You make some really good points and I agree with your reasoning on buying from an individual. That being said, I have had some very good results buying from dealers. I think the key to buying from a dealer is to thoroughly check out the dealer and their history and reputation. There are dealers out there who have built repeat business over the years by doing the right thing and only selling cars that meet certain standards. Granted you may pay a little more sometimes. But if you pay a couple thousand more on the front end, and not get those surprises on the back end, it is worth it. Whether you buy from a private party or a dealer, do your due diligence first. If the seller doesn't want you to have the car thoroughly checked out, walk away.
I am 110% in alignment with you RE paying up when buying from a dealer in exchange for a sorted, premium example. As you say, the key is for the dealer to deliver on that. I have heard too many stories where the opposite happened. Thanks for watching 🙏🏽
After 11 (1 owned twice) 911’s, both air and water cooled, only 2 were really problematic. Both were bought privately. One a 964Turbo leaking oil and generally worn out and in dire need of restoration (mileage never is correct on these cars), and the other a 997.2 with a hidden accident history which was “advertised with a PPI” and bought from a Porsche Center by the private seller I bought it off. The PC couldn’t even find the PPI report when delivering the car. I’m in the process having fun crucifying the PC as we speak. Other than that, 2 were bought off a PC; a 996 with lots of issues they had to sort out on used car warranty and a Carrera T in good shape, but with recurring issues needing replacing parts under new car warranty. The 964 bought off a indie specialist was a true gem and actually the only car I’ve bought back, just recently. The 996.2 GT3 CS I bought off a private seller was solid per se, but kind of a mess with messed up geometry and lots of racked up maintenance issues. The 997.1S from a private party was a true low mileage gem. The 964 Cabrio from a private seller was a rust bucket but a hilariously fun car to own as I bought it cheap and didn’t have any concerns using the crap out of it. The -89 C4 from a private seller was in dire need of restoration and was just flipped to an indie specialist for a profit. The amethyst 993 Carrera I just bought off a private seller is just heavenly. Probably the Best Buy to date. The daily driver Taycan also was bought off a private seller upgrading to the Turbo, but that too, as the 991.2, needed a lot of lights fogging up replaced, it’s spoiler adjusted and multiple software upgrades, but all-in-all the Taycan is a beast of a car and the best car I’ve owned to date, across all brands. It’s just totally flippin’ awesome to drive and puts even the manual Carrera T to shame on track. Bottom line: I’ll never own a new-ish Porsche outside of warranty and I’ll never sell any of my 911’s ever again. 991’s and beyond are not worth the money they cost. The upkeep is horrendous if outside warranty.
I’m hoping that the prices either go down a bit or at least stay the same for the next few years so I can buy my own air cooled Porsche. Been saving up slowly to be able to get one, dream car baby🤞🏻
Private sale works better for me. You get more info about the vehicle and negotiating works a lot better. You can always take a car to get inspected before you lay out the money.
Absolutely agree, especially about the story of the car. Every classic car is going to come with a list of to-do's and potential problems, but with a private seller you are far more likely to get a sense of the real story of the car and the kinds of problems you can expect. And we have always liked the concept of our ownership being just one part of the car's life story, and a car with an interesting (and known) story is always going to be more fun to drive, tinker with and talk about over a coffee or a beer with friends.
I have bought 9 cars and agree with your comments. I keep in contact with all the private sellers, and many buyers still keep in touch with me. It means a lot to them and me to get pictures and know the car is cherished. Dealers just don’t know the history/nuances of the car as well as someone who has owned and driven the car for years. I have also found better experience when the contact is made through the car associations.
Excellent video Will - well thought out and presented - you’ve nailed it once again. I’ve owned a 914, 924S and a 964 (currently). My experience aligns with yours - the 914 & 924S came from a mechanic / flipper (I didn’t know any better) and the 964 from a private seller for whom the 964 had been a part of the family. The private seller is great and willing to help us trouble shoot. I bought the 964 from him in 2010. I still reach out to him whenever I do a mod to the car.
