Caller: What About Left-Wing Anti-Semitism? 

Ah, you're just as bad over there in the EU, buddy. Maybe even worse.

The major issue I have with Zionism is the fact that it resulted in thousands of Palestinian farmers forcefully removed from lands that they had lived on for many generations.

Thanks, I really wished you had more time in the video, as this is a subject I have a really hard time consolidating because, whoo boy is it super complicated and messy, and ooh boy is their no shortage of 'sides' seeking to use that aspect in bad faith. So, your Zionist Ideology, what you described, is evolved from the Labor Zionist movement. A nationalist movement in the form of wanting a sovereign country for the people (the very simple very understandable not bad nationalism that is permanately overshadowed by authoritarian nationalism). And everyone I know and what I've seen indeed support a two state solution. (Itself an incredibly complex topic). Now plenty of non bad faith leftists will have issues with the lands taken and people displaced to do this. It's a valid point, but... it's the same valid general point with any of the other nations you listed, and with the United states, and the native american population. But like those, that genie cant be out back in the bottle. It's been nearly a hundred years since Israel became a sovereign nation. That's the facts of the situation, and the real world situation we exist in today. Israel is a sovereign nation. But there is also a fascist Zionist movement (Literally, self proclaimed, fascism was part of their doctrine) and its very fascist idea of 'Territory Maximalist'. The ideology of this movement is, like what seems like the rest of the world recently..... Increasingly raising its head through abusive actions of the right wing parts of the Israeli government. There will be people who only understand this as the only form of Zionism they have ever been made aware of. They need to be informed, so they can distinguish, and not accidentally spread anti semitism.... as well as identify the next part of this, and not accidentally support them. There are absolutely anti semitic bad faith actors taking advantadge of this situation, and informed leftists need to be aware of, able to identify, and absolutely reject and rebuke them, and their attempts to use abusive actions of Israels government, as a dog whistle for getting people to carry anti semitic messaging, against jewish people. Very similar and I am pretty sure directly related to this, would be more american anti semitic movements like NOI, co-opting these events for anti semetic dog whistling as well. And then of course American Racist groups co-opting THAT for anti black and Muslim racist dogwhistling. Its..... exhausting to trace, and your perspective here is greatly appreciated thank you. I now have quite a bit of digging to do on this DSA.

None of the counties you mention, except Isreal, are settler colonies practicing apartheid.

@@maxworth4687 You must have never heard of the atrocities the three countries I listed committed, then and now--that, or you're selectively choosing to ignore them, which again points to a double standard.

@@PityMe atrocities are awful, but not the same as being a settler colony, not the same as apartheid.

Not me! 👻 jk

Tell that to the left because the left are great line blurers.

True. However, it is a bit more complicated than that. I've encountered a few self-identified leftists who were Holocaust deniers, and bought into anti-Jewish conspiracy theories.

@@BobbyU808 Does your comment have a meaning?

@@hmmcinerney - Not really. Why?

@@negationf6973 I support Palestinian human rights, and the vast majority of people in that movement will strongly call out any antisemitism. It’s reprehensible and unacceptable. You can’t fight human rights abuses by acting the same way. It’s particularly repugnant when Israel uses the suffering of so many Jews as a shield against criticism of their abuses.

We should also be honest about it being an aberration and not representative of left-wing views.

@@Ragitsu aka “not all” - for sure, as long as it’s ALSO not suppressed and dismissed in discussion. Again, complicated.

Very true. Don’t let lefties dismiss this.

I'm a zionist and still support human rights for Palestinians (and everyone in the middle east, obviously!!)

I can only talk about myself, as a pro-Palestine, I hate Israel as a state(as it is behaving nowadays) but not the people...I also do that for coutries like Russia, US, China, Turkey, etc... I personally think that if you hate Israelis(as people) for their liders decisions(as a gov) then you are one of those that McKenzie is talking about

Exactly

Or you’re explaining the misconceptions people have about criticism of Israel and how some conflate it with being against all Jews. Your comment makes zero sense.

What if it’s “...I’m Jewish”?

I cant be racist because im black? Or sexist because im a women? True or..?

The DSA is officially in support of BDS and therefore anti semitic as an organization

@@bk138gt6 Why is BDS antisemitic?

