You should Warren! It reminds me of the old Roland guitar synths that were popular in the late 90's-early 2000's but made wireless, tiny, and USB compatible. It has almost no latency issue and the setup is tediuous because of the Triple-Play's sensitivity; but if you ever setup one of Roland's Synth pickups you'll have no problem with one of these. I love running Kontact with it!
I only play at home, with a laptop. If you don't mind that, there is a vst that is almost as good: Midi Guitar by Jam Origin. A friend even uses it for his music production. LOL, I just realized who the OP is! Well, my recommendation goes for anyone who reads this. I love playing midi instruments with a guitar. Plus, since it's a vst, you can use any guitar without any hardware installation.
Watch out for MIDI Violin. A violinist's bow is capable of controlling about 5 different parameters of a sound at once, and if tracking improves for audio -> MIDI and the bow direction/speed/pressure/curve/tone can be analyzed, violinists will not only be able to play synths, but actively control the entire sound the synth makes through all of the active envelopes we learn to control with our classical training
For anyone who wants to try this sorta thing out on a budget, there's actually a plugin by Jam Origin called MIDIGuitar2 that effectively does what the Fishman pickup does, but without the pickup. It uses your DI signal to track pitch and it's actually not too bad. The latency and tracking is probably better on the Fishman, but for the price of MIDIGuitar2, it isn't a bad alternative.
Someone actually measured the latency of Midi Guitar 2 and it was around 10 milliseconds. I'd say that's decent. Also one of the pros of MG2 is that you can use any audio source on it, not just an electric guitar. Try singing in to it. I bought MG2 last month and I am having fun with all the possibilities it provides.
The downside to using a pluggin for Midi over a guitar track is that it will be "Monophonic" meaning it can only see one note at a time. Post processing this can be useful but the Triple play has a sensor on each string so you can play all 6 strings and get 6 different midi-notes at the same time. The other thing that Glen didn't talk about was the tab making - which was my main reason for buying one. You can play your song to a metranome in the software and it till tab it out for you instantly even noting what string you're playing (it may need some help with slides with a manual edit from time to time). Last I checked tabbing can only be done in standard tuning, which is why I don't use it (it's been a couple years since I used it, they may have a patched drop tuning in by now).
Jacinth Clifton The other guy said it first, but he's right. MG2 is polyphonic. It can take some tweaking to get some of the settings right with your chosen instrument, but it's an awesome plugin worth the price of admission. Also, I'm pretty sure that MG2 can be used to tab parts out. Not sure if you can do it in real time though. You can change the tunings though!
Wagakki band plays their metal stuff on traditional instruments like Shamisen, Flute, Gongs, Gayageums and Japanese drums. If it makes sounds, it could metal.
Iirc they used guitar synths on Somewhere in Time, but moved to just using keyboards to record Seventh Son because it was less fiddly. But I could be wrong...
Seventh Son was all keyboards, no guitar synths (the arpeggiator in the intro buildup and ending of Moonchild MIGHT be Adrian Smith on a guitar synth...H is credited with "synths," and Steve Harris is credited with "string synths"; based off of their live stuff, I think H did the Moonchild stuff [he wrote the song with Bruce] and Steve did all the rest of the keyboard work for the album).
Glad you mentioned Jeniffer Batten. She´s so underrated for what she´d accomplished during her carreer. Also Steve Stevens used and stil uses guitar synths a lot during live shows.
Gotta warn yas, its pretty addictive once you dial it in 100%. Got a Roland GK3 mounted onto a Schecter KM6 into a GR-55 and a SY-1000. Can spend days just browsing patches.
