Can ANYTHING Be Worship? 

It's true that "worship" etymologically means referring to the "worth" of something, but it's not how the word is understood in English now. If it were, then in the military, we would talk of enlisted men worshiping their commanding officers. Rather, they "salute" them and give them "respect." To say that they "worship" them would be regarded as treating them as deities, which they don't. That said, the point here is not the history of the English word but rather what is the act that we do toward God and not toward anyone or anything else. In the ancient world, it was clear that there was an act you do toward your god. And Israel did that same act toward their God. And so Christians do that same act with God-in-the-flesh -- Jesus Christ. BTW, I misspoke at one point and said "Micah 1:11" when I meant to say "Malachi 1:11": "For from the rising of the sun to its setting my name will be great among the nations, and in every place incense will be offered to my name, and a pure offering. For my name will be great among the nations, says the Lord of hosts."

I grew up Hindu. When I became Christian, I was willing to just accept whatever it was Christians were supposed to "do" for worship. I walked into a non-denominational church, it was kind of set up like a lecture hall or auditorium, and someone was singing and playing the electric guitar on stage. I just sat down, disoriented, but ready to accept. The man took off his guitar and started preaching - and I thought, "Oh, that's the pastor!". He was about my age (30 or so), and was very kind. Believe it or not, he eventually ended up pointing me towards the Orthodox Church in order to observe ancient worship! So I went to the Orthodox Church, and here's the amazing thing - I wasn't disoriented at all. I automatically knew what was going on, in the most basic sense. I could just tell visually, coming from another ancient religious tradition - it was obvious to me that there was sanctuary up front where only clergy would go and perform their ritual, offering prayers, incense, and other offerings like fruits or flowers (in this case bread and wine) to God, then bringing it back out to be distributed amongst the people. I did not know anything else specific to Orthodoxy - but the pattern of worship was just so obvious to me, it was familiar. At the non-denominational church, they believed that communion was symbolic - a cracker and grape juice. It felt very strange to me, because it felt like some quaint thing that Jesus wanted us to do, so out of respect for him, we do it - really sentimental, and obedient, rather than anything else - seemed kind of outdated, even with the updated version of cracker and grape juice. At the Orthodox Church, with the bread and wine actually becoming the body and blood of Christ - the entire ritual significance of the worship, offering, and distribution of holy gifts to be received in solemn gratitude by the faithful - made far more sense to me. In fact....growing up, when Christians tried to share the Gospel - they would say stuff like, "Jesus died for your sins, then he rose from the grave - so now, if you believe in that, if you believe in Him, then you can be forgiven your sins and rise from the dead, too!" It made zero sense to me. But believe it or not, I think that if, instead, they had explained it in a ritualistic way - if they had actually linked Jesus' sacrifice with communion we can take at church, that would have actually made sense to me. It would have been the first glimmer of understanding, I would have needed to delve in deeper into that entire mystery, but it would have been a better starting point for me.

I was a former church drummer in a Hispanic Protestant church from the age of 12 to 24. I liked playing and I loved my band mates, but I never had a spiritual connection to the music. It felt goofy to me to be playing Christian salsa, Christian reggaeton, Christian rock etc. In contrast, growing up I loved Gregorian chant and would often be moved to tears. Now I am a Byzantine chanter in my antiochian orthodox parish. I am so grateful to God and our holy fathers for preserving this true orthodox worship.

Fr. Andrew, a lifetime ago I was the worship leader in an evangelical “rock band” church, went to a Christian college, dropped out, became a stagehand in the music industry, and considered myself an atheist for about 10 years. I’ve slowly traveled from Jordan Peterson to Jonathan Pageau to you and Fr. Stephen with Lord of Spirits, Amon Sul, and Whole Council of God and other AFR podcasts, and a couple of weeks ago I became a catechumen in a beautiful Orthodox Church here in LA, “Joy of All Who Sorrow”. Thank you for this message that struck a personal chord, and thank you for all of your work! God Bless! Khristos voskrese! El Messieh kahm!

Some time ago I remember hearing a Protestant pastor saying "ANYTHING can be worship if you think about God while doing it." What I found striking about this statement is that he didn't back that up with any reasoning, scripture, or quotes from anyone. He just said it as if he expected that it was as evident to everyone as the sun coming up in the morning.

