I took part in a double blind listing test about 6 years ago, where I was able to pick the cables on lifters at a rate well over chance. And so did quite a few other participants. The differences I heard were all in aspects like: soundstage size, depth, the musicians place within the soundstage, and other things related to spatial cues. The recordings I was able to hear the differences on, were of the type where all the musicians were playing at the same time, in the same acoustic space, where the recording engineer took good efforts to capture the natural ambience and spatial cues of the musical event. In other words, classical recordings. With rock and pop studio recordings, I could not hear any differences.
Trying to "hear" any differences with cable rising devices, one forgets to "hear" and *enjoy* the music itself. That's the downside of extremes in audiophilia...
me: "Why?" tweak: "It sounds better." me: "Explain how that works." tweak: "I can't explain it, but believe me." me: "I can't hear a difference." tweak: "There's something wrong with your hearing." me: "No, there's something wrong with YOU."
I understand this level of sarcasm. Fun to poke the box, right? However, you're not helping move things forward, and you're doing this at the expense of others. Perhaps a more productive discourse might be to say you don't get it, you haven't heard a difference - and in fact, you have never even tried it. Why because it's too silly and outside your realm to do so. That's absolutely ok. But do give some space for others. You might not have the kind of system where this would matter. Or, you do, and the small change isn't worth the hassle. That's legit and possibly helpful to others on this forum.
@@Paulmcgowanpsaudio Paul, you know as well as I do that there are uncountable opinions in any area --- cars, movies, stamp collecting, wherever and whatever. You have yours, I have mine, others have theirs, and this is one place where we express them, isn't it?
@@spacemissing Yup. Absolutely, and I encourage it. I just want to make sure opinions expressed are civil and informed. When someone writes that something does not work or has no effect and has never taken the time to actually try it under the right conditions, then I think it is incumbent on all of us to point that out. Why? Because we all tend to take a person at their word. Over time that word can become gospel. Let's just make sure the gospel of opinions expressed is a real opinion based on experience. If you taste something and don't like it that opinion is extremely valuable. If you read a book and don't agree with it, that too is valuable. If you express an opinion on that book but have never read it, that's what I am trying to curb.
There are so many of these tweaks that I've wondered if it is just confirmation bias ? But as long as you believe you hear the difference and believes it's worth it, then it is !
What a rabbit hole High end audio is. Lol. If you're trying to elevate the cables over power cables or other cables....sure, I can buy that. Otherwise if you're hearing a difference, it's likely confirmation bias/placebo effect.
Even if your floor is a copper ground plate, the very cheapest amp should dominate any capacitive effects. If you can hear a riser difference, l suggest getting a much better amp, such as a chinese Somy receiver.
Different heights have different effects, but when you get too close to the neighbour's floor, you will need cable droppers, not risers. The science is not exact at this time, MARK my words...
cement, carpet, hardwood floors all different - we know because we set up the same equipment and high resolution recording devices on all those surfaces and then had musicians and experienced recording engineers with brilliant ears do exhaustive a/b listening tests after which we concluded, yes there is a difference - oh wait, that never happened. - love Paul and PS audio but honestly, come one now.
Wait, if you didn't do any experiments, and you're saying only experiments can determine veracity, then how can you have any opinion one way or the other?
@@StephenBrennanGuitar I re-read it and you clearly stated "oh that never happened", indicating the entire process you described never happened. My English comprehension is quite stellar.
One of the conductors in the speaker cable IS grounded (although not the case in many Class D amps or bridged amps). The other conductor is closer to that than the floor. Without some kind of science, or at the very least some repeatable blind listening tests, it's unhelpful to suggest that lifting cables off the ground makes an improvement , subtle or otherwise. The problem with this kind of 'tweak' is that once one company starts to advocate it, others feel obliged to do the same.
Blindfolded tests should be useful if done objectively and fairly and all the parameters are disclosed. Lifting cables off the floor sounds like the step you take after all the other more important ones have been addressed. To me, the 1st item that makes for a lousy listening experience is a poor recording. Maybe AI will solve that problem.
Cable lifters are great because they allow to broom away the dust collected beneath the cables. In a dusty city like Buenos Aires this is an advantage!!! ;-)
There is certain audiophile insanity I will adopt into my system and it’s the insanity that only costs $6 at the dollar store. 6 plastic hooks with adhesive and my cables are off the ground
Lifters are so passé now - suspending cables from the ceiling sounds much better. Make sure you use the finest silk threads and non-magnetic, stainless steel pins for best results.
If the shielding was grounded and the cable fed from a high impedance source then the capacitance that the shielding introduced would cause a low pass filter effect BUT the output of a power amplifier is a low impredance source.
