Sm stan myself, i can tell things have changed. 4. Lipsink... yes, all idols back in the day used to lipsink a lot, but they also used to sing live so much more. Live singing began to die in 2012. Back in the day it was very evident when idols were lipsynking beacuse there not much prerecorded tracks or autotune insite .... I don't blame the lipsync on 4 gen groups, but the generation itself, since even most 2nd and 3rd gen groups that are somewhat active lipsync too.
I’ll be honest, some 2nd and 3rd gen stans have a superiority complex over 4th gen 💀💀 like no shit you see it on every comment section “I love 4th gen but..” “I wish K-pop was like 2nd gen…” “idols don’t interacts anymore.l” we get it, you like 2nd gen and 3rd gen!
LITERALLY. nostalgia is a dangerous thing... reading many saying "3rd gen was more peaceful and fun! 4th gen is all about numbers and fan-wars" babe you weren't here in 2016 with the EXO-Ls vs. ARMYs thing
Eu cheguei na 3ª geração, mas muitos dizem que o kpop anda muito americanizado, mas SEMPRE foi assim, a questão é que pra mim, a geração menos americanizada foi o final da 2ª e o início da 3ª! Esse negócio de "dublar" a música sempre existiu
Idol is per definition an influencer (or role model). That is literally in the title. ;) Big part of what makes K-Pop idols different from western (or previous Korean) "celebrities" is (the illusion) of staying relatable and approachable, building the parasocial relationship between idols and fans. That's even true if you go back all the way to Seo Taiji and Boys in the 90s. It was the main reason why I got into K-Pop in 2nd Gen K-Pop with Girls Generation and others. Of course the rise of social media and platforms like RU-vid or VLIVE during 2nd Gen and with 3rd Gen expanded that concept beyond variety shows or reality tv, but the concept itself isn't new. For companies it always was about money and selling products so appearance and aesthetics always where the priority. That's nothing new. As is lip-syncing. I would even argue it was worse back in 2nd Gen if you look at music shows, which where stricter and more against live vocals back then, than they're today. And as for "talent": The (average) "skill level" might be higher and the training might be more demanding nowadays since the competition (and expectation on performances) also grew with the success of K-Pop. Of course the success also attracts more brands and results in more brand deals, but brand deals are nothing new.
Well, you can influence and sell stuffs but actual artists who actually sing, dance, work hard to do better than before and put an effort into their performances all the time as a group inspire and make the experience wholesome for so many listeners and kpop fans. That was the power of Kpop during 2nd and 3rd gen, the thing we all fell hard in love, in my opinion. I am not sure how to say that but I really want to see easier but fun choreos that goes along with a good, well-produced, more than 3+ minutes song with actual good lyrics. I don't want to see a dance group either. I want to see a group that could sing and dance and make the performance memorable.
newjeans definitely has their own team outfits for each comeback. like the school girl outfits for ditto, the oversized jeans and bunny ears for omg. also the summery outfits for hype boy, attention and hurt.
Also kpop fans give the title of it girl to the idol who gets most brands . It girl isn't just a model , she's supposed to have it all, talent , visual, style .
@@bladerisq3352 I got dunked on for calling ryujin an it girl bc she didn’t get brand deals but like?? The MOMENT she opened with the shoulder dance in wannabe she was That Bitch and I don’t even stan Itzy but she’s been That Bitch ever since
i think u dk what that phrase means. it girl is purely based on visuals, brands, and influence in the fashion category which is why it girl of third gen is Jennie and forth gen is Wonyoung. if you want you can make it girls the ones with best voice and most talent but it girls have always been the ones with the most influence in fashion.
@@mimistate2371 iu is the only one i would consider an it girl . She's the idol of idols , she has a lot of influence in fashion too, Plus she's highly talented .
@@shimpiyaa I belive iu is second gen so yea that wouldn't collide with any names I mentioned but she still wasn't the it girl of 2nd gen, it was a member of girls generation (forgot her name) because of her over welming beauty that single handedly made the idol visual scale. And again just cuz iu is talented, doesn't make her an it girl. Most it girls are talented in their respective areas but that's not why they are deemed an it girl. I'll say this one more time. IN ORDER TO BE AN IT GIRL YOU HAVE TO BE RANKED WELL IN THE FASHION INDUSTRY AND HAVE BEAUTY AND INFLUENCE RECOGNIZED BY NOT ONLY FANS BUT THE GENERAL PUBLIC. Iu is loved by Korea very much but barely anyone outside of Korea and kpop, knows who she is. Jennie on the other hand is a house hold face in the fashion industry most brands know her and she is usually in a lot of pintrest boards and is often inspo for people's fashion despite them not knowing she's in the world's largest girl group. Wonyoung is on her way to being the same. I do understand your point tho because IT girl is really a superficial term giving people awards for being pretty and having good style, so I see why you'd want the meaning of the term to include some form of talent. But I will say it is extremely hard to establish yourself in the fashion industry even if you come from a big company like sm,yg, or starship ent. So it's really impressive that they were able to do that since basically every idol meets the beauty standard so they did have to stand out in some special way. Though I do wish it was because of how talented all of these girls are. But that's the fashion industry for you 🙃.
is everyone in agreement with felt that 4th gen is ending in 1-2 years? am i just old or do i feel like it just started lol? i feel we haven't seen the full potential of a lot of groups and who knows the true peak of the leaders of 4th gen kpop right now. ive, lsf, nj... these three hit big/debuted only this year and i can't imagine 4th gen will be over before we see them become true seniors. i think 4th gen will end in '26-'27 (ish) but of course, it's always easier to tell in hindsight.
