You know, it’s funny, in the Greek Orthodox Church, the priest’s wife is addressed as “presbytera” which translates roughly to “presbytress” or “priestess”, but the priest’s wife doesn’t ever preach, instead she usually helps organizing the food for church dinners, the charity drives, and Sunday school type things. She doesn’t usurp the role of priest, she compliments her husband.
Weird that in your mind the womans role is a tool for her husband, her existence it to prop him up. How sad Personally, as a man I view women as equals.
@@TheBigZam the most basic unit of society is the family, not the individual. niether the man nor the woman are independant such that they ought to live seporate lives or else "be the tool of the other"
As a woman, no we can't. Studying theology makes it clear that women cannot be leaders of a church. But we definitely can learn theology and teach other women and children! We still need it because if we're teaching children we need to not accidentally fall into modalism teaching the trinity or something.
The idea of women not supposed to be the leaders of the church is something that's particularly hard for my mom to accept, whenever I bring the idea up with parts of Scripture to support it, or trends like with how nearly all female pastors we've seen bring in some form of false doctrine (we've had some female pastors at our church the past few years, one of them was subtly pro-gay-marriage-acceptance and another was apparently talking about "women need more empowerment patriarchy blah blah" or whatever [according to my mom, I never actually met this one]), or things about the man being the leader of the family and other similar topics, my mom doesn't really like hearing it and says that those parts of scripture must be meaning something else or were only saying that because women weren't that educated at the time period or something, and that it doesn't really apply now that women are. She's very conservative in every other respect, including completely against every other idea that men and women are basically the same, especially the trans stuff, and was adamant about sending my sister and me to private Christian schools instead of public school, but this stuff specifically is something she doesn't like or really accept. Most recently she said it sounds like treating women like they're children. I think it might be because she grew up in the 60s and 70s in public school, where if I'm not mistaken many progressive things were starting to be taught and instilled as good but hadn't yet taken over society as a whole, like how men and women can both do pretty much any non-physical role in society perfectly equally (including leading churches), so earlier wave feminism, and many churches and conservatives were just kinda accepting that thinking it was fine, while the negative results and effects of said progressivism hadn't yet come to fruition like it has nowadays so it all seemed great at the time, but that's only my own speculation. But it does leave me in a bit of a pickle on what to do, do I just drop it since neither she nor my sister are planning on ever being pastors anyway or what? Or am I the one in the wrong for believing this position, I always want to keep me being wrong a possibility too
It's very counterintuitive to keep women, and especially MOTHERS, from learning deep systematic theology. Proverbs 31 clearly described that the wife and mother is wise and speaks truth.
1:20 Prior arguments supporting 2:26 Leader vs Pastor 3:22 The argument is more symbolic of the relationship between men and women 4:28 1 Timothy 2:12 what that means and the purpose of the epistles 6:19 Connected to the creation 6:36 Why the Epistles can’t just be contextual 7:33 Scripture and tradition 7:55 Influential women and the elevation of women 9:11 “For every heresy there’s an equal and opposite reactionary heresy. 9:55 Priorities 16:30 Why women should be theologians 19:31 Women should be more bold in studying theology 19:47 Teaching is the best way to learn something. The importance of knowing and teaching theology for women becoming mothers 21:11 The importance of female theologians. Women connect with other women. 22:40 Theologian meaning 23:10 Why female theologians occupy the liberal space more
As a woman, I don’t want women to be pastors either because female pastors unfortunately tend to so often be heretical or theological liberals. It’s something everyone notices about female pastors that it has become a joke. A lot of people see this rejection of female pastors as misogynistic or hateful, but I don’t see that it that way. I went to a church that didn’t have female pastors but I never felt any sexism. I always felt loved and appreciated.
So true! I was actually saying he's overestimating how many women are called to leaders (Deborah) while underestimating all the things that we commonly are called to do.
@@konstantinosnikolakakis8125When you say church choir members are you referring to females? That’s what it sounds like in context. I am new to Orthodoxy and attended a several services about to become a Catechumen. Anyway, is there a sort of controversy about female choir members? The church I go to is OCA and the choir is a mix. However, on RU-vid among all sects and languages there is male and female singers. I agree the idea of a female priest is quite strange but could you elaborate on the second group.
@@sillygoose3347 They've got female choir members in the States, and they do their chants in English. I'm Canadian, so our chanters are all men and all chant in Greek, and I think that's better. In Canada, the Orthodox Church isn't part of the OCA, and is instead directly subordinate to the Patriarch of Constantinople, so our churches are more in line with the ones in Greece.
We all have different roles and callings in the kingdom of god. Women have a different cross to bear than men, it doesn't make them less. God created both to create one flesh through marriage, meaning neither is whole without the other.
I think an important nuance to this debate is the idea that men and women are complementary in social roles. Neither is inherently better or worse. Men and women can both be theologians and saints. Leadership roles in the Church are definitely have an element of authority, but they are also meant to require humility and service. Men who are priests and bishops are meant to serve and protect the laity, men and women. I think reading up on Mary and even Jesus’ interactions with women in the Bible shows how there is a real place for women to be involved in critical areas of the church community, and that the administration of certain sacraments is simply the job of men as a loving sacrifice for the community, and women can make loving sacrifices other ways.
I enjoyed the video a lot but I do have to say that in my interpretation, the female pastor issue is much higher on the list of importance because its a part of a bigger problem. A huge issue in the church today is literal interpretation of the bible and respect for God's word. If a church is willing to turn a blind eye to a single part of scripture, no matter how small, they are/will be willing to do that with much larger issues in the church and Christianity as a whole. This is visible in most churches that have female pastors as the preaching is almost always watered down and progressive. Just singling out the issue of women in ministry at first glance may not seem like that big of a deal, but taking a look at the bigger picture and noticing intentional disregard of scripture is what leads most people to regard this as a more important issue.
I also disagree on it being a small issue, it has further much more problematic impacts on society as a whole down the line, and it actually happened on my church, the fact that a woman becomes a leader or a pastor was the RESULT of bad theology and not taking scriptures seriously. At some point our male pastor (which was in favor of the whole thing) even said those exact words "well, we can't really tell what is a sin and what's not right? We shouldn't judge God's gift to other people". While I believe it's true that correlation is not causation, the fact that something so obviously wrong from a scripture POV is being accepted exposes a catastrophic scenario in most churches nowadays. Without the Word we're nothing. We get saved from hearing the word, we glorify God by speaking the word. If the word is relative and not serious in a way that you can just interpret however you want, then people will have one more reason to don't even care about what you're trying to preach. And funnily enough the woman that became pastor in my church is very pro-minority political-correct mentality and treats homosexuals as victims and stuff like that, so you can kind of see where this is heading towards for us.