@@stevesmyth4982 I see, I didn't realize there was a correlation between shielding and capacitance. I'm quite a novice when it comes to electrical engineering. After a quick Google search I found this, _"shielding vastly increases capacitance. Because of the huge increase in capacitance when shielded wire is used, the capacitive lag caused by using shielded wire can corrupt the intended signals."_ I imagine _"lag"_ means the siginal is slowed. If that's the case, the cable would likely have similar attributes to a *much* longer cable meaning a more pronounced phase shift between lower and higher frequencies.
@Cody Jacques I think the lag you read about is what's introduced by a reactive load where the voltage and current become out of phase. If you find the wiki article titled Leading and lagging current it will explain but it's not simple. Screened cable has a certain amount of capacitance and inductance per metre dependent on the construction of the cable so a thin screened cable would be good for audio frequencies but not radio frequencies because of the losses caused by capacitance.
I have my speaker cables on top of the skirting boards (baseboards) only because every time I put them on the carpet the noise floor Rises. The thing is I've got woollen carpets which in fact shouldn't course any electric static interference. But there is a possibility it could be coming from the synthetic material of the carpet underlay.
The idea is grounded in science. Engineers understand that underground power lines have a higher total capacitance than overhead wires, due to being closer to other wires and closer to ground. Same applies to speaker wire - you lower the capacitance by raising them. Whether it provides a benefit to sound quality is up for debate and perhaps subjective. Makes sense that it could though.
Paul, for once I don't agree with you. Since a few weeks I am using Supra Ply 3.4/S. The shielding of that cable is connected on the Amplifier side to ground. This way it radiaton from the loudspeaker cable to for instance interconnects is limited. But my highly revealing Klipsch Cornwall also sound better. Airy, improved soundstage. And quiet passages are quieter.
Head -> Desk -> Thump… I did find urinating on my cables makes a difference, although only to my marriage and my dog. I love the cable riser idea, more splash.
I use 5 cm high plastic cups. Free & good enough to get rid of all capacitance you can think of. I have not tried to hear if I can hear any difference with or without my "plastic cups" but I've read about it and since it's "A Free Tweak" I did it and are happy.
I’m using plastic cups as well, things do sound ever so slightly different. I’ll try them for a month and remove them to see if there’s a difference. 🤫
There isn't any difference unless your violently shaking the cable like mad whist your ear is right up against the speaker ...Then the variation would travel and make it's way to the speaker variating it also, and pretty much it's more for the looks than actual making a difference. Also, your probably talking about capacitive coupling ground which usually people have isolators to prevent such things.
If I’m correct the AC power (including music) in a conductor also runs along the outside of the conductor as a magnetic field more so as frequency rises. If that is correct than a long portion of cable laying on a flat surface with a grounding potentially or a static field could change that magnetic field on the outside of a conductor. And higher frequencies would be affected more than low frequencies. I would also guess that the conductor’s jacket would make as much or more difference as a cable riser. Just a thought.
This video is about making the speakers look bigger than they really are. Nice CGI effect 👍😎🤗 PS: I have cable lifters for my phone power cord. It makes the electricity flow cleaner. I know this seems crazy. I paid $1295.00 for a streamer that fits in my pocket..😳
Paul, do you think it may be the same physics situation as with batteries and concrete? If you take a car battery and store it on the concrete floor, it will drain significantly in a matter of days.
Modern car batteries do not drain sitting on a concrete floor. Back in the day the rubber cased batteries could suffer from moisture off the concrete because of the porous nature of the rubber. Not the case anymore.
Risers are a totally snake-oil... there is absolutely no way you can hear a difference with that. If you are use them for cleaning purposes, then it's fine...
Why doesn’t someone that has ‘a real revealing system’ get an analyzer that ‘fits’ the cost and get a measurement. Like in real time tie strings to the cables and run them up to pulleys so they can be lifted up and lowered on the fly. I would think there are plenty of sensitive microphones that could do the job. Put the mystery to rest 🤦♂️
I think this video from Veritasium helps shed more light on what’s going on. Derek explains misconceptions about electricity traveling down a cable and I think the principles discussed explain why lifting a cable off the floor would make a difference: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-oI_X2cMHNe0.html
It's more likely to make a difference at extreme high frequencies and yet in all my experience in TV servicing I never saw the TV reception from the antenna outlet effected by placing 75 ohm unbalanced coax cable or balanced unshielded 300 ohm ribbon cable near the floor !! Never made any difference !! Just more audio foolery designed to put doubt in peoples minds in order to get them to spend more on rubbish that doesn't benefit them !!