@@aswaney7449 the end goal of BDS is the end of the only Jewish majority nation on the planet. It targets no other nation, despite dozens of countries who are far greater offenders than Israel

@@bk138gt6 So start a boycott against the Saudi government, and Brazil, and China. Please, no one is stopping you. In the United States I have a right to boycott whatever and whoever I want. That's capitalism.

@@bk138gt6 And that's where I think you're wrong. You're misrepresenting the purpose of BDS. The actual purpose is to stop the illegal settlements that Israel is doing by boycotting companies that support these settlements, not destroying Israel as a nation. Nothing antisemitic about it. Strawmanning something with which you disagree never helps your cause. In fact, it hurts it the same way the boy who cried wolf hurt his flock in the end.

Some also believe that there is a Jewish worldwide capitalist conspiracy

Yes, but obviously the caller feels that there is anti-semtism that uses that movement to hide their anti-semitic views. Saying, "I can't be anti-semtic/racist because .... " is just untrue. Doesn't matter your own personal religion or relationship to Judiasm or Israel.

I'm the caller. Criticism of the government is different than saying it shouldn't/doesn't exist when the same standard isn't applied to other, similarly-created countries. Also, with regard to DSA, my problem isn't with their more pro-Palestinian stance, rather, that they make no attempt whatsoever to give the Israeli/Jewish perspective and do not acknowledge that Jews are also indigenous to the land, which I find hypocritic given their strong pro-indigenous rights stances.

@@PityMe "give the Israeli/Jewish perspective and do not acknowledge that Jews are also indigenous to the land" if so, then why can't non-Jews also have a right to return? Hitchens short take: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-2us2iOilc3E.html

@@PityMe I definitely think there are left wing anti-semites and I'd like to help you refine your arguments. I think you're drawing a false equivalence by saying the creation of Egypt and Palestine are the same as Israel. You will receive confused looks and pushback from people on that, because it's obviously not the same. Drawing lines like the British and French did to create countries definitely happened, however most of those places didn't have a couple million people move in from Europe and elsewhere after WW2 and all of a sudden run the place. That being said, I totally agree that if a person thinks that Israel shouldn't exist when it clearly exists, you can call them anti-semitic because it seems like they are calling for the destruction of Israel. I just don't think you need to bring up that other countries were drawn at the same time. It doesn't help your argument and it doesn't really have anything to do with peoples' criticisms of Israel. Although as I'm typing this I realize you're saying that people say Israel is illegitimate because it was drawn on the map after WW2. Well, most borders were drawn on the map by the Brits and the French so I don't know how that is an argument against the legitimacy of Israel. Another problem I know people have is that they think what they see as a western, liberal democracy, that receives a lot of support from the US should behave better. For example, it's reasonable for me to expect better behavior out of France or Italy (these days, at least) than from Saudi Arabia. I would never refrain from criticizing some bullshit that Italy did just because I wouldn't criticize Saudi Arabia for doing worse things. It's not even hypocritical. One is a liberal democracy and one is a medieval, theocratic dictatorship. I think that's how a lot of people view Israel. They view it as the Italy in this situation that should obviously behave better than Saudi Arabia. Another example is that I love the US, but I criticize it because I want it to be better and I hold it to a much higher standard than I do other countries (this draws the ire of conservative friends of mine that think I hate the US). I am willing to have my mind changed on it, but I don't think the claim that Jews are "indigenous" holds a lot of water. My perspective on this is that yes, Jews have been dislocated over the course of the last 3000 years and I know Jews face discrimination everywhere they live (especially historically in Europe and the Muslim world but also today) and it's shitty to not feel at home or be safe anywhere. But at some point if you've been gone long enough, you're not indigenous. If after many hundreds, if not thousands, of years, a few million people show up and start running the show, they're going to be seen as colonizers. This would be anyone's perspective if it happened to them. Like how far back can you go and still be considered indigenous? There are most likely people that moved from Iraq/Iran that had been displaced since the Babylonian exile. That's a very long time.

According to republicans, yes. They always equate legitimate criticism with anti-semitism.

Well, let's answer that with a series of questions: -Do you deny the Jews the right to self-determination? -Do you deny the Jews as the indigenous people of that land? -Do you judge all Jews by the actions of the state of Israel? -Do you use the language of "once the oppressed, now the oppressor?" -Do you believe that Jews use the Holocaust as a get out of jail free card?