Well said. Either the Bible is God breathed and we will be held to account by it as it has been provided to us or it's meaningless and weak able to be "reinterpreted", nullifying the meaning of the phrase "the word of God endures forever". Also Sola Scriptura and Tota Scriptura go hand in hand. This idea of picking and choosing verses based on emotions of the time or transient feelings is not sustainable or biblical. God's word is eternal truth essentially
It sounds very much like you reject that people can interpret the Bible differently than you. I attend a very conservative church that does have a different, very Bible based interpretation on the subject of women pastors. It’s cheap and easy to use a shorthand for “Bible believing” by picking your favorite subject, but it is arrogant to do so. Men only as pastors has not appeared on any of the historical creeds.
@@johnlong9786 I attend a so called "calvinist" church while not being a calvinist myself, so I would say I do not reject the teachings of those who have a different interpretation of the bible than me. To me there is a clear line between interpretation and blatant rejection. There are plenty of Bible passages that are left intentionally ambiguous for whatever reasons God may have and within said scripture, I enjoy the discussion and disagreement regarding such things, iron sharpens iron you know? In this case however, I do not see the passage regarding woman pastors to be ambiguous in any sense and to claim that it is is to avoid a passage that makes one uncomfortable. We do not change the Bible to reflect the feeling of our hearts, we change our hearts so that they are in accordance with the Bible. I do believe that there may be good Bible teaching churches (such as yours, im assuming) that may have women as pastors, but in my opinion, its very rare/usually will lead to much more gross misuse of scripture. :)
@@bemple6344 From what I’ve read, to pretend that the verses you refer to are “plain” or “easily understood” is disingenuous. Understanding those passages in the light of how Paul actually behaved and actually ran the early church, as well as in light of other scriptures, to me, makes it far less clear. Why, for instance, should a woman cover her head when she is praying and prophesying, if she is supposed to remain silent in the first place? I understand there are many ways to see these various scriptures, and I don’t condemn you for your interpretation, but you seem less willing to extend such grace. I don’t think what you say is manifestly obvious is that at all. I do understand that many churches that “bend” on this topic may be more willing to bend on others. But you are also in error to state that this subject is manifestly obvious.
Hey there, Redeemed Zoomer: I - a queer atheist woman - have no clue why RU-vid sent this to me. I suppose the algorithm is yet another unknowable force that acts on us all in mysterious ways. I disagree with . . . well, it's faster for me to just say 'just about everything' you said; but I feel like that's unproductive. Instead, I'll say that I can give you a great deal of credit for explaining your thinking from theological, historical, and cultural standpoints. Whether I agree with you or not, I think that such an in-depth discussion helps to break down one of my biggest critiques of religious debates being 'is that a belief you came to yourself or held on to since the first Sunday you consciously remember?' It's obvious that your opinions have evolved over time and you've been open to their changing. I can respect that, and wish more people on other sides of the spiritual divide could do the same. Great builds, by the way! I'd recommend throwing some smooth stone in with the major church's cobble, and smooth diorite with the calcite for some visual variety: it helps builds to feel more like something built by human hands and lived in by human bodies.
Just passing by as a regular on this channel to say, as someone who probably disagrees with you on a great deal, this is a top tier quality and constructive comment, and conversation online would go much better overall if it looked more like this. As a Christian I say: God bless you. Have a great day.
This is a really commendable comment and I respect you for even clicking on this video, lol. As a Catholic man, all I’ll say is that having different roles in the church is about the complementary nature of man and woman as opposed to some sexist belief that men are inherently better than women or something stupid like that. I think even a lot of comments on this video go a little too far in the direction of saying women are incapable of theology or something, but I would encourage you to read about female Catholic Saints who have really been leaders and theologians in the Christian world for the better (Edith Stein comes to mind). Have a blessed day!
Your comment made me smile. Having such a respectful nature and well thought out comment on your views but finishing it with minecraft building advice was not what I expected and caught me off guard and made me laugh. You even worded your building advice so eloquently too!
I just don't understand how a self proclaimed atheist could claim to have any opinion on how Christians minister and worship. It would be like for me to have an opinion on worshipping Hindu gods over the roman pantheon. To us they are both misconceptions of the one truth.
I have a female pastor (Global Methodist). I would say she’s encouraged me to be more active in my faith and is conservative in her theology. I’ve had this theological dilemma about her being a pastor, but also credit her for what she has done for my congregation. I appreciate your video giving theological arguments that are respectful. God bless you!
A friend of mine grew up Fundamental Baptist, and she was just telling me last night how she had planned on getting a degree to do mission work, but she was told by some of the older women in her church "You cannot do mission work without a husband because women can only preach to other women"
IFB here we had single women missionaries here the philippines some of them established a church altho she did not pastor it. but most single women missionaries tend to become music teachers or teachers in general that assist churches that are in need.
I've commented before that i'm a bapthist and in my church don't allow women pastors and we have a higher view of pastors and general leadership roles, but in the sense of other sacraments like bapthism we believe that is important but mostly if not only when the decision comes from your own will. I'm a member of the Nova Igreja Batista (New Bapthist Church) from Manaus, Brazil and i'm learning a lot from you Zoomer! Keep up the good work!
"the decision comes from your own will." There's your heresy First of all the bible commands us to baptise everyone of all nations which includes infants. Infants can have faith according to 2 Timothy 3:15 and Luke 18:15-17. As for baptism being a decloration of you will, no, it saves and let's God do the work to build faith in you: The Bible explains that people enjoy the forgiveness of sins and eternal life by God’s grace through faith in Jesus Christ his Son (Ephesians 2:8; Romans 3:28). The Bible states that baptism gives people those very blessings of life and forgiveness (Acts 2:38; 22:16; Ephesians 5:26; Titus 3:5-7; 1 Peter 3:21). Baptism gives those blessings because of the powerful word of God that is attached to the water. VDMA
@@basketbasket1225I think you may be misunderstanding baptism. “Decision comes from your own will” is not to say that salvation comes from your own will, but your decision to follow Jesus and repent from your sins. Baptism is only meaningful in His name, which we can only do if we repent from our sins and accept Jesus Christ as our saviour (Acts 2:38). So then the question comes, how would an infant (in this case a literal baby) repent from their sins and accept Jesus, when they don’t even know Him? To my understanding this is why Baptists are so against infant baptisms (at least those of newborns).