Unfortunately (and fortunately) I hear these stories time and time again. The bad - dealers/flippers selling subpar, or at least problematic cars with undisclosed issues…and the good - private sellers who actually care about the car and the buyer. Thanks for watching. 🙏🏽
Great points all around. I have two 993s; a coupe and a cab and I know both previous owners. My experience has been pretty good with private sales, BUT... unfortunately I've still had work to do on each car. Many private owners drive their cars and don't know how to maintain so you could still use a sharp eye and a bit of experience to make sure you know what you're getting into. One additional great point is a PCA club member is great to buy from. If they're in the club, they seem to care more about the community and where the car is going. Good video!
Will, got a ‘95 Carrera from Gaudin Porsche Classic Las Vegas in March. Total on line buying and everything was as represented. Our first air cooled joining our 981 boxster s, macan turbo, and 991.2 3 rs. We love them all!
Agreed 100%. Bought my first air cooled from the same place where you bought the 964. Found out that my car was driven hard and put away wet by the PO. Sold it after a few months at a loss. Learned an expensive lesson. In fact, I checked out the 964 you bought. Wish I knew you were the one buying the car. I would have given you, my thoughts. No need to look back. Fix the car. Enjoy it. Prices will eventually catch up to your cost.
Unbelievable. And this same place has such a “great” reputation and is well liked in the community. I’ll say this. You’re not the only person who has messaged me having had the same experience with the same outfit. Just further supports the notion ONLY to buy private party and thoroughly vet it. As far as my 964 goes, it needs loving for sure. It’ll cost more than I want but I am not necessarily as concerned about getting the money back out as I plan to hang onto it. I think it’s going to be beautiful car after mechanically sorting it and having it cosmetically gone through. Thanks for watching and for the support. 🙏🏽
Great video. Love your taste in Porsche’s. I currently own a 1995 993, 2007 997 TT, 2008 987 Cayman S. All purchased private. I like to interview the seller myself snd get a sense of how they carry them selves not with cars but life. In fact I also on day 997.2 S that I sold to someone I became friends with. In the background picture is a mansion that was given to me by the seller because I held onto the car for him until he was ready to purchase it. Good stuff!
Good content. In general I look at buying private party as a whole experience where I am looking to adopt a family member. You get a real good feel from the seller in how they run their life and treat their cars. Like you said a view of their garage and the story of their ownership is what I am looking for. A dealer transaction is just that, it is a business deal on a car. Nothing wrong with that as I have had some nice experiences on this side, but the difference was very clear. What you didn’t touch on was when you are selling. I haven’t sold many, but I won’t just sell to anyone as I want them to take care of the car.i even have a very responsible son that wanted to buy my 2002 Arctic Silver C2 and wrap it to make it white. Nope. Told him I would help him find a white one. I realize you don’t have any control once you sell, but I can at least try. Keep the great content coming Will!
I agree on all points. I’ve had 3 993’s and only sold the one I bought from a dealer. The other two are keepers for different reasons, but both were purchased from prior owner.
I bought my 964 Targa for a very low prize. The only must-have, was all parts had to be genuine and matching numbers. So I repaired the engine completely and let it built up with refurbished parts if necessary. Also the complete motor oil system. The gear box was in good conditions. So I built up my own car in fully original conditions. Finally I paid the same as I had to pay for a technical perfect car. But since this time I know every thing about my 964 and I know there are now hidden problems. Maybe an other look of purchasing.
Amazing vids and even across the pond in london all u say makes sense...would say on this topic we have some amazing specialist dealerships here.. ive been dealing with 3 legends since my 1st 911 in 1986... all three still going... all the cars ive owned still on the road... great vid sir!
I tend to agree with you, until this year I had not bought a used vehicle in over 30 years which meant I had to deal with new car dealerships in both Canada and the southern USA, for the most part my experiences were extremely frustrating, I would find a salesperson through colleagues and then engage them to help me procure the vehicle I was interested in, after that my experiences were all negative from the lying general manager to the less than honest “technical advisor “ at service intervals….fast forward to February of this year (2021) and I reached out to a local PCA member who had the near exact 993 I was looking for and “bingo” and absolutely brilliant transaction occurred. Even my experiences with the local independent Porsche specialist has been positive, go figure.