I play the keyboard at my church on stage. For the past couple of weeks I've been looking into Orthodoxy because of my curiosity. I began to discover many truths in Orthodoxy and found myself agreeing with their beliefs. Eventually I started to see a lot of problems in my church that I am still attending and found much lack in comparison to the early church and Orthodoxy (Which I know the Orthodox Church is the historical church). I can't help but feel utterly empty and sad inside when I'm playing keys now. To think that these were the type of songs that Christians have always sang without any reverence. My heart weeps every Sunday. The only reason why I am not attending an Orthodox Church right now is because I'm only 16. I still have to get my license. I plan on telling my family about me wanting to attend an Orthodox Church soon. I hope all goes well. Please pray for me. My non-denominational church saddens me because of how unhealthy it is. I grew up with a horrible view of salvation that it was something you obtain in the past and have to hold onto. But this failed me if I sinned because then was I still saved? So I always searched for a profound spiritual experience at a church service that would ultimately change me. This also failed. I was never taught how to live a Christ like life and quickly fell into an addiction to pornography for three years roughly. I despaired myself for so long trying all the things I was doing before to save me and came to the realization that none of this was working. Finally I just simply started setting a daily rule for myslef that I would read and meditate on the scriptures every morn and pray twice a day diligently. Now I've been clean for over six months glory to God. Sadly to put it bluntly my church hasn't helped me in many regards concerning a healthy Christian life though I am grateful for the good parts it has given me. Thank you Father Andrew for this video about what worship really is. God bless.

I was a keyboardist for the worship team at a non-denom for about 10 years and there was always an emptiness that I couldn’t explain and felt guilty for feeling. I stumbled upon orthodoxy just a few months ago (I had never heard of it before) and have been hooked on reading about it and almost helplessly drawn towards it. Your story about being a stage hand and having control over an audiences emotional response with a technique hit me like a ton of bricks. I did the same thing (and probably still could) with the keyboard every week. Certain chords in certain voicings can elicit a very specific response. I don’t know where my journey will lead me, but for the first time I am truly just trying to follow Christ. This video really touched me and challenged me as well. Thanks brother.

A similar situation drew me to the Orthodox Church: I was attending a non-denominational church and the worship team played “Before He Cheats” at the beginning of the service. They often played a secular song that tied in with the sermon/ passage, but I never found out: I walked out of that church and, the next day, attended the Orthodox Church down the street. (It was the Monday before Pascha 2021.) I was not brought up in any church but remembered how much my aunt loved her Orthodox Church and had just started dating a nice Orthodox man.) I never looked back. That first service felt like “coming home” to the worship I’d been craving since seeking Christ in my early 20s. I married that nice Orthodox man last summer and am thankful, in a sense, for the jarring country song that led me out of that nondenominational church and into the Orthodox Church- home.

Having family in non-denom churches and watching the change over the years, I can also say with certainty that there are many people who simply do not go to a church at all because at one time they did attend but that church taught them that all forms of worship are acceptable to God. Therefore, the logical conclusion for many is to read their Bible's at home and "worship" in their own way. Because why not, the pastor said this was no different that coming to church. Churches that teach this will, in 10-20 years find that the ONLY people who attend the services are those who particularly like the style of music and presentation while everyone else feels comfortable to simply go do whatever they enjoy on a Sunday and call it worship. Well, I shouldn't say "everyone else" because many of those (me included) eventually go to become Orthodox or Catholic.

In conservative Protestant churches (so like small reformed churches, not mega churches) the idea of “anything can be worship” is often used as a way to combat the popular evangelical misconception that the “singing” part of church is the only way to worship. This conflation started happening in the megachurch church model particularly when “worship music” became a recognized genre of music. “Let’s all stand for worship,” “Worship was a little loud today,” “I’m on the worship team” could all be things you would hear in an evangelical church, where “worship” is being used interchangeably with “the singing part of church.” So in conservative Protestant circles (that see themselves as trying to constrain and correct the wayward and loose megachurch evangelicals) they will often say, “Remember that anything can be worship, it’s not just singing! Being a mom can be worship, driving to the store can be worship, being nice to your boss can be worship!” they are trying to correct a very specific problem by actually creating another problem! Neither view gets the correct view of worship. I was tossed between these two extremes and I always knew there was something missing. Smelling the incense, listening to the chants, being surrounded by icons, partaking of the body and blood of Christ… now that’s worship. I get it now.