Hey, I love your videos they’re very helpful and informative. I actually disagree with your opinions in this video, but your presentation and conclusions are so articulate and respectful. I’m from a VERY country Baptist tradition that tends to reach the same conclusions you have, but the approach is based on misogyny and opinions, not biblical hermeneutics. I recently finished my first theology degree and even that was frequently met with distaste. I appreciate that you are respectful to women in general and not derogatory. Often people have explained to me that “women can’t be pastors because they’re too emotion/unintelligent.” However you’re conclusions are consistent and biblically based. Thank you for sharing.
I honestly want to know how you could study every scripture on this matter and still disagree with it. There isn't a single scripture that points to women having authority over men being righteous. Some use that as an excuse for misogyny, sure, but God's order is not about anything other than spiritual life, and carnal reasoning will never fit with that because it's not supposed to. Men and women are two halves of the same whole, neither is less than the other, but both have different roles according to the word of god.
@user-iz8np3vv4i a judge in the bible is definitely not a pastor, I don't know where you pulled that from. Pastors are known as shepherds and angels, never referred to as judges. Judges in the book of judges were people who led others in battles against the cannanites. Deborah was NOT a pastor, she was a prophetess, which has nothing to do with teaching, which is the function of the ministry. Give me the scriptures that say that judges are pastors.
I don't judge strangers and I don't presume to know why you think the way you do, but I implore you to consider this: Just as some men oppose women pastors because of bias and not biblical teaching, is it possible you are affected by non-biblical biases yourself? What if God doesn't fit your standards? What if He is "misogynistic" in your eyes? Will He change, or must you? If none of that applies to you, that's ok. God bless you!
@@jack8162 jack8162 Taken from my short and free essay on Deborah below: A Judge at this time, was VERY different from a judge in our time. The Judge was over the nation of Israel. But not as a man, as King, or as a woman, as Queen, because God was not rejected as King as yet. God ruled Israel through the Judges. Wheresoever I have walked with all Israel, spake I a word to any of the judges of Israel, whom I commanded to feed my people, saying, Why have ye not built me an house of cedars? -excerpt 1 Chronicles 17 verse 6 KJV Major modern English translations like the NASB use the phrasing ...whom I commanded to shepherd My people... [PASTOR - Origin: late Middle English: from Anglo-Norman French pastour, from Latin pastor ‘shepherd’.] In all places where I have walked with all Israel, have I spoken a word with any of the judges of Israel, whom I commanded to shepherd My people, saying, ‘Why have you not built Me a house of cedar?’ -excerpt 1 Chronicles 17 verse 6 NASB translation Also: Also I will ordain a place for my people Israel, and will plant them, and they shall dwell in their place, and shall be moved no more; neither shall the children of wickedness waste them any more, as at the beginning, and since the time that I commanded judges to be over my people Israel. -excerpt 1 Chronicles 17 verses 9 and 10 KJV -God speaking to Nathan the prophet More, proving a Judge was a pastor: But it came about, when the judge died, that they would turn back and act more corruptly than their fathers, in following other gods to serve them and bow down to them; they did not abandon their practices or their obstinate ways. -excerpt Judges 2 What happened after Deborah's time?: Then the sons of Israel did what was evil in the sight of the Lord; and the Lord handed them over to Midian for seven years. -excerpt Judges 6 -first sentence Also, a Judge had the ultimate in spiritual authority. A Judge, according to scripture, had the authority to judge homicide cases. So if a Judge gave a verdict that a man had committed the sin of premeditated murder, the Judge could, and had to, order his execution. As his execution was required for this sin under the Law of the Old Covenant. Also, according to scripture, a Judge's verdict could not be altered or appealed. ... in accordance with the verdict which they tell you, you shall act; you shall not turn aside from the word which they declare to you, to the right or the left. -excerpt Deuteronomy 17
(edit: none of this comment is intending to say that women can be pastors, i'm just commenting on one part of the video) man..... i wasn’t even aware that a lot of womens' Bible studies are watered down theologically, because my friends and i are such theology nerds and it SHOWS in our Bible studies! plus, so much of my life is spent in defending orthodox teaching as well as arguing for my own theological views. i really hope that when i go to college, i'll get a good friend group of theology nerds as you describe that group of girls you know. i wanna be like that meme where it's like "get in the car loser, we're going shopping" but instead "get in the car loser, we're critically assessing the Marian dogmas" 🤝🤝🤝🤝
Yeah, don’t be discouraged! I am a man and generally I do find more men interested in studying theology, but I made a Bible study group with my best friends at college and it’s a mix of men and women. We really do get into deep theological and philosophical questions, and the women in our group are so deeply valuable to the conversation. Honestly it’s way more interesting to have a mix of perspectives. It’s just a matter of finding women who are interested in this stuff which is probably gonna be tough. I’m Catholic, and I do believe that only men should be priests and bishops because that’s the order of the Church passed down from the apostles, but the idea women are somehow inherently worse at theology and can’t bring the faith to others is a load of ridiculous heresy to me. Good luck out there!
@@addisonbreton-df2fc that’s really cool! I mentioned earlier that I’m Catholic but recently I’ve been trying to learn about other Christian denominations (I’m from Long Island NY and I really only grew up with Catholic, Jewish, and atheist people). If it’s not too personal or anything, could I ask why are you Lutheran (as opposed to any other Christian denomination)?
People definitely should stop using the Deborah example from Judges. That book is literally about the degradation Isrealites after then entered the promised lands. There was so much depravity and sin it wasn't even funny. Deborah, specifically, was used by God to show how weak and ineffective the men were, which was a catastrophic symptom. All in all, I'm always like "yikes" whenever I see people use that example.
you wrote: All in all, I'm always like "yikes" whenever I see people use that example. I wrote a short and free essay on Deborah. The sending of a Judge was a blessing. The Judges, according to scripture, were pastors.
I'd say that the type of women who want to become pastors tend to be more liberal since those with more orthodox views tend to stick more closely to women's traditional roles in the church. Obviously this isn't always the case but it's what I've noticed from the Anglicans and Methodists in my area at least.
