CAS is About to Become More Overpowered | War Thunder 

Remember when HVARs would nuke a King Tiger by hitting the ground next to it? I remember

CAS problem aside, I can't believe there's going to be 6 frogfoots and still no tech tree A-6

The longer range wouldn't matter if gaijin gave SPAA the ability to reliably lock and shoot down incoming munitions

clearly the solution is to add more overpowered cas for every nation

"i don't know what gaijin is thinking", we've been saying this sentence and will be saying it for the rest of war thunder life

Strike eagle will have a nice place in the game :)

When the Type 81 (C) was being added, BVV_d said on the Russian dev stream that they're "investigating the ways they can add multi-vehicle systems in Ground". Thing is, we DO technically have a way to implement them - just look at how catapult floatplanes are implemented in Naval and apply that to a launcher-radar vehicle pair in Ground. The details would have to be sorted out but the foundation is there. On that note, it could also be used to implement playable aircraft carriers but that's neither here nor there.

Maybe make Anti-CAS fighter’s with no ground weapons super cheap to spawn ?

I’m not surprised we’re at this point today. I don’t expect things to get much better unless we’re allowed to spawn aircraft with pure CAP loadouts at the beginning of the match. Even then, asking people to grind through an entirely separate tech tree, buy a top tier premium jet fighter, or worse - depend on their team - it’s not ideal at all.

They say no bias but nation known for unreliable precise weapons gets best AGMs. That are also out of the effective combat range of any SPAA in game

Put some AI sam to general battlefield to high tier GRB already Also the rewards for doing anti air duty are still fucking shit

I think the answer is in the air at this point. A specific option to use a-a load out and rewards for counter cas at the start of a match should be implemented. If dedicated ada is out of the question, than CAP is all that's left.

I think the general problem lies around the fact that systems like these arent meant to just be like vehicles vs vehicles they are part of complex military doctrines that, like you said involve things like patriot etc but also things like awacs and other stuff. Gaijin has the problem that they add systems and functions that are supposed to work together with others, yet arent in the game. A good example are ifvs, IFVs are still infantry support yet there is no infantry in the game. I dont think there is anything that can actually solve this problem unless gaijin decides to develop whats basicly arma 4

Su-25T should be buffed because Lee just got shot down by a M13! Jokes aside, really curious when will Gaijin change the damage model of Su-25 again. Even just talking about those four variants now in the game, they are so tanky that often 2 or even more missiles are needed. And now we are getting a out-of-SAM-range missile attach to this plane... (Or maybe make the A-10 damage model more durable, these two planes' survivability should be at least somewhat comparable imo, but now Su-25 can keep flying with no tail and A-10 lose control with a single elevator malfunction)

Sweden could get RBS 23 BAMSE with a range of 20 km and potentially even the Buk M1 TELAR as operated by Finland with even greater range of about 35 km if gaijin adds SARH AA, but I really don't think there are many options for other countries. I'm also not sure there could be similar missiles to KH-38s for other countries

Just gonna keep a heads up that Land Ceptor (UK), Turkish HISAR A+ (US), Norwegian ACSV G5 (SW), Tam-Sam 2 KAI (JP), ADAMS (ISR) and SPYDER (ISR) Exist which CAN fight off long range CAS

Patriot and other long range surface to air missiles are kind of necessary. Even Pantsir just doesn't have the range to engage modern strike aircraft and struggles with targets at high altitude. The SAMs in game don't work against modern strike aircraft on their own. They need another system to force the aircraft to fly lower

Gaijin, A-10C when?

What's going through Gaijin's mind is "MONEY!"

A simple solution is to make all (10.0+) aircraft have a lower spawn point (100 - 200), similar to SAMs, but only if they do not carry air-to-ground weapons, but only air-to-air.

There are IRIS-T SLS ground launched SHORAD SPAAs with >15km range, like the NNbS Boxer and the G3 for both Germany and Sweden, as well as fully C-RAM capable SHORAD vehicles, but knowing Gaijin and how badly modelled the SPAA radars are, I dont expect C-RAM to ever be a capability that will actually work ingame, despite being very real irl.