Yeah it feels like these generations are getting shorter Also what's separating the generations? With companies constantly debuting new groups, it's harder than ever to say when something ends and another starts.
no, i feel that way too! 4th gen groups haven't really started disbanding yet, in fact, some are at the peak of their careers. i think it's a little too early to say the whole generation is ending so soon..
I love your point on the live singing part so much. As much as I love dancing, learning & appreciating pretty choreographies, I always end up questioning "How do they sing live while dancing to this?" whenever companies release the dance practice/performance videos here. I sometimes wish the companies would hire choreographers to make easier choreographies for the idols to sing live, that way, they're actually still considered as singers, just like what the idols initially signed up for. As time goes by, your point gets even stronger with how everything has to be pretty for the aesthetics, "style over substance" as you said, rather than practicality. I wonder how the 5th gen of kpop is gonna be.
it’s because these companies all see what BLACKPINK are doing and try to replicate them by following the same formula. from major fashion house partnerships, to concepts, to cursing in songs, girl groups are trying to chase their level of success
the collab stages for the 4th gen are not collab stages, doing dances next to each other like a weird performance at school the MAMA gg stage made me laugh sm you have the most iconic girls groups of the 4th gen and you make them perform at gun point
I'm glad someone finally pointed this out!! I felt it was odd that the girls were just waiting to dance in groups. Like??? Just make them dance together and shift who was in front now and then like what 3rd gen did! Ugh. :/
The reason why I ripped into BlackPink’s formula is because I KNEW it’d be profitable and replicated. So now, some of the biggest stars of Kpop last gen and this gen have one album and 6 songs and 15 remixes of said songs…
@@mi_mo_sa9007 Some people don't care about those numbers tho They just wanted new groups to upgrade their music QUALITY instead of downgrade it to BP level
it's fascinating to me that dreamcatcher seems to be one of the major groups not jumping on these new trends and still sticking with a lot of the stuff you associate with the third gen - uniform outfits for comebacks (see scream and because), full album releases (2 in the past 3 years), and longer songs (although they do do the lore thing). not sure if this is just the company not capitalising on trends or if it says something abt the group's fanbase? somehow they manage to appeal to a particular niche of the western market without doing a lot of the things which other groups seem to be doing to appeal to the mainstream western market. idk just thinking out loud
It’s ironic how every group is trying to stand out and show individualism yet that’s the very thing that’s forced them into their own box. It can be nice, but seeing it so often makes it harder to notice uniqueness in idol groups
Been in Kpop and Jpop idolling industry for decades now: it's a common misunderstanding, but idol isn't equal to professional dancer and singer. They do sing and dance professionally, as in it's their job, but not their expertise. Idol itself literally means object to worship. The idea of idol is first coined in Jpop, taken and adapted by Kpop, yet the idea stand still: they're people fabricated to certain concept and asked to act accordingly. Singing and dancing is always second to 'attractiveness' when it comes to idol (it's not always about visual, it's how charismatic they're that everywhere they go and whatever they do, people can't stop talking). Thus, being an influencer is actually closer to the original idea of idol, except they sing and dance, too. In fact, many idols became idol only for stepping stone. Most idols true goal is to become actress, MC, solo singer and sth along the line; becoming an idol give you more exposure and build a stronger fandom (hence the rising of actdol/actor-idol, who will still receive praising no matter the quality of their acting). This issue have been discussed over years and veteran idols even admitted to it much later in their career (those who no longer active as idol). And let's not be a hypocrite, if people truly cares about singing and dancing, Sohyang would be the most popular in Kpop, and all those SWF and SMF crews wouldn't be secondary to idol dancers. And that people wouldn't care about the concept/theory of a group/song (like who cares about such a thing in US) or dating issue (bc idol is being sold as fantasy boyfriend/girlfriend).
I think the idol concept gets annoying for westerns because we are used to having our singers/groups sing live, even though they might be using auto-tune. Since kpop is storming in the west, where we do expect artists to sing live, we end up get disappointed when image weights more than artistry. About Seo Tai Ji and The Boys I don't consider them comparable to the kpop idol concept that evolved from their impact in korean music. For me, they are really really out of it.