There is a subtle, but frightening element of considering worship as self-expression. That is such a dangerous mindset - it takes the focus from God and places it on you.

This has been such a manic area of study for me since coming to Orthodoxy. Countless hours talking, debating and reading about this subject.

I grew up in a oneness Pentecostal church and it was wild and coordinated chaos. I remember people running up and down isles, speaking in tongues, jumping up and down, people crying and even "tongues interpretations." The preaching was often fire and brimstone and geared to work people up. I remember early in my 20's, I began to question things and thought everything was just weird and off. They called themselves apostolic. I left after interestingly doing research to witness to some Jehovah's Witnesses that came to the church and thought I'd look into my church at that time as it was something I never did. It was an odd twist where I tried to debunk some JW's and ended up seeing how I was wrong. This lead me to a local evangelical church that was far better than the chaos of oneness Pentecostalism and I was the drummer for the band there. While I grew in Christ, I longed for something deeper especially after some difficult life events where I walked away from church altogether. When I came back during the pandemic, I leaned about the Orthodox Church online and decided to attend a Liturgy. It took one Liturgy to blow my mind. I kept attending and never looked back and this lead to me becoming Orthodox a little over a year ago. It was a long winding road but I'm home now and so glad because it literally changed my life.

As a Traditional Latin Mass attending Catholic (former Calvary Chapel Evangelical) I found this very edifying and informative

Father at min 24:35 I believe you meant to say Malachi 1:11 not Micah. As someone who came out of a non-denominational mega church , I appreciate this video. Very helpful, especially for those who have not listened to your Lord of Spirits podcast.

I'm quite new to all of this, and am learning a lot from you. Newly listening to the podcast as well. Thank You Fr Andrew.

My journey in learning this actually started in my Protestant Bible college. I had a class called Foundation for Christian Worship, and my professor pointed us to 1 Corinthians 10 to basically show that the "purely memorial view" of the Eucharist doesn't work (using "memorial" in the typical Protestant way). Then working in Bible translation, I saw more about how the sacrifices under the Torah worked and how many were eaten, how the sacrifices were food. I began to piece all of these things together, as well as how atonement is about purification, i.e., expiation. I appreciate you and Fr. Stephen De Young for taking me deeper into this in the Lord of Spirits podcast. Edit: After sharing this video with my wife, I think it might have been helpful to make a distinction between worship and veneration and how you are using the language versus how the Scriptures do. That is, actions you seem to be saying are not worship would fall in the category of proskynesis, biblically speaking, which is often translated as "worship" in the Bible. So I think that mismatch of language might have been a little confusing for someone not familiar with those linguistic distinctions.

definitely right about breaking up service types - this seems to have become the norm in even more conservative reformed type bodies also.

You’ve blown my mind… I can’t believe Protestants take all of this away from their faith….. thank God my eyes have been opened to the orthodox faith

At the end of my time as a Protestant, I was getting into AC/DC, Metallica, and all them. As I started to question praise band worship, I fixed on the idea that they did that style of music because "it connected with people." I had this hypothetical dialogue with myself: "Why do we do worship this way?" "Because it connects with people." "But it doesn't connect with me!" "But it's not ABOUT you!" Then I'd go on to the further proposition that if the praise band did a hard rock worship song once or twice to "connect" with me, they wouldn't do it very well, and it wouldn't make me happy at all. As an Orthodox Christian, sometimes I can barely stand the liturgy. If the choir gags on the next line of a hymn, I grind my teeth. Sometimes I just want to be somewhere else. Even so, it's not about me and I get out of it what's in it for me because I was there. Also, as an altar server, I'm on the worship team. Don't have to sing a thing. It's great.

No God instituted clear ways he wants to be worshiped. Notice the same prayers over and over being used in different liturgies and vespers. The Trisagion and Prayer of Thanksgiving are constant

I grew up evangelical, and I've had a lot of experience hearing contemporary Christian music in church. It may have been entertaining as a teenager, but it didn't take long before something felt off about it. I wanted to be able to worship God in a reverent manner, but that just felt impossible in the environment I was in. To make matters worse, I was on the receiving end of some very horrible treatment from the pastors of a non-denominational church I attended at the time (I won't share the details here, but it did make me feel utterly condemned), and the contemporary style of the services made me feel like I had nothing to fall back on. I definitely relate to your observations about how so much of this kind of "worship" is very manufactured. I'm an Orthodox Christian now, and the centrality of the Eucharist is a huge part of what drew me in. In fact, Justin Martyr is my patron saint, and his writings on the Eucharist definitely played.a role in that.

