James your mastery of CAD never ceases to amaze me. I'm one of those OLD DOG machinists, jealous of how easy you make it look , yet with your teaching skills, I learn more and more each and every-time I watch, like so many others. Thank you for all you do for us.
Well put Don. James, thanks for all you teach me about Fusion 360. I learned AutoCAD in 2D. The transition to thinking in 3D has been a bit of a bumpy road, but the more I force myself to do it, the easier it becomes. My 3D printer runs almost 24/7. As such, Fusion 360 is always open ! I did invest in a space mouse, and love it to bits but don't seem to be as proficient as you with it. James, are you just running the out of the box configuration? Did you change any of the directions?
I really appreciate your Fusion360 CAD tutorials. I like that they are short little lessons vs the long lesson videos that are available. I've learned lots in a short period of time. Constraints, Projection, Offset Planes, and that Rib on a curved surface was awesome. This video was great to demonstrate the every day bracket solutions a lot of people want to make. Thanks!
Excellent video! I’m certain that PETG will be more than enough for this application, especially with the rib you added. Interested to see what you come up with testing!
I would always do some FEM before putting a part in an application that have the potential to go anywhere close to the limits. Fiber filled filaments are not special. They do not have the properties of laminated composits. All the fibers do is reduce warping and increase stiffness by trading in toughness. A CF Nylon part will just bend less and break directly upon impact, while an unfilled part will deform before failing.
Another tip I've been told, but haven't had opportunity to use much, is to model screw holes as tear drops with the ideal printing direction in mind. That way, you don't print unsupported overhangs, as the teardrops have 45 degree slopes at the top.
I think one of the most powerful features in F360 is the use of projected geometry. Your use of this feature for making the rib was an elegant example of how powerful using projected geometry is and its a feature that lots of F360 users seem to struggle with.
In place of where James used a projected geometry, he could have also used an intersect geometry to achieve the same result. One thing I really like about Fusion is that there are frequently different ways to reach the same (or very similar) result. But getting to see how someone else models things is great! I also found the tip about the ribs valuable.
@@drhender6943 that’s a good point about using the rib command…I thought he would enclose the geometry and extrude it, but using the rib or web command is even quicker…..F360 is a neat tool in that regard.
While I appreciate the relative symmetry of the strongback/spine being in the center of the part, I suspect the strength would be functionally equivalent if that strongback/spine was off to one side - which would have eliminated the need for any support material under that feature.
also possible that it could have had an angle that would have been able to print without support instead of 90deg off build plate, use a bit more material but probably not as much as the supports anyway
Yeah good idea. I try to do no support prints where I can as often the supports blemish the surface if you don’t get them right. I use Petg that sticks more than I think it should and if you space the support further away the part droops more. The designer on “out of darts” channel is apparently very good within supports - it would be nice to see a tutorial about his approach. Ie trial and error on each part, till he gets it right? Sadly every part will act differently due to weight, surface area, material and environmental changes like humidity etc. so I guess developing a bell curve of what works to minimize printing lots of (expensive) full-size tests is a good approach.
Well, not necessarily. For example, if you need a support in the center of something, you would use a “t” beam, not an angle beam. The angle has a line of strength that’s asymmetrical. One side is stronger than the other. The T beam has equal strength on either side. The angle beam will tend to twist towards the flat side, whereas the T beam will tend to remain straight. That’s why virtually anything that needs additional support has that support in the middle. Yes, 3D printing may need extra support while printing, but it’s a small sacrifice for the proper support geometry of the part. You can look at shelf brackets, the center of the bracket is brought out for strength, not the side.
@@melgross Given the fact that this part is supported from torque by virtue of the bar connecting them together, I'd say the difference between a T and an L shape, in this configuration, is not meaningful. Shelf brackets come in a lot of different varieties, and I have used designs that are have an L-shaped profile rather than T. It makes for a bracket that can be cut from a flat material and bent into shape easily. No welding and you can build a very heavy duty bracket this way. It really comes down to the purpose, and the economy of the manufacturing, and naturally aesthetics.
Pro-tip: add a 45 degree chamfer to the underside of features like that rib and they'll print without supports. Or just make the whole thing thicker, it's mostly emptying space inside, you're not saving much material by complicating the geometry like that.