@@wildhoney1978 it's not just westerns, basically all other countries where they don't have this concept can't fathom the idea of idols not singing live. East Asians are the only ones who knows how idols work, that's why they don't think so highly of idols bc some of them think idols are product for worship, they're not in the same category as real singer nor dancer nor rapper (that also explains why male audiences don't take male idols seriously and prefers listen to bands and underground rapper)
THANK YOU I feel like people are forgetting what idols are meant to be. Seeing people getting worked up over idols not being able to sing is getting irritating the reasoning is simple and not complex at all, THEY JUST DON'T CARE they're here to look good to the public. Though I do find it annoying because at least jpop idol is self-aware and just blatantly admits that they aren't the greatest performers and is here just to entertain, but for kpop??? my god their fans have managed to gaslighted themselves into believing that their faves are the best performers of all time 🤪🤪🤪
@@winterdreambell I don't think they're forgetting what idol really is, more like they don't even know it, especially for newer stans since 3rd to 4th gen. These new stans are so ignorant, I honestly don't know if I should laugh or not when they're glorifying older generations as if 4th gen is the worst, when in truth both are inferior to actual singers/dancers/rappers. The older gen is only getting better thanks to improvement over years. Idol's main job is basically influencer selling dream, like it or not.
The biggest thing that shocked me in this video and that most proves your point is about halfway thru when you're talking about concepts and when you edited them all together you can see that there's a clear distinction between different groups, songs, music video, like I can clearly say oh that's a different song she's showing, that's a new one when you look at the 3rd gen MV's - but when you edited the clips of the 4th gen MVs - I was like wait this could all be one music video. It just feels like everyone's doing the same thing. Like all the girl groups and all the boy groups of this gen are very similar and its harder to pick out your favorites and front runners out of the slight differences in their concepts/stages.
i don't rlly have much a problem with the use of high fashion brands esp. when used to make some amazing outfits (ex. nxde w/ mugler & love dive w/ miumiu), but i would like to see the "uniform set" outfits make a return. i feel like hybe tried to do this with le sserafim's fearless, but it was just too boring given their concept.
I mean fearless is boring as a whole. It's meant to be a chill, introductory song on the group and their concept revolving around self-empowerment. And this is coming from a fearnot lol. so yes their outfits throughout that era became boring as a result. I think there are a lot of things hybe wanted to try out, but I feel like it's not exactly an issue because as long as they look harmonious and no one stands out like a sore thumb, it's all good 🤷🏻♀️ All things considered I feel like the reason kpop become high ends clothing endorsement is simply because how popular kpop now, how hallyu wave have reached farther and father shore. The exposure is simply massive, for both the brand and the group. Which is nice because we can see gorgeous outfits as long as the stylists are good lol. Tho I agree I want some things like Izone's fiesta outfits, or their SSotS outfits. Where the company literally custom made them for the girls lol. It also reminds me of how j-idols are styled tbh.
i feel like newjeans being brand ambassadors not only don't make sense given their concept, but none of the girls besides danielle fit their respective brand. im not familiar w/ lv so i can't say much, but sticking minji with old lady tweed chanel for what could be 7 years of her life? everyone says she has a "princess, old hollywood" visual but i rlly cant see her in a full chanel set. maybe if she was older? but she'd pair way better w/ dior! & hanni w/ gucci is???? she's very cute & i think she'd work way better w/ miumiu, prada, or maybe even jacquemues? & haerin would work a lot better w/ prada or shushu/tong although idk if they have any ambassadors. & as for a group ambassadorship, they'd work better w/ smaller brands but i think marc jacobs heaven would fit them. their stylist LOVES quirky clothing.
Chanel probably shelled out big money for her, precisely because they have been trying to attract younger customers for years now. They very much don't want to be knows as the old lady tweed brand.
@@EverythingxYourexNot yea that & i think ador is pushing her towards them despite styling her in a way that fits the “tomboy” archetype. again maybe if she was a bit older, i think she’d fit very well but rn idrk…
It’s obvious why they chose big brands but what would have fit them the most clearly are smaller brands with fitting youthful aesthetics! Perhaps brands that are based in Asia. Imagine how fun it would’ve been to see nj give real buzz to these (slightly) smaller brands which newer designers and what that would do to nj’s image, they’d be seen as so original and real youthful which I thought was their concept. When it comes to brand deals it seems like companies give up the whole concept no matter which group 🙃
personally I noticed this when blackpink debuted as yg viewed them and literally said they were the prettier version of 2ne1. They tried so hard to push that idea by focusing less on music and more on instagram/modeling like they didnt release any music for like 2 yrs or sum😭😭. Because it worked and they gained major international popularity, other companies followed and that's now become how things are which is rlly sad, it's hard to care abt kpop now since it values modeling more than music and dancing
i agree w/ u on nmixx & i think another group that has this "concept" issue also is enhypen, specifically w/ their newer releases. i feel both groups respective companies wanted to make the members fit the concept as much as possible instead of giving them a concept that just screams "nmixx" or "enhypen". i think enhypen's earlier eras do this well, but the heavy rapping just doesn't suit them imo. i dont rlly wanna drag on with nmixx bc everybody & their mamas have already stated their opinions, but i do hope their team evantually gets the hang of the concept.