These videos that display something completely different technology vise are just the best. Especially the effort you put in to show and explain the history and legacy of said technology. I hope you'll put these on a playlist that they all deserve :) And MORE please! :)
In recent years, Boss and Electro Harmonix released guitar synthesizer pedals that do not require an external pickup. I own a Boss SY-300, SY-1, an Electro Harmonix Synth 9 and Mel 9. They work pretty good, and if you're careful, there are no tracking problems. I use them with guitar, sitar, and dilruba (I don't play metal, but I love your channel, and learn new things every time I check in). These pedals function exactly the way you described; they add a new and deeper dimension to the sound. You can also bring them to the foreground and do some insane things! Years ago, I modified a Roland GK pickup and attached it to my sitar. It sounded like a Jimi Hendrix concert! Scared the hell out of everyone! I highly recommend them.
Glenn, this was an excellent timeline on the development of synths and midi as well as guitar synth. I have this Fishman unit, and that it permits interfacing with a DAW as well as allowing the guitar's usual pickups to be run through an effects chain allows ultra flexible improvising.
For anyone looking to play around with guitar synth, check out MidiGuitar 2. I believe they're still offering a free demo and it functions without the synth pickup, though the tracking is far from perfect. So glad to see this technology getting some attention 👍
I remember around 1988, or the beginning of '89. Jerry Garcia had a MIDI set up. He had it installed on a strat. He would only use it for the song "I Will Take You Home". Then by the end of '89 he'd had the pick-up installed in his custom Doug Irwin so he could use it all the time. I remember the night Brandford Marsalas sat in with them in March of '89. Jerry had the MIDI horn going and he and Brandford got a harmonized lick going.
When i was actively playing in bands, there were two keyboard players in the town that did metal.. There were dozens of guitarist.. The other keyboard player was Henkka from Stratovarius.. And no, i am nowhere near him in skills, i was more a mood creator and programmer. So yeah, based on my anecdotal experience, learning to play keyboards in a metal context, pays off.
The historical overview on guitar synths was very cool! I can see this being useful in a metal context, adding different textures to augment the guitars.
This video is a great overview video of Guitar and Synth, but awesome to see the modern adaptations and that we're moving back into synth territory in the 2020's.. I've gotten heavily into Eurorack this year and have used it as an ambient machine, a drum machine, and overall processor for my songs! I made sure to include the Intellijel Audio I/O into my case so I can also plug my guitar directly into the Eurorack, use Voltage Control Amplifier modules to increase the translated CV, and then filter, delay, or decimate from there.. Using other modules within the case to provide gate or cv outputs into other permeators or modules you are running your audio signal to and get some amazing outcomes! :) Also, Eurorack is great with Midi keyboards as well.. As a guitarist, Eurorack was an investment well worth it, but you could definitely do alot with a unit like this! First unit I've seen to combine a guitar with synth vsts to create patches. I wonder if you could use the Fishman unit to also relay signal through Eurorack vsts..?
I absolutely love it. I’ve read the comments and it isn’t clear that the FTP doesn’t have a sound, because it’s a data transfer device. It sends your performance to the PC wirelessly, and tracks pitch, velocity, and sustain. These performance aspects can be further tweaked with panning values and assigned to anything. It also bears mentioning that quality virtual instruments are sampled extensively at multiple velocities, so they are capable of conveying emotion. The FTP is a great way to connect to another world of sounds. It is resource intensive, so having a clean PC, running optimally will aid in latency, SSD drives a huge plus. I use a Microsoft Surface Pro (tablet) with external USB3 SSD. Effects processing with synth sounds is so much fun, a dream come true for me. Softsynths are exceptional these days, and a single instance offers any virtual effect you could imagine, automated control over parameters. Not to mention the accessibility to the MIDI data in Piano Roll, where you can shift things around and assign the notes to anything. As others have said, the song sounds KILLER, and those drums are so powerful, amazingly well done. Love it. Big 👍 from me. 😜
So here's a question for you. I'm just a basement thrasher. I love music, but am not a pro by any means. I just like making noise. As a result, it just doesn't make sense to drop a ton of money on gear. That is why I am so grateful that you introduced me to amp sims and impulse responses. My question is, is there an impulse response that simulates a Leslie amp speaker? I like some of the songs from the 70s that use a Leslie.
