Can Christians Lose Their Salvation? 

Amen 🙏🏽

May God bless you and lead you home.

On the same path here Ellie 🧐too many things just didn't add up!

Or maybe "to leave salvation?"

@@michaelbeauchamp22 as I wrestled with this in coming out of Calvinism, I began to look at it as Christ the perfect husband and a bride, such as in the book of Hosea. Christ guarantees that he will never divorce his bride, but the bride is free to walk away. She is an absolute fool to do so, but Christ will never maintain the relationship by force.

I think the reason we use phrases like "lose salvation" is because those that are on the "road to damnation" are often referred to as being "lost". This is influenced by scriptures like Luke 15 : 24 - "Because this, my son, was dead, and he is alive; he was lost, and now he is found." But for sure you are right that salvation cannot be accidentally lost like losing our car keys. On the other hand, we do not lose our car keys unless we are careless with them. Likewise, we must pay active attention to our sanctification, or we might "back slide" unto the death of our soul. Sin is not only by commission, but omission also. Peace of Christ be with you Brother!

@@po18guy very good point. When I was a Protestant I would have responded that Satan seeks to make Christians ineffective because he can't take them to hell anymore. I think that is a common response.

I like that verbal distinction! (Can't promise I'll always remember to use it...)

Bryan Mercier, Catholic Truth, is great, too.

This reminds me of Zwingli stating frankly that he believes that all teachers within the Church have been incorrect about Baptism since the time of the apostles, he just believes that he is recovering something that the apostles knew but no one among their successors did.

@@John_FisherGreat example too.

People will stress that sola scriptura does not mean solo scriptura then have these takes.

Piper is not Presbyterian; he’s a Baptist.

@@SJ-vd1jh I think he means Loraine Boettner

Those darn conditional statements. Get ‘em turned around every time.

Go to the end of the video, at the 59:30 mark, Joe himself says that he understands how Christians can believe in eternal security from Scripture, even though they are in error.

you have not yet understood the deep ideological charcter of protestantism.... being anti-catholic is much more important than being faithful to Scripture... in practice, that means defending the ideas of the reformation at all cost, in order to avoid recognizing their sects have no right to exist...

Thank you. Thankfully, our apologist are on the front lines fighting the good fight. I just hang around Catholics, so I don’t find myself to argue this . EXCEPT with family and kids that see this misinformation.

@@silveriorebelo2920 And telling untruths and frankly outrageous lies to further that end.

I find that it actually magnifies Gods grace, in my view. The God who loved us, left the 99 to find the 1 (Matthew 18:12-13), who will let not height nor depth, angels nor demons, nor anything else in all creation separate us from the love that is in Christ Jesus (Romans 8:37-39), will hold me fast until the end. Of course, that comes with obligation for good works out of an outpouring of my gratitude towards him, but just as those good works did not contribute to my salvation (Ephesians 2:8-9) neither can my evil deeds cause me to be snatched out of Jesus’ hand (John 10:28-28). I find it beautiful, but I can see why some would think it cheap, even though I disagree. God bless

Yeah but the alternative is that everyone that has ever existed could've resisted grace in their final moments.

@@storba3860 I’m not sure I understand the objection. Could you explain your point a little bit differently?

Gods grace (CHESED) remains till the OIL (ANOINTING) has done its work but GEVURAH (judgment remains till the inner court (Heart of the temple) is cleansed from the abomination of desolation (Dan 9, Mathew 24) the yetzer and lashon hora and Hashem returns the PURE LANGUAGE that is able to prophesy the DEAD BONES in the valley of the bones of the whole house of Israel back to life:

@@ryandelaune139 Yes no one can separate us from the Love of the Lord. What if you, yourself want to be separated from the love of the Lord?

Truth.

Well eadthe Bible. It is there and I have given some scriptures as examples ..

Read the Bible

@@mikekayanderson408 Maybe you could respond to some of our critiques of your interpretation.... After all, we have read the Bible and are pointing out where you're missing context

Your comment made me smile, and reminded me of this scene from Lord of the Rings: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-yDT3_jVYAkI.html. (As a bonus, John Rhys-Davies is a Catholic...)