As a 'baby' orthodox, this was SO educational. Thank you!

This connection between worship and hospitality is amazing. Thank you! I suppose you could say that all hospitality is influenced by worship, that the Imago Dei warrants special recognition. And hospitality is best defined by the desires of the guest. It strikes me that hospitality in some cultures is more ritualistic, at least than in USA. And knowing the base expectations of some cultural ritual does make the interaction less awkward, and more hospitable, than a completely freeform engagement It is telling that when I Google "worship as hospitality", I only learn how to make my contemporary service more seeker sensitive. And incense is a great thing too. I hear scent is the sense most strongly connected to memory, and it's the only sense that clings to you when you leave. I could probably think about thia all day. I may.

There is a book called snapping that talks about this idea of playing into the emotions of people at specific times of church or a cult. It goes a lot into how cults brainwash people but it mentions something similar to what churches do when they play on emotions.

These videos have been great.

I really enjoy the vibe of these videos.

Really wonderful explanation. Thank you for this!

This is great video covering an important topic. 👍

We might say that the Protestant sense of worship was set in a human centred way when its understanding of the sacrifice of Christ required the rejection of all sacrifices except those of praise and thanksgiving for what He, God, had done on the cross. When this residual hollowed out gospel focus was progressively lost, largely through a highly individualised consumerist notion of worship, then all that remained was "how this makes me feel." Then the mega church was born, tbe worship of oneself and the manipulation of the collective "experience."

Great explanation of worship ☦️Thank you

Another great video Father

Thank you father for edifying us. God Bless!

Excellent topic & talk

This is good. Christ is risen!

Thank you Father, Xristos Anesti 🙏

Christ is Risen! So much beautiful and rich information! Thank you for your teaching.

Thank you for these words Father. Peace and blessings from the West :)

What a great video. Leviticus 10: 1-2 comes to mind. Where they offered the Lord "strange fire".

Excellent video, I liked your definition of liturgy. My Bishop always said that liturgy meant communial work, as it is a service done for God, but i like your idea that it is communial in the sense of it being a public works project and not a work done by the public. I can see why modern thinking would confuse the two. 3 components of worship: - Sacrifice (Incense included) - Hospitality to God - Prayer In every Prot Church there is always one or more of these lacking.

Great video! I like the thumbnails with your face more! They seem more personal

Thank you father.

Great point about the sacrifice of praise in Hebrews. That language of a “mercy of peace, a sacrifice of praise”, not only is it used in Hebrews 13:15, it’s also used in the Holy Anaphora immediately following The Creed, and in Leviticus 7 when describing the peace offering.

Thank you for sharing. I’m a convert catechumen until I get baptized next month so I’m still learning and until your video, I did not realize that I have only been truly worshipping God Sundays at my church. I didn’t realize we are to make sacrifices to him daily and burn incense as sacrifices to him morning and evening. I’m going to buy incense this Sunday after Divine Liturgy.

Glory to God ❤

Is the key word "anything YOU WANT"? The sacrifice is costly and painful; it is, basically by definition, NOT what you want. Giving a sheep is giving your own flesh, since you were going to eat the sheep. If worship is whatever I want to do, by next week it will be nothing. A sacrifice of praise does at least cost you time and breath, and possibly dignity, depending upon how much of that you think you have.

