Canada's Small Airplane Problem 

As a dash 8 captain (at the moment) in the US, I love them. Pain in the butt to learn the systems due to overly complicated designs, but robust, safe, and cheaper to operate.

Now that you've brought it up, we definitely need a coast-to-coast journey on turboprops!

Now i'm really tempted to book an all-turboprop trip from the east coast to B.C.... Great video, liked!

The cuts highlight the need for some passenger rail routes to be reinstated to serve these communities. Many of these cut off communities either still have direct service or a nearby rail line being used for freight.

I think Bombardier really made a mistake by stopping the production of the DHC-8-202 and DHC-8-311Q. These small aircraft are really essential for smaller communities and are a lifeline. Likewise, Beechcraft made the same mistake by ending production of the 1900. Same with Saab with the Saab 340. I've travelled to Campbell River and Courtenay this summer with Pacific Coastal. These flights are a lifeline for these communities to the outside world and really can't see how Pacific Coastal can survive when these awesome aircraft reaches the end of their lives.

We call the Beechcraft the "flying gascan" for rural BC flights. If you sit in the back bench (yes, bench) and hold the walls, you can make the plane shake on the tarmac.

Another choice for 50-seater is Dash 8-Q400 Combi. Many remote communities may not have sufficient passenger demand for a 80-seat prop but the cargo/parcel demand is there. Q400 does have a combi version. Japan Airlines' subsidiary RAC has 5 Q400 Combis that it ordered directly from Bombardier. They have 50 seats only and have the 1/3 of the back cabin for cargo. This is a viable option to replace the 50-seat Dash 8-300 technically, keeping the passenger seat number the same but increasing cargo capacity.

I've flown a lot on the Q400 version of the Dash 8, and... I'd pick it any day over the CRJ or other commuter jets. Less cramped, more space in the overhead bins, and the active noise cancelling (the "Q" in "Q400") goes a long way to making it not that much louder than a jet.

Norway has a similar problem with most of their runways being short in northern towns, making anything but the STOL Dash 8 100s the only option to operate. The only other replacement is to step down to the levels of King Airs and the like, but THAT wouldn't be well received though by the customers.

I like the Dash 8 turbo props. Flying from alberta to nova scotia, it was always my favorite part of the commute

Really interesting. Phenomenal stuff as always. Yes over the past few years we have seen Jazz get rid of its smallest airplanes, and take on the E175. Hope to see the baby dash make a return someday.

I was a millwright that worked at remote community water treatment plants for 6 years, I've been in all of these turboprop aircraft. The atr felt like the side by side of the group and landing on a rough gravel strip was way less terrifying than the rest.

I have flown the 1900, the dash 8 classic, the A220, the a320 and the a330 and I have to say that the dash8 was the perfect balance between hand flying and a coffee machine! I miss that airplane!

Alex, a couple years ago GE told Saab "we have a new engine ready to certify if you will build a new 34 seat prop". 34 seat planes will be a much needed segment in a decade.

Thanks Alex. A great look at the Canadian regional aircraft situation. Here in Australia we have similar issues with many small towns that can’t support regular air services. It will be interesting to see what the next generation of regional aircraft look like and their efficiency levels. Whether that is hybrid or electric ⚡️ it’s really time for some new tech.

