We appreciate you two greatly! You were the first "training" and "review" channel that I locked in on a few years ago, and I credit you both with a large amount of the photography knowledge that I have!
I just want to say, it may certainly be a lot more work in post but the whole AF test with Chelsea in athletic mode, the color and mono shots and then the graphic on simple to challenging, this should be the benchmark on how to showcase a cameras AF hit rate.
Some of these critiques seem to miss the mark. For example, Tony makes a conjecture that the loss of detail due to sensor size will increase as ISO increases... lower density sensors often perform better in high ISO/low light situations due to a lower information density and better heat dissipation. The eye control AF is, as far as I know, driven by AI/ML algorithms so continuously recalibrating the same profile will yield better results than having 6 different profiles for 6 different lighting situations. The exception to this is if you're a glasses wearer using several different pairs of glasses. The understanding of how eye control AF is supposed to be used (to set the initial focus lock, not to continuously track on eye location) was lacking. The first item is a function of sensor size, pixel density, and heat dissipation; the other two points are in Canon's documentation (although the calibration profile information is a bit muddled). Also, did you alter the "stickiness" portion of the AF settings when doing the "two athlete" test? I believe Canon's default mode is such that it picks up on and prioritizes new figures entering the AF zone, so much of the focus switching there could actually have been the camera working as intended (my R3, set to the stickiest mode, seems to perform a lot better though I haven't done that type of test in the same deliberate manner) As an R3 shooter, I do have to say there are pluses and minuses to both the sensor size and the eye control... but the specific criticisms you've framed up here seem a bit like misinterpretations of intended functionality.
You need to read between the lines. The Canon money truck hasn't pulled up the drive recently so........................................ Why these 2 cameras are reviewed against each other. Only they know. They are not very similar and are targeted at different sectors. The R3 is not a wildlife camera at all. In most respects it is a sloppy review of tow cameras that should never be compared.
I miss your old videos on how to actually take great photos. All you guys do now is review the latest cameras which we don't need. You don't need to upgrade your camera and switch brands every 4 months.
Another great video guys but one thing I noticed with "eye control focusing" on my old eos 30v film camera was if I used a large Hoodman eyecup the system was more accurate as it held my eye in a fixed position and it would be worthwhile to see if this improves the accuracy with the R3. Canon makes a large optional eyecup for the R3 too : the Canon ER-hE Eyecup. I suspect this would make a big difference as the eye detection system is obviously going to be less accurate if you move your head even slightly
The R3 has a much better colour accuracy if you heavily recover shadows and in high ISO. The A1 and the R5 show some magenta or green tint in those situations.
In the side by side bird comparison shots - I was confused and had to roll back...you have it labeled backwards (metadata to video typed overlay is incorrect).
you don't need to move the camera to switch from eye to eye. you just tap the joystick toward the eye that you want. so if you're looking at the right eye and you want to go to the other eye, you just tap toward the other eye. if you have multiple people lined together, each tap of the joystick will switch from eye to eye to eye between all the people.
I purchased a Canon EOS 5 when first released in 1992 and used it alongside my EOS 10. The EOS 5 actually had an eye control focus system and it worked really well for me. Obviously more basic than the system in the R3, but it only required initial calibration.
I need some sort of Eye Focusing for this video. My focus keeps flipping between the extremely high production quality, the quality of the information delivered, the extreme athleticism, and the extreme dryness of the humor. This is good science and very very good art. A joy!
Thanks for the great comparison! I own both including the 50mm lens. I did notice Sonys 50mm F1.2 AF were a whole lot quicker than the Canon's 50mm F1.2 and its probably how they move the assembly. My guess is that's one of the reason of the fall off in closer ranges for canon system. Probably need a test using 24-70 or 70-200 to investigate further.
i don't think it's a realistic test. athletes are not 2 feet in front of your face. jared polin did a realistic test by photographing soccer, football, and basketball. i guess if the goal is to film fast moving objects 2 feet in front of your face, then the R3 isn't meant for you.