Many nations could hypothetically get something like NASAMS, which doesn't have quite the range of patriot but would still be able to counter long range CAS

gaijin is not thinking of balance

One option would be to add stronger SAM platforms in artificially nerfed states to keep the scales from tipping too far in any direction. Also, for systems that have multiple vehicles, they could add the SAM platform exclusively for the player to control, while the radar would be in a different location. Either a ground based radar array or an AWACs for the entire team.

US could add SLAMRAAM, with it's radar as a towable trailer. There's also the ASRAAM Supacat

first of all they could start off by adding the hvsd/adams or the spyder aio and 2nd of all they could reduce spawn points for air to air loadouts on jets

I say it’s time the A-10C arrives with TGP for > 480p gaming Maverick TV screen, and they fix the AGM-65D or give the G’s which the Gripen gets.

IIRC the patriot, s300, and AWACS were spotted in the files a while back. May be then preparations for april fools/ RB EC or updated sim

IRIS-T could be added for European nations, theres wheeled and tracked versions and its range is around 30km

Sweden and Germany could get IRIST-sls which would be effective against incoming missiles but the IRIST also only have a limited range similar to the VT 1. speaking of wich there is a better version of it, Gaijin could add

Something like enigmas Cold War server in dcs could be an interesting game mode in war thunder, and it would allow a lot of these long range weapons to be properly implemented. It could also give us the mixed air, ground and naval mode that gaijin promised that one time many years ago.

Imo adding the hawk sam would be feasable if it carries something like a towed carriage behind with extra rocket.

a good solution would be to make agms more easily intercepted/add sams that can better intercept agms, or even add a (small) reward for intercepting one (like a recon drone kill)

right now it feels like ground rb is just sandbox air rb with players thrown in

I already switched to one tank lineup because how annoying is to deal with CAS. Why should I care about quality of matches when Gaijin also does not care?

I wanna go back to when helicopters first came out lol. You could just hover above the battle since helicopters sights didn't have guidance restrictions like they do now.

also how come you don't bring up point locking? the missile doesn't track moving targets at certain ranges idk why you didn't bring it up

harm systems instead of super long range guided munitions would be a good mix-up I think

Ground RB EC might need to become a thing, so AA players can be wherever they need to be to be close enough while planes also have more freedom to play around known SPAA locations. And modern MBTs are so fast that there's like a 5 second drive before you're in combat right now.

You might got the IR/TV locking mechanics wrong It’s not that it locks moving targets at 20km It’s locking the ground at 20km and if it fly into the moving target locking range and the target did not change position Then it changes the lock on to the target The real scary one is the laser guided kh38 cause the loading range of the tank model has been maxed out last patch instead of 13km

The cas size is almost entirely based on the map size, and in most cases 12-15km is the map border. Some even 10km. So it wouldnt matter having a 200km anti radiation missile.

I've always thought there should be an airspace mechanic where if a team has too many airborne units then you cant spawn in an aircraft (aside from nuke planes). I also dont mind stuff like the pantsir being in the game since it is primarily a ground gamemode, but every nation should have a sam system as powerful. A good comparison is how opressive the strela is compared to mistrals(lmao) and stingers. More spaa is always a good thing, but please just add it to the nations that actually need it.

Speaking of Russian CAS, I think we could see the MiG-27 become a viable plane in Air-RB when separate battle rating changes come, would love to see you check that out Lee if it does happen 👀.

You can yeet TV guided bombs and missiles 20km with the right setup this missile is basically just an easier way to do that I remember when the pantsir came out and I thought stupidly that I could still have fun at top tier (I was wrong play 10.3 max it will make your life so much better) I would take the F4E with either the glide bomb GBU 8s or the walleyes and climb to about 11km up and yeet the bombs at Mach 1 and it would be able to hit at that range the only issue was it was complete blind fire because the tanks stopped rendering at that range so I would just wait for a radar ping and if I got one I would lock center mass on both spawn points and pitch up and sling bombs and just hope that once they got within 3km they would have a target in the gimbal limit of the sensor to lock onto and would guide in it was relatively consistent but EXTREMELY BORING and eventually was not needed as much anymore because after the missile dynamics rework you could dodge pantsir missiles at about 12-16 km by maneuvering and bleeding its speed so you could out turn it although eventually I just got sick of top tier inconsistency with both ground and air vehicles (tanks eating bombs with the roof MG or Russian and German vehicles deciding that they just won’t spall making your rounds do no damage and most specifically the HSTVL got butchered and that was my favorite tank so I saw no point in playing 96 different M1A1s with the only difference being they get progressively heavier and get slightly better rounds)