KnapfordMaster98 Turbo is the epitome of listening with your eyes. I first heard Turbo lover accompanied by the black and purple reissue art. I thought it was one of the coolest sounding and looking things I had ever heard, and I immediately thought “oh I know exactly what they were going for and I love it.“ But then I found out it wasn’t the original art, and when I saw the original cover I thought “oh no I can definitely see how this was misunderstood.“ I know that’s all psychological, but I really wonder if there is something there. I wouldn’t exactly call myself a metalhead, I love 80s hard rock but at the same time I love Cindy Lauper and stuff like Til Tuesday, so I’m more open to crossover with rock. I think a lot of that 80s pop “cheese“ has immense charm and heart to it.
You complained in the other video that no one watched this. So I watched it. You’re welcome. With that being said, why did you leave out Roland? I picked up a VG8 Expanded for about $125 recently, and sometimes you can get the pickup and cable thrown in on the deal. Some of us poor “kids” had to wait about 25 years to the price to come down from $1000. We just weren’t going to get that when I was growing up. Gear like that was a dream back in the day. Definitely don’t want any of this to come off as dickish, so on a positive note- I had never seen the Fishman pick up before. Very very interesting. Also - I love your channel. You’re the Sam Kinnison of gear show hosts. Screaming at everyone to put down their bongs. I love it!! Keep up the good work Glenn!!
Karl Sanders used one quite a bit early on with Nile. I was fortunate to see them just before In Their Darkened Shrines was released, and got a kick out of Karl dicking with his guitar synth, floor keyboard, laptop, regular guitar playing and doing vocals. It was was pretty impressive.
I had a Roland GK-3 pickup but relying on that short cable was kinda frustrating. I sold it now and put the Fishman on my Thomann wishlist. Especially as I got the EastWest Composer Cloud, this will be really nice.
I messed around with guitar synths for a few years. Regardless of the sounds they may or may not make, there's no better way to improve your technique than trying to wrestle with something that's perpetually a moment away from sounding like a cat having a fit on a keyboard if your fretting or muting isn't absolutely up to scratch.
I have an idea for the next video in this series. Can you play metal on a lap steel guitar? I am thinking of Pink Floyds ”One of these days” which uses a lap steel with effects, so hearing it in metal would be very interesting.
Tracking midi tracks for EZbass, Eurobass II, Modo Bass; creating Guitar Pro Tabs faster, addig keyboards to a song without having a keyboard around - I got high hopes for this stuff. If the latency is killer, Dino Cazares can trigger kick drums with his picking while his drummer can smoke a cigarette watching it.
Definitely have to look into the Triple Play for convenience alone. I am a big GK-3 13 pin pickup nerd and Roland/Boss GR/GP unit user. I do prefer the idea of the older fashioned wired up system since its passive, the tracking is instantaneous, and the pickups also work with V Guitar system modeling taking the flat signal the GK-3 picks up, and doing some rather stunning modeling of other pickups and acoustic instruments with the ability to use palm mutes, pinch and false harmonics, and generally natural dynamics. I am sure the Fishman will have that capability in time.
The Syntheaxe also didn't use pitch-to-voltage conversion so there was no latency like with the Roland synths. You think that ARP thing was expensive? The Syntheaxe was 20 grand IIRC. I wish Roland licensed their tech after they went out of business so we'd have that now, but that would have meant abandoning all the R&D they did to make pitch to voltage work better.
i use a Roland GR20 guitar synth, it is a great addition to the sound when mixed in with the guitar signal. You need to modify your playing to get the most out of it, though If you play like normal the isolated synth tracks sound like a demented keyboard player following the guitar riff. I LOVE IT!!!!!