I flew Dash-8 300's for Atlantic Coast Airlines from 1993-1996. This is a COMPLEX aircraft! You CANNOT even believe the electrical system on that plane, and even the flap mechanism puts a 727 or even a Hawker-Siddeley Trident to shame! What's more, this airplane goes through ice very well; Blow the boots and the ice comes off. That being said, I flew with an oblivious former Air Wisconsin Captain [these were the WORST!] one day and climbing out of Dulles in July, 1993 heading to Norfolk, I went heads down to get the ATIS and do the landing calculations "card", and suddenly, I felt the airplane stalling. I was a former flight instructor, and instinctively knew what the buffeting I was feeling was all about. We had been climbing through 17,000 feet at 165 knots, and suddenly, 30 seconds later I looked up and we were at about 105 knots or something like that! I grabbed the controls instinctively and shoved the yoke forward, while simultaneously shoving the thrust levers full forward. Realizing my mistake, I slowly brought the condition levers towards 1050 RPM, the speed for icing; It was ALL OVER the windshield wiper! And of course instantly I heard it smacking the sides of the fuselage. Holy Ben-Wa balls Batman! He released the controls and I descended about 300 feet to get back to 165 knots. "Dude! Dude! We've stalled! MY airplane!" I screamed, again, just instinctive. After I got the plane back under control [hello?] I said to myself "OMG I'm like I'm totally dead", and immediately thought up my defense to the Chief Pilot, which I was SURE I was going to be talking to very soon. Afterall, I had Just Taken The Controls From a Captain. FROM a Captain....Just about 1 month into my career~ And what happened? We successfully flew to Norfolk. And landed. And we had about 8 United Airlines pilots on board, and I expected that ALL of them would poke their heads into the cockpit and inquire just what the fuck we thought we were doing, but the reality is that all of them stopped and said "Hey guys, thanx for the ride!" What? And what did my "Captain" have to say about the whole thing when we got on the ground? "If you shove the throttles forward, you really should push the condition levers forward first". I'm not kidding, that is ALL he had to say about STALLING the airplane! I just kinda sorta kept quiet.

Air New Zealand is keeping its fleet of 23 Q300's which were the last 23 built before Q300 production ended. The Q300's compliment the airline's fleet of 29 ATR72-600's. Like with Canada, the Q300 operates to regional airport's that have short runways. ATR has developed the ATR42-600S which is designed for short land/take off to compliment the ATR42-600's and ATR72-600's

Great video Alex. Could you do a video regarding pilot pay in Canada? I’m sure many don’t realize how low it is and it would be great to raise awareness. Thank you! And keep up the great work :)

Australia has the exact same problem. Qantas Link still used Dash 8-100/200/300's which are required to reach some remote towns. They will eventually need replacing. Same goes for REX who uses Saab 340's

I have been on the Beech1900 from Hinton to Calgary in 2000. It was quite the experience especially with mild turbulence

I remember watching these videos when I was a lot younger. Now I’m working at YYC and I absolutely love it. 14 year old me is very happy now. Love seeing all your amazing shots of YYC, really my second home now. Thank you for fueling my aviation gap.

One of your best videos Alex! easily explaining to every zuzus out there the complex reality of Canadian (regional) aviation. Great way to start another year :)

The sound that comes from the Dash 8 300 on takeoff gives me goosebumps.

I love flying on the Dash-8s, they're one of my favourite aircraft out there today. Sure they're fairly bare bones and loud-ish, but you actually feel like you're flying and not on a literal air bus (pun sort of intended). They're also only used on short flights as you point out, so they're not bad for the quick hops.

Thanks for the video, Alex, was really interesting. Following the 737 MAX groundings a lot of Air Canada’s older planes which were slated for retirement in 2019 had to be kept in service and a result of that was the older Dash 8s on the East coast being sent to the West coast. At CYYJ the Jazz Rampies were in awe when a Dash 8 100 flew in from Vancouver as we were so used to the Q400s and on occasion the Dash 8 300s. When I gave the load sheet to the pilots the passenger cabin looked scarcely different than on the bigger models.

Great video, always enjoyed these... they seem very light and stable.

Thanks for the info. It's always good to be well informed.

I was a flight attendant for PAL Airlines, got real excited when I saw GPAU in this video 😄 PAL has been buying tons of Q400s in the prior year and has plans to buy even more !