1:44 Andrew Stephen Damick - Stage Hand for 10 years. 3:40 Immediate Experience, from Lighting, in the moment. 4:44 Remembering being at a Megachurch, making people having an emotional moment. 5:48 Is that what Worship is? 6:07 “Sermons are worship” 🗣️ “People getting together and singing songs.” 🎤 “Getting together for a beer at a bar.” 🍻 7:03 “Worship is doing religious looking things about their God.” 7:33 Does worship have an objective value, separate from personal taste? 8:20 The Scriptures. 8:49 Worship in The Book of Genesis, Chapter 4. Cain - Grain Abel - Animal 9:36 Cain’s worship wasn’t right. 10:33 Why is Cain’s offering rejected? Cain himself is not living his life right. Cain is the problem, not his sacrifice of grain. 11:34 Every single ancient culture has worshipped it’s gods through sacrifice. 12:21 “worship can be whatever you want It to be.” No. 13:06 What is important about Sacrifice to God? + Food 13:55 Everyone was offering sacrificed in the ancient world. It wasn’t about • What they sacrificed • What way they sacrificed * The Spirit to Whom they were offering The Sacrifice is what is different between Christianity and other worships. 15:17 + Hospitality + Incense, purifying the space 16:08 + Desire to be in a Good Relationship with A god/gods. 17:06 + Becoming alike each other 18:17 Worship is Hospitality Not all Hospitality is Worship. 18:30 Hospitality offered in worship is a highly ritualized affair. 19:30 Lifting up. 20:17 It’s worship to God. 21:06 “Do this in Remembrance of Me.” 22:20 Orthodox Sacrifices. 22:47 Whom You Worship matters. 23:43 Incense. 26:56 The Divine Liturgy. 27:41 Work For The People. 29:11 You can’t just arbitrarily worship. 30:20 Sacrifice of Praise. 31:15 Let My Prayer Arise. 33:00 Going all the way. 34:45 We do what He wants.

It's a huge subject. Very good points, I am studying it now. Geoffry Wainwright's "Doxolology" is a great systematic theology on christian worship. Music is NOT worship. It can be used in worship.

Thank you

Hello Father, thank you for this video! It was very informative. I have a follow up question in regard to prayer, specifically at home. When we pray before our icon corners at home, should we be lighting candles and burning incense? Christ is Risen!

Being honest, Pascha is amazing. All aspects of it, but some of these components you're talking about are in the midnight service as well. From the start the service in the dark to the distribution of illumination from the alter (distribution of candle light), to a prosession that has all the lights and candles lit when we return to inside the Church. We have to be careful about representing the physical side of this argument. Intent is where the problem truly lies. Where is our heart in what we do. Christ is Risen

It bothers me that Tommy Green, ex-Sleeping Giant, having refently converted to Orthodoxy, still calls his rock music ‘worship’ and engages all the tropes of Christcore punk rock as though he were still a Protestant. He really ought to reassess this situation.

I think this is where Protestants have an issue with Orthodox Christians “worshiping” icons. In response to them you might quote Inigo Montoya: “You keep using that word *worship*. I do not think it means what you think it means.”

my answer is no. not everything is worship. that is a gross oversimplification of something which - because it is so transcendent - must resist all attempts at reducibility.

This was helpful, thank you. Is the idea of prayers being “like” incense but not replacing it the same idea behind Romans 12 where it says to offer our bodies as a living sacrifice?

Worship is defined by God. Unless you provide God the worship he requests, you are not offering worship.

As Christians, we must worship God in Spirit and in truth, on God's terms, not ours.

If everything is worship then nothing is worship

Fr. Andrew: Can anything be worship? Fr. Stephen: …….No.

“Worship” is like grafting on to any particular ideology. We sacrifice our time, money, and attention to graft on to an ideal and make it manifest, regardless of the morality or veracity of the ideal in question. All plants grow (worship), but they don’t grow the same. All humans worship, but they don’t experience the same results, depending on the ideal being worshipped.

Wow

For me it’s Holy Communion, the body of Christ, the blood of Christ ✝️

You talk here and elsewhere about incense purifying the people. You also say in episode of The Areopagis called "An Areopagitic Miscellany" that there are different kinds of purification. What kind of purification does incense accomplish in a person? I shared this with my wife, and she had a big problem with that part and asked, "What does incense purify that Christ's blood does not?" Can you help me understand that?

“I’m having a big feeling” 😂

Very interesting subject. Worship is a big part of Christian life. Father, do you know the regulative principle of worship? Have you some thoughts on it?

Psalm 100 : “Worship the LORD with gladness; come before him with joyful songs.” Doesn’t feel like sacrifice is really in play here.

Great beard. I’ve just become Orthodox. Is growing a beard as an orthodox one of the steps in the ladder of devine ascent? Thanks.

Joe Heschmeyer made a video very similar to this a while back. I think if i showed it to my Protestant friends, i wouldnt have any Protestant friends lol

Seeking worshipers who will worship in spirit and truth…?