As an Anglican, I can confirm that this isn’t always true. The woman priest at my church is pretty conservative and down to Earth. I see this more of a leadership issue than as a teaching issue, a formality thing. Priests here are rectors, it’s more of an umbrella teaching term in the Anglican Church. There are women priests out there who are very liberal, this isn’t good… but not all women priests are like that.
I haven’t watched a gaming video in a long time, but you’re the only channel I can see a video game and still click on. Honestly makes me wanna play Minecraft and talk for 25-35 minutes straight.
Yes, low church circles have much more leeway in “ordaining” women for ministry roles. Because most of our “pastoral” positions are not sacramental and don’t actually involve a woman usurping the man’s place of authority. Interestingly I’m low church and soft complimentarian (women can do anything if under the direct authority of a male lead pastor). But I also think head coverings in 1 Corinthians 11:1-16 apply today and have been abandoned by most of the church in the past 100 years
God bless you Gabriel just passing by to tell you that this is the first time I scroll through a comment that most aligns with the way I view women in ministry including head coverings.
Knowing theology is a must and an area I am seeking to grow in knowledge of. When we understand the Bible and understand theology, we will understand the roles we are to have in the church. Without that understanding, we put ourselves in a place to be deceived very easily.
There are no 'roles' in the New Covenant. If there is a gender qualification for elder, for example, then the priesthood of the New Covenant is a two-tiered priesthood based on birthright. But you are a chosen people, a royal priesthood... -excerpt 1 Peter 2
Last month I had a huge thing where I was arguing with my friend about this, it was being spoken in my church, my friend left his church because woman were preaching at it church, and it’s been pretty crazy. Conclusion? No they cannot be pastors. However, they can teach children and other women, but not men.
@@BeatDropSora I don't think anyone thinks that women are simply unable to teach men or that they wouldn't do a good job at it. It's just that the Biblical "gender role" structure does not leave much room for women teaching authoritatively from the Word at church gatherings. It's not that men are necessarily "better" at preaching than women, it's just that the concept of women preachers isn't in line with the order God intended with creation. Women, according to Paul, should be submissive, which obviously sounds horrible and misogynistic to our modern ears, but any way you slice it it's what the Scriptures say. Culture norms change like the wind, but God's order transcends time and place.
@@BenjaminAnderson21 it’s not that women can’t discuss theology with men, it’s that they can’t be priests. It naturally follows that a woman can’t preach a sermon because that is a priestly role. Also women are not instructed to “submit” to men wholesale. You’re bringing up a verse that’s about husbands and wives and trying to apply it to women’s role as a whole.
@@harrygarris6921 Of course women aren't to submit to all men in all situations and under all circumstances, and of course women aren't barred from ever discussing theology with men. That was never my point. Authoritatively teaching from the Word at church gatherings is a very specific role reserved for ministers (or what certain traditions call "priests," though as a Protestant I believe in the universal priesthood of the saints). It is not the same as sharing the gospel with someone or teaching them theological truths.
@@BenjaminAnderson21 quite honestly I didn’t know you guys had such a thing as authoritative teaching coming from people, even if they’re basing it on scripture. I was under the impression that only scripture itself was authoritative. If your tradition has authoritative interpretation as well that makes things more complicated because then that brings up the question of whether women can be biblical scholars or Bible translators, because if they’re doing that then they’re informing the authoritative tradition in some way.
Add this to the never-ending list of things that I, personally, thought the Bible was exceedingly clear on but that there's still somehow debate about. Reading the Word as it's written, it's crystal clear that the complementarian view is the godly one.
I feel the same as you. There are so many simple truths that are written in black and white and people still argue about it. It's in our nature to hate the will of God though, which is why Christ was sent to begin with.
Was just checking out this First Presbyterian church in Cedar Rapids IA. Over 175 years old, beautiful gothic architecture with stained glass windows...and a rev named Heather. Killed my interest just like that.
Im in a very unique position on this issue. Because ironically my mom is a pastor in a reformed chinese church, and she's very theological and a very logical type of women (and was raised in a very presbyterian home), she isn't like the typical stereotype of women on theology. But ironically enough on why i kinda cannot have an opinion on this because my mom originally didn't even want to become a minister when young, and every single church my mom used to work at would say how they missed my mom because of the terrible management of the male senior pastor (lol). And even though the Bible is quite clear on the role of women, I've seen my mom being the pastor that God really called, because the small church my mom is ministering can't have a pastor without my mom because there is no chinese speaking pastor (a city in indonesia) working full time for 13 years. My mom has a huge role in my relationship with God. And the funniest thing is, she herself is not even fully agree if women can be pastor according to the bible. And she doesn't recommend other women to become pastors lol. So for me, i refuse to have an opinion on this
it's nice seeing a fellow Indonesian around here. in my local congregation (a Lutheran church, the HKBP), our parish pastor is currently a woman. and as far as I can say, she's quite a humble pastor with theological knowledge equal to the men pastors. she's also been doing quite a good job managing the church, which for my church, the HKBP, the bar is usually simply "not stir up the entire congregation because of some slight disagreements." women pastors are quite usual in HKBP, but interestingly enough, the problems mentioned here simply don't occur in HKBP, which remains a largely conservative church, albeit very low church for a Lutheran church (with there also being a lot of Reformed influences in the church's liturgical and administrative practices) I must admit that I do not have that depth of biblical knowledge to have a thorough opinion on this matter, but from my experiences with women pastors in HKBP and other liturgical (non-Pentecostal) churches in Indonesia I've attended, it doesn't seem to cause that much problem here, given that, at times, men pastors aren't that much better either (my opinion based on my personal experience here, feel free to discuss)
As a Catholic woman, in my parish, women make up the majority of leadership positions that don’t involve sacraments and preaching at the pulpit. But we DOMINATE the classrooms and are mostly catechists. So, YES we DO need to be theologians, in the sense that women should be as intellectually challenged as men to learn and teach, to feed and to be fed spiritually and intellectually in the church. Seminary for Catholics is very different than for Protestants, so that’s obviously not a choice for me. I’m also not familiar with theological journals and what kind of papers they publish. But I’m down to reading the summa or other theologians works
"For every heresy, there is an equal and opposite reactionary heresy." Thanks zoomer for pointing this out, its really wonderful to see a theologically engaged "Christian influencer" (lol) who actually respects women and our mental and spiritual faculties, understanding that we're not a monolith any more than men. It is kinda sad how fashionable it has become amongst those who claim to be Christians to be extremely patriarchal in response to worldly radical feminism. In this day and age more than ever we need more women theologians, and more theologians in general!!!