There's definately a market opportunity for a new turboprop in the 20-30 seat range. We have a similar issue in Australia. There's plenty of old Saabs, Metros, Dash 200/300s and the odd Beech getting around doing important regional/charter routes, but eventually they'll need replacing and there isn't really an aircraft available aside from the ATR-42, which is probably too big/expensive for a lot of operators.

I live in Alberta and have flown edmonton/calgary route dozens of times. Almost always on a Dash 8, they basically have a flight going on one every hour. They are actually solid planes, not too loud, very comfortable. I don't notice much of a difference between them and an older 737 700.

Loved the insights. Thanks!

Loved the Dash-8 since it’s introduction, but only got to fly on one for the first time just a few years ago from YHZ to YUL. Fairly comfy, but it was loud, even in the very front seats. Been spoiled by the jets!

To note, most classic Dash 8s flying in Canada are serial 400 and below. Meaning they rolled out of production in the 1990's.

Thanks for the video. This helps explain why AC has permanently abandoned Kingston, ON (YGK).

Now you got me thinking about doing a sector run

Never flown in a Beech 1900D but have sat in one & was impressed by the amount of room for each passenger. Have flown in a Dash 8-300 and ATR42 and thought the experience pretty much the same. The Dash 8-300 seemed to climb faster. But the nicest by far turboprop I have flown in was a nearly brand new ATR 72-600.

I've flown on the Beech 19 and the Saab 340 several times and they weren't bad on the 45 minute good to MSP from the small airport (SUX) in Iowa that I had to fly out of. I couldn't imagine taking long flights in them, though, especially the Beech 19.

I'd actually say that where electric planes have the most potential (within this decade), are remote areas. 400 kilometers of range is plenty for most regional flying, although it of course wont't be able to replace all of them. Also, their small capacity of max 19 passengers is best suited for lower demand routes, e.g. remote areas, rather than between larger population centres.

I’m hoping with the retirement of some of the Dash 8, Air Canada will start flying CRJ on Edmonton-Calgary with more frequency

The Dash 8 is a beautiful smaller airplane. I have taken it many times, and it's fairly comfortable for short trips.

This is an interesting and informative clip, Alex...Merci. It’s certainly food for thought regarding fleet renewal in Canada’s smaller carriers...à suivre, eh?

I've always found the CRJ100/200 to be the most claustrophic aircraft flying today. I avoid it like the plague. I much prefer the Dash 8's over the CRJ100/200.

Excellent piece of analysis and shots of interesting aircraft

Thank You. Very Informative.

I think that mentioned Dornier option could be a good fit. And ATRs are becoming more popular, so I imagine mx costs are lowering. Also the IL-114-300 could be really good, if it weren't for sanctions. And scaling up a bit, Embraer's upcoming turboprop could be a good replacement for the bigger Dash 8s. Nice video, Alex!

I love the Dash 8 and the ATR, they used the dash 8 before all the time for Trinidad to Tobago flights, the dash 8 was the only plane I’ve ever been on that had a engine failure, it was surging so the pilot shut it down.

Great video as usual Alex. I see you left out the DO328 that CMA operate. Also Pascan still operate J31s.

Very informative video 👍

There’s a somewhat similar problem in the Caribbean, however the newer ATR variants have seemed to fill the market quite well since older planes were retired. Still tons of old planes operating here tho, Cayman Airways operates 2 20+ year old Saab 340s and two 40+ year old Twin Otters still.

Sunday is Jazz's last classic Dash flight. Timmins to Toronto. 😢 These were a fantastic bird.

Aslaskaair used to fly dozens of Dash series out of SeaTac, under the Horizon name, to regional airports. Not so so much these days. Time was, you could go from Seattle to Bend Oregon for $120 round trip.

Taking my last dash 8-300 ride on Wednesday, really so sad to see them go :(

I believe Air Canada (Jazz) parted with their last CRJ 100's quite a few years ago. They still operate 200's and 900's. The 705's were all type converted to 900's.

Love the Dashes. Grew up flying on the classic 4 bladed -100/200/300s. God, will I ever miss them.