Yes it can. I start the day praying to my kitchen table - and also my Wicker shopping basket. Both icons are full of mystery and wonder.

☦🛐🌹

What is worship? A two evangelical friends of mine and i have been discussing a definition in relation to the Orthodox Church. Its been difficult to pin down.

I really like this video and this conversation, and I think you make a lot of great points about worship, especially regarding the relationship of historic practices to hospitality. I would agree with your initial rejection of an experiential understanding of what worship is, though I think your summary of the mainstream position on worship as "people doing religious looking things about their God" is not a fair or good faith summary. Below, I'm going to push back on some of your conclusions and argue that anything can in fact be worship (I'm not looking for a fight, I'm genuinely interested in your response). I want to start with that same passage about Cain and Abel. You point out that at this point in the Bible there are no instructions about how to worship. I think you're exactly right in interpreting God's explanation that "If you do what is right, will you not be accepted?", as meaning that the content of Cain's sacrifice was not the problematic factor, the content of his life was. What I don't understand though is why, having made that point, you then focus on the fact that both Cain and Abel brought food, and begin your exploration of right worship by claiming that "the idea that something else [other than sacrifice] could be defined as worship is a very modern idea". I would say that it's not modern, it's from that same verse we already discussed - "doing what is right" is the worship God wants. I see this idea borne out again and again in many later passages in which God explicitly rejects sacrifices in favour of right living and right relationship (e.g. Psalm 40:6-8, Jeremiah 7:21-23,or Hosea 6:6). A call to prioritise right living over right ritual is at the core of several prophets messages. Right ritual is good, it is there to lead us into right living, but when we prioritise the instrument over the outcome, it ceases to be worship (you also make this point(12:42), about God punishing improper worship, not for mistakes in the ritual, but for problems of attitude and motivation). In the new testament, we see the early church lean into this idea, for example when Paul urges his readers to become living sacrifices in Romans 12. His emphasis is on renewed thinking, discernment, and behaviour. It seems that he is continuing the message of the prophets, that true worship is found in living ones life in a way characterised by obedience to God. Not in a ritual. In fact, he takes it further in chapter 13, with the idea (verses 8-10) that "whoever loves others has fulfilled the law". I.e. living in service to and love towards ones neighbours is the obedience God wants from us. Of course, the ritual of the Eucharist is also part of our obedience to God. One of the many great things about it is how it enables & encourages obedience, through the clarity of the instructions (in this way, it plays a similar role to that played by the old testament law for the tribe and then kingdom of Israel). It's harder to be obedient in worship by loving ones neighbours than by carrying out a ritual. So the ritual is there, in part, to train us in obedience, in preparation for the harder part of our worship. So, in conclusion, I love your final statement that worship is about "doing what God wants" i.e. obedience to Him, but I find your interpretation of what exactly He wants to be very narrow, and with an undue emphasis on ritual. I would agree that the role of song, and religious "experience" are widely misunderstood, (and susceptible to the type of manipulation & abuse you mentioned at the start of the video), though unlike you I would argue that they can be (and often are) a part of worship when they are expressions of obedience to God, and love of neighbour. In this sense, I would affirm that "anything can be worship" if it is done with the earnest intent of obeying God. Sorry for writing such a long response! I hope you (or one of your viewers) has time to read it & respond. Like you, I find this topic to be both very interesting and very important.

Protestants think prayer, music, and Bible study or readings are “worship.” While commendable, they are not! Worship is the offering of the acceptable sacrifice to God. As a Catholic, worship is what happens in the Mass. Yes, we also pray, have music, Bible readings, teaching, and sermons. They are praise, admonition, instruction, etc. Many are touched emotionally, but feeling emotion is NOT worship.

I wish you had explained what worshipping in spirit and truth is, Father. I've heard this being used as something that is the opposite of liturgical worship which uses material things. A very neoplatonic reading but that is what I see many do. they just jump to the false dichotomy of physical vs spiritual.

Nadab and Abihu thought that what they were doing was worship too, until the LORD incinerated them on the spot. They were sincere, but sincerely and fatally wrong.