Seventh-Day pagan

I was a pretty anti-Catholic 7 months ago. The Farmer/Stuckey debate led to a bunch of conversations in this Facebook group I was in and I was determined to debunk the Catholics. Then I watched James White/Patrick Madrid on sola scriptura and James White/Trent Horn on eternal security and I had to admit that White was embarrassed both times. The eternal security one completely changed my thinking of salvation. I'm in RCIA now

@@sivad1025 - God bless!!!

Same thing happened to me 2 years ago. I was confirmed last easter. It's really the true church. That debate put me over the fence for catholicism

@@timboslice980 Trent Horn was on fire. Especially his appeals to Hebrews 10 and James 5. It was so compelling and White's response so weak that I really couldn't rationalize it

@sivad1025 Same here. When James white got complaining about how he has to teach people how to understand when scripture is being prescriptive or descriptive and Trent's like "yeah I just take the bible for what it says" the calvinist in me died. It was on life support already, but that was the final plug, keeping it alive.

Loose Our Salvation sounds like a charismatic sermon series about evangelization. "We don't go into the world to lose our salvation, but loose our salvation on a dying world. That's what Paul when he poured out his LIFE! AND IF WE DO THE SAME WE WON'T HAVE TO WONDER ABOUT WHY PEOPLE THINK THE CHURCH IS IRRELEVANT..." I really do like them making a point about any old thing.

That and the underlying assumption of irresistible grace

We are all sinners until we get a glorified body, we have bad blood, only one was perfect ( Jesus Christ God manifested in the flesh that died and shed his blood for us. Something to think about! The wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life. So let’s look at our lives, no one can remember all their sins since the time of accountability. Did you know the word “ Repentance means turn towards Christ, and obviously from sin and grow in his words. So to “ believe is to “ have faith In Jesus then your “ saved” Romans 7:24 ( Paul writes I do the things in my body that I don’t want to do, but I do them anyways O’Wretched man that I am. ) Paul is in heaven! To be spiritual circumcised, is to be redeemed and reborn, your soul is cut away from your sinful nature. Catholics never know if their going to heaven, because every time they sin, their running to a priest to have it annulled. I heard a wise man say if God would judge me for my thoughts in the past twenty four hours, he would send me to hell quicker then a bullet, and then he smiled and said thank God I am redeemed by the blood of Jesus.( he is saved) Blessings!

​@@johnp.6043Repentance means to turn from sin and actually do a penance. See the book of Jonah for example. And the wages of sin is still death. Romans 6:16 Do you not know that if you present yourselves to anyone as obedient slaves, you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin, which leads to death, or of obedience, which leads to righteousness?

@@tabandken8562 (Repentance turn towards and believe that Jesus is the Lord Who saves (faith), you have a changed mind about your sins. ( sure we confess our faults to God and be sorry for them Ephesians 4:30 Don’t grieve the Holy Spirt because your sealed until the day of redemption) Matthew 3:2 Jesus said repent the Kingdom of heaven is at hand. You and the Catholics are walking behind Jesus also preaching, saying repent of your sins and do penance. (works, so you can declare your righteousness for the kingdom of heaven, “false teachings”) Romans 3:10 All have sinned, none are righteous, No not one. ( but the gift of God is eternal life, by“ Faith”) Isaiah 64:6 and all our righteousness are as filthy rags to the Lord. Romans 3:21-31 King James Version 21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; 22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference: 23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; 24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: 25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God; 26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus. 27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith. 28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law. 29 Is he the God of the Jews only? is he not also of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also: Romans 4 King James Version 4 What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found? 2 For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God. 3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness. 4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt. 5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness. 6 Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works, 7 Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered. Ephesians 2:8-10 King James Version 8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast. 10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them. Acts 13:39 KJV and by him all that believe are justified from all things, from which ye could not be justified by the law of Moses. ( The law of Moses included the physical Ten Commandments, we are under the spiritual commandments) 2 Timothy 2:15 KJV Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. By dividing the word you cannot use the doctrine of Jonah for us today, nor kill animals for a blood sacrifice for sins, OT requirements for salvation. Ect.. I gave you the word of the Lord, “not my opinion. If you do not divide the word is to Dispense what God gives us by his grace in this church age“ you will be lost. When the church is caught up us believers” God goes back to deal with the unbelieving Jewish nation in Romans 11.. James 1:1 to the twelve tribes of Israel, there will be works plus Faith for salvation, Don’t take the mark of the beast, help those in need. James 5 in context it will be the last days. “Tribulation timeline” Christ comes back with his church after the seven year tribulation to rule and reign for one thousand years. The bride of Christ his church will rule and reign with him. Romans 6:16 (Is the liberty of the law is not a license to sin) Blessings!!