I agree with your opinion on enhypen. I feel hype is moving them away from their concept too quickly and I don't like enhypen rapping, it's not their style.
It kinda confuses me when people say “Ya’ll called Blackpink influencers but now every idol is becoming an ambassador”. The main point, at least for me and I would like to assume most people, isn’t being a brand ambassador in itself. It was never about that. It’s about neglecting your “main” job as musician, as an artist. People don’t call blackpink influencers simply because they are ambassadors for brands. I don’t care about that and it’s not a big deal, especially knowing that many idols don’t get much income from the music so these brands can help them get some more income. People called blackpink influencers because they push music to the side to focus on being brand ambassadors. You hear more about them being at fashion week than about them putting out music or doing music related activities. That’s what an influencer is. People are acting like it’s simply being an ambassador, when it’s not. If each member of mamamoo became a brand ambassador for a fashion house today, most people wouldn’t care (except for unnecessary haters ofc), why? Cause they’ve shown that they’re in it for the music. If soyeon became an ambassador for Versace or something today, would most people call her an influencer? No. Cause you know music is what she’s here for. If every member of stray kids or seventeen became an ambassador would people call them influencers? I think you get my point. I don’t think people should drag idols simply for being a brand ambassador when that can be really beneficial to the idols career, especially in the long run. But if an idol is using music as a side job and practically presenting themselves as well, an influencer, is it really a “drag” to call that out? I don’t have a problem with new jeans becoming brand ambassadors, I do think it’s a bit too soon especially for the maknae, but all in all it doesn’t bother me because so far, their team seems to be in it for the craft, the music and the art of it, at least as much as a corporation can be. Now, if they start mostly doing fashion related things and put their music on the back burner, then yes, I’ll have something to say about it and will most likely see them as influencers. My point is, musicians should be active as musicians. Something like a brand deal is mostly seen as a side hustle for a musician, which it is. However when the two are switched and music becomes the side hustle, it’s not a “drag” to call that person an influencer, it’s a fact.
Blackpink have an impact on the fashion industry and music industry They're the only group that can do two things and it's proven. After missing 2 years, come back with a song that has more than 1 billion streams now. and can make 3 Guinness records became the first kpop group to hold #1 on Spotify for more than a week.Brands that BP members Holding at the end of the year they profit from the name of BP members. More than 150% of each brand. is a Coachella headline and BFT. They weren't more interested in fashion. I will tell you in 1 year BP members have participated in fashion events 1-2 times. You think they go often because people talk about them for so long. It looks very normal for a western artist. But when it's BP, why is there a problem?Being an artist is not about the number of songs more or less.
@@parkpark6976 If you’re gonna try and have a conversation with me, don’t bring up achievements and streams as if I care about that. This is kpop, do you think 1 billion people actually listened to that song? I don’t care about things like that in an industry like kpop where everything is mass streamed by fans even if it isn’t good. I said what I said, if I wasn’t sure I would’ve asked someone to clarify. Blackpinks names are more heard in fashion than music, it’s not a question it’s a fact. They don’t have an “Impact on the music industry” and I’d argue they don’t even have one on the fashion. Yes, they have huge brand deals which is amazing, but do you actually know what impacting the fashion industry is? It’s setting trends, breaking barriers, trying new things and influencing people to dress like them. It isn’t just dressing in designer or being a brand ambassador. If I had to think of actual fashion icons that have great impact on fashion in their respective areas, It would be Rihanna, G dragon, Bella Hadid, Kanye West, ASAP Rocky to name a few. Please tell me what impact have blackpink had in fashion actually? I hear this statement countless times but nobody has actually elaborated on it. Who have they impacted other than kpop stans and their fans? What is actually exceptional or groundbreaking about their looks? Cause that’s what a fashion icon is supposed to be. And I never said it’s a problem for them to have brand deals, I said they prioritize fashion over music and that’s a fact. I never asked a question, I stated a fact. Coming out with 6 mediocre songs every 2 years, is that prioritizing music? They’re musicians, well at least that’s what they’re supposed to be, but they and their company are not acting like it. And please stop with this narrative of “it looks normal for a western artist”. No. That’s a lie. Western artists take breaks, yes, but when they come back guess what? They come back with full albums, almost a year of promo and then tour that whole album that has more than 8 recycled songs. The breaks aren’t the problem, it’s what they come back with. If they came back with full well thought out and well produced albums every two years with a full and proper promotional period (not just a few performances and then disappear), then nobody would say anything. Oh and also, blackpink aren’t western artists, they’re kpop idols, which I think their fans seem to forget.
Girl they've been called idols since the beginning what are you on about. Are you people forgetting that kpop took japan's idol culture? they were never meant to be the greatest performers, singers, or dancers. They're in the industry solely for entertainment. An analysis on kpop is great but I sometimes think you people are forgetting the most important factor of why kpop idols... are like that.
such a good video, you hit every nail on the head, this plus the idols getting younger and younger is honestly why i’m not into kpop much anymore, when my groups disband im leaving
I feel like many of the groups now are trying to be popular in the shortest amount of time and then snatch the big luxury brands to become influencers. Their focus is not to make music but to be popular. But the fans mindset is also changing like many seem to view being a luxury brand ambassador is the main achievement of idols instead of expecting them to be better singers.