I think part of the hang-up is the etymology of "worship." I was always taught it is "worth ship" or "expressing the worth" of something. By this reasoning, any act could be an act of worship if it expresses the worth of Christ. How is sacrifice the only expression of worship?

old career: “dressing all in black” new career: …ok, hold up

Lifting up prayer as incense according to Saint John Chrysostom: The psalmist therefore asks for his prayer to become like that sacrifice defiled by no blemish of the offer, like pure and holy incense. He is asking us to offer prayers that are pure and fragrant ... the incense even if itself is fine and sweet smelling, but gives particular evidence of its fragrance at the time when it is mixed with fire, So to is prayer fine of itself but becomes finer and more sweet smelling when offered with ardor and a glowing spirit, when the soul become a censer and lights a burning fire. The incense should not be added unless the brazier had been previously lit....Do likewise with your own mind: first light it with enthusiasm and then offer your prayer. Thank you for the explanation, father. Made me look up interpretation of Psalm 140 (141) according the Church fathers.

Protestantism has done a remarkably successful job at getting people to move away from liturgical sacrificial worship as commanded by Jesus Jn 6 51-58 leaving people with a synagogue with prayer & teaching. No sacrificial offering, no “church”, the work of Satan!

Father, I need help! I've grown in a Lutheran family, but actually I've been atheist all of my life. In the last years I have been through a learning process that is resulting in my conversion to Christ, and while looking at the different theologies I am feeling a pull to Orthodoxy. The problem is that the closest Orthodox Church from me is about 200Km away, so I have no way to be part of the community, and even if I have the ways to try living a good private religious life, I'm worried about what are the consequences of not being able to get guidance from a priest, partake of the sacraments, and have the embrace of a community in general. Do you have any advice on how I can pursue my faith and grow despite these challenges? How can I stay connected to the Orthodox Church and its practices when I am physically distant from a parish?

Can anything be worship? Sure. I didn't say who or what was being worshipped.

❤️☦️🇺🇸

Continue reading Genesis 4 and you find Cain's descendants were the first to create musical instruments. It's interesting that contemporary Christians are making offerings to the Lord using the things that were created by Cain's descendants and calling it worship. I imagine Cain's original sacrifices were also the things of this world, built to improve social reputation, status, and earthly wealth and not to bring one closer to God. A common theme in the scriptures is of those who choose the world over the kingdom of heaven facing judgement for violating God's commandments. All the way down to the Pharisees.

Is he saying God doesn’t need our worship? But we need to worship God?

I completely agree that a rock concert isn't Christian worship, I am not trying to be disrespectful, I am a practicing Orthodox Christian, but aren't the incense, the ornaments and art, the chants, etc. also technical (man-made) tools to create a certain experience for all believers in the temple?

Is idolatry a form of worship? The reason I ask is that Colossians 3:5 says "Put to death, therefore, whatever belongs to your earthly nature: sexual immorality, impurity, lust, evil desires and greed, which is idolatry." So I wonder if these things, which we should not do, are worship. Not worship in the good sense of the word, but worship nevertheless. I guess it depends on whether or not idolatry is a form of worship.

9 years since chrismation, I find there's no practical difference between prayer and worship within Orthodoxy. Following that, if we are to pray at all times (Eph. 6:18), then we should be praying or worshipping no matter what we are doing (working, eating, sleeping, etc.). That said, not all actions are worshipful or redirect our prayers to something other than God. So I guess with regards to the contemporary worship bands, are they really directing people to prayer or focus on themselves and the moment itself?

The beginning of my walk with Christ started in a nondenominational mega church…and I loved the worship, but now looking back I remember being let down when they didn’t play my favorite songs. Like I felt like something was missing. I moved after Covid and visited the big nondenom. Church in my area and they played Living on a Prayer by Bon Jovi after the sermon. Not cool Pastor…not cool.

Well let’s suppose you are in a proper liturgical tradition of worship in the Orthodox Church. Can you still “venerate” God with Protestant mega church style rock songs, or is that also an improper veneration to God by the use of emotion and passions?

Is offering flowers worship or veneration? Does idolatry only consist of worshipping false idols or can it also be venerating them? If it is only worshipping false idols and offering flowers is veneration but not worship, does it mean that offering flowers to an idol is not idolatry?

Scary and confusing What am I to do? Orthodox is attractive to me, but I just can’t get past all of the iconography and Thetokas stuff- even with all of the attractive well thought through thinking. I start drowning in the immensity of knowledge required to serve God.

The story of Cain. right way, wrong way It repeats over and over in the bible. Nearly all the prophets begged a return to the right way. My guess is there is a right way.

