Can a Christian Kill? | Fr. Gregory Pine, O.P. 

I think it’s important to recognize that the original commandment in Hebrew is אל תרצח. “Do not murder. Hebrew has separate roots for various types of killing. By simplifying it to “thou shall not kill” it creates space for all types of confusion and begs questions that wouldn’t be there otherwise.

Bruh that first scenario was insnaely specific 😂

Thank you for an excellent presentation on the theology of Christian self defense. As someone who carries a firearm every day, I think it is critical for such people to have a clear understanding of what is and is not morally justifiable self defense. I have shared it across all our social media.

For self-defense and to protect others from harm then yes per the Catechism.

Good video. Judging by some of the comments so far, I don’t think people are watching or care to follow what it says. It’s been Church teaching that you have a right to defend yourself against an unprovoked attacker (sometimes, that does result in death which is acknowledged). I’ve heard some Priests say you have a moral obligation to defend yourself and your family. For just war, I don’t think we fought a just war in a long time.

Jesus, hear my prayers these past three years have been difficult on me I am weak. Give me guidance. Please come back soon I don’t know how much longer I can hold on. As a single parent things are hard on me both of my sons are autistic and my hours to work are limited because I’m now homeschooling them. I’m constantly struggling to provide the basic necessities for them I’m so ashamed. I suffered an heart attack and I’m battling lupus I’m overwhelmed. Lord heal me. Father God hear my prayers. I constantly struggle to pay my bills and struggle to provide groceries. BUT I KEEP FAITH. Even though I want to give up. Jesus please take the fear from my heart. Father God it is you that gives me the strength to keep going. I praise you Father even as I fear homelessness please continue to give me strength.

It’s thy shall not murder. You’re welcome

When faced with the issue of war, I can speak from extremely practical experience that sorting the issues out - or even identifying which isues are critical to the discussion - is no simple or easy task. In 1966 I was in my second year of college seminary (the dividing point then between Minor and Major seminary) and the discussion was often a bit heated, and over a long duration. Several of my friends, like I, who were not going to proceed to the Mjors had an extremely practical reason for the discussions - it was called the Draft; and we either had to continue on in some other college for two more years or deal with either being drafted or applying for a conscientious exemption. Several of those who left applied and were granted the exemption from military duty; and one went to Canada. The rest of us served.

This is wonderful, very well worded. I've been meaning to educate myself on the terminology of just war. The Lord said, today's the day!

From what I have studied regarding the original commandment, it originally did not say Thou shall not kill. Instead, before it was mistranslated it stated Thou shall not murder. Murder and killing are not the same thing.

Thank you Fr. Pine, very timely.🙏

Great video, thanks for covering these topics!

I love the creative name for your book about the virtue of prudence, Fr Pine 😅

It's interesting to learn that before one nation can rise against another, that they have to go through the usual channels of the UN and whatnot. I do wonder how all of this applies when one is talking about third world countries with governments and politicians that can be surmised, beyond reasonable doubt, to be deeply corrupt. If one could successfully argue that there is no higher legal authority to turn to, could one justify killing without permission? I'd definitely like to see how Thomism plays out in countries that are further from ideal as I feel Thomism concerns itself strictly and exclusively with an ideal State.

Fr., what do you think about this new teaching? “the death penalty is inadmissible because it is an attack on the inviolability and dignity of the person” (2267. CCC).

The better translation of the commandment is Thou Shallt Not Commit Murder. Defined as the wanton taking of life with no purpose. Just look at Leviticus and all the rules for how to care for animals, including their deaths for food. So, taking life while in the uniform of ones nation is permitted, as opposed to those who commit acts of war without the cover of a true nation (better defined by the Geneva Convention as nonuniformed enemy combatants) is a violation of the Commandment. Also, taking the lives of those who refuse to abide by the morals and laws of the nation in which they live. Taking the lives of animals in the wild for food, is also permitted. As taking the lives of stock animals, so long as they have been properly husbaned. And taking the lives of pests and vermin that pose a real threat to lives, stock animals, and property is permitted. If no such real purpose exists, then the taking of any life, falls under the auspices of the Command, Thou Shalt Not Commit Murder. Yes, frying ants with a magnifying glass is murder. There is no justification for it. It is just further proof that we are a weak and sinful people in need of a Saviour.

"Don't you kill a boy by comparing him with another who is cleverer or more skillful?" J.Krishnamurti Series 111 Chapter 32 "Killing"

As others have said it is, thou shalt not murder, so you are in error, also capital punishment is not acceptable, we already deserve death so you are telling me that a murderer deserves death more than you do, if you judge one by the law you are judged by the same law you judge with, we are not under the law we are under grace, by the measure you measure it shall be measured to you, the moment you judge you are judged, you fail to understand,

Yes, as long as they do it with kindness.