Also about lypsincing, I think it's not only because the choreographies make it hard to sing, but also because more and more groups are being formed without focus on the vocals. It also seems like some companies do not provide singing lessons to their idols, unlike what was rigourous training before.
I’m not *that* bothered about celebrities doing brand deals because they’ve literally always done that (though I do strongly believe luxury fashion is a scam) but like, I can’t put my headphones on and rock out to a Givenchy ad. I expect music first, and music includes vocals. I do wish more companies would either create space for vocals in the choreography (like how 2nd gen idols used to just stop doing the choreo to hit the high note and then restart, nowadays Ateez almost always formats the choreography to have Jongho still or minimally moving when he’s doing the harder notes and I wish more would do that) or use a style of vocals that can be done with choreography, like how Itzy music tends to heavily feature chanting, and isn’t mind blowing in the vocal department, but because of that it can be done live. But sitting in a chair completely still and lip syncing is just a shame. Like there are extenuating circumstances (cold, sickness, etc.) but if those aren’t at play and an idol still isn’t singing somethings gone very wrong with the industry. I do think it’s bad that the standards have gotten so ridiculous that fans genuinely think lip synced vocals are live, we’ve forgotten what real human voices sound like and idols are so pushed to perfection that even when they *do* sing live someone comes in afterwards with the vocal smoothing to “fix” it. Then again these are the same people that think puberty can entirely change the shape of your jawline and nose, and their fave couldn’t *possibly* have gotten plastic surgery and the snow filter is what real human skin looks like. The unreality in K-Pop (and honestly the internet in general) is getting wild. But like in a horrible way. Because that’s what it is.
This trend of an idol turned influencer was existing since 2nd gen but it was rare and lowkey and the idols usually only become models/influencers after their contracts are over and they decide not to renew it. But i think BLACKPINK are the ones who popularized this since each member became a brand ambassador 2 or 3 years into their debut, also since they barely released music, all the time is spent doing photoshoots, attending parties and living like socialites, and their fans were always bragging about that, so much that they made it seem like being a "house ambassador" or "influencer" should be the new standard if you wanna be famous and get recognition. Now every group started releasing less and less music just like Blackpink and focusing more and more on appearing in Magazine covers and attending fashion shows. Wonyoung for example, no hate but i dont even understand why she's an idol, she really isnt gifted talent-wise, and she, like the Blackpink members, spends most of her time shooting and attending fashion shows rather than practicing and trying to improve her below-average skills, she should just leave the group and become a full-time model or influencer, it would suit her more and she wont be wasting her time. I also blame the comapnies who are clearly envying the way Blackpink achieved so much fame and succes whith barely any hard work or music and solely depending on their luxurious image, and that's why they started to all try to introduce their new groups to the fashion world in hope of getting the same Blackpink sucess. They dont even care about talent anymore, they just want a girl with a pretty model like face and push her to be in the center of everything even is she wasnt talented. Im specifically talking about girlgroups, because bougroups are clealry more passionate about music and its sad to see them get less and less attention in favor for the girlgroups who only have to look pretty and appear on magazines to attract the general public. The Kpop industry is messed up to no extent and im glad i left i stopped being a fan a long time ago. The toxicity and unfairness is getting out of control
The issue is that it's looks unfair for grps that r actually equally working hard. Big 4 r getting all opportunity meanwhile smaller grps hv to wait longer. Eariler getting recognized by big brand means you r worked hard but now anyone can get the deal as long they r from Big 4. Also like BP's case they completely forgot about their music. I hv to say if it wasn't bcs of YG BP wouldn't hv survived this long.