Another bullshit test from the Northrups.. the Sony 50 mm focuses a lot a faster then the Canon lens. So they tested the lens not the cameras. Bring out the glass made for action testing this camera. You guys are getting more and more unpopular not because you tell the truth but because you apparently deliberately design biased test…
13:10 Chelsea you are in a cluster af mode on the r3 not tracking so anything outside of that it won't pick up. Surely user error there or better yet should have left it to the subject detect with tracking like on the alpha 1.
Do you know what annoys me? People testing cameras and doing it incorrectly. Left to find the bird/animal automatically using all AF points, Canon cameras find the subject far quicker than trying to put a silly box over the subject. Even my RP grabs a bird far faster than I can place a box over it and the RP doesn't even have bird detection.
That was just sample footage shot on a different day but we tried every different AF mode and had the best success with that. Using wider AF settings caused it to CONSTANTLY lock onto the background.
I think I’ll try to shoot some bird pictures with my R3. I’m really curious if I get the same dismal performance. I knew Canon had this camera in wildlife photographer’s hands during development, so I’d be surprised if the results fall short of the older R5.
On the r5, with a single NH battery, I can easily get 2000+ shots with the camera in H+ green, for BIF applications. And that is for the mechanical shutter, too.
Thank you Tony & Chelsea for another interesting review! The eye controlled focus is not a new concept for Canon. They had this feature way back in the early days of the AF film cameras, though I'm sure not anywhere near as advanced. As others have mentioned, the R3 seems to be a camera for for pro sports photographers. I'm not a pro photographer, but personally have had no desire for a battery grip (or built in grip) since way back in the days when I still used my Minolta Maxxum 7 and Maxxum 9. Just too big and heavy. Battery technology is so much better today than even a few years ago. Its more practical to just care a spare battery or two. If I were a Canon user I would chose the R5, or for someone new trying to decide on a system. But I shoot Sony and am too invested in the great selection of lenses. It would seem to me, a new user should not overlook the variety of lenses available for E mount, not just from Sony, but from all the 3rd party manufacturers.. Of course there are so many makers of fine cameras out there and in the end, it's the photographer that makes great photography. But the technology in these new cameras is so fascinating and is improving in leaps and bounds.
Very detailed video, thanks for that :) I own both the R5 and R3... and coming from the excellent R5 autofocus I expected the R3 to be better. I mean, it has way less MP so it's clearly geared more towards capturing sports and fast action. However, the autofocus on the R3 is killing the whole experience. I get constant drifting from the autofocus lock. It would lock on a subject, then transfer to some mode where a lot of blue autofocus points appear and then it just drifts off. It happens constantly and makes me take the R5 on jobs now: I bought a second R5 and leave the R3 in the storage. Has anyone found a solution to this? I tried every menu option there is, but none can disable the automatic switching of the AF mode. My guess is, that you need more MP to build a reliable AF system: the sensor just doesn't see enough detail to have proper AF.
I have the same problem. Tried all the cases. Its really sad when you spend a hefty amount of money. Thinking about switching to the Sony A1 right now since that seems more sticky and doesnt ”panic” as the Canon r3
I use back bottom focus lock with settings: subject track, people, eye detection and to lock servo (-2 I believe). And it’s flawless on the R3. I recommend checking out wild life photographers from SAfrica - they go through the settings and options for each back button which might help you out. In my opinion, it’s more advanced than the original R5 - just have to set it up right.