Silver Airways tends to use twin engine turboprops like the Swedish built Saab 340 for example which they operated until 2019 except in Caribbean portion of the airline’s system and they now operate both ATR 72-600 and ATR 42-600 as the mainstay of their fleet.

Alex - your videos are great.

Most of the beechcrafts shown were 1900-d except the pacific coastal that was parked at YVR south terminal. PASCO only has one 1900-d the rest being 1900 and Saab 340’s with a couple Grumman Goose (geese?) for charter purposes. You can tell the difference between the 1900 and the 1900-d is the headroom. If it looks more like a guppy than being flat from the wind shield then it’s a 1900-d

I once travelled from montreal to ottawa in these. It was a great ride with 25 people.

Feeling sad about retirements of Q200 and Q300. I only love these two Dash 8

The D328eco! Let's hope this project really pushes ahead👌

Widerøe of Norway had to develop an Extended Service Program in cooperation with Bombardier for their Dash 8-100/200 fleet as there was no viable options at the time. they did this back in 2015.

Great video Alex

The DASH 8-300 is currently used by the Norwegian airline Wideroe as well and not sure what they are gonna do once their service life ends. And we have many smaller airfields which suits the Dash-8 300 but anything bigger and we got a problem.

Rise Air (formerly Transwest and Westwind) in Saskatchewan fly 1900's, ATR 42's and have a Saab 340a and 340b. The loudest is the Saab 340a.

Living in Kelowna and growing up between Vancouver and here I’ve been on so many turboprops and I love them. It makes me sad every time I have to go on a proper jet.

Bring back the DC-3 as a lengthened fuselage turboprop with a modern glass cockpit. Rugged, reliable. and could be used anywhere.

oh boy, ive been on one of those beach 1900s. and they are not fun, it was the worst flight ive ever takem. you could have someone taking directly into your ear and you still couldnt hear them, and the plane was very unstable and shook a lot. awesome content dude!

There is a twin turboprop stol aircraft available, as in production. Better yet, it is a Canadian aircraft. The Twin Otter DHC-6. The biggest drawback for it is it's standard commuter setup is 19 seats. You get multiple options for landing gear though, standard wheels, amphibious floats, straight floats, skis, wheels + skis. A 1000 km range means many short hops for longer trips but it can easily fit for low frequency services.

My Dad flew brand new Dash 8-100s for Horizon Airlines. After flying Piper Navajos, Metroliners and F-28s for Air Oregon before the Horizon merger. Even though he had flown the B-36 and B-52 for thousands of hours. The "Hot Rod" Dash 8-100 was his favorite airplane. His computer password was DHCDash8. Horizon Airlines eventually merged with Air Alaska after my Dad's forced retirement at age 60.

A couple of things. Thank you for saying Newfoundland and Labrador. ;) The other thing, where I live, all we have are tiny planes and we are pretty much robbed to fly anywhere. A return flight to our own capital city is over $1000. It's very sad.

Cool video, but a bit surprised that Porter wasn't even mentioned. Their entire fleet are small planes!

Brazil has also many low-demand regional airports. Azul Airlines serves many of them with a fleet of 36 ATR-72. Even smaller airports are served by a fleet of 20 Cessna Grand Caravan (9 pax).

I remember my first ride on Dash 8 from Victoria to Vancouver. As I recall, I was expecting the usual Boeing 737. That was all way back when. But I was pretty surprised at being stuffed into the prop plane which was completely full of passengers. Single seating one side and double on the other side ?

The Dash 8s on the west coast are old enough that the interior plastics are all yellowed. It's almost nostalgic.

the turbo props are great for a quick and fairly affordable Ottawa-Toronto trip.

I wonder if the RJ would make a good option for longer runways. We had one by Summit flying for First Are back in the day.