I’ve been complaining about 4th Gen being almost entirely performance based and felt like the lone voice in a storm so thank you for this. Especially on the heels of all the nonsense “3rd Gen couldn’t dance” discourse from the past few weeks from 4th Gen fans - so wrongheaded and your idols don’t sing! And it’s not like there isn’t vocal talent among 4th Gen groups but there’s so little focus even in the production of songs these days, just crank out a hook that will have some extra staying power in ads and TikTok. I mean credit I guess that the industry is unashamed to treat idols as products but are they not supposed to be a little about the music? I love Kpop for the choreography and the design and the lore, but as a music lover it bums me out because the music used to be very unique and interesting
Damn....3rd gen can't dance? Literally idols like Kai, B.A.P Zelo & Jongup, BTS Jimin & Jhope literally existed since a long time ago, 4th gen stan said 3rd gen can't freaking dance? Lmao this is the funniest thing i heard from 4th gen stan lol
@@shahirashamshulanuar3511 Oh believe me, the 3rd Gen fans clapped back with their super cuts of SPEED and Topp Dogg and VIXX but it’s not like it matters because all the dumbest Kpop arguments start from a place of “I only follow my ults and in order to prove they’re the best I have to make up something to prove everyone else is terrible” And it is ridiculous because 3rd Gen was when the insane choreo arms race really kicked off, whether you want to point to EXO or BTS, but that’s when the real stunt choreo race heated up
@@mhmmhm5995 It’s not that I think the music is bad per se (although some of it definitely is boring and unoriginal if not outright poor) it’s just there’s a decline in vocals I mean I was never a fan of the “hey our main vocal can hit a high note and of course most/highest/loudest singing = best” attitude, but we don’t even seem to do that anymore I’ve enjoyed a good deal of stuff from last year’s rookie groups, but it was it was mostly down to the production value on the songs and not because I was blown away by anyone’s voice
No matter how much you'll dislike bts you'll gotta admit those boys have passion for music! Them releasing songs all of a sudden without caring about charts and their recent solo albums also proves how they truly want to find their solo music style and trying to bring variety in their solo music! BTS is the definition of how you can be successful without losing your passion! I guess that's why they released youth with you as the title track instead of run bts! They wanted to connect with their fans before enlisting!
I also think the new culture around fancalls has done a number on 4th gen. Because companies know that they can rely on hardcore fans for profit no matter what by just pumping out fancalls one after another, they don't feel the need to curate a solid group image or quality music and variety content. They can get away with making a good surface image for the group without doing any of the things they need to give them long standing support like releasing long albums with quality music or even scheduling them for sufficient public appearances and variety content
My main reason for getting in kpop was vocals, bc back then (gen 2) dances and visuals didn't matter as much. I can't deny I'm struggling to find groups to stan in gen 4 despite trying hard to enjoy them. (edit: I'm not looking for recommendations, because I know all existing groups already. my point was is that there just literally isn't much worthy to stan atm other than a select few.)
Try SM for vocals. They are very good with vocal , listen their bside track which are very good . Do you want to recommend some .. Try NCT cover any cover . Try NCT dream live , ANL and life still going on , irreplaceable and do you know what is interesting about these songs they are from the same album Try exo member solo album Baekhyun- cry for me , all I got is you D.o - I'm gonna love you , I'm fine etc from album emphaty Chen- cause i don't even mind Chanyeol is a rapper but try his songs like , stay with me , yours and many others
me too, its really weird how in 4th gen main vocals of teams like Hanni, Sieeun, Minnie, Liz, Yunjin would all be considered lead vocals in 2nd gen similar to Sunny, Namjoon/Bomi, Hani, Yuna, vocal quality has drastically reduced normally singers like Haewon/Lily would be the standard main vocal in groups now theyre rare and stand out
@@nunogplus They're not bad, but their concept has been done 10 times over before and since I'm a grown adult now I feel awkward to stan a 'baby' concept group, sorry! Good luck to your faves though! /gen
I got into kpop at the shift of 3rd gen to 4th. And while I do love a lot of the music and visuals/concepts rn, for me 2nd and 3rd generations are definetelly at the top. I always end up looking back and loving everything from those gens way more. Maybe it's just this phantom nostalgia for something I barely got to experience or didn't at all, or I "stanned in the wrong generation", but I think your video gives out a very good and rational reason as to why kpop might not feel the same on so many levels. Off the topic, but found your channel this morning and have been binging your videos all day, GREAT work, keep it up!!
Idols these days are brand ambassadors just few months after their debuts as if the company was waiting real hard when they are going to push their idols in the influencer path. Blackpink’s influencer formula for success worked so obviously every company will try to do the same. Just like how many tried to replicate BTS’s success. The norm nowadays is-> you go to pre school-> you join as a trainee ~> you debut ~> you become a brand ambassador 🤷♀️ It’s sad how these kids don’t get to have a normal childhood. All the brand deals in the world won’t be a substitute for your childhood.
Blackpink is literally a group of influencers.. They don't even bother to do bare minimum. Even the groups that debuted after them has more songs than them
Excellent video, I’ve been waiting for someone to talk about this, I feel like nowadays idols are more focused on being influencers/ambassadors of fashion brands than actually being an artist/singer/rapper/dancer, with the rise of lip sync and some idols not making an effort to sing/do their job on stage and fans making excuses for them and saying that lip sync is okay, says a lot about what is currently going on in kpop, now fans are starting to not even care about the music but their favorite idol looking pretty/ being an influencer. Soon you will see companies signing people to companies only based on their looks, talent won’t matter anymore, looks will and companies will sign people who are marketable/have a pretty face to be an ambassador of a fashion brand, groups will all look the same. But at the end of the day, artists will be remembered for the talent/theyr music while idols who are influencers will be forgotten much faster and not be remembered for their music
Yo your videos are deep I a musician that hasn't dropped yet but it's coming and your perspectives are like you been in music industry since the beginning great job keep it up you give me things I need to know and look out for
omg the team outfit i swear back then why i love red velvet so much due to team outfits like zzb psycho and many more but i feel like their now following the trends of fourth gen.