I strongly suggest reading Hinds Feet on High Places by Hannah Hurnard. It was life transforming spiritually for me plus deliverance and inner healing. We need Jesus to redeem us, the Holy Spirit to transform us and the Father’s love flowing into you from all three. When God looks at you the only thing He sees is what you are missing about His experience of Him. ❤

We all saw what happened to defenseless people in Gaza and West Bank

Good video, Father. I will add, Fr. Pine begins with a discussion of private killing. Such killing is illicit and in violation of the commandment thou shall not kill/ the natural law according to many Church Fathers. Augustine suggested it may in principle be immoral (Evodius) while Aquinas used double effect to differentiate two different intentions. Private killing (rixa) differs from recourse to the sword by a political community. Thus, the political community (and its authorized agents) may kill when it would be illicit for a private individual to kill, including war and captial punishment. Traditional just war had several causes of war, not only self-defense, for the analogy of the attacker and double effect breaks down when compared with war. Soldiers fight offensively, not only defensively. Thus, double effect does not seem to apply in war between just and unjust combatants, but does apply with discrimination and the accidental killing of civilians. This important given recent restrictions on captial punishment.

So what happened to the diorama? Was it okay?

It's "Do not murder." Not "Do not kill." Honestly, I don't understand why the Catholic church does not use the proper word... It's almost like someone wants to cause confusion on purpose.

how can hold to the order of love that places love of self before love of stranger with christ teaching to turn the other cheek? what did jesus mean? what was he prohibiting?

Doesn't say "Thou shall not kill." It says "Thou shall not MURDER."

it's misinterpreted for control of the masses plain and simple

What did Jesus mean when he said if someone strikes you on the cheek, then turn and let them strike you on the other cheek?

Would taking down a nazi sign in a public area be an example of stealing if it didn’t belong to you? Or, is the item so evil, it must be removed?

Isn't it because God's law is «do not murder» ? As in «do not commit adultery» instead of «do not have sex»

TONE DOWN THE BEARD

The original text says murder not kill.

Now, try and get leaders in the Church to make a list of all the times that 'just war' has applied to historical events. 🤷🏻‍♂️

It is allowed but there is rules of engagement and should you break those rules you are in big trouble. Jesus says "Sell your garment and buy a sword", but with it you must be brave, courageous and humble and should you disrespect anyone even your enemies you will lose your Armor of god, you would have to offer forgiveness and a peaceful surrender if not then you must defend yourself or the sheep. Joan of Arc and Braveheart are 2 examples of Christians who wore the armor of god, its something that is only used when tyranny oppresses freedom and it seems that god has a liking for righteous military or rebel type leaders. in history there is more then just Moses and Jesus but they arrive anytime they are necessary, unfortunetly they are always prosecuted by the churches and kings of their time. would we be able to recognize one today or in recent times or would they be called a devil worshiper or another name?

Warmongering seems to be fine. In modern war, civilians get blown to pieces as much as the combatants, so, there is no more just war.

What if your attacker is innocent? I know this sounds contradictory, but it is possible for someone to attack you without being conscious of their actions (i.e. mental illness, a hypnotized person, etc.). Are you allowed to kill this person even though he is innocent of his actions?

WARNING TO THE WORLD FROM GOD: NEVER READ JOHN 1:1 WITHOUT READING JOHN 12:48-50, WHICH PROVES JESUS ONLY SPEAKS THE WORDS OF GOD. TO REJECT THIS IS TO REJECT SALVATION. STOP CALLING GOD AND JESUS A LIAR; THEY ARE ONE IN AGREEMENT IN ALL THINGS (JOHN 10:30).

Can u explain why the Catholic Church allows child marriage. Before 1917 the church allowed 12-year-old girls and 14-year-old boys to get married to someone no matter how much older. A 12-year-old is only 3 years older than Aisha when she had sex with Muhammad at 53. According to the church, it would been okay if she was 12 with a 53-year-old. Even though Aisha didn't have a period yet she could have had a period at 9. A 9 and 12-year-old are still going through puberty. That is hypocritical to say it's not okay for a 9-year-old but it's okay for a 12-year-old. Even though the church raised the minimum to 14 for girls and 16 for boys they still have no age restriction. Meaning a 14-year-old and a 50-year-old could marry. Even if it doesn't happen often the problem is the church allows it to.

Call no man father here Father of heaven isn't the priest

WHY has this garbage translation stood the test of time for centuries? A 13:00+ minute explanation for what should be “thou shalt not murder”? Way too overcomplicated. FIX THE FREAKING TRANSLATION!

We are called to never take another human life.

I am curious... if Cardinal Sarah became the next Pope, issued a new Holy War to retake Jerusalem and all of Israel, and re-establish the Kingdom of Jerusalem, would that be justified?