This has inspired me to get into modeling on my own with only a varying amount of random skills like yourself. Currently have a custom speaker adapter for my car printing right now after a bit of tinkering. Love your videos!
Really loving watching your channel, it’s helping me no end with learning F360. I have a Syil X7 CNC mill and a Prusa i3 Mk3s , so drawing more and more things now in CAD, them cam for the mill. Keep up the great work, and thanks for the time you put into making these videos for us guys.
I appreciate the process being shared from start to finish. The support /spine is something I hadn't thought about before but may incorporate in the future! Thanks for an excellent video
Hi Clough42, I really enjoy watching your videos. Thanks for sharing your amazing knowledge. You might already know this, But I wanted to mention this. I installed a sheet of 1/8 inch poly carbonate on my 3d printer. It is the best thing I ever did to my printer. No more glue or hairspray. I also get the best surface finish on my prints now. I just clean it with windex. For me getting that perfect surface finish is the best thing. But not having to clean all the time is awesome as well. Thanks again for sharing your skills.
I believe that since you had the dimensions for the sound bar you could have made the parts to not extend beyond it and align the front face with the television but other from that it was a good job.
Really nice video, I don’t have the head space to learn CAD at this time, but you make it dance in a way that is inspiring and yet suggests that it is possible to learn :)
One of my favorite sayings is "You don't know, what you don't know." I had no inking of an idea how to use Fusion 360 or where to even start or what program to even use to design even simple projects. I've taken blueprint reading and still have my school book and this, THIS is something that I can understand. All the other videos I found are how to make a hand or a face or some other artsy project. Please make a whole course for Fusion 360!!!
I really enjoy your totally professional approach to everything you do. I am especially jealous of your facility with Fusion as I have extremely limited experience with it and really struggle to learn/retain the most basic operations. I'm 71, what can I say?
I remember hearing about creep issues with nylon filaments. I only just started trying to print in nylon myself. Would be cool if you did a follow up on how the brackets have held up under the constant load of the sound bar ~7 months down the road now.
Seems like there is creep issues with certain nylons. I’ve had some that holds perfectly over a year later. Then I had one that had an important pin move over 4-5 mms rendering the part unusable. Creep is one of the most over looked parameters when making functional 3d prints
Did the filament absorb moisture? Also I heard it takes about 2 weeks for nylon to get to its final properties because it absorbs moisture from the air.
Carbon Fiber Nylon is by far worth the $$. I use it daily in an industrial environment making end use parts and tooling. All parts are made on a Markforged Mark Two.
I love your fusion videos. I’m new to cad and they’re SOO helpful. Also, maybe I’m weird but I actually don’t like when someone shows that they already built a thing and then we watch them build it again, like the 3D model. I kind of want to be along for the initial ride, in case anything weird pops up I guess. Even if they really did build it before hand I kind of want to be ignorant of that.
I completely understand your point if view, but I'm the opposite. For some others' videos, I fast-forward to the end so that I know what's being built. And I certainly don't like watching someone go down some path just to have to backtrack.
I've used CF nylon and CF PETG filaments in projects with our high school robotics team and was very pleased with the resulting parts. I don't have any concrete measurements, but the parts felt more rigid/solid and help up well. I'm looking forward to your tests to help put real measurements to the parts from different materials.
I'm not a licensed engineer, but I think the answer to the question is "modulus of elasticity". It's why a carbide boring bar is stiffer than a steel one, why an aluminum bracket will be stiffer than any plastic one, why any plastic part has flex in it.
3D printing is awesome. I've made fully functional parts as well. I usually go for PETG when I need functional parts, such as a few automotive parts I've made, some of which have even been used in the engine bay of a vehicle. I was a bit concerned that PETG wouldn't have quite enough temperature resistance to live under the hood in an engine bay, but the parts have been holding up just fine for months now!
(20:18) No, you do not need 3 vises. You need Machinist's Jacks! Simple as dirt, but good content.. (Also, use angle iron instead of flat bar). :) Great video. I always look forward to your videos. Thanks! :)
I need to give some other materials a go, I only ever use PETg right now. For this particular part, I'd expect PETg or PLA to have worked just fine but for higher temperature parts or parts which will wear I can see nylon being beneficial. You could have printed the brackets without any supports by using a rib with a trapezoidal profile. That would have changed the horizontal face of the rib (relative to your print bed) so that it is at 45 degrees. You'd need to add clearance for the stretcher mounting screws but as long as they have a rounded profile (relative to the print bed) that would be fine.