This is a issue in Norway as well. Widerøe operates the Dash 100, 200, 300 and 400. But the fleet is old, and there is no replecment option

0:13 I was flying with Turboprops (ATR 72 and De Havilland Dash 8) a few times and while they have the reputation of being loud, I don't find that it is really loud inside. I flew in jets that are worse if you sit directly over the engine. Also the legroom was much better than on Ryanair jets.

i remember a couple years ago Air Canada stopped serving our airport. westjet quickly swooped in and started service to our airport thru pacific coastal. even though the single runway here is 8000' long, there isn't enough demand for anything other than the turboprops

Alex, What are you using for your mic?

There is also the Czech-built LET410NG. 19 seats. quite modern. However it has Czech Walter M601E engines, which may be complicated to maintain outside europe. LET should make an export version with PT6's.

That Dornier 328 eco though.. 😚👌

The Canadian Maritimes had an almost total shutdown in '20 do to Covid restrictions but the facts were they simply DIDN'T WANT people from the outside or other Provinces coming in and there was little push back from local business. During the summer of '21 some of the service was restored and very limited frequencies remain in effect on many routes while large aircraft cargo operations continue. With limited rail service this has meant near total exclusion for many communities, but that seems to be what the public will accept..Not to mention that tickets are prohibitively expensive. So if they won't travel Air Canada is only too willing to delete them.

Omg 2:14 that B1900D is now owned by Panorama/Corpo Aviation and is based in CYHU! I see it every day in its new colors :D

With AC retiring the DH8-300 on January 9th 2022 i really hope AC orders something smaller then the Q400s / CRJ200's

I did fly on a Q-400 Porter Airlines last summer from YYT to YOW return with a layover at YHZ. Which is good because it gave me a chance to stretch my legs.

A few weeks ago I was on the last Dash 8-300 flight in Air Canada

Similar situation with similar/same aircraft types in Australia. Maybe the next 5-10 years will see demand grow to the level that it becomes viable for aircraft manufacturers again.

es-19 very interesting first time to hear about this... i wonder if they will really able to deliver it on time

i flew on a dash 8 fron Ottawa to Toronto a few years back, the plane was nowhere near full so was quite and enjoyable flight

Air Canada used to fly the Beech 1900D out of Bradley (Hartford CT). Now its a CRJ. Wish I could fly the 1900D

Tbh this isn’t just a Canadian issue; air Greenland is one of the many carriers stuck in the Q200 hole, where the ATR42 doesn’t have enough speed and range , and anything else doesn’t have the performance req in terms of runway

The de Havilland dash 8 is a throw back to the days when de Havilland was a British company. British aircraft are notorious for being over engineered. The Beagle Airedale and 206 being prime examples.

ATR have also launched the new ATR 42-600S A STOL (short takeoff and landing) variant of the -600. The aircraft is capable of operating from runways as short as 800-metre-long (2,600 ft) with up to 42 passengers. So that would be an ideal replacement.

I take the dash 8 all the time between YUL YQB/YTC. A flight longer then 1h30 2h would be really annoying, let alone going coast to coast.. the views are great though, especially in winter,

Great video! Just a correction: ATR 42 can carry up to 50 passengers. Initially, the ATR 42 was designed to carry 42 passengers, hence the name. But the 42-100 was never built. Then, the capacity was increased to 46 passengers; that was the 42-200. Two prototypes were built. The first production variant was the 42-300 with a capacity of 50 passengers.

I’ve flown on the Dash 8 many times SLC-SJC SAN - Monterey

Guess no more -300s with Jazz, but great breakdown of the situation :)

Great video. May need some subsidies and or market financing for new purchases. Electric planes or eco fuel is a head scratcher since many of the flights are taking people and parts to oil fields and mines.

I remember flying on a Pacific Western 737-200 between YVR and YLW for 40 minute flight in the late 1980s. Back then it seemed common to fly multi-stop "milk run" type flights on such aircraft. I believe the route was YVR-YLW-YYC.