Im a protestant now reading the church fathers. I struggle with the idea of the Eucharist being a sacrifice because of what is said in Hebrews 10 about Jesus offering Himself as an on offering, once and for all. So it isnt us thay offer it, it was Christ who offered it, and its one for all. I'm sure this is a common objection that comes up. But how do you explain this? Also, you mentioned that worshipping God in Spirit and Truth doesn't mean we do whatever we want, but how do you respond to what John Calvin wrote on the verse you mentioned in Malachi 1:11, where he said the incense is not literal, because we worship God now in Spirit and Truth: "Moreover the Prophet, by מנחה, meneche, offering, and by incense, means the worship of God; and this mode of speaking is common in the Scriptures, for the Prophets who were under the law accommodated their expressions to the comprehension of the people. Whenever then they intend to show that the whole world would come to the faith and true religion - “An altar,” they say, “shall be built to God;” and by altar they no doubt meant spiritual worship, and not that after Christ’s coming sacrifices ought to be offered. For now there is no altar for us; and whosoever builds an altar for himself subverts the cross of Christ, on which he offered the only true and perpetual sacrifice. It then follows that this mode of speaking ought to be so taken, that we may understand the analogy between the legal rites, and the spiritual manner of worshipping God now prescribed in the gospel. Though then the words of the Prophet are metaphorical, yet their meaning is plain enough - that God will be worshipped and adored everywhere. But what are the sacrifices of the New Testament? They are prayers and thanksgivings, according to what the Apostle says in the last chapter of the epistle to the Hebrews. There was also under the law the spiritual worship of God, as it is especially stated in the fiftieth psalm; but there were then shadows connected with it, as it is intimated in these words of Christ - “Now is come the hour when the Father shall be worshipped in spirit and in truth.” (John 4:13.) He does not indeed deny that God was worshipped in spirit by the fathers; but as that worship was concealed under outward rites, he says that now under the gospel the simple, and, so to speak, the naked truth is taught. What then the Prophet says of offering and incense availed under the law; but we must now see what God commands in his gospel, and how he would have us to worship him. We do not find there any incense or sacrifices. This passage contains nothing else than that the time would come when the pure and spiritual worship of God would prevail in all places. And thus it appears how absurd are the Papists, when they hence infer that God cannot be worshipped without some kind of sacrifice; and on this ground they defend the impiety of their mass, as though it were the sacrifice of which the Prophet speaks. But nothing can be more foolish and puerile; for the Prophet, as we have said, adopts a mode of speaking common in Scripture. And were we to allow offering and incense to be taken here literally, how could, מנחה, meneche, offering, be the body and blood of Christ? “Oh!” they say, “it is a sacrifice made of bread, and wine was added. Oh! Christ has thus commanded.” But where has he said “sacrifice?” (209) They again deny that it is bread? for they say that it is transubstantiated into the body of Christ: now then it is not a sacrifice of bread, nor of fine flour; for the form only, visible to the eyes, and without substance, remains, as they imagine." John Calvin

"worship" singers voices are niw being autotuned during church service at these Evangelical churches....was told because they "want to present a good experience " for the worshippers...entertainment value. Do they think God needs an electronically cleaned up voice to sing to Him...smh

Apparently so. You should see Benny Hinns church where he knocks people over with hand gestures and Bill Johnsons church where they puke on the floors during worship music.

So why was God not pleased with Cain’s sacrifice?

Hardly disagree on worship song part. Psalms 100:1-2 says this: “Make a joyful shout to the Lord, all you lands! Serve the Lord with gladness; Come before His presence with SINGING.” Even king David worshipped God by playing instruments, singing praises to His name (2 Samuel 22:50) and he was “dancing before the Lord”. Certain Christians don’t get super emotional, like I have, singing about the Lord for no reason; the only one is that they have Christ in their heart and the Spirit is moving during this form of worship. Who are we to question how He moves in our lives? The emotional touch that I have felt during this is like no other. The only explanation is the Holy Spirit, and all I ever think about is the amazing grace and love He has showered me with. This is why we consider it worship.

In a way it is yes: They are all worshipping something else and not the Lord Jesus Christ...

It’s unfortunate that all of the faith videos that I have recently watched, start out with n advertisement for the trump campaign. Unfortunate