Great video. The mini tutorial of Fusion 360 was excellent. It made so much more sense than actual tutorial videos because you were creating a part that had to function in the real world and you let the viewer follow from start to finish so it was much easier to understand the design process. If you have more videos on designing with Fusion 360, I’ll find them. If not, you need to get that!😎Kidding around but serious at the same time. You have some talent with design that you need to share with morons like myself. Just a couple questions. Why did you use the mild steel strap instead of printing a PA-CF strap to connect the mounts? Not fit in printer? Waste of filament? Finally, I understand why you oriented the mounts on the building surface when slicing for the printer. Have you ever tried printing a part , like these mounts, with PA-CF using varying plate orientations to demonstrate the importance for rigidity and strength as well as seeing how the failures would happen simply by changing how the filament is layed down. I was on board with how you explained the slicing profile. I was curious if it’s possible to change layer direction in the software to ensure load and stress will travel through the part the way you want it to based on the properties of the filament being used. Thanks for your time. -Jason Burchell
Making your rib on the back as a right triangle profile will allow it to print without support. Not quite as strong maybe but generally more than enough for a part like this.
I have dozens of TV's hanging off 3d printed VESA brackets generated in tinkercad and attached to 8020 extrusion. All PETG, all hanging without a hitch for 3+ years now, some of them 80 inch ones. Carbon fiber was $'s down the drain, but not really the point. PETG is strong stuff, as long as you slice and orient it right, and follow a few tips. With all that said, the video was very interesting, and frankly, you should teach a master class in fusion 360 as you make it seem super easy compared to others. Hell I'd pay $'s for it...
Fibers simply trade toughness for rigidity. The properties of the base material still apply, i.e. PC-CF isn't going to creep, PA-CF will still creep a bit.
I've had pretty good luck with Nylon w/Carbon Fibre, Glass, Kevlar as well as PC with CF for printing mechanical parts. To the point where I've basically ditched other materials. Only issue is that you have to remember to use a hardened or sapphire nozzle.
I'm curious about the long term results. Some CF Filanents have a tendency to creep more then without CF. As always great video and looking forward to the next 👍
It's actually the other way around. Fibers generally make the impact of creep smaller. Nylons on the other hand all have the tendency to creep, some more than others.
@@danieldeutschen7714 yea in general (injection molding) this is true but seems not the same with CF Nylon filaments. Just ask @CNC-Kitchen about his voron parts ;)
@@MakenModify I know the video, but honestly, that was expected. PA's are plasticized by moisture, and thus get softer. As heat deflection properties are a function of load, Nylon parts under constant loads creep. On the other hand, fibers are orders of magnitude stiffer than the base polymer and hardly react with moisture. Honesty, there aren't too many applications where CF nylons shine. Most of the time, PCCF and PPS-CF are superior.
@@danieldeutschen7714 yea my point is I'm curious to how it will stand up over time in this case. I'm positive that a pure PC would be better but who knows, till we try
The existing feet would seem to be the easiest starting point for speaker brackets. Just cut off the ends of tbe feet so that the the length is the same as the front-to-back depth of the sound bar. It should be easy to attach the bar to the feet, from glue to cable ties to screws through the top of the bar into the feet. Easy peasy lemon squeezy.
This is perfect timing. I've been tasked to find a new printer and been looking at the Creatbot or Modix for large prints with high temp materials. Support removal looks very nice from a few videos, and compared to a Stratasys F370 the extra volume is nice. We've seen improvements in printing using Simplify3D over Cura, but nothing beats GrabCAD print for SolidWorks native support, so curious how well PA materials print on hobby level software. Looking forward to more videos.
I'd be curious to see how this holds up long-term - nylon can creep quite a bit, not sure about PA12-CF in particular. I reach for ABS for this sort of application, as it strikes a good balance between strength and toughness, and does not creep.