@@anonymousanonymous7250 You can answer most of those questions by just reading what he wrote... No need to be such an asshole.

Do you think Palestine has had a hand in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict or do you think it's blameless?

@Los Matadorès Isn't that pre-emptively accusing somebody of racism? "The fact you can’t mention anti semitism on the left without people screaming ‘Israel’ is a prime example" Has absolutely zero to do with his question.

Thats the problem though. You dont get to just change the definition of something you had nothing to do with lol. Zionism is only an indiginous rights movement. It is about us having a right to our ancestral homeland. That is IT. It has nothing to do with elitism or globalism or hatred of palestinians who almost every israeli Prime Minister has bent over backward to make a deal with them but they said until every last jew is dead or runs away screaming we wont be happy for decades.

" having a right to our ancestral homeland." Ashkenazi Jews have no ancestor in present-day Israel. Genetics has shown that they are Russian converts to Judaism. But that they are not genetically descendants of Jews who left Israel 200 years ago.

@@xXDarkxIdealsXxZionism isn’t a one-sided idealogy. Just like Black Power isn’t a one-sided idealogy. You have secular Zionism, religious Zionism, libertarian Zionism, conservative Zionism, and Christian Zionism for Peace’s sake.

@@troriskthe khazar theory has zero proof attached to it. The only reason it’s as popular as it is because they’re two-three scholars who openly support it. Mass conversion to Judaism isn’t even possible.

@@trorisk That is a lie Askhenazi Jews have DNA linking them to Israel where as most Palestinians even according to many Palestinian elites of Hamas are Saudi and Egyptian ancestry. Likewise it wouldn't matter anyways as the vast majority of Jews living in Israel are not Ashkenazi but are Sephardi and Mizrahi Jews aka Jews from Spain/North Africa and The Middle East.

@Juanito G that’s not entirely true, and that doesn’t at all justify it if it were

@Juanito G Blaming natives for the reaction to colonialism is kind of nonsensical. Leading Zionists knew what they were doing, and knew what the reaction would be. www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/quot-the-iron-wall-quot

@occupyanewparadigm Pretty much the whole rest of the world has decided colonialism = bad, except for China, and a few other countries.

@occupyanewparadigm Rofl. Well, that rules out all colonialism in Africa, I guess.

White Evangelical Christians are complicit in Zionism too. Perhaps even more.

True. 😂

@Otto Wels oh yeah Im sure. I used to watch him until I realized what an ideologue he has

We must be reading a different comment section. The one I just read is just a bunch of people shooting down misconceptions like criticism of Israel is anti Semitic.

@@americaninsurgent4403 I don't think that criticism of israel is inherently antisemitic. There are plenty of reasons to criticize it obviously. But to dismiss the historical context under which it was created and the existential need at the time for the Jews to have a safe haven is antisemitic. And of course criticism of israel is very often used as a cover by antisemites. Antisemitism might not seem like a big deal in America since it realtively minor there but it is VERY REAL in Europe and even former USSR (where I'm from). For many diaspora jews outside of US immigrating to Israel is the only way to "relax" and feel fully accepted

If you cannot say that the very establishment of the state of Israel was an injustice to Palestinians, without hesitation. Then you are proving the point yourself.

It depends on the critic and the language they use. Full stop.

@@mikesmith-pj7xz Criticising Israel for illegal settlements and running an apartheid state is seen as anti-semitic. Which is ludicrous.

@@mikesmith-pj7xz That's on them; criticism isn't inherently prejudiced. Go muddy the waters elsewhere.

@@StuntpilootStef that doesn’t answer the question. But points for trying.

@@Ragitsu I didn’t say criticism was inherently prejudiced but the criticism of the inherently prejudiced is.

rest in peace

@Juanito G Bullshit

Many people don’t know what apartheid is; it means “apartness” or segregation. Apartheid is what is practiced in Palestine and the Islamist countries surrounding Israel. They have ethnically cleansed their territories of Jews and seek to “wipe Israel off the map and drive the Jews into the sea.” Israel, on the other hand gives all its citizens the same rights whether they are Muslim, Christian, or Jewish; no citizen is segregated or disenfranchised regardless of his religion or race. Their are Muslim Arabs in the Israeli legislature and on the Israeli Supreme Court. That’s not apartheid.