It seems like there needs to be a tank-only mode in the game

I think kh-38s are gonna be easily detected by sam radar and intercepted before it gets to the target, much like mavericks or kh-29s. we already have 30km range kh-29td(or te) in game, so 40km kh-38 sure is gonna change meta but i dont think it's gonna be anything that huge.

Guess it's a good thing I never got into Ground. I'm a virtual pilot not a tanker and you can't just spawn into an aircraft from the start. Though with the A-10CII and F-15E being my favorite aircraft to fly in DCS I miss out on being able to utilize those skills in WT

Hopefully they can decompress the BRs, which if they do it right will balance out CAS a bit and be just a general positive for the whole game. Another idea to is to make patriot and other long range SAM systems on each side, but it is sort of like drones in which you can switch to them if you notice a plane. There are of course many small debates like “should this cost SP?” or “what BR ranges should they BR add it to?”, but if Gaijin works with the community I think it would be something to look forward to. But this is just my take

crazy you need teamwork IE air support from a fighter to take care of the range problem of CAS. its a combined arms mode. the answer is right in front of you

They wont add Longbow radar guided hellfires because they’re considered too op meanwhile stuff like Pantsir’s compared to any equivalent spaa in game (esp flarakrad) is fine

man i can't wait to be honest. to not be able to do a thing in in type 81(c). it struggle against KA-52 already, can't wait for what's next! SO MUCH FUN!!

I think we may need to change some things in the gamemode : 1st : rp cost to spawn a CAS capable aircraft, and making them spawn on the airfield isn't a bad idea imo. 2nd : change the airfield AA in all gamemodes, like for exemple -> depending on the map and it's contest, and the br of the match, as well as not just be sitting in line at the airfield. short range AA like the Shilka, the M163 and such could be next to it, but longer range AA could be sitting back or more on the side ( making aircraft having to be more aware of their suroundings ). Gotta note that in Ground Mode, it would be a bit different i would like to know if somebody have better ideas. 3rd : this one is for AirRB, but please Gaijin just use the space of the map by making more thing to do on it, than just increasing the border of it but keeing the Ai targets o nthe middlen it serves no purpose in gameplay prospective. 4th : maybe add AI AA in the ground map t oat least protect the spawns ? idk how it should be done on this one but could be interesting to at least test something. hope ppl like those ideas and maybe try to even make them better, bc new vehicle in updates are nice, but QoL and improving the game experience is something that a very few dudes should bitching about.

Top tier ground RB is far to 'arcadey' for the weapons they have already introduced, let alone the ones right around the corner. They need to rethink the game mode from the bottom up, including maps, player count, objectives, etc. This applies to top tier air as well.

I don’t think the range of the weapons matters when the size of the maps limits the engagement range. The map size and rendering distance is the limiting factor of CAS effectiveness, not weapon range. Weapons outranged the map size a while ago.

I think they should just lock some ordnance out of GRB matches, by some i mean the longer range ones that dont have a good counter right now.

I’ve got an idea, how about they add a new game mode called “actually ground RB” and in that mode you can only spawn tanks. We’ll see whether it’s more popular than current ’ground’ RB.

So surprised not many people are talking about this, it’s just another Su-25 to most people, but the reality is that Russia it’s truly entering the CAS meta with its thermals and range. (iirc MiG-27 doesn’t have thermals right?)