@@johnp.6043 It is rather dangerous to imply (by personal opinion) that because we can't remember every sin we should just forget about every sin. I can remember sins from my childhood 40 years on. One needs to pray for the Holy Spirit to guide our memory, direct our actions, and for the grace to make the best confession we can. Jesus said those who do not carry their cross and hold to the commandments he will profess to the Father that he does not know them and cast them away (to hell obviously).

And also too many verses to ignore to believe you can get snatched out of Christ's hand!

Catholic exegesis: write notes in margin Protestant exegesis: change the text by adding and deleting words til it says it right.

Catholic teaching is full of holes - not reformed theology @po18guy

@@mikekayanderson408 You keep saying that, but don't explain any of the holes we point out. Sounds to me like you just want to deny the Scriptures we cite (since that's the way you understand how denying God's word works)

@@mikelopez8564 Thou shall not slander; please sight at least one example.

Facts.

​@@GumbyJumpOff*fax

It is plainly taught in the Bible.

@@mikekayanderson408 watch the video

I try to tell my prosperity gospel following friend that Satan knows scripture better than any of us. The enemy did to Christianity what the Lord did to babel. He fractured it through the insecurity of Martin Luther. Presumption is the most dangerous idea the devil has ever conceived.

Yea, I initially thought it was about needing the proper torque on a bolt in order to be saved. 🙂

Yes, excellent point!

Thats what i been saying since learning the difference between protestants and Catholics since i was a kid!

you are very confused!!!!

@@mikekayanderson408 Not in the slightest. I thought my statement was totally logical.

Tbh Piper’s video is low hanging fruit for Joe. His (and mine if I’m honest) view is based on the systematic view of Calvinist soteriology, which piper doesn’t explain and seems to assume his viewership to understand and believe already. I’d explain it like this, just as good works do not contribute to our salvation (Ephesians 2:8-9) neither can evil deeds remove our salvation. Yes, we are called to persevere, but those who are called WILL persevere. Those who don’t merely show that they were not born again in the first place. You are a new creation in Christ when you are saved, the old has passed away (from the context and the phrase passed away itself we can reasonably assume the old will not return). God bless!

YES those who are called will persevere because Jesus preserves them! AMEN . I keep trying to explain this - on this actual video and on others - but hit deaf ears every time! @@ryandelaune139

@@ryandelaune139 The old does not return because we are given an indelible mark on our soul at Baptism but a new creation can become dead just like the prodigal son become dead and then alive Again (Luke 15:24).

@@apostolicapologetics4829 Using a parable is not the best example because it's often used to make one point and not to prove a doctrine. But as for the parable, the prodigal Son was dead because he didn't know the father and instead took the riches and left to indulge himself. But him coming back means he's alive, not again but for the first time, because he know understands his place and the love of his father. He experienced the kind of love where he would never leave again. But check out the older brother, is he alive? No, he's as dead as his brother in a different form and is still dead. He was jealous of his brother because his brother got to do all those worldly things and this his father sacrificed a goat for him but not the older brother for obeying. He didn't know the father's heart at all. These are supposed to represent the Pharisees and the prodigal son represent the societal low-lifes. But in reality, the low-lifes were the one that got saved because they knew they needed saving, whereas the Pharisees crucified Jesus in their anger.

@@t0nyxgq Why does the parable say Again in Luke 15:24?

I mean we believe in the general resurrection. All have been saved from death - faithful and rebellious alike. But it’s a question as to what state of life you are going to be raised into.

the false doctrine is the Roman one! Not the Reformed one!