I agree there are good and bad private sellers and good and bad dealers. Had a 993 cab where the porsche dealer really propped up the car but as I got to know the 993 and found a good mechanic, the amount of things the dealer missed was insane...way more leakage than what their official porsche ppi said, pushed in rear bumper that was macgyvered back out, heck the ppi didnt even pick up on broken cruise control which is low hanging fruit. And they kept up the facade when i went back to get my free oil change. In the end they just didnt know the car. When I bought it, they kept saying how solid the car was but funny when I sold it, they actually had a conversation with the new prospective buyer (a big customer of theirs) and they described my 993 as "rough" to him......just doesnt sit right with me.
My strategy has been to buy it new knowing it will become a classic. I do plan to own this until I die, so be sure to look in the classified in the future for a single owner 993 Turbo. Be sure to ask for my decades of service records and all of the parts (which are all boxed up with labels and part #s) including the original turbo twist wheels as currently sporting BBS. Hopefully it will be a while.
For a new car I’d buy from a dealer and even then I’d choose carefully not all have good reps these days, but for an old Porsche however, I absolutely will not deal with a dealer again!
I agree with you . I have come to realize how heartless a dealer can be . They all seem to have one thing in common getting the most dollars out of everything they sell . And not just cars my wife will get pulled in to buying something at a Dept store and buy it because they have marked percent off or the other abused word ( on sale ) it’s sad because it’s a word to sell something without really lowering the price . Or it’s because they can’t get the cut throat price they wanted for it
Flippers/dealers add no value to our cottage industry other than to inflate car costs and raise my blood pressure. 2 days ago I see a sweet air cooled in Georgia for sale. 1 owner, all records from day 1. $60k, seemed like a very fair price both ways. Couple min later I get a hit on the vin from that car in California. The car is now for sale in CA. for $80k. The original owner's ad wasn't even taken down yet and the scavengers were already swooping in for the $$$$. O/T wasn't the green/tan launch edition colors? or am I thinking 997..
Auto dealers have been considered the most dishonest occupation according to official poles for decades-in fact in the top 5 of least respected occupations. It's that way for a reason. Having said that I have been ripped off by both dealers and private sellers, but mostly by dealers including a short guy with a mustache and a TV show. The most important thing I have learned about buying used Porsches in the past 30 years is to buy from someone who has loved the car, taken care of it well, has a service history, and hasn't molested it with go fast add-ons. I don't agree with you on your 2nd point. My garage is a disaster and that's partially because it's too small and is very much a working garage with multiple lifts and an inventory of parts, etc. People that have bought my cars got well loved, well sorted cars and no surprises.
Fair point about the condition of your garage. Along those lines, if what you say is true, I’m sure a buyer could easily tell what the focus of your garage is and would know they’re getting a well-loved, well-taken-care-of example. Thanks for watching 🙏🏽
Second the messy garage point. I don’t know if I’ve ever seen a family man with young children with a garage that isn’t in some sort of disarray. We have a 3 car garage and I have a nook for my little 3.5 hotrod, but the rest is full of bikes, scooters, yard tools, loading presses etc. My car is pristine and extremely well taken care of and my eight year old knows to give it a wide berth. Until we are able to build a house with a large detached garage/man cave what we have now is going to have to do.
Having had car dealers in the family for years, it is just another unit for them to sell. Kinda like can of beans or loaf of bread and not saying it is bad, it is their job to move product. The best part is any warranty will be through them, but we are talking antique classics and “as is” is as is beyond the Honeymoon. Being only a closet Porsche lover coming from Corvettes, I know more about the car than the salesman or the Dealer and would seek a Corvette Dealer and that is on a newer car. Porsche can’t be much different talking to a salesmen that is younger than than the car I am buying...
Market is really crazy right now. A bidder on an online site has purchased two Pcars (that I know about) and is bidding on another...This is not his “dream car”. He is turnin’ and burnin’ driving prices up. Unfortunate, but legal. Makes it tough and expensive to try and break into the air-cooled world. :(
Actually no, it's not always "as is". When I bought my used Porsche from the dealer, it came with a 30 day warranty. Which I had to use within 2 days of ownership.