This thing can counter the Pantsir though! Wait... *Wait...*

Right now, since the release, top tier especially is unplayable. I recall one match where there were a minimum of 6 CAS up at one time. One or two AA can't take care of that. I think the best fix is to double or even triple the Spawn Point cost of brining in these jets. As powerful as they are with the amount of ordinance they carry, they should cost significantly more in the Spawn Point category.

I just use J-11 in AA role atp. I use tor M1 and pantsir to shoot down munitions mostly.

Yes, the US and many other nations do not have medium range SAMs that are not reliant on a complete battery regiment. The reason why is because these nations use on air superiority to fulfill medium range AA roles. This leads us to the problem and solution in my view: Air superiority load outs at top tier are currently too expensive. A F-16 with AA missiles only costs the same as a fully loaded standoff guided munitions A2G strike aircraft. The reasoning for this escapes. The lack of long range SAM is exacerbated by the fact that players cannot do anything about it unless they have a kill streak/a lot of spawn points - which is unlikely given that they are being pounded by a Su-25. I understand that making air superiority load outs cheaper chokes out helicopters and Su-25 players, but that is acceptable IMO considering the damage they do to the ground gameplay mode.

These are the smallest problems we get. What u gonna do about bombers and strikers are obsolete in ARB?

Best and most fun way to counter cas is to spawn in a fighter with air to air loadout

average balance

Easy solution: make HT cas cost as much as a nuke.

Possibility to make it balanced - Each one of these extreme long range atgms will require 200SP ON TOP of the planes sp cost. Therefore only 1 or 2 people can spawn these in a single game

Won’t change anything. Getting a track lock north of 14km is impossible. The 38 will be like the 29 when render distance was 10km. If you see a launch that far out on radar just move.

I wonder if they’ll add JDAM-ERs

Multi-Mission Launcher, ground based AIM-9X launcher with about 15 - 20km range although wikipedia lists 41km

The chance of a long range weapon to destroy anything other than an AFK player parked in the open is very, very small. You need to get well within AA range to be effective.

It's about time they should start adding AI controlled SAM sites that engage high flying CAS at those long ranges, and these SAM sites sits at 2nd Helipad base or airbase. These are secondary objectives and require you to overwhelm the AAs to destroy them.

I can drop gbu8 from 20km for couple years already. But recently I back to game and - they not lock anymore only in test mode …. Gaijoob fixed

So naturally the response is using fighters as Interceptors

Make air kills worth it in ground, and lower the spawn points needed for air only loadouts on planes, and you've got some balance brought back.

Germany could get two systems, the IRIS-T with a 25km range or the MIM-23 HAWK with something like a 45-50km range... If they are adding planes that can drop warheads on foreheads they have to add their real world response units within a reasonable amount of time as 1, they actually do exist and 2, it's the sort of "balance" Gaijin can make money off of

They could add Patriot, S-300 and stuff like that with AI control, but considerinh the insane range they have, they could even kill your aircraft as soon as your respawn

I reckon other nation spaa need a buff or new addition for each nation (more reserve missiles etc.). I dont get why gaijin adds stuff that arent ready (or has an effective counter) to the game and to a nation that doesnt need it

Jets are a hard counter against jets. Just lower the spawn cost of planes when you get killed by a plane.

Its the exact same problem that top tier air has. Missiles with entirely too much range and little to counter it. It would have one hundred percent benefitted the player base to not get any radar guided and long range self guided missiles. But here we are. Though Id argue that in ground battles these types of long range guided munitions are even worse for gameplay then the air to air variety. Largely because you will rarely if ever see it coming. And even if you do. Good luck cuz you are not moving out of the way fast enough.

I suggest allowing aircraft with pure air-to-air loads to be able to spawn instantly for cheap. This does two things: first, it provides more opponents for SAMs meaning SAM players aren't left twiddling their dicks if the enemy decides to just not spawn planes, and second, it allows teams to reliably counter TRAMs yeeting PGMs from the stratosphere. Additionally, some long-range S-300 and Patriot batteries can be added, but from _so_ far out of the map zone that they only serve the purpose of forcing all aircraft to fly extremely low. If you fly too high you get radar locked and clapped out of the sky by a long-range SAM, meaning CAS players now need skill. Only issue with this approach is it does pretty much fuck over CAP planes and player SAMs by making it significantly harder for them to do anything.