⁠​⁠​⁠​⁠@@mikekayanderson408 Please watch the video before making comments. Actually the video proves it’s the Reformed doctrine and the doctrines of all the so called reformers that are false so therefore your comment is false. Why? The video uses the Bible and the Magisterium of the Catholic Church to prove you and them wrong. Why? Because Jesus is the head of the body, the church. Col1:18. Not the fragmented 16th century churches. Jesus said in Mat16:17-19, “I will build my church, and the powers of death shall not prevail against it. 19 I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven and whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.” In other words Jesus gave his authority to interpret Scripture to first Cephas then the other apostles in Mat18:18 and then to their successors. Jesus never authorized fallible men like Piper, Luther, Zwingli or Calvin the authority to interpret Sacred Scripture.

You are mixing everything up as usual. You are regurgitating Roman Catholic teaching. The Reformers were not wrong! Roman teaching with its magesterium and popes and fathers are wrong. So anyone relying on them for truth won’t t find it. TheRoman Church is not the one true church - it is one of the fragments you speak of but it has become very powerful through politics etc. it has done a good job in brainwashing all of you and blinded you all to the truth. Calvinism is not some private sect with wired teahig. It’s not a denomination. Calvin was just one of the many reformers bringing te truth of the Bible back to the forefront after it had been suppresed and mangled by all your precious fathers and pope sad priests and the reformers wanted to rectify this. It is just that Calvin happened to write very good explanation of the doctrines being reinstated and his name has become well known. Calvinism is biblical. But Rome hates this and hasn’t taught its followers to hate it too. K @@Spiritof76Catholic

⁠@@mikekayanderson408 I think you're just regurgitating protestant propaganda. Maybe you're the one mixing everything up "as usual." Does that convince you to become Catholic? Probably not. Why would it convince Catholics to become protestant? You should take people with the benefit of the doubt. They probably have good reasons for believing what they believe, even if they're wrong. Assuming that people are manipulated, mindless, or just regurgitating something is uncharitable, and unChristian

He's a wolf dressed as a sheep spreading destructive heresy.

He just repeats the same lines about it being obvious from scripture, the Church father's _did_ teach it, there's a lack of evidence from Catholics therefore he's right, without providing the proper justification for any of his claims. He's all words and will literally admit nothing if it doesn't benefit him. He claimed to me in the comments the Didache actually support protestantism and his view which is like obstinately claiming the sky is green

@@TruthHasSpokenVery true. I prefer a wolf showing his teeth like James White than the so called nice wolf like Gavin Ortlund.

​@@andrefouche9682 Agree 100%. One needs to have a critical eye on his words. The best cure for protestantism is education .... and reading the earliest Christians on what they believed is the place to start.

the earliest Christians are quoted in the Bible!!!!!! The APOSTLES!!! Jesus said himself He would raise up everyone who was called by the Father. Called, saved, raised up! secure in Jesus! Only the called are saved. Lots of people say they are believers but were never actually called by the Father...... they have a false sense of security because they are religious and do religious things and go to church and have been baptised (which does not save), and attend the eucharist (which does not save) participate in sacraments (which do not save). SO READ THE APOSTLES ! Jesus said "No man CAN COME to Me, EXCEPT THE FATHER, which hath sent Me, DRAW HIM: AND I WILL RAISE HIM UP AT THE LAST DAY." John 6:44. NOT DIFFICULT TO UNDERSTAND. So baptise a baby 50 times and it will not be born again it is God's choice who is born again Joe is the wolf. Your church with all its popes and fathers are the wolves. K@@TruthHasSpoken

God gave us free will. We can decide to separate ourselves from him. It’s not a matter of being more powerful than God but what God allows.

@@Hilaire_Balrog Read John 6 and John 17 about Jesus and Him holding on to us and not letting anyone slip away except for Judas who was predestined to betray Jesus. But in John 6, Jesus says that all those the father draws, Jesus will raise. Meaning a 1 for 1. This meant the crowd who went to Jesus did not go to Jesus because the Father drew them but it was their hungry stomachs. They proved Jesus right when they left Him. Funny thing about free will is that the bible says our will is not free but a slave to sin. Only God can break the chains of sin and allow us to make choices. Free will always reacts to what people desire but can people will their own desires to change? That's very hard, if not impossible. Can a gay man will themselves to be straight? No he can't and his will is not free. He can't help but to desire men but with God, he can abstain from it.