I think pla would still work with this particular part would be interesting to see it in more real life applications where it takes abit of abuse maybe outdoor testing or in the engine bay of a car places you really wouldn't trust regular printing materials I want to make bead roller dies with it but not sure if it would crack
doesn't that apron neck strap dig into your neck? i wore an apron for many years and could not stand the digging into my neck so i put it on the out side of the shirt collar, and no more issues
Their is a crucial missing piece and that is finite element analysis to verify the design and then print and test it. I too watch dr sabine and northbridgefix
There's a button on the bottom of the TV I'd still like to be able to reach. Though part of the beauty of 3D printing is iteration. I can measure, adjust, and print again with very little personal time investment.
As always great video! I really enjoy your Fusion tutorials. It is your fault though every time I project in Fusion I have to say to myself “P for project”. Lol thanks
I printed a PLA security camera mount a few years ago - the holder looks sad and droopy. I hope that filament holds up better than my PLA mount - but hey lessons learned for a new attempt when I feel like it.
If you do alternate materials try petg (my favorite) as it strikes a balance of strength and ease to print then do Asa and PC. I guess Pla could be used as a cheaper option but it creeps. Noticed on this part you did a couple perimeters and infill. So would be interesting to see once you determined the best alternative material what the impact of perimeters and infill have on that choice. Ie 2 peri and infill or 3 + or 4 + or solid. I print a few bike part prototypes and always run 4 perimeter but often I just do solid as that material I feel aids rigidity. Stefan at CNC kitchen has a few vids on perimeters etc so may be redundant you do the same reviews, but you probably have 2 videos here to feed the algorithm. Interesting thing to note while you had square parts that was easy to print if you had a tapered part (with steps) it could be worth 3d printing and then milling so you combine additive and subtractive manufacturing. So I guess that’s now 3 ideas… haha.
Really informative video as always, although my vote for this part would be pla would do fine, i this the cf would be better on a part that is taking forces that are continuing changing in direction etc.
I've had some thinner parts printed in Qidi PA12-CF warp after sitting on the desk. I wonder if it's drawing moisture. It will be interesting if these beefier parts retain their shape.
Not sure I agree - the design process is almost identical in FreeCAD...it just doesn't look as fancy. FreeCAD is quite capable, one just needs to learn the 'tricks'.
@@louiel8711 The problem here is the rapid pace of development of the software (I think). I find that the "sketcher" and "part" workbenches (which are quite mature) tend to keep behaving consistently. Some of the other workbenches which are under development can change their behaviour frequently...so YT videos for the workbench from 1-2 years ago may no longer be valid.
@@CDN_Torsten It's usually the part and part design workbenches that I have the issues with, fillets chamfers and placing additive and subtractive primitives. The version I'm running is the .19.4 the last stable one before .20 which just crashed constantly for me, and I make sure the version number matches mine before even trying to do the tutorials. I have been using FreeCAD now for 15 months so not new to it but not advanced either.
@@louiel8711 I don't use the "part design" workbench so I am not familiar with the challenges it has...I tend to stick with the workbenches I know as I have deadlines to meet...and I been using FreeCAD for many years so I have figured out the nuances needed to make things happen. I run both .18 and .19 versions as some features from .18 don't open correctly in .19 especially related to imported PCBs. Good luck and don't give up - FreeCAD is very capable and comes at a very fair price :)
Very nice! I watch a past video of yours, the solid tool post for your lathe, again very nice! I’m rebuilding a EMCo Maximat 11 lathe. You seem be very knowledgeable with CAD, can you suggest a simple CAD program for drawing up some simple parts or some tools? Thanks 🤙🏼
7:00 It's not clear (at least to me) how making a test print of this piece at this point would have revealed that the 53 degree angle was incorrect. At this point, in the 3D model of that piece, that 53 degree measurement is only relative to a virtual axis in CAD; it's not relative to anything "real" that gets 3D printed along with the model. Does that make sense?
7:14 I was thinking , it’s a pity you didn’t 3D scan the tv leg then you would only need to remove what you didn’t need , and save your self having to print out a test part .
6:52 at it's current state, printed, the angle wouldn't have posed a problem, there was no conflicting geometry. Did you find that out at a later stage, or am I missing something? I'm just learning Fusion.