Got my R3 right after thanksgiving and have been using eye control AF almost exclusively. yes - you must recalibrate in different lighting and there’s also probably physiological variability based on our own fatigue/dilation, etc. I also have experienced the eye control point drifting, but then I figured out that the eye control AF is really dependent on the shooter maintaining the positioning of the eye to the eyecup horizontally and vertically, and keeping the distance constant. I think that they can improve the eye control AF in firmware, and maybe build in an ongoing self-calibration routine where you can look to the center or a designated point and hit a button so you can bypass the normal calibration routine. I’ve adapted to the quirkiness and have trained how I use my eye and the shutter/back button focus to be able to use eye control reliably and almost exclusively. I use this frequently in dance and theater performances where I can use my eye to selectively focus and shoot individuals within a curtain call lineup, which would be harder using touch screen or joystick
You should buy an Canon ER-hE Eyecup which is a large rotating one which holds your face/eye socket in a consistent position , I have an old eos 30v film camera with their original "eye controlled focus" system and I found using a large Hoodman eyecup held my eye socket in a consistent position which greatly improved accuracy so I suspect this would help on the R3 too
Thanks I wish I had thought of that years ago. I guess it wasn’t that important when we were shooting 5 FPS but when you’re shooting 30fps videos we need some way to illustrate it in real time.
Could it be that while shooting birds, the adapted ef lens made the difference in focusing? Could it be better with the native rf 600 mm lens? Also, the rf 50 mm 1.2 is slower focusing than the sony 50 1.2 if I am not wrong. Can it be the lenses and not the camera that struggled focusing? What's your thoughts?
I definitely think the differences in focusing come down to the lens you're using, both companies have lenses that focus faster than competitors equivalents and allow for better sharp fps in different scenarios.
The 600 f4 is RF. And yes the lenses can impact focusing performance, but it’s realistic, because that’s the lens you’re going to use if you’re shooting court-side sports. We’ll use the 70-200s when we do the Z9 review.
Sorry. I took the teleconverter for an adapter. That's my bad. And I agree that the system overall is what will determine the buyers. But there are some equivalent sony lenses that focus worse. So it could be the other way around with some other lenses for sports or something else. But the sony A1 with the 600 f4 is definitely much better.
Great comparison, I’m shooting the R3 right now I am a winter sports photographer, Ive on;y done one event so far and it worked quite well, I will never use the eye control system, yet like a lot of people i wish it had the 45MP sensor if for anything cropping.. Another observation id R4 is still on V1 of firmware I am sure Canon will be fixing and updating features were it will only get better.
Hi Tony and Chelsea, have you actually reviewed the Nikon Z9 yet, I see you mentioned in your description to subscribe for our review of the Z9 ?! I cannot find it on your RU-vid site however, is it only available with a subscription ?
sONY HAS this archille heel. in PERCHED shots, the second time you touch the Already sharply focused , it goes and hunt from Far to subject. BUT its already pre focused. Why does it hunt ? Happens too many times to be user / situation specific.
Nice review.. love the B&W usage for out of focus samples.. however, wondering why shoot or test action shots with a 50 f1.2 lens in the first half with the R3.. a 28-70 f2 or a 24-70 would’ve been better I think..
If you turn the joystick on in the menu system on the R5/R3, you can go left and right with the joystick to change which eye you're focusing on with the eye detect.
Less than two years ago I went all in with Canon. I bought the R5C and other RF L series 2.8 glass. 2 months ago I bought the RF 600mm F4, so I am really locked in now. But now that I have been shooting with Canon for while the clear choice was always the Sony A1. I even remember this video when I was shopping around for a camera. ....should have listened :) Luckily the 600 F4 holds value if I decide to switch over. The Canon R1 expectations have drastically been reduced (based on Canon Rumors) If the rumors turn out to be true it will make the Sony A1 an even better option in terms of specs and value. I am starting to loose patience with Canon as you can tell but I will at least wait until the announcement.
is the bird eye af better on the r5 than the r3? these tests don't look promising for the r3. did you adjust the focus responsiveness settings to make it more responsive for fast, close subjects?
@ Eye-focus: My immediate thought was, eye-focus fully functional + shutter triggered with a blink of an eye. Imagine what THAT means for people with impaired or missing limbs! Imagine such a camera mounted on a wheel chair! I bet there will be a lot of new photographers!