Exactly! In fact, anyone who believes St. Paul is easy to understand, is directly contradicting scripture. As Peter says of some of Paul's epistles: “there are some things in them that are hard to understand, which the ignorant and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do the other scriptures” (2 Peter 3:16).

not the way for a so-called christian to speak !!!!! but maybe you are just a catholic not a christian !

Catholics use more symbolism (right brain that interprets PICTURES) and Protestants fancy themselves for understanding the LETTER with the left brain but only the RESULT proves what you need and what you come to grasp in the end by EXPERIENCE: Judaism uses both as well but they don't have the objectivity to speak of it because of their NEED to be RIGHT about everything. @@po18guy

... but he was never a REAL disciple anyway, right?!? 😂

He was not saved unto eternity He was there to deny Christ and hand Him over. Son of perdition. That was God’s plan @@pdxnikki1

@@pdxnikki1 he never real disciple of jesus? what proof? jesus take 12 disciples is judas one of them? i

Note, scripture does not teach free will. It teaches free agency.

You could write them down as you watch the video, right?

the angels are not human beings for a start. they do not need to be saved. They were created perfect but not all were ELECT see 1 Timothy 5:21 so when they rebelled they were cast out . those who have remained faithful to God are the ELECT ANGELS. This shows that God chose some angels so they would NOT follow Satan's rebellion and be cast out of heaven the angels that fell will never repent and be reinstated. But God in His mercy has chosen a number of humans to be saved.......K

@@mikekayanderson408 I think an entire video could be made about your response. You are giving your interpretation (which is full of pretext) to answer my question. One verse with capitalized words doesn’t resolve my question. If anything it shows that God gives every being in his presence the option to stay or go at anytime. We are in need of his salvation to achieve a spot in his presence. His gift of salvation is not a ball and chain. We have the option to accept it and we have the option to then reject it….K

@@mikekayanderson408 how calvinist/un-biblical of you

Apples and oranges

@@mikelopez8564 You’re in an apple orchard thinking you are picking oranges.

Is fixed

Hmm, how one interprets John 6:44 and Romans 8:29-30 has been examined on a somewhat quirky channel called How to be Christian in videos entitled 'Christian vs. Protestant on John 6:44' followed by a knockout video in response to Mr James White called 'James White DESTROYS James White: On John 6:44', as well as one entitled 'The Bible DESTROYS Protestantism (005): Romans 8:1 through Romans 8:39' among others.You might find them amusing if not enlightening. God bless, A

@@Vigula Sorry, I'm not following. Maybe if you can provide those arguments or try to rebut mine.

What you're talking about is Hope, a Christian virtue. If you persevere, you WILL be saved. It's good to trust in God's mercy. This video touches the belief that It's absolutely impossible for any Christian to be damned. No matter how unfaithful or disobedient one becomes. This cheapens God's mercy and God's justice. You're taking it all for granted. This isn't hope, it's presumption.

@@alonsoACR The grace of God is a gift that you cannot buy that takes the faith of Abraham to understand

@@po18guy Mark 12:29-31 KJV And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord: 30. And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment. 31. And the second is like, namely this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these.

@@po18guy But yes, the mosaic law is gods law that has found us all guilty of breaking

No, it never quite gets there - either turn it up (2X) or sit closer (I never noticed this in the past), but I need closed caption for this.

We'll make it louder next time!

They rejected the Holy Spirit by lying to God. Peace of Christ be with you.

@@paularnold3745 when we sin ,whatever sin we commit ultimately we are sinning against God. King David makes that clear in the Psalms. So every time we lie you we are lieing to God. Are we too then rejecting the Holy Spirit? God Bless

The devil will accuse you of your sin and will try to make you despair. Don’t worry. This is why Jesus established His Church and the sacrament of Penance- forgiveness of sins. Go to Confession and receive His Mercy. This life is a continual trial and Jesus promised that the soul who persists to the end will be saved. Keep getting up after a slip or a fall. St Joseph is a great source of strength, he has been for me.

Im Catholic, but where in Galatians 3:5 does it say we can fall from grace?

@@MasterKeyMagic Sorry, got my scripture wrong, it is Gal 5:4 " You are severed from Christ, you who would be justified by the law, you have fallen away from grace".

AMEN, saved and sealed! Ex Catholic here. Jesus is Lord and is coming SOON!