The wire gets a little electromagnetism when current flows through them, so they shouldn't lie next to each other either. It could be that the electromagnetism is reflected back into the cable if it is lying on the floor
@@IliyaOsnovikovwhat changed was the tonal rendering. The 3d reproduction in the sound was better. But to be honest they weren't big changes, more the dots on the I
@@Mark-lq3sb he didn't hear the difference because there isn't one to hear, and if he did then it has nothing to do with preferences and everything to do with imagined psychological placebo effects and confirmation bias. Anyone claiming that they can hear the difference in the same system with the speaker wires on the floor vs. suspended a few inches off the floor is a fool or mentally ill.
I suggest Alstom. This French brand builds the TGV trains which have excellent, state-of-the-art air suspension systems for high speed. This will make a difference on high-end systems as well.
I make my own cable lifters. I've tried many different materials and came to the conclusion that blocks of ice yield the best results. Granted it can be a bit of a hassle in summer time, but the difference is very noticeable. Try it.
I use cable risers and route my cables directly in front of the doorway so anybody who enters will trip and fall. It increases the sound stage. I've been able to successfully choose my setup in a double blind test 100% of the time.
There is a level of improvement in audio where it’s more about our brain creating it than the audio gear. When we believe something should sound better we often feel we can hear it, even it’s not real. Our brain works like this. I’ve also come to experience that I hear more details after drinking something with caffeine. Especially, I hear more details after drinking a Red Bull.
@@TheDanEdwards The human brain has great imaginary powers. People of every religion believe their particular religion is the true one and that they can talk in their prayers and inner thoughts to their particular God.
It is quite depressing to hear the boss of a maker of audio equipment promote VS like this. Presumably PS Audio employ qualified engineers, they must be cringing in embarrassment. Reading the comments it is clear Paul has his followers who hang on every word. Paul is preying on those who are profoundly ignorant of basic science. However, I am sure the majority of Audiophiles can spot non-scientific nonsense like this. This must be damaging to the company reputation.
I run my 'speaker cables through a five light year long cylinder filled with anti matter and it makes a parallel universe of difference to the sound quality. Get outta here with your cable lifters!
I've never heard such a load of crap! There is no scientific or audio evidence to prove it. I'm waiting for claims that cables must go downhill to the speakers.
Talk about “FLOOR NOISE”, I don’t think that’s what they meant!!!😂😂 But a bunch of idiots fell for it, to the point to the part where they lift cables off the floor with stupid shit. DO YOU ACTUALLY think or believe that the cable KNOWS it’s at a different elevation? How does it know the floor from the ceiling? Or the WALL? GTFOH
It's not that crazy if you think about it. If speaker cables aren't shielded and you run them along a large flat surface then you're going to experience differences with the cables grounding and inductive properties.
"Give it a try" might be the best audiophile advice you can get. Unfortunately, it's difficult, especially lately, to find specific products on display locally (NAD, I'm looking at you).
Amazing the comments of those that haven't mentioned if they gave it a try. Paul said use anything to lift them up. No cost, just time on someone's part.
Paper coffee cups are perfect. Cut a little V on each side to hold the cable in place. If you like the effect build something that suits your decorating style. If not chuck them.
@@user-od9iz9cv1w exactly! So all the sarcasm posted here doesn't really make sense since cable risers aren't being promoted as something fantastic and you must buy them.
Give it a try = give it a buy. $$$ Sure enough even if the return rate was high you'll hook enough suckers who convince themselves with a placebo effect from "listening with their eyes" that it'll make the grift worth it.
Although I’m open to this idea, there must be some type of reasonable explanation for the effect. I could buy for example that carpet may have static electricity that could disrupt the signal. But how would a wood or concrete floor make a difference? They have no electrical properties that I’m aware of (correct me if I’m wrong!). I’ve heard it could be the metal nails for the flooring, but that really seems like a stretch. But concrete??? I get that shielding cables can be bad, as that has a direct electrical explanation. And how would wood blocks holding the cables up be any different from a wood floor?