The recent books "The Bible vs Biblical Womanhood" by Phillip B. Payne and "Tell Her Story" by Nijay K. Gupta have really opened my eyes on this topic. Both authors are reknown Greek scholars and have worked as senior translators on the NIV and the NLT translation teams, respectively. They helped me fully embrace my womanhood in Christ.
I would agree with its a women's job to raise the kid but I would also say its also the man's job to teach the kids because stats have shown that kids are more likely to keep believing in traditional Christianity when they had a God fearing father that did so and taught them. Yes women are often the ones to look after the kdis (bedtime meals etc) but fathers still have the responsibility to guide their children in the faith and to interact with their kids.
In my eyes, the most important argument to support women’s theological education is what was brought up near the end of the video about women being able to teach their children the gospel. Many mothers homeschool their children, and women ought to be stay at home moms either way, so it is ESPECIALLY important that we be well educated and informed about scripture, as well as fully able to teach it and answer our children’s questions and doubts as they arise. God bless you ❤
Don't always agree with you, but 8:40 - 9:26 was strait fire lol. That said I do think context matters more than you claim. Acts 10 comes to mind instantly "kill and eat" of course opens a discussion on a lot of the rules in older books like Leviticus that get thrown around by people who just want to justify whatever view, but EVERYONE ignores whatever part is convenient to them. 1 Cor 11 "judge for yourselves" tells me that some things are truly arbitrary and don't matter. Of course this is probably part of the reason why there's so many denominations. I think men and women have different strengths, but I find a sizable portion of that is how we raise our boys and girls in different gender roles and that there is overlap. I would rather have a female pastor that knows her stuff too, but their gender is not a priority for me.
In Hungary only the Reformed and Lutheran churches have female ministers. It is explicitly forbidden in the Baptist and Pentecostal conventions, and haven't heard of any female pastors in non-denominational churches (I know quite a few of them).
Yes oh my goodness, there is such an issue with shallow Bible studies for women. It’s so frustrating! I want to think through the theology myself and not just be told, and I want to do it with a group of other women. Dudes are great but I think everyone should be theologically literate
It's somewhat inconsistent to rank the question so low. If it's against the Scriptures for a woman to be a pastor, then everything a woman does as a "pastor" is suspect. If ordination is sacramental and only a man is validly ordained, then you will not receive anything from her that requires a validly ordained minister. This isn't Donatism. Augustine didn't rule out the idea of qualifications for ministry; he said that the personal holiness or sin of a valid minister doesn't qualify or disqualify the minister.
If your male pastor doesn't revere the sacrament the answer isn't a female pastor who reveres the sacrament, It is a male pastor who reveres the sacrament. And if the only pastor you can find who reveres the sacrament is a female, well if you are a Man then it looks like you got a job offering from God buddy.
I am a Christian and I really struggle with the complementarian belief because it is so often used as grounds for power imbalance and an 'excuse' for abuse. (This is by no means meant to be an attack on your beliefs, I really love your RU-vid channel and it has been so lovely to binge watch!) Whilst we have differing views on men and women's roles in the church, I also believe that ultimately if we are egalitarian or complementarian that it is not a salvation issue (which brings me great peace!). I find it so easy to watch videos like these and see people with a different view and panic and think God loves me less or is frustrated with me for disagreeing with some Christians and agreeing with others. It is so easy to get caught up in the little things and forget that we are saved by faith through grace alone. Thankyou for challenging my views and making such brilliant content! How exciting is it that we may get to meet and celebrate in heaven together
Complementarianism The priesthood of the New Covenant is tiered. There is a hierarchy. A new believer is automatically assigned their level, higher or lower, at the moment of salvation, as a birthright. Their gender determines their tier. A Christian can not move to a higher or lower tier. A church can be made up of only men, because men are in the higher tier. Men are the superior gender, being male, and therefore more like God who is masculine. Therefore men can be leaders, for example, elders. A church can NOT be made up of only women, because women are in the lower tier. Women are the inferior gender, being female, and therefore less like God who is masculine. Therefore women can't be leaders, for example, elders. So even a large group of women can not be a valid church under any circumstances. For this group of women to become a valid church, at least one man must join it as an elder. The addition of just one higher-tier Christian would instantly form a valid church. ____________________________________ But you are a chosen people, a royal priesthood... -excerpt 1 Peter 2 A 2-tiered priesthood doesn't exist, but this is what Complementarianism supports. It is a false teaching. It uses double-talk by telling women they are equal to men, yet states that women can't teach men. It states that a group of Christian women can not be a church under any circumstances.
Definitely not an official role like a priest or bishop,but it would be ridiculous to say they can't teach or preach at all. I've said this on another video but we have plenty of holy woman,(most of whom are saints) that no one would critize for preaching the will of God. Paul even had a disciple of sorts named Thecla who was a saint in the early church who was a woman.
I don't get one thing: what if there's a christian woman and a non-christian man (or he may be christian but its not mature in faith) isn't the woman in a position to teach this guy about Christianity?
I suggest my short and free essay on Deborah. Men and women are perfectly equal spiritually. She was a pastor, according to the scriptures. This is how the Judges are described. So Christian women can teach. The gospel message is a teaching. The first and most important.
@@gtothereal Taken from my essay below: THE REASON GOD SENT HER here: ...the Lord was moved to pity... And when the Lord raised up judges for them, the Lord was with the judge and saved them from the hand of their enemies all the days of the judge; for the Lord was moved to pity by their groaning because of those who tormented and oppressed them. -excerpt Judges 2 The sending of a Judge meant God was showing mercy to His people. It wasn't a judgment against them. Since Deborah was a woman, this scripture is sometimes used in error to describe her, in our time: My people! Their oppressors treat them violently, And women rule over them. My people! Those who guide you lead you astray And confuse the direction of your paths. -excerpt Isaiah 3 They are taking the prophetess Deborah and comparing her to Jezebel who murdered prophets. Has it not been reported to my master what I did when Jezebel killed the prophets of the Lord, that I hid a hundred prophets of the Lord... -excerpt 1 Kings 18 When a Judge died, THEN people were led astray. But it came about, when the judge died, that they would turn back and act more corruptly than their fathers, in following other gods to serve them and bow down to them; they did not abandon their practices or their obstinate ways. -excerpt Judges 2 After Deborah's time in Judges 4 and 5, we see confirmation of the people turning back and acting more corruptly than their fathers. Then the sons of Israel did what was evil in the sight of the Lord; and the Lord handed them over to Midian for seven years. The power of Midian prevailed against Israel. -excerpt Judges 6 first two sentences (above) When the shepherd over Israel died, the people went back into sin. That is because the Judge was the most important spiritual leader of this time period.