Sounds like he’s not a Chabad Lubavitcher, that’s an orthodox sect that has some shockingly racist beliefs.

@Juanito G Because it is all bullshit. It is simply not true. Palestinians essentially live in open air prisons. They have less freedom of movement, constantly subject to checkpoints, suffer regular power outages, way worse healthcare and the Israeli's regularly simply nick some of the little land they have left. Is that better, mr. bulshitter?

Yes, it def is when it's a higher standard.

Do you mean the new winner of their Presidential election?

I bet he won't. Remember, he supported the coup.

I'm happy they got back in power, poverty went down a tone while they were there... and the coup leader was especially despised (and used police to repress the population).

@Thomas Sankara there is no other left! x) PS: sankara!! x)

This is correct. But you must apply it to Palestine too. The 1947 Palestinian war was largely an Arab nationalist cause. Just look at all the list of countries who got involved

Indeed it is. Many jews are critical of Israel/Zionism

@@seriousbees it's the same bucket!

@Martin P there is the identity aspect to this and the confusion between Jewish identity and the need for an authoritarian and segregationist state like Israel. I don't care if they believe Israeli have more "right" to that land.. it's more about how they explore and abuse the Palestinians. And like all authoritaristian states they have organized propaganda efforts... every "major" country in the world has organized institutions that function only to improve, defend and project their image abroad. In that, Israel is no different than USA, China, Russia, EU, etc etc.

while I support the right of anybody to move where they please without these bs visas, I also don't think lebanon had people from abroad move in and take a lot of the land, the arabs of israel aren't exactly being irrational in their anger, I think the topic should be when will it be official that israel(or whatever they decide to call it) is a binational states(ideally also strongly secular)

@@lucapresents4790 I don’t know what that has to do with the point I made. Any problems to do with Syria and Lebanon were created by the French because it came under their mandate after the fist world war. You will only get an agreement in the region. when the people backing both sides threaten to pull the plug on them.

@@lucapresents4790 The Arabs in Israel are indeed being irrational as they are blindly following the conspiracy theories that both Islam and terrorist organizations like Hamas teach them. Their own Quran and Hadiths even teach them to hate Jews.

​@@lucapresents4790 The Quran and Hadiths also tell Muslims to destroy Jews.

War crimes of other middle-eastern countries seem far less likely to be ignored, no?

@@legion999 We don't pump money to "other Middle-Eastern countries" the way we do with Israel, yes?

@@legion999 Other middle eastern countries are (rightfully) called the authoritarian hell holes they are. Except when they start cozying up with Israel. Like Bahrain etc(which is so unpopular it literally has to hire foreign mercenaries to its own protesting citizens)

Too funny

I agree

Very privilege statement to make. Have you asked the 800,000 MENA jews why they ended up in Israel?

@@matthewjschwartz94 bruh I’m not saying Isreal shouldn’t exist I’m not that crazy. In America I get asked either to defend isreali war crimes or support Netanyahu and his administration and vote for Trump. As if I have some sort of loyalty to isreal. If someone went up to me and said isreal should not exist I would be like wel there is a reason to its existence as its necessary to provide a save Haven for many of the Jews throughout the Middle East and even helped saved a lot of Jews from Europe who fled there. The only crazy online leftist ask me that. Whenever I tell some stranger I’m iewish IRL I’m asked about isreal in a way where they assume I owe or have some loyalty to isreal and that I will always defend the current government and practices going on. Isreal as a country is nessesary.

@@eligoldman9200 I agree with you. I'm not saying isarel hasn't committed war crimes, because they have. I look at Israel the same way my friends of Italian ethnicity look at Italy. Many people here do not understand the situation going on in the middle east. Leftists who want to stop wars and call for less interventionism are the same ones calling for the destruction of a state. I'm just calling it as I see it. In no way do they make me feel safer here

@@matthewjschwartz94 oh I was always well aware of the situation I’m also aware that Netanyahu has been been horrendous and has been working with Russia against US interest and is successfully avoiding being indicted for fraud at the moment and Spent years trying to break up the Iran deal to the point of making up info that Trump then used as justification to do it. From a political perspective I despise the current administration and Netanyahu. No one seems to understand the Middle East but I feel as a Jew that i should at least have a basic understanding. Let me tel you a secret. Online leftist are loud but don’t let that fool you they are maybe like 8% of America and to be honest I feel more hate from the right. I’m either a token or accused of my people blatantly controlling then world. Or I get told I’m not a real Jew because I do not support trump by white Christians.