These reasons apply to all used cars - don't they. Personally I feel the "Air Cooled" are way over priced / valued due to the recent hype and pile on to get one before they're all gone!! And as I moved up the ladder from my first Porsche 914 - the end of era 1975 2.0 back in the day; thru the fan cooled to the radiator cooled modern 911's - I find that air cooled were just noisy and a bit oil smelly in the cabin ventilation - not to mention lower powered across the board. That said, to each their own. Enjoy.
Awesome videos! I'm new to the channel just subscribed. Are there any specific Porsches that you would consider to be more "reliable" than others? I am looking into purchasing my first Porsche when prices go down on the grey market. I am working with a limited budget but I actually would rather prefer a fixer-up that needs cosmetic work. I'd love any recommendations you have for me to look into. Thanks
The older cars all have their issues but once they’re sorted they are quite reliable. I would look at an SC (1978 - 1983) with the right repairs and upgrades done to it or 3.2 Carrera (1984 - 1989)
I have no concrete examples of a sale to point to but I saw a clean white M491 targa on Pelican for $100,000 asking. Can’t recall mileage. They are rare (as you know) and amazing so it commands a premium over the other already-premium impact bumper cars.
When purchasing a luxury sports car that is at least 25 years old, its a big risk purchase, and it requires a specialist inspection to determine the condition of the car. Boutique dealers who specialise in air cooled cars are likely to have inventory of a higher condition standard. Join a Porsche Club, speak to the members, they will know of a very good car, and specialist maintenance centre. The big question is, why are you selling the car? In most cases these are appreciating assets
On the Porsche forum, many members post thread after thread that they paid for a "specialist" PPI inspection and it didn't help them one bit. They bought the car based on the PPI inspection and it was full of problems that should have been revealed in the report. Bottom line: inspect the car yourself and do not depend on anybody else.
@@bigmacdaddy1234 No PPI no matter how thorough is going to find corrosion of internal engine parts and neither are you. Ask me how I know. The op is correct. Buying these cars carries risk and you won’t know for sure what you have purchased until you open up the engine.
@@overbuiltlimited I never mentioned corrosion. I am talking about obvious things like a working air-conditioner. How does a PPI miss that? Or none functioning reverse gear?
@@bigmacdaddy1234 You’re right, a PPI shouldn’t miss those obvious things. My point was, as I said buying one of these carries risk no matter who does the checking. As you intimated, too many folks have a belief that a PPI is going to keep them out of trouble. It might, but it might not. The really expensive stuff is on the inside of the engine. The car can run like a top, have good compression numbers and blow no smoke and still have major internal problems that only make themselves known weeks or months after purchase.
I recently got an offer on my wrx that I couldn’t refuse from a dealer and sold it thinking I can finally purchase an air cooled Porsche for pretty much what I got for my wrx. Boy was I wrong. The last time I checked the prices for the air cooled 911’s a few years back I thought I can finally get my dream car. Do you think eventually prices for the 911’s will go down or will it be on the up from here on out?
That’s the $1,000,000 question. The % increase over the past 12 months (COVID tax) seems unsustainable but by the same token we wonder if it’s a sign of inflation? I’m not an economist so I don’t know but I feel your pain. Not an easy time to get in. I have been told by people who have been in longer to expect a stabilization and perhaps a small decrease but I am thinking that will vary by generations. Good luck!
Just had this one you see. Unfortunately it didn't work out, Now I'm at thar crossroads. I Loved the 1984, the beautiful weirdness of it, But at 997.2 Looks very nice and well.....reliable. What's your thoughts?
I had a .2. Yes, reliable but the motor sounded like a vacuum cleaner. Also had a fair amount of soot coming from exhaust which wasn’t problematic but just odd. I think it’s a characteristic of the DFI motor. I am air cooled all the way. I just prefer the analog nature of it but the 997.2 is a fun car also. Really boils down to personal preference. I have found my 86 3.2 to be exceptionally reliable, by the way.
I thought the same thing but the shop who has the transmission apart tells me it looks lightly driven. The issue was caused by differential bearing failure, possibly due to PO using the wrong oil. He doesn’t really know exactly why it went bad. At this stage, at least I’ll have a rebuilt gearbox. The motor is also in good shape, as is the body and the rubber. So hopefully it’ll be great once it’s all buttoned up.