As a non zoomer I can’t even watch this video it makes me anxious but I like what you have to o say, I agree with most of it, your an intelligent dude and I like your videos 👍🇺🇸
I really think a huge gap between theology interest by sex is based more on actual differences between the sexes and interests, which holds in a multitude of fields.
@user-iz8np3vv4i where does the Bible say judges were pastors? Judges and the Levi priests were two different things. Also, God makes this point clear in 1 Timothy 2:12
@@william44011 Wheresoever I have walked with all Israel, spake I a word to any of the judges of Israel, whom I commanded to feed my people, saying, Why have ye not built me an house of cedars? -excerpt 1 Chronicles 17 verse 6 KJV Major modern English translations like the NASB use the phrasing ...whom I commanded to shepherd My people... [PASTOR - Origin: late Middle English: from Anglo-Norman French pastour, from Latin pastor ‘shepherd’.] In all places where I have walked with all Israel, have I spoken a word with any of the judges of Israel, whom I commanded to shepherd My people, saying, ‘Why have you not built Me a house of cedar?’ -excerpt 1 Chronicles 17 verse 6 NASB translation Also: Also I will ordain a place for my people Israel, and will plant them, and they shall dwell in their place, and shall be moved no more; neither shall the children of wickedness waste them any more, as at the beginning, and since the time that I commanded judges to be over my people Israel.
@@user-iz8np3vv4i There are 2 types of main manuscripts: the Alexandrian and the Byzantine (also called Antioch). The Byzantine manuscripts are proven here: Acts 11:21, 23, 19 (the Jews traveled as far as Phenice, Cyprus, & Antioch). Now the Alexandrian manuscripts came from Alexandria, Egypt. In Alexandria, Egypt, by Mt. Sinai, monks would copy the Byzantine manuscript. Every time they made an error like mistranslating a word, spelling it wrong, forgetting punctuation, etc. they would throw it in a garbage bin to burn in a furnace for the Monastery. In 1844, the German Chindorf went to Egypt and discovered the monks burning what he thought was the word of God. He asked the monks, they said they were burning false manuscripts. Chindorf still wouldn’t believe them and latter grabbed 43 copies and read them for 3 months. He went back to Europe and wrote “word for word” what he read (an old pastor of my church asked multiple people with photographic memories and they told him if they had the same opportunity of Chindorf, they will get it right up to a 70% accuracy). This is how the Alexandria manuscripts came about. You have manuscripts which have words taken out of them/changed, then a guy mistranslates them by 30%+; do you think this is more accurate than the Byzantine manuscripts, preached by the disciples of Jesus? Also all the Dead Sea scrolls match exactly with the KJV Here are some examples where the KJV is superior: -Titus 3:10, most modern translations use “divisive” instead of “heretic” which actually makes Jesus a sinner [NIV, NKJV, ESV, NASB, NLT] -Acts 1:3, modern translations take out the phrase “infallible proof” and replace it with “convincing” or another word which doesn’t mean 100% [NASB, NLT, NWT, NIV, ESV, Douay Rheims] -Philippians 2:5-8, Jesus’ deity is cast off by Himself in modern versions [NASB, NLT, NIV, ESV] -Acts 8:36-38, some get rid of verse 37 [NLT, NASB, NIV, ESV] -Isaiah 14:12, Lucifer’s name is replaced with morning star, day star, or raising star which are titles of Jesus [ESV, NASB] -Revelation 19:8, modern versions add deeds/acts to the verse; making it read as if the fine linen is given by works, rather than faith [NKJV, NWT, NLT, ESV, NASB] -Mark 16, some versions have it bracketed or footnoted from verse 1-7 and verse 20 (because they “think” it’s not Bible); or they cut it out [MSG, NWT, ESV, NLT, NIV, NKJV, NASB] -John 7-8, modern versions “chop it off” starting at 7:53 & 8:1-11 [NASB, NLT, ESV, NWT, NIV] You can look up where modern “bibles” took out verses and find many more Also, It doesn’t matter is they are leading others as a shepherd. King David did this, Gideon did this and none of them were priests
i used to go to a church that had a couple as senior pastors and a bunch of female pastors, now i just go to a church that has a senior male pastor and his son, their wives are also called pastors but never really preach (? i think its just for association, the only time i’ve seen them preach is with their husbands so i guess thats better than straight up egalitarism. i also think that it could be an issue that could be changed since my new church is relatively small. everything else doctrinal it’s safe for me so i guess i could extend grace in that particular issue even if i don’t agree with it (its also very hard to go to a church in colombia bt generally south america that doesn’t have a female pastor)
Good video, brother. I'd ironically push back, first to advocate for a kind of female pastorate, but then also to advocate having a higher view than you do for why women ought not be presbyters (go figure) 1.) Within Anglicanism, we operate with bishops, priests, and deacons. While women ought not be presbyters (which excludes them from being bishops or priests), i think theres actually strong precedent in Scripture and tradition for why women can and should be deacons. I'd even advocate for certain teaching spaces which are distinct from the ministry of word and sacrament (e.g. distinct from preaching and consecrating). 2.) I *do* think this is a really, really high level important issue. Youre right that egalitarians arent rank heretics; they are brothers and sisters. But egalitarianism theologically opens the door to being affirming precisely because egalitarianism strips any coherent theological basis for being non affirming. If egalitarianism were true, then there really is no deeper sacramental reason for why God restricts marriage to one man and one woman; it's a simply arbitraty fiat. And one can go that route--fair enough. But it's not a theologically satisfying account, and seems--apart from a deeper sacramental vision of sex and gender--to be just as arbitrary as restricting marriage between the races.