Honestly i feel that the set up Gaijin has for Ground "RB" is outdated to even implement Modern vehicles capable of 50+ km standoff capabilities, perhaps a new mode of "combined arms mode" where AI Sam sites are introduced which could introduce a new feature of SEAD'ing, and probably a bigger map for Ground forces with an increase player count with new objectives rather than it being a shoot n scoot fiasco. Probably too much to ask for Gaijin to overhaul the 2013 game mode formula they've kept for so long.

Everybody is forgeting, that you can bring in fighters to kill cas, and with multirole jets you can even ground pound when there isn't any. Air to air combat ranges are getting huge too. Just move long range cas above these short range sam carriers in br. By having cas cost more sp than a jet with a full air to air loadout makes so the killed ground player still has counter play, but not an overpowered one, where he becomes the next nightmare. You still have to cap points with tanks, and if you refuse to spawn in with jets then that is your own self made problem...

4:38 LIKE DRONES?

CAS was balanced before Gaijin nerfed all SAM launchers and added the Pantsir which was very much not nerfed. That automatically made Russian CAS supreme, and since then theres just been power creep on other nation's CAS adding weapon systems for them to overcome the pantsir.

Or maybe give us the ability to research and then call in Patriot Defense off map like we do artillery strikes. CAS can choose to go after these defense stations if they wish to attack the ground RB battlefield without their interference. Or risk the battlefield knowing patriots coming their way.

second problem is that killing planes pay nothing and if it gave more value back then more people would do the AA role

I just want them to fix the grind in the game so i can play top tier and unlock more then one countrys top tier in my life time at two years in this game not at top tier yet

An excuse to add HARMs. For real though, the biggest issue imo is deciding to add this when no nation in game is given a SPAA that has a range that can deal with this.

just buff the sams... make it so LAV missiles act like the Strela where they are hard to dodge... that would buff the 10.0-11.0 range , and then buff ADATS missile speed and give it an optical lock ono so even if flares happen missile will still track... same with other nations... make the sams harder to dodge but not impossible, that would force CAS to play more attentively and cautiously, and choose their moments to strike instead of loitering over the battlefield completely destroying the enemy team while targeting newly spawned SAM systems. That is what ticks people off most, spawn in after a death only to be clapped by air assets such as CAS or choppers.

Scale up ground RB maps like 50×50 square KM and then adding playtime be 60 min long also adding mid-range SAM systems😂

Cas is balanced when you have a good spaa/team player, but if you’re teamates are clueless or your particular aa sucks, then the game is just not fun.

No lee you don't need a patriot, the nasams with a mobile truck mount exist in real life and would work fine

It's really simple to fix this problem, create the game mode without CAS.

In the least, they could increase the SP costs for CAS. A cap and an assist shouldn't be enough for a fully loaded plane. I think they should also reduce the rewards for destroying ground vehicles with a plane in ground RB, like a 25% reduction in sp and rp, since there is very little a tank can do to counter the plane without dying and getting into an AA or another plane.

Honestly. People need to use more fighters to keep the CAS at bay. Sadly SPAA fucks nothing from the higher tiers.

I mean could be worse, gaijin could have added KH-38MA(ARH version) to SU-39

well if they wont add this missiles on su-25sm3 then they would mostlikely need to drop it hard in br as well its just worse than any other toptier cas like f-16c or mirage

Gaijn should just pull the trigger and implement multi vehicle aa systems. Maybe something that sits in its own area on the map that can be controlled by either ai or a player. Then they could have a reason to implement SEAD systems into that game that already exists on planes irl that are in the game now. This narrow thinking they are stuck on is going to ruin the game. Expand it already

Makes me chuckle a little bit every time I hear things like this because of their excuse of "Its a realistic game but it needs to be balanced"... Absolute bull Imo they add what they want to add such as when they added the KA-50 which was completely and absolutely stupid...

i still think CAS wouldnt be so bad if it cost more, ESPECIALLY at higher tiers