I always get attacked when I say this ! The most important thing for singer idols is to sing if you are just pretty be an actor or model if you can dance be a dancer they destroyed kpop by introducing young untrained idols
I love how you structure your videos so well and actually stay to the topic, most people would just have their opinion/point of view instead of talking about it in a neutral way.. not saying u can't have your own opinion but when people make the WHOLE video soley based on their opinion it gets annoying because everyone is saying the same exact thing all the time but you're very much different from that and I enjoy your channel! hopefully you make it to 10k soon.
i’m so glad you mentioned blackpink in your video, you’d think it’s the bare minimum but i’ve watched a few where they aren’t even mentioned your videos are also very well put together ive been watching since your 3rd video
@@bladerisq3352 while i love exo and how talented they are, im talking about a full fledged lore that ( for hi high ) has a beginning and an end and real established characters. Not something thats so loose u cant be sure if its lore or not, what felt is talking abt in the video basically
I feel like the bgs are maintaining the essence of kpop; they aren't nearly as much about being influencers, ambassadors, models as the 4th gen ggs I feel like NMIXX, NEW JEANS, (G)-IDLE, Purple Kiss and Billlie are the only 4th gen ggs that care more about performances and music than all the side jobs (modeling, variety, MC-ing etc.) But I feel like it's not the same with the bgs; P1HARMONY, ONEUS, MCND, ATEEZ, SKZ, TBZ, CIX, TREASURE, OMEGA X, ENHYPEN and some others are such a joy to watch and I feel like they actually care about being performers, not influencers and/or models Also, I can't think of a single "filler" member in 4th gen boygroups, which is almost a staple for all new ggs; a member debuting just because of their looks
le sserafim as well, I feel like they're getting left out of conversations abt music when every comeback there are multiple members that are credited for composing and yunjin have already released 2 solo songs that she made. They're rounders who care about music and performance, they're the best next to G-idle.
Seventeen is a great example of people who sing live and dance hard choreos ❤ i love them… but i also love ive and blackpink too!! it’s all in the music for me. i love these groups songs most.
The first ad break I got was a makeup store, which began, "New year? New products!" Yea, that feels apt. Though this turn from artist to influencer is not exclusive to kpop. I think of Rhianna making more money as a makeup & lingerie brand owner than as a musician, and the league of other celebrities following her path. Actors and singers are making less money with streaming, so I don't fault any idol or company for going where the money is. And especially for ggs, it's not music. (Side note: does anyone else feel really weird about New jeans being Burberry or calvin klein ambassadors? Idk who thinks a 16 year old modeling for a luxury brand makes sense.)
Personally, I don't think that live singing skills (or talent in a broader sense) is very important in order to become popular/successful in k-pop. (Success in this day and age depends a lot more on thing like marketing strategy which includes concepts, asthetics... and visuals). However, when things like this "scandal" (Wonyoung and Leeseo's cover) happens, I can't help but think that has skill/talent become more like a cushion to protect group from controvesy? I mean, if Wonyoung and Leeseo had showcased and proved their live singing before, how would this "scandal" pan out? Or would this "scandal" even happen at all? I guess what I'm trying to say is that skill/talent is no longer the essential element in order to be successful, but rather a cushion for group to fall back on when controversy/scandal happens.
Think this is also a reflection of the newer gen fandom. Alot of younger people enjoy aesthetics & fitting into aesthetic (not saying this is bad, I think its cool that younger people enjoy fashion alot). And I think Kpop grabbed onto that and is just capitalizing off of that. One of the main complaints I hear about second gen is that the styling was "cringe " and too uniform back then & people are baffled as to how people back then even liked Kpop cause that styling makes it "embarrassing" to watch/look at. Alot of new gen people like that Kpop styling n music is "sanitized" to a point. And I think that sanitization is a BIG reason it blew up in the west. Cause to the eyes of people who didn't like/made fun of kpop it was no longer cringe or laughable it was cool. You can see this in how the fandom reacts to outfits out of the box or not styled to look completely aesthetic or aren't following a trend. I lot of people will call it ugly & say the stylist did that Idol dirty. When its just out of the box styling. To kind of flip it around I think thats why 2nd gen fans & older fans aren't that big of a fan of 4th gen kpop. Cause when 2nd gen got into kpop the "cringe" was kind of what made Kpop stand apart from from other music. The out there outfits, the box set sets, the deep eyeliner, the crazy hair colors. The catchy repeative music. Since those people got into kpop in this era alot of people see this aesthetic/brand styling in 4th gen as a watering down of what made them love kpop in the first place. Idk about the fandom as a whole but this is the second video I have watched on this topic & I feel like people are slowly getting overwhelmed by this sanitization & if enough people show with there dollars that there over it the trend will shift, like it always does. On the subject of storylines in Kpop I LOVE them tbh. But I long for the longer format storyline driven MVs. Was rewatching some T-ara & BAP MVs. And I was like wow I really miss these 4 -10 minute movies they used to do. I also loved how they served as like a album preview almost as well. Since they would use songs from the album to set the mood most of the time. But I doubt that would ever comeback since our attention spands are slowly dying. lol Grate commentary video as usual. And thanks to whoever reads this mind fart of an essay.