Hello and Merry Christmas from Australia I’ve been following your channel for awhile but because of your recommendations I’ve just placed my first order on Christmas Eve from KEH for some used Canon L-series lenses and I’m quite excited. Thank you and keep up the awesome work you both do
You guys are hilarious haha 💚 Great comparison! Didn't know you never accepted free gear from camera companies! That's honestly amazing and a breath of fresh air. The other RU-vid channels are exhausting with their biased gear marketing videos
I was thinking about getting an R3 as my second to my R5 just because of the eye control but having to calibrate it in every scene completely kills that idea for any sort of professional work
The eye focus works if you calibrate a profile consistently rather than doing what seems to have been done in the video, which is creating separate profiles for a bunch of different scenes. I have an R3 and did calibration in maybe 5-7 lighting scenarios and it is a ton more accurate, even in scenarios where I haven’t calibrated yet. I suspect there’s some sort of AI/ML algorithm letting it “learn” your eye, but making a new profile for every lighting circumstance obviously cripples that algorithm, as Canon documentation notes that the profiles are for separate users or the same user with/without glasses.
@@adamm8036 Seems like user error and a failure to read the instructions. Fighter pilots don't use the same technology because it doesn't work. But then they are professionals who spend hours honing their skills. If you pick up a camera, point and shoot and then moan because you don't get what you want...................... well that's pretty foolish.
Great review! I've never considered Sony til now. However, the bird shots left me scratching my head. I had to rewatch and look down to make sure the labels were correct on comparison shots. The Sony was clearly NOT sharper in your test pics. The one bird's legs were significantly more detailed with the Canon. Was this a mistake ?
Thanks for the autofocus review. One thing I think would be very helpful is to state the version of firmware each camera is using. This has become very important information as each manufacturer seems to be adding features and refining functionality like autofocus. For example, the Canon R5 firmware v1.5 makes some significant improvements to the autofocus. Anyway, like I said it would be helpful, I think, especially down the road when the video has been out for a while as well since the firmware is unlikely to remain static for any of these cameras.
We updated all of them prior to recording this. The a1 FW was released the day before and maybe I’m imagining it but it seemed to improve bird acquisition.
Eye control was introduced in EOS 5 ANALOG in 1994. It was used in like 5-6 analogs since then. When the DIGITAL cameras came the eye control was abandoned. Canon (Canon's users) said that Eye Control is not at all accurate (always like 30-50% missing). I am a Canon photographer but I'm not using it in my analog 30V E. It misses a lot (after calibration even). It seems that in digitals it is still ("again") not accurate.
No, it is proving to be highly accurate for some as even bad enough to be unusable for others. It very much depends on the eyes of the individual. I'm guessing the more round and symmetrical one's eyes, the more accurate it is.
Ive had the r3 for almost a month now. Shot some full weddings with it. The eye control is really good. Tony and Chelsea did a good job but they are testing the feature in a vacuum. Once you set up custom controls to only activate focus from eye control when you need it, it adds a new level of confidence to your shooting no other camera has. Also it was kind of odd they created multiple profiles for different scenarios. What I find is that you only need to run a calibration on the profile set for your eye once in a new scenario and your profile gets more and more accurate the different lighting scenarios you have calibrated for. You don't need to calibrate everytime you enter a new scene. Maybe they misunderstood the intention from canon?
Tony; the DSLR is not dead. Ask yourself: do they still take as good of a picture as mirrorless camera - pixel for pixel? ANS: Yes. The difference between them? Features have improved. More of them. Useful features as well. But taking better pictures? ANS: No Using a mirrorless camera does not necessarily make you a better photographer; that depends entirely of your level of training and experience to begin with. I have and use the EOS RP, Sony A7III, and a 6D MkII. There isn't a spit of difference one can see in the picture quality between them. My test consisted of using the same 24-70mm f/2.8 v2 lens on all three. All pics are sharp, xlnt contrast, and beautiful color. You can't see any appreciable difference at all. The mirrorless cams brag about being lightweight; but using any decent lens with one makes that moot.