Guitar + synths is a match made in heaven, I'm glad that this topic came up and has been making somewhat of a comeback, Misha from Periphery has used a similar trick to add texture to an already existing guitar line blending both together (as seen in one of his documentaries about how they made a Periphery record, "Stay indoors" I think it was called) and synths are completely different monsters of an instrument compared to a guitar or piano since you have total control over what you trigger with a key (or string in this situation), this is a thing I would like to see more proper integration since electronic music such as Trance (usually mislabeled as -Techno-), DnB, Goa/Psy and so on share a bit of the same modes and scales also found in metal, they have a tendency to go with minor sounding melodies and strong rhytmic foundations. However I would love to see it working with my own self-made patches on Sylenth, RePro and other synths, hopefully if this gains any popularity or force we can enjoy some cool blues synth solos like the one on Infected Mushroom's Heavyweight and also hopefuly it would lead to more people into synths and sound design.
The jamorigin plugin "midi guitar 2" is quite phenomenal as well.. You miiiight want to check it out. Given you have a reasonably fast interface with a computer that doesn't date from Mathusalem, that plugin is almost as fast as the Fishman... At a fraction of the price. What's cool is that you don't need extra gear. Plug your guitar in your interface, launch the plugin.. and you're done. You can feed that thing's midi out to any VST. Pair it with kontakt, and you have one meaaaaaan synth axe.
I know this is sponsored by Fishman and all that but after trying that and multiple types of midi guitars I’ve found that I enjoy the Jam Origin Midi Guitar 2 software the most. It’s just software that converts your signal to midi without requiring any special pickups or guitar modifications. Very affordable too! I’d recommend it to anyone curious about midi guitar technology. I may still buy an Artiphon Instrument 1 just because I like the idea that it’s not trying too hard to be a guitar without actually being one, unlike the Jammy which is more frustrating than it is useful. I’m going to be selling mine soon. The RockBand Mad Catz Fender Mustang is pretty cool but is built to feel more like a toy than a real instrument/tool(I actually found one at Goodwill for $10). The You Rock Guitar looks like a level up from that, but still falls into the toy category.
Now I need to go listen to modern Iron Maiden stuff because there's ALOT of guitar synth work in there. Goddamnit now I want a triple play, but I don't got a guitar suitable for one atm x-x
Nice video as always, Glenn. I think a guitar synth would work for metal but it depends on the needs of the band, especially if they are more experimental. I would use it to give some atmosphere for some rhythm parts combining amp and synth sounds. As a suggestion for future videos, you should try these concepts: - Can you play Metal on a Brian May's Red Special? (yes, I know Queen played 'Stone Cold Crazy' but I talk about more heavy sounds) - Variax vs the real deal, what should you buy?. Greetings from Chile.
When you get into layering guitar tones with synth sounds, you have a bigger range of sound. I say this of experience, having once owned the ROLAND GR-20, GR-33, and currently the BOSS SY-300.
That's pretty cool. I myself prefer keyboard MIDI controllers. But it's great to see that guitar players have an opinion. There are loads of synth plugins so you can craft your own sound. Some free options include Vital, Odin 2, and Helm. I would love to see more metal bands using synths. Jump by Van Halen and The Final Countdown by Europe wouldn't be what they are without the synths. Keep in mind that modern MIDI works with old gear. If you get a MIDI to USB deal; you can plug that in to and school keyboard and rout the MIDI guitar to it in Reaper. Since I use a mix of USB MIDI and 5 pin DIN MIDI; I find myself using MIDI routing in Reaper a lot. It works great. Just set the track input to the MIDI device (the guitar synth) and set the track output to whatever device you want to control.
I was so confused when I saw Fishman in Sweetwater's guitar brands list. I was even more confused when I clicked on it and didn't see a single guitar. Now I know what these things are.