@Los Matadorès We don't pump money to any other nation the way we do with Israel. Nice try, though.

Yeah but when some lefties condemn Israel even when its not relevant to a given discussion it is fair to question their motives.

Speaking out against Israel’s oppression of their neighbor is lying. Palestinians are being oppressed by their bellicose Palestinian government and its Islamist sponsors for their own venal interests. Palestinians voted to elect their President, Mahmoud Abbas, to his first 4-year term in 2005. He then cancelled all subsequent elections and is now on his 16th year n office. Imagine if George Bush were still president because he cancelled elections once he was in office. Palestine is an authoritarian country ranked 117 on the Economist Democracy Index, *after* Kuwait and Mauritania. Israel is ranked number 28, between the US and Belgium. Blaming Jews or Israelis for the problems of oppressed Palestinians is ignoring the facts. They need a democratic and secular revolution to realize their full potential as a people.

@Halon's Razor It's good old fashioned corruption. Don't deflect.

@Tino I think you read their comment wrong. They're arguing that Jews are no longer discriminated like lgbtq are

Caller here. I didn't have much time to speak, so I couldn't give a thorough argument. Egypt, Pakistan, and India (all created as a result of the British Empire) definitely have the same, if not more, baggage than Israel. Zionism is just self-determination for Jews who are indigenous to the land. Palestinians also are indigenous to it, which is completely valid in peace talks, but being anti-Zionist means anti-Jewish indigenous rights, a form of anti-Semitism. Most American Jews are for a two-state solution that also recognizes that other Semitic groups are native there too. Opposition to the existence of Israel and/or saying it shouldn't/doesn't exist is anti-Semitic since the standard of what qualifies as a "real country" isn't being applied fairly.

@@PityMe tbh I don't know very many people who argue that Israel shouldn't exist. Also, are you sure that most american jews support a two state solution? That has not been my experience in the slightest. I have however been to plenty of speeches in which Zionists threw stones and accused jews opposing Israeli oppression as not being really jewish. The president of the Jewish museum is berlin was forced to step down when he spoke sympathetically on palestine. I also grew up in the Jewish community of Houston and know very few jewish people who have anything but hatred for palestinians and very much so do not consider palestinians indigenous. The vast majority of Zionists I have met very much so view it as incompatible with peaceful coexistence and outright refuse a two state solution. Edit: so I looked into some polling. So most american Jews do in fact support a two state solution to some extent. My next question becomes why I don't see them as much in the discourse. I imagine part of it is the ethnic/religious divide. I know that many liberal jews I know do not identity as Zionists bc they use that term explicitly for radicals that oppose palestine inherently.

@occupyanewparadigm Land from Palestinians with illegal settlements.

Ooo...here comes the stones in the comment section. I hope you have a machine gun to respond.

@occupyanewparadigm if that helps you sleep at night.

@occupyanewparadigm Seriously? Even though they were there before the second World War? And where do you go to court as a Palistinian to remove an illegal settlement? The Hague?

@@omowhanre Plenty of us have some. It also helps that the facts and international law agree with our position.

?? What do you mean?

Yes there was. 2 in fact. The Kingdom of Israel (1050 BCE - 586 BCE) and the Hasmonean Dynasty (160 BCE - 4 CE)

@occupyanewparadigm Descended is irrelevant. If they didn't live in the region for a couple of generations they're not indigenous anymore . Most of them moved there during the diaspora.

This is textbook antisemitism.

There was never an independent Palestinian state.

He's referring to people who use opposition to Israel to mask their hatred of Jews. I'm a Jew, I'm opposed to the actions of Israel's government, doesn't mean I think Israel should be driven into the sea.