Saying a technology is “dead” means that it will no longer be developed. 8 tracks are dead even though they still work and sound fine… and were never actually alive.
You could get and R6 and an R5 for about the same price. While they don’t have some of the newer features of the R3, I would think it would be better to have a backup camera. Unless you really need video that doesn’t overheat and can shoot over that 30 minute record limit.
Sir a small submission with regards. I don't think in actual sports situations the sports person will not looktowards the camara, at least not all the time. Namaste 🙏
"We have $40,000 worth of gear here. That's probably more than you want to spend." You're confusing "want to" with "can afford to". Everybody still watching up to that point would LOVE to have all that kit. As a Canon shooter and R5 owner, I came away more impressed with the Alpha 1's AF than I expected. I'm not in the R3 market anyway; but it's clear, there are AF improvements to be made that maybe the R1 will bring to market in a year or so.
This was a great hands-on review, the R3 is a great camera for professional sports photographers. The only drawback for me is the resolution - today I expect at least Sony AIV resolution in this price range. The target group are Canon users, as a newcomer I would not buy the camera - also because of the very expensive RF lenses. The concept of the large housing with integrated battery grip is aimed at professionals - personally, I prefer more compact housings - here the A1 - except for the price - goes the right way.
I’ve owned this cameras for about a month. Having formerly owned the Canon 1DXMK2 for 3 years, I immediately noticed that the size/weight of the R3 felt substantially less than the DSLR. It’s a modern interpretation of the type imo. And Canon did a really good job. It fits perfectly in the hand, while not feeling burdensome.
Hi Tony and Chelsea, Thank you for the review, question: do you any time felt that electronic view finder could or might cause issue to the human eye when you perform real time shooting might be 1-3 hours?
I have tried all the Canon EVFs without issue, However a more accomplished local photographer I know tried a few EVFs, and could not stand any of them. This was right before the R5 was released. I highly recommend you rent a few models over a Few different weekends to see how the different EVFs effect you. In the Canon line there is considerable differences in resolution, lag, and refresh rate.
I really like this channel and have learned sooooo much from Tony & Chelsea! I'm a very green beginner with a digital camera but have reached a point in my life where I now have a bit more time to figure some of this stuff out so when it comes time for my next camera I will have enough knowledge to know what camera will be the best for my future needs. I bought a very basic entry level Panasonic Lumix G85 with just the stock lens 12-60mm Power O. I. S. Lens and felt it was a good place to start with the tiny budget and short list of needs at the time. It has served me well and I'm still not ready to move up to another camera just yet because it still does everything I need it to do and the 4k video was and still is important to me. I have come to really like this little camera even with it's limitations. Ok...so my question is this. I would like to buy wide angle lens without breaking the bank {new or used} and would prefer to find a wide angle with the built in image stabilization to work together with the camera. Not a deal breaker without the built in stabilization but certainly preferred. I knew all these cameras and accessories where expensive but gosh it's just sooooo much money every time I look for this or that. Sorry....don't mean to complain because I realize that's just the way it is so I will just have to deal with it. Anyway...I'm looking for wide angle lens options if anyone is willing to help with some suggestions that would be greatly appreciated. I would like to get as wide angle as possible without the fisheye effect. Oh...and being Canadian means an added burden of exchange rates since most of the best deals are in USD and with our "northern peso" it certainly does not make things any easier...hahaha. Thanks for your time! Tyler
Great video, lots of good information, and just the right amount of humor here and there. Also, I like that you pointed out how the R6 might be a great option for only $2500. Happy Holidays!
Interesting comment from Chelsea "considering a Canon competitor product" over her current R5, which one? I am still considering the switch to mirrorless so love these comparison videos. Thanks and keep up the good work
Thank you for the very informative video. Please consider testing the R3's rolling shutter performance when shooting stills of extremely fast moving subjects, specifically, the propeller blades on airplanes. My DSLRs (i.e., Canon 1DXM2 and 7DM2) do a great job. Before spending $6k on the R3, I'd like to confirm that it does not distort moving propeller blades.