A couple of youtube videos from last year about electricity and wires might provide a possible physical mechanism for cable lifters: “The Big Misconception About Electricity” and “How Electricity Actually Works”. The first one introduces the strangeness and where the common water-pipe model for electricity and wires might let you down. The second one is a followup video attempting to address the explosion of messages generated from the first video from people whose model was broken. 😝
would be interesting to vary some parameters: do eg coax or Kimber Cables react the same way as telluriums with spaced out conductors do? Kimbers should have much less interaction with magnetically lossy materials such as steel inside the concrete. would cotton braided cables be less sensitive because they might be less susceptible to any triboelectric effect against a carpeted vibrating floor? I find it is ridiculous to use a certain misinterpreted picture of “Science” to claim there can only be exactly zero influence: there are some aspects of physics that are or were not understood for long time such as mass: why do 2 masses exert an attractive force between them? we know it exists amongst planets or a sun and planets, things and a planet (gravity) but one could argue there is no such thing as an attractive force between Peter and Paul because there is “no evidence”, tho txtbook physics says there is, textbook physics however can not at all explain the effect, it can only describe it, but without understanding the mechanism behind gravity one could claim Peter and Paul are exemptions of gravity since it is not evident and measurements are inaccurate and not executed in double blind studies.. The discovery of the Higgs Boson btw changes that to some extent, and so we see that real science is a very different thing and should never be confused with textbook physics as it aims at properly measuring suggested effects even if they are of tiny magnitude, and tries to use existing or establish new theories to describe them, and to integrate this into the “scientific building”. So it can never be textbook physics that can prove the inexistance of a tiny effect, many properly executed measurements however might lead to some clarity.
@@pcm9969 Hopefully you can find them; I tried to post links but messages with links seem to be silently deleted. The videos are on the Veritasium youtube channel.
I have made cable risers from pieces of oak about 8" high. My floor is concrete with oak parquet. The floor contains water tubes for underfloor heating. After raising the speaker cables (Kimber Crystal 24) I notice more extended highs, better imaging and faster transients. My system is very revealing with Exposure XI/XII/VIII and suspended KEF Reference Three Twos and Townshend Supertweeters. The Exposure is fed by a Topping D90 DAC and Primare CD32. I can definitely recommend it if your system is revealing. For bigger improvements isolate your speakers from the floor, clean up your power supply, defeat RF interference and use excellent signal cables. All the best, Rob in Switzerland
Do they work on balanced cables with XLR plugs between a DAC and an Active speaker? Surely it must have a huge effect considering the much lower power of these signals and higher relative interference?!! Oh wait ... NOTHING was said about the scientific/engineering effects of cable lifters here ... OK I will stop taking the p-s here.
Why do the cables sound different when on the floor? Is it just in the basement, on concrete, what if the concrete is a suspended slab? How can putting wood blocks under your cables to keep them off a wood floor help? There is just so many variables this has to be BS. Think about it, you are saying that my house made of wood with a suspended wood deck (above the basement/ first floor) that has a hardwood flooring on top of that, I should use wood blocks so the wires dont touch the wood floor. What if I just ran a 2X4 under the full length of the wires would it be like just putting them on the floor? This is just crazy.
@@Mark-lq3sb You are so right, I just skimmed through the rest of the comments, and it has been said. I am pleased there is at least one other great mind here too...🤣
Yup! The cable risers are the last tweak you put in to your system. When the vibration control under your equipment is sitting as it should, you might delve into cable elevators. It may make a difference, but not always. I’ve been lucky enough to try out the German InAkustik cable risers on a number of different speaker cables, different rooms (and floors!), and on everything from highly revealing to regular gear. Sometimes the risers do bring a certain clarity to treble and midrange, sometimes not. It all depends on the room and the systems. There are no rights or wrongs here. If you hear it you hear it (not calculating for bewerages or anything else). What I have observed though is that you need to have regulated AC power in the system, or else I can’t hear the subtle differences the risers bring to the system.
Great answer. Consistent with my experience. Could I pick out the difference in an A/B test? Heck no. But several times I have listened to music and felt there was something a little off. Sure enough, the cables had fallen off the lifters. Put them back on and sound felt right again. In my case, carpet over concrete slab. A paper coffee cup is all you need.
@@TECHNICKER_CzYes, it’s all in our brain. If there was anything to this, it would be easy to prove it by a simple null test to identify the differential signal and judge if it’s audible. The engineers at PS Audio can easily do this. Let them debunk this myth.
@@TECHNICKER_Cz This is subtle enough that it could be. But the little chunks of wood will stay under my cables because real or imagined, I like the sound my brain perceives.
@@CVLova Perhaps. I am not sure what one would measure. Distortion? Wouldn't it be miniscule compared to driver distortion? I think a lot of changes we hear are so small that it gets lost in any of the typical measurements. Our hearing evolved to determine where the lion is in the cave measuring miniscule timing and phase info. Dogs can smell disease long before doctors diagnose it. There is something there that they can detect, but we fail to build a machine to match their naturally evolved senses.
The reason why cable risers dont make any audible difference is because..... . . . . . . . . your have a low resolution low-fi system & you cant hear the difference
The total capacitance of power lines is higher underground than overhead, partly due to being closer to earth. This is well understood science and naturally applies to speaker wires too.
