"And that night he crawled on top of me, stinking of wine, and did what he did, what little he could do... and he whispered in my ear "Lyanna"... Your sister was a corpse and I was a living girl and he loved her more than me." Cersei Lannister
This is like the yes and no of Cersei Lannister. Yes, it’s humiliating for a newly wed to hear their partner say someone else’s name in bed. Also No, Cersei’s personal vanity is “Really? You love some ugly horse-faced Stark girl more when you have golden-haired perfection like me? Screw you.” That’s Cersei Lannister.
To be fair, still nothing. Job didn't want the iron throne and to be honest I don't think cersei wanted the north, it held very little strategic value and would have created less wars to leave the northerners alone. She demonstrates this by stateing Ned stark son is a man of honour. She didn't say bastard. She showed him respect
You want to know the really horrible truth? Robert was never really in love with Lyanna, he was more in love with the idea of Lyanna. He believed that Lyanna could have been the woman that could have tamed the warrior within him, but no woman could have done that. He would have been loyal to her for a little while but soon enough he would have caught the eye of some pretty serving wench and gone back to his lecherous ways, and Lyanna knew that.
@@alshankhan9091 no. She became a martyr to him, an ideal that no one else could top. And he clearly didn't love her enough to stop sleeping with serving girls.
In the books Lyanna was bethroed to Robert but his actions of just sleeping around and visiting brothels made her resent him and not want to marry him. None of the male Starks would do that which is why she expected her future husband to not do that as well. When he did, she just began to hate him and realised that he'd keep doing the same even after their marriage so she decided to elope with Prince Rhaegar whom she actually liked and was also liked by.
And also Elia knew so it wasn’t infidelity by Rhaegar. Elia couldn’t have any more children But Rhaegar was obsessed with “the dragon has three heads” so he wanted a third child, a son he and Elia believed would be the Prince Who Was Promised. Lyanna must have known the deal.
None of the male starks would do that? Come on not all starks are noble like Ned. Since you read the books you should know Brandon starks, Ned’s brother did sleep around before getting engaged to Catelyn. Its in Theon’s chapters in A Feast For Crows.
@@tanzeelahmed164 There is two theories for me in Brandon case. Lady Dustin is lying, possible but unlikely. Rickard Stark did everything in their power to prevent that Lyanna connect with the real world, so she wouldn't know about Brandon being the wild Wolf, different from Robert that everyone know how he was. A childish girl taken away by tales.
@annavictrix Also, people seem to forget that she was Oberyn's sister and she was marrying a targaryan. Given her brother's lifestyle and her knowledge of targaryan history, it's totally possible that she went into the marriage without the expectation of unconditional fidelity. No one mentioned how Elia looked at the tourney at harrenhall, she might not have even been upset. At least Rheagar cared enough about Elia not force her to keep trying to have another child when it could have killed her. Instead, it's clearly possible--based in Danys vision at the house of the undying--that he spoke to her ( about having another child, and she knew about his obsession with prophecy and the dragon needing 3 heads. In real life, they might have spoken bluntly about rheagar taking a mistress or even a 2nd wife. Also, after Robert took over, all Targaryan loyalists were in danger--that included the Danyes and Ashara, who was Elias lady in waiting. Ashara needed to dissappear and so did Arthur Dayne. It makes me really doubt that Ashara committed suicide rather than went into hiding. And why was Arthur at the tower of joy instead of guarding rheagar at the trident. He might have survived if Arthur had been by his side. But whatever was at that tower was more important to him than his own life. And how did Ned find out that lyanna was at the tower of joy? Why was she there with rheagar during the majority of the war? Who was bringing them food, who helped lyanna through the birth? The only house nearby was starfall. And why would the daynes nickname their heir Ned if he actually killed Arthur or did anything to dishonor Ashara. There's so many questions about the rebellion that when you ask one, you realize another one
Rhaegar didn't break it. I believe it was his father, Aerys II. Aerys told Tywin that he would not allow a marriage between them because the Lannisters weren't good enough. When in reality, Aerys was afraid that they would become more powerful than the Targareyn's.
Cersei was NEVER meant for Rhaegar. Tywin tried to manipulate Aerys in to betrothing Rhaegar to Cersei but Aerys laughed at him. Aerys may have been completely mad, however he wasn’t stupid enough to betroth Rhaegar to a Lannister.
“Someone took her away from me and seven kingdoms couldn’t fill the hole she left behind.” The writing and acting is amazing. I wish we got to see more of Robert
@@eb4771while I do think the butchering of the babies was a very cruel the rebellion was absolutely justified. Tywin killed those babies and presented them to robert as gifts to show his loyalty since he didn't take part in the war. So robert has no blood of targ babes on his hands. He did send assassins to murder dany and viserys but he was not successful. So robert has killed 0 babies . The only targ he killed was that idiot rhaegar and he was a married man who stole his betrothed.