Hi Glenn ! Love that, as a huge synth user and guitar player, this could make my workflow way more efficient ! Btw if you're curious about heavy metal synth rythms, I urge you to listen to a bit of darksynth/darkwave/whatever it's called nowadays. Artists like Carpenter Brut, Perturbator (who played at the Hellfest/Download festival) or Hollywood Burns are largely inspired by metal and some if not most of them have downright heavy riffs on synth. Great stuff ! Cheers from France mate !
One trick that can really help with single note melodies is to switch the vsti to monophonic and it eliminates most ghost notes, that midi guitar is notorious for on poly mode, i have a discontinued yourock midi toy like guitar and it works, also tried it on the midi guitar plugin that is a plug-in of a midi pickup
You should really look at VCV Rack. It's a freeware standalone modular synth application that can be used as an effects processing unit or guitar synth, it can interact with your interface so you can route audio and midi between your DAW and the program (If you use Reaper it will even work with Rearoute as a virtual software interface so you don't even need a hardware interface to route audio and midi between the two programs)
I use roland gk-3 pick up with gp 10 processor. I am from india and here we have to play mostly bollywood songs. We are expected to play bass, guitar, acoustic guitar, 12 string guitar, mendoline, sitar etc. So this pick is a huge help. Also you can use alternate tunings without actually tuning your guitar. Though for my electric guitar sound i would still switch to normal pick ups. Which you can do by a push of a button. I am sure midi pick ups are mostly use by indians
Psh can't believe i missed this when you uploaded it, I love synth tones but can't really play keys this with one of those synth9 pedals would be great for busking.
Always loved the idea of having a guitar synth but eventually gave up, because it was always so weird to play and the tracking was strange. The best one i had was the latest one from Roland but still not convinced. Then I took some time and learned to play keys, which imo just makes more sense, delivers a better result and is also very useful in a composing context.
tactually Moog a major player in the synth market began making synths back in 63 along with other companies these were all modular and were ridiculously expensive and a bigger predecessor to synths was the theremin
An alternative question, is there any instrument you can't play metal on or even better is there any instrument that hasn't yet been used to play metal with somewhere in the world?
Thanks for the background! i remember getting Iron Maiden's Seventh Son (or was it Somewhere int Time) in the late 80s and being mystified as to what a guitar synth was. And of course, that was the "keyboards suck" era of metal so it was extremely concerning to see that in the liner notes.
Will the fishman record seperate strings? I currently use a breakout box with three Roland synths: VG88, GR33, & GR1. The breakout box is custom handcrafted from a reputable engineer/musician. I record all six pickups plus the regular DI onto seven seperate tracks with Focusrite Scarlett 18i20. It tracks better than midi when retriggering the GR33 and GR1 synths and is a must have for reamping Roland virtual guitars such as the VG88. I can also reamp single or groups of strings with or without the DI pickup through normal amps/cab/sims/IR, but the GK2/3 pickup does not have the full dynamics that regular guitar pickups have, but is good for adding background depth with various characteristics for each string that can be either subtle or drastic between the strings. I also use Midiguitar2 to convert old DI tracks into synth and sample tracks. While I like both the tracking and wireless capabilities that Fishman Tripleplay offers and had considered buying it a couple of years ago, I decided to wait until it can record seperate strings. Any word on this ever happening?
Thanks for the history lesson, Glenn. I didn’t ask for it or expect it, but it was a welcomed surprise. Side note; I really need to get one if these. I’d much rather perform the synth lines in my music than program them. I can’t play keys to save my life.
What a wonderful and comprehensive review of guitar synths. It would have been good to see King Crimson referenced for their excellent use of guitar-synth in the 80's.
I should add, I've really wanted to try a particular kind of guitar synth I'm not sure is being made any more, where note data is ascertained by the frets and strings completing a circuit when they come into contact (thus, the string touching, say, the fifth fret completes a particular circuit, and a different circuit for the sixth fret etc.), rather than having some bit of software which tries to work out what note you're playing. I can imagine it tracks an awful lot better with, of course, the significant downside of it being much, much, *much* more hassle to install in a guitar.