My brother Zoomer, i suggest you to low the music so your voice distinguish better. And I love your content, bruv, because is Pretty much reflects a lot Lk 16: 8 and the Project Reconquista. God bless you and I shall mentionate you more in my prayers, peace up, man! 🙏📈
The more you focus on abstract doctrine the more complimentarian people will be, seeing that being abstract requires a practical compliment. Eventually, a community with a solid abstract foundation will want the practical solution to this debate
No we cannot be pastors. We can certainly teach women and children though! So if we are to speak in a general sense of “can women minister to other women and to children” that is a yes
I don't think we play dumb out of fear of not being seen as womanly, generally. I think it's more often because most woman tend to want to avoid confrontation with men they don't know.
Women cannot administer the Sacraments because in the Sacraments, the priest is acting, "In Persona Christi" or in the person of Christ. And Christ was a man so therefore the priest must be a man.
I see this similarity in other religions too. For example in Buddhism, you are considered to be more fortunate if you are born male than a female, this is not to say that women aren't valuable at all, no. What they are saying is that male are more suited to continue learning the spiritual path.
In my church, my pastors wife preaches once in a great while, usually just Mothers Day. But I would not attend a church that had a woman as the main pastor.
Womens bible studies and studies of biblical womanhood are always watered down in my experience, or its just "be a proverbs 31 woman!!!!! Respect your husband!!!! Raise your kids with love!!!!" For the thousandth time even though I am childless and unmarried as of now, theres got to be more to it than that. I know God has plan, and that women and men are both of equal eternal weight to Him, but its hard to believe it sometimes when it seems like men have so much more spiritual and physical significance in His plan. It hurts.
As an atheist, this was one of the biggest turn offs for me when looking at Christianity. The women's groups are intellectually DEAD, and that's putting it gently. Literally like you said, just repeating "Be a proverbs 31 woman!! Be like Ruth!! Be like Esther!! Don't forget to SUBMIT to anyone with a p3n1s!!" uh, okay. These groups seem to encourage women to stop thinking altogether and just focus on laundry, dishwashing, and meal prep etc. for the rest of your life. And doing that stuff IS IMPORTANT, don't get me wrong, but I can handle more cognitively demanding tasks than that. Not to mention that if you are single w/ no kids as I am, you basically have no clearly articulated function in the Christian world. Even this video can only cite "well, they are supposed to raise kids" as the reason for me to know anything related to theology. That's it? That's the only reason I should learn things? It seems the church has no place for a woman like me, and god's plan certainly seems to have left me out of the final draft altogether. I definitely came away with the sense that women are insignificant and don't really offer anything much of value.
@erinsymone1645 I totally hear you, and I wish the Christian theological community at large better addressed these concerns because there are answers out there, but humans often want to bend scriptural interpretation to their own ends. I went most of my life thinking I was worth less than men and that because I had no inclination towards motherhood, I was a bad woman. I remember doing Bible studies about finding your Boaz when I has zero interest in marriage, or hearing stuff about how a womans authority should always be her father or her husband (not biblical btw even though it is often taught under biblical pretense) as if she cannot live as an adult without a male authority figure just as mortal and fallible as she. What's funny is that the APOSTLE PAUL literally says that it is better not to be married at all if you can help it!! Which goes for both men and women. Also, he specifically praises women in the new testiment who are selfless and tireless in serving and growing the church, in the context of their work and not their husbands and children. Clearly, the Apostle Paul thought there should be more to Womans life, and I hope more fundamental types catch onto that. Nowadays, I am doing much better because I found my current church community. They have been so wonderful at recognizing this deficit that exists in biblical womens discourse and taking discussions of biblical womanhood OUTSIDE of marriage and family as seriously as biblical manhood. Though I still don't have all the answers, I have seen God's love for me in new ways, and though I haven't found peace yet, I no longer live in self-hatred. And I know that His plan involves more than just marriage and kids, not that those aren't important or a part lol, but that should be NO ONES whole identity, man or woman.
@@erinsymone1645 Well of course. You are an atheist. You reject it because you are "turned off" by these truths. To you, religion is more akin to therapy. Yes, having children is the greatest thing you can do. No, you are not so "intellectual" as to be different.
My local priest is a woman. She is the kindest and most positive person I have ever met. She's friendly with basically everyone in the community, she's very engaged, and her preaching always feels electric and alive. Our Vicar has nothing on her, honestly. She's also studied theology at Harvard, and that's quite the flex. I don't reckon she's replaceable by anyone, at least not until Paul himself comes to teach at our church.
I can definitely understand where you're coming from. The thing that's hard for us in the modern day is breaking away from our utilitarian mindset--"women pastors do such a great job caring for the Lord's sheep, why on earth would we want to hinder the Gospel by barring them from doing that?" But it isn't about what we see as the best way to arrive at the desired outcome. It isn't about our way of doing things at all. It is about God's way of doing things, God's command and God's order. God says authoritative teaching is a role for men, not women. And when God speaks, there is no more argument to be made.
Every institution that has let women affect the doctrine, has fallen apart. When did the United States start falling apart? When did main line churches start falling apart?
Am I the only person here who met an actually good woman priest? She is amazing, very down to Earth yes. I think The Bible says that girls don’t have authority over boys is more of a formal thing. In my church, being a priest is more about teaching than leadership. Priest is more of an umbrella term that both genders can be in.
First of all, enjoyed the video and I do agree with most of what you said here. I've always been of the opinion that women should not be pastors, but should still be theologically knowledgeable in order to be able to teach. I've known many women who were theologically intelligent and I have learned many things about the Bible and have had my faith strengthened by them. There is one area in which I do disagree with you however, and that is when you talk about context. I do agree that context being thrown out there is often used as a crutch for inserting personal feelings on a Biblical topic, especially when the person saying it does not have the knowledge of history to truly back up their statement. But often times context does completely change what is being said (though in the case of this video it does not). One example for the importance of context is Matthew 5:38-42. Without cultural context, it sounds like Jesus is telling us to allow our oppressors just to get away with abusing and walking all over us. However, add in the cultural context and it's Jesus preaching passive resistance, one could argue to the level of malicious compliance against oppressors and abusers. So while I do agree saying "context" is an argument for those who don't have an argument, it is also very important to understanding the true meaning of a passage of scripture in many circimstances.