what a powerful ending. I've had these same thoughts as well. I REALLY valuelive singing. I love hearing imperfections but idols get dragged for it bc everyone is so used to hearing pre-recorded vocals or even the studio version. I think the biggest slap in the face is the repeatedly using the same pre-recorded vocals. A lotof solo performers in the US who also dance will have a separate choreo for live vs M/V. Because it's impossible to do both and I feel like that's something we saw a lot on 2nd gen and a bit less in 3rd gen. Give me a full out dance practice or performance ver. and a really nice live vocal stage. I don't mind the influencing, for me its the "I can't dance and sing at the same time so I'll just dance" like no SING! You're a SINGER!
This ‘lousier songs and fancier clothes’ phenomenon in kpop is a direct result of the shortage of a cute korean vocalist. All kpop companies have a formula when forming a kpop group and a puppy-faced, korean passport holder vocalist used to be a must. It actually still is. However, any teen who fit in that criteria nowadays are not really interested to be an idol. Kpop industry in general has became unpopular among korean teens and the trainee pool has shrunk to one fifth of what it used to be. K-R&B and ballad field are where they all have headed to. Locially, you would have to accept any vocalist even if they are ‘less cute’ atp but kpop companies took a different turn. Most of them either went for a ‘everyone is a vocalist’ concept or a ‘we don’t have a position’ concept. All these are bs, its just a marketing strategy to hide the fact that the cute korean vocalist was not found. To cover the lack of vocal skills, of course the companies will have to buy the most generic, repetitive songs, or the noise, edm type songs, hook songs in hopes that nobody will notice. Then they dress the group up in the most expensive clothing so that again, no one will notice the vocals, and two, they will stand out from the rest. The number of teens nowadays in korea is almost half of what it was in late 2000 and the willingness of teens to be an idol is absolute zero. I fear its gonna be a cycle now unless the companies wake up to accept the non-traditional vocalists into their new group.
I feel like what people fail to understand is that as long as we are compliant with it, companies will keep on doing it. Kpop companies do not give a fuck about anything but money, so we NEED to put our money where our mouth is if we want to see any changes
i was kind of surprised when ive was being criticized for the lip-syncing cover since i'm pretty used to almost every k-pop group lip-syncing during covers, collabs, etc. this is how it is here HSHAHA
Almost every great kpop vocal group have done it. Snsd. Exo. Shinee. ALL of them have lipsynced in one way or another. This superiority complex that certain stans have piss me off.
I think that particular performance was criticized because they were doing that while sitting down and not moving. That is very much not the norm, and never has been.
other groups didn’t get as much as hate as ive did in that particular performance is because they were sitting down and not dancing usually people excuse lip syncing by saying it’s difficult to dance and sing at the same time while having stable vocals , there isn’t much excuse for that sitting down also the track they used to lip sync over wasn’t recorded separately, it’s the exact same track they used in another performance personally i like ive and i don’t really care about the fact that they didn’t sing live while sitting down but that’s just me because i see them more as ‘influencers’ than actual singers tbh
@@EverythingxYourexNot they also didn't even try to make it look natural or live. It just looked like a competition between Wonyoung and Leeseo on who looks more beautiful on camera
OMG I thought I was crazy noticing BP's influence when it comes to gg's. It's actually sad, I wish kpop companies old let somethings be that group's thing. Like just because it worked doesn't mean it's a good thing. Influencing is the worst that happened to kpop, idk if it can be reversed. I also find the Luxury branding disturbing as hell. It killed unique outfits. Some outfits seem detached to the concept of a song. They are boring and generic. Like with BP's KTL we have brands (I think) but the costumes are good.
You know that groups are passionate when they release music all of a sudden(stray kids,bts,exo,gidle,mamamoo) without any promotion or stuff unlike releasing music once in two year for hype and views!
Everyone wants to get rich including K-pop idols. The globalization of K-pop is what is changing it. I'm a 56 year old white man who started listening and watching K-pop several years ago. Basically when Black Pink started was when I found it. There music was fresh and new to me. I've listened to rock most of my life. I know I'm not there primary demographic, but I buy there music because I enjoy it. Successful groups are going from making millions of dollars. to 10's of millions of dollars in there careers Anyone who gets angry at these groups needs to realize that this it's what drivers them forward. I'm sure many of them are artists who want to make good music. This gives them a huge audience. If the idols and groups are successful means that is what the public wants. They vote with there wallets. My favorite groups are Dearmcatcher, Itzy , Aespa and Twice. It not just the music , I love the Korean variety shows with them. There the most entertaining TV in the world right now in my opinion. Success brings changes. Nothing can remain the same with out eventually dieing,. There was a Vlive with Ryujin from Itzy a few years ago, were she said one of the reasons she became an idol was she wants to be rich.