@@absolutless What about jetted off to Bora Bora?🤔 or Boca Raton?!😜😁😉

@@absolutless You said what I've always felt pretty well. I have family in Israel who hate Netanyahu and hate what the country is doing but I don't personally blame them for what's happening

@@absolutless ofcourse not, neither do I. Does one believing the nature of Israel's annexation of levant lands as immoral and illegitimate mean that they hate Jewish people or see them as inferior? Here's the problem. Zionists can literally accuse anyone of "masked anti-semitism" as an excuse for condemnation of Israeli policy, and there's not really much you one can do to prove otherwise. It's unfalsifiable, which is why it's used so effectively to stifle political critique, let alone resistance.

Caller here. Zionism is just self-determination for Jews who are indigenous to the land. Palestinians also are indigenous to it, which is completely valid in peace talks, but being anti-Zionist means anti-Jewish indigenous rights, a form of anti-Semitism. Opposition to the existence of Israel is anti-Semitic since the standard of what qualifies as a "real country" isn't being applied fairly.

so... you ARE antisemitic?

'I'm not racist I have a black friend'

The right wing fascists in Europe seem to be aligned with the right wing fascists in Israel. That’s retarded; I thought the right wing in Europe wanted to prevent mass Muslim immigration and they are aligned with the same people who have made this region into a refugee factory?

@@nuclearcatbaby1131 Yes.

Anti- Israel doesn't have to be anti-Semitism, but anti-zionism is always anti-Semitism

@@yaakovneeman4205 why is anti-zionism anti-semitic? Zionism is an ideology, you can be against it without being a bigot.

Zionism is the ideology that Jews are fundamentally native to Israel/ Judeah (Hence the name Jew) and that they have the right to The Land. Denying Jews the right to their native land is bigotry. Just as denying the Palestinians the right to their native land would be bigotry. One has just as much a right to The Land as the other

@@yaakovneeman4205 I completely disagree, your thousands of years old ancestor's land is not your right, if you were to apply that logic to every group the world would basically not function. Another contention is that Zionism doesn't recognize that Palestenians have the right to their land, it only recognizes one state, an Etho-state for Jewish people only, everyone else maybe comes in second, it's a bigoted ideology that relies on some ancient book to support it.

@@abdmzn I just found this old comment feed. I want to preface it with I would never deny Palestinians the right to their land, I think that they have a right to their native land equally to Jews. If Palestinians we're denied their right to The Land I would fight for them too. Zionism is not based on The Ancient Book, rather the idea that what makes Jews Jews is that they ethnically originate from Judea. That is the defining factor of a Jew, and is an integral part of Jews' identity

He did discuss it. He talked about how ridiculous and unbelievable the story is. You’re a grade a moron if you think that’s actually a credible scandal and not a desperate last ditch effort to recreate the buttery males scandal of 2016

@@bink6778 ridiculous? Hunter got jobs only because of his father and casually are jobs with China and Ukraine.

Sounds like you're the crazy uncle. LMFAO at trolls.

You don’t want Democrats to talk about Trumps kids enrichment from daddy’s presidency .... we will find 100 times more stuff and they will be real not conspiracy theories

Hunter Biden's laptop is jewish? OMG!!!!!!

So the fact that you've been accused of something a thousand times = you're automatically innocent? You destroy the cause of the Palestinian people by associating it with anti-semitism. There are Israeli Jews even who could be your political ally, but your racism towards them will blind you forever.

@@absolutless No. I never said I was racist at all. What I said is the application of Anti-Semitism today is very broad. It no longer means being racist toward Jews. It is used so frequently to described people who oppose the Israeli government's policies that the term has lost it's meaning. It no longer means being a racist.

You are an antisemite.

These apologists think their left wing even though they support a far right group like zionists lol

Would love to hear your definition of Zionism

@@matthewjschwartz94 Check first line of Wikipedia. Zionism (Hebrew: צִיּוֹנוּת‎ Tsiyyonut [tsijoˈnut] after Zion) is both an ideology and nationalist movement among the Jewish people that espouses the re-establishment of and support for a Jewish state in the territory defined as the historic Land of Israel (roughly corresponding to Canaan, the Holy Land, or the region of Palestine).

@@Brahmdagh I see nothing in that definition that has anything to with leaning left or right

@@matthewjschwartz94 I know right, what could possibly be wrong with that.