Thank you for your video! We recently purchased a Canon R5. We love everything about it except when it locks up. We updated firmware to 1.5.1, but it made no difference. We are considering exchanging the R5 for a Nikon Z9. What would be your recommendation? The Sony A1 is too small (and uncomfortable) in my hands. Thank you!
Hi,did you do tests without the 2x extender as well? See that in all of the clips where you say autofucus struggled was with the 2x at 1200mm. So is the sony better with extenders or is it just that the a1 focus is better overall, with or without extenders? How do you compare r3 focus to r5, better or worse with our without potential extenders? Best regards Jonathan
R3 seems like a great sports camera and Canon’s clearly *mostly* caught up in tech. Still, seems like this test proves that Sony’s years of iteration and leading edge autofocus mean something and their reliability and algorithms are top notch. So cool to have such high-end competition! The R1 and a1 mark ii will be interesting cameras to follow, and the trickle-down effect of their tech into consumer cameras could be really cool!
😁Love Canon's renaming of the R1 to R3 after they realized that the A1 would crush it. "Whaaat? R1? No, no, dawg. This is the R3. We got something much better coming later..." 🤣 But credit to the R3. It is really good.
@@HrPedrosak There was no renaming, only in your small Sony echo chamber. The R1 is meant to be coming out end 2022-23. The R3 was named because of the new eye focus system (Canon had not been designated a 3 coding for any cameras in many years) that works when the professionals use it properly.
Happy Christmas and a wonderful new year. Quick question on R3 @ 30fps, were you shooting to both cards, or is the buffer free speed only to CFE. Seems like the Sony with its huge 50mp files needs CFE, while the R3 could get away with sd, any thoughts? Looking forward to your next high end review with the z9, now that they are shipping. I suspect with its weaker price position compared to R3 and A1, it will come in closer to the R5 overall, so i hope you include that body in the test. Hoping it does not have severe limitation on 8k video, and poor af tracking. I wonder if the olpf will make it's real resolution closer to R3 vs the R5. Your unbiased review should help dispel all the hype, and bring people back to ground. Nikon was playing catch-up to the R5, although even the R3 seems to underperform the R5 In some aspects, except for thier amazing 30fps raw which is market leading if at 24mp. Sony still seems to have the edge on Nikon and Canon, when it comes to af and overall consistency. The eye tracking is a bit disappointing in your review Thanks again. This really helps people decide
I have to wonder how much of a role Sony’s lenses with their amazing linear af motors are playing here. In any event, it’s the results that count. Thanks for the great video
These tests may not be replicable in the real world because although these autofocus systems may be able to keep up, you would never be able to keep an ELITE ATHLETE like that in frame for that long! :)
Interesting test, nice that you looked into wildlife especially. In my testing I focused primarily on the video side, which I think is extremely solid on the Canon Eos R3. Also from my testing (see me channel for video footage) the ISO performance from the R3 is best in class. Dynamic range is very good also. Hopefully Canon will offer a firmware update to fix the shortcomings? While I think the Sony is a solid choice, it’s lack of internal raw video is disappointing at this price point. Particularly given that the two main competitors both offer this feature. The memory card choice was also disheartening, as it is both limited in capacity, while offering a poor value for the size of the cards available. In any case, Great is so good there’s days that the weakest link is almost always the user.
Amazing review :) I found your burst speed tests more credible than usual :) Can you test the dynamic range of the R3 ? And do a controlled sharpness comparison with the A9 and the R1 ? Thanks :)
Great comparison test. This is how the camera should be tested. not just base on spec. and shooting a subject on the table. BTW. you lable wrong at 14.00 about the resolution comparison. happy holiday to you both. cheers.