...because the hair instead of a covering hath been given to her... In your own selves judge ye; is it seemly for a woman uncovered to pray to God? doth not even nature itself teach you, that if a man indeed have long hair, a dishonour it is to him? and a woman, if she have long hair, a glory it is to her, because the hair instead of a covering hath been given to her;... -Young's Literal Translation (YLT) Does even nature itself not teach you that if a man has long hair, it is a dishonor to him, but if a woman has long hair, it is a glory to her? For her hair is given to her as a covering. -NASB A woman's long hair is the 'covering'. My thoughts: post length 4 minutes, scriptures outside of Corinthians mostly Essay by another: post length 12 minutes, scriptures only within Corinthians Reply for post(s) if desired. They includes scriptures and commentary.
@@ashleysbored6710 Sorry for the delay. I received no notification. (This is happening more and more.) My thoughts are below, some at least, outside of Corinthians. _________________________________________ Every man who has something on his head while praying or prophesying disgraces his head. -NASB version If the above scripture means a turban, for example, why would God require the priests to wear turbans? Paul certainly would have known about this and maybe seen it. You shall speak to all the skillful people whom I have endowed with the spirit of wisdom, that they make Aaron’s garments to consecrate him, that he may serve as priest to Me. And these are the garments which they shall make: a breastpiece, an ephod, a robe, a tunic of checkered work, a turban, and a sash. They shall make holy garments for your brother Aaron and his sons, so that he may serve as priest to Me. -excerpt Exodus 28 Jesus prayed with something on His head while on the cross. A crown of thorns. And they dressed Him in purple, and after twisting together a crown of thorns, they put it on Him; and they began saluting Him: “Hail, King of the Jews!” -excerpt Mark 15 And Jesus, crying out with a loud voice, said, “Father, into Your hands I entrust My spirit.” And having said this, He died. -excerpt Luke 23 ******************************************* At least twice a woman's hair was not only visible to Jesus Himself, but it touched Him. Neither woman was rebuked. Since Jesus didn't care about fabric head coverings why should we? “Do you see this woman? I entered your house; you gave me no water for my feet, but she has wet my feet with her tears and wiped them with her hair. You gave me no kiss, but from the time I came in she has not ceased to kiss my feet. You did not anoint my head with oil, but she has anointed my feet with ointment. Therefore I tell you, her sins, which are many, are forgiven-for she loved much. -excerpt Luke 7 Mary then took a pound of very expensive perfume of pure nard, and anointed the feet of Jesus and wiped His feet with her hair; and the house was filled with the fragrance of the perfume. But Judas Iscariot, one of His disciples, the one who intended to betray Him, said, “Why was this perfume not sold for three hundred denarii and the proceeds given to poor people?” Now he said this, not because he cared about the poor, but because he was a thief, and as he kept the money box, he used to steal from what was put into it. Therefore Jesus said, “Leave her alone... -excerpt John 12 ************* It can only mean the hair is the covering, as the NASB states here: Does even nature itself not teach you that if a man has long hair, it is a dishonor to him, but if a woman has long hair, it is a glory to her? For her hair is given to her as a covering. ********************************************************* doth not even nature itself teach you, that if a man indeed have long hair, a dishonour it is to him? and a woman, if she have long hair, a glory it is to her, because the hair instead of a covering hath been given to her; ... -Young's Literal Translation (YLT) 1 Corinthians 11 verse 13-15 ************ No Old Covenant law requiring women to wear a fabric covering. Therefore no Old Testament reference available. 1 Corinthians 11 starts with this: ...hold firmly to the traditions, just as I handed them down to you... Be imitators of me, just as I also am of Christ. Now I praise you because you remember me in everything and hold firmly to the traditions, just as I handed them down to you. But I want you to understand that Christ is the head of every man, and the man is the head of a woman, and God is the head of Christ. Every man who has something on his head while praying or prophesying disgraces his head. But every woman who has her head uncovered... So, there was no Old Covenant law requiring women to wear a fabric covering. There was no time to establish a tradition of a fabric covering. There was no way to "hold firmly to the traditions" because you can't start a 'tradition' in a period of time that is just a few years. ************ If the covering was a physical covering, then hair length is irrelevant. No one would know if the woman had long hair or no hair. ************ If a woman needs to touch and pick up something physical, before acceptable communication with deity can happen, that would make the fabric covering a talisman. Though the woman would not believe she is using a talisman. talisman (basic definition)- a piece of clothing (or other physical object) that is believed to have spiritual (or magical) properties. The object will align with your intention for its use. Every time you look at a talisman, your mind will recall the original intention of its use, until wearing it becomes a necessary ritual. ************
You should remove the mouse clicks from the audio track it’s a 10 second input with a noise reduction tool, and it would make listening to the video a lot nicer
I think also as a practical matter, I’ve been told I should try to become a pastor because then we could BOTH be pastors, but…. Why does one couple also need two churches? I’d rather just watch my husbands service. Also I’ve been told that in the Korean tradition, the Pastors wife has the unique role of helping women in the community in a way that the pastor cannot, because he’s not a woman. He can’t relate to all the things women go thru.
I know you have said that you don’t consider Reformed Baptists truly Reformed, but does this include those that follow the Confession of Faith (1689)? From an outsider’s perspective, this seems distinct from MacArthurite types and who I would call “TULIP Baptists” or Particular/Regular Baptists.
...because the hair instead of a covering hath been given to her... In your own selves judge ye; is it seemly for a woman uncovered to pray to God? doth not even nature itself teach you, that if a man indeed have long hair, a dishonour it is to him? and a woman, if she have long hair, a glory it is to her, because the hair instead of a covering hath been given to her;... -Young's Literal Translation (YLT) A woman's long hair is the 'covering'. My thoughts: post length 7 minutes, scriptures outside of Corinthians mostly Essay by another: post length 7 minutes, scriptures only within Corinthians Reply for post(s) if desired. They includes scriptures and commentary.
The actual core issue is, “what is church?” If all it is, is a gathering where we read the Bible, then yeah, women are not allowed to teach or preach. But if what church is, is a commemoration of the lords death and resurrection in which the sacraments are administered, then it’s completely fine for women to speak outside the context of the mass.
I mean it sounds like at 6:00 you’re doing the same thing. Lie Jesus said give to the poor and heal the sick, so just like do that . Yes, build hospitals and have charities, but also pray for them directly for an immediate healing and give your personal money directly to them. He said what He said. We’re not over spiritualualizing it if we pray for miracles, you’re underspiritualizing it. Don’t forget that “cast out demons and raise the dead” are in that same statement, and both of those are inherently spiritual.