@@mazchen which planes of the tv mount side, the part that was designed at 6:52? I understand if that was the whole bracket that the speaker mount faces wouldn't be coplanar. But I can't see what part of the design at that point would show that. Again, I'm really new to Fusion, but if there is something that would save me down the road of not having to fully design a part and print the entire thing, before finding out the problem. Maybe I have to look at both sections of the video to find the 2 reference points between the two interface surfaces.
most carbon fiber nylons (all of the nylons really) are not very well suited for structural parts. these filaments creep a lot over time, and even under bolt tension they will deform out of the way and loosen up. This seems like a fine application that isn't sensitive to slightly loose parts or slow movement over time
The servo motor mount on my lathe endures considerable force and is loaded continuously by a long motor hanging from one side. It's been holding up beautifully for many months. The QIDI PA12-CF seems to exhibit less creep than NylonX, though it also appears to be more brittle. I assume these material properties are on opposite ends of a continuum. Next week I'll have a testing video, and you can see some creep in most of the materials, though some of the fiber reinforced materials seem to settle down after a while.
@@Clough42 yeah I've gone through several different CF-nylons and just decided the crapshoot wasn't worth it. two from 3dx, one from esun, a couple others that i'm forgetting, none of em were any good for me. A small ice-cube camera mount warped WAY out of square, not even getting hot, just holding a tiny camera that only weighed tens of grams, the mount was even printed solid. printer parts warped within a week, I had to rebuild my entire gantry again because of them. The PA-12s should be a bit better, but I think a big issue is that there's no real standard for creep that gets documented in these datasheets for materials, so if you go just by what is listed on the datasheet you can end up wildly misled on the performance of the material you've just bought. I think once you're in the HTN realm you're probably OK because it's so crystalline.
I'm a newbie at 3D printing . Haven't put mine together yet due to health issues. From Watching your video , I am going to have à problem learning fusion 360. I just hope the saying isn't true that you can't teach a old dog new tricks. Lol
PLA would have worked fine on my Ender 3 V2. Overall a good design and really clean looking mounted. Glad F360 is available, but still would have used SolidWorks(Desktop). Very cool watching the support material removal.
Very cool, but seriously, that sound bar weighs what? Five pounds? I really don't mean to troll but that's hardly any kind of test, I would expect even PLA to handle that.
PetG would have worked equally as well for this project. From what I have seen so far (various tests from various makers), carbon fiber filament offers no benefit at all. If you think about it, it makes sense. The carbon fiber basically has to be powder, as fine as talc powder, just so it doesn't clog your nozzle. Now, is it even known how well any of these plastics bond to the powder? I would be willing to bet good money on the fact that plastic doesn't bond as well to this filler material (carbon fiber) as it does to itself. This means that you are weakening the plastic by adding the powder (which is also what tests seem to indicate). Now if it was decent length strands... well that would be useful, but I have seen nothing in these exact types of filaments that show the carbon fiber as strands of anything. Hell it can't be, otherwise your prints would look like complete garbage with stringing all over the place.
I’m going to put my prediction in now… While obviously carbon fiber is far superior and would likely give the best results, I believe that PLA would hold up just fine. Sure it may flex a bit more but for this application, unless you’re constantly pulling on it or using it as a pull-up bar, it would be fine. Again CF will win in all the tests (most likely) but if I didn’t have any in stock id be comfortable printing this part in PLA or ABS. A side note for all the RU-vid experts: I’m not considering the weight of the sound bar as there are too many variables I can’t account for or calculate like I can for the piece of mild steel. So keep that in mind while you type your inexperienced and uneducated beratements below…
Interesting. I keep my weed eater string out in a shed so it stays nice and damp and flexible. I always thought the moisture was good for toughness. I'll have to try this with some filled nylon. Maybe it's different.
I have heard both. Some people recommend soaking the part in water to improve its properties. I live in a dry climate, so humidity is almost never a factor.
@@p39483 I'm in the midwest and that particular part was a very simple item butnalso underwent refular use. It well could be that I had poor layer adhesion overall and/or less than ideal print parameters and/or conditions but the part came off the bed rock solid. The part fully delaminated over the course of the summer, I've not printed any other CF Nylon since but I've hardly printed anything since that summer in general.