@eb4771 Is that why? Wow. I could've sworn Rhaegar and Lyanna's goofy asses left without a word, leading people to believe that she was kidnapped. Lyanna's father and brother are executed by Aerys Targaryen after they head to King's Landing to get justice for Lyanna. None of this is on Robert Aerys, Tywin, Ned, etc...this is on Lyanna and Rhaegar. The fact they KNEW a war was brewing due to their absence these two idiots should've made their way back to King's Landing to clear their little indiscretions up. Sure, people would be hurt.....heartbroken and embarrassed if you're poor Elia Martell, and indefinitely disinherited, but no war begins. I love Jon to pieces but no one can ever make me even have a sliver of affection for the two dicks that created him..
@@william0513me too, i think the same! Its like she wanted an honest conversation + kinda goodbye + she don't wanna feel she made a mistake ploting his murder now that he said NO
@fam6746 yhh that's all it was, confirmation, she was going to kill him but this just, like everyone said, put the nail in the coffin. And plus I don't blame cersi for it. Girls back then we're groomed to only ever want marriage with some dude that was arranged for them. Kinda sad really. Glad she killed him tho, lol😂😅
@@william0513Same, I think it's clear in hindsight that she decided to kill him right then. She had been considering it because she could not bear to be in their relationship anymore, and his death was the only way to end it and still stay with her children (let alone staying alive), but she much preferred fixing their relationship to ending it, and still had hope it could be possible. She probably struggled with trying to deal with that hope for a long time. But his "no" here dispels her hope once and for all, and she is suddenly hit with the clarity of what she has to do. "It doesn't make me feel anything" is true in the sense that she doesn't feel disappointed or sad or happy about his answer, she has stopped caring and worrying and hoping. She lets him go right in that moment, and his fate is sealed. It's much like when Lady Olenna talks to Sansa to find out if the rumours about Joffrey is true. When she says it's "a pity" that Joffrey is a monster, she just seems slightly bummed that Margaery's life as queen won't be as easy as hoped, when what she's actually bummed about is that she'll have to go through with the option of killing Joffrey. The two scenes are obviously alike in the sense that they depict a conversation where one party is told a harsh and disappointing truth, and you feel sorry for them, not realising that they already have a solution for their problem in mind, namely murder, and decide on it in that moment. One way in which they are not alike, though, is the opposite emotional implications for the two characters. For Cersei, whose worries have been weighing heavily on her, eating at her, and directly impacting her life for a long time, the moment brings relief because she lets go of all her worries in that moment. For Olenna, whose worries were hypothetical, had not yet impacted her life, and might even have turned out to be proven unfounded, the moment brings tension because her worries become solidified in that moment, and not just her initial worries about what Margaery would have to endure if the rumours were true, but also new worries about whether or not she can pull off the big plans, i.e. carrying out the murder without getting caught *and* securing a new betrothal to Tommen, plus having to rely on Baelish not to sell her out at any point in the future. I feel like I lack a conclusion, but this whole thing is probably long enough already. Thanks to anyone who bothered reading! 🥔
@@mikilacunningham6259She didn't either, she loved rhyghar Targaryen (probably) and this delusional man killed the only man that was going to be the greatest King westros could have especially in fighting the others and possible invaders.
@@johanebrown1764Rhaegar wouldn’t have been the greatest king. He was impulsive and stupid enough to run off with a betrothed noble woman from one of the most powerful houses.
As a character- this was one of Cersei’s best moments. You can feel the depth in her character 😔 what a long journey to her looking out windows drinking wine.
And with that answer he sealed his fate. Cercei thought maybe I’ll give him a chance nope looks like he’s going to be gored by a wild boar. I’m sending Lancel off to get him blinding drunk on that hunt.
Nothing left for her to work with. She didn't want him physically near and she could pursue her own strategies alone. Her ego was hurt by his honest rejection - she is a beautiful and fairly intelligent woman. She really didn't feel anything for Robert right then as he tripped the decision to have him killed. No anger, nothing. Indifference is the true opposite of love and hate.
I could be over thinking, but i feel that "No" from Robert officially signed his death sentence. Whatever doubt Cersei might have had about taking him out disappeared at that momen, and that's when she decided to kill him come hell or high water.
No she would have done it either way. She did it to guard the secret of her children's incestuous parentage. Plus Joffrey was at an age to rule so she didn't need Robert anymore and she had established her power base. She was even outmaneuvering her own family members. Only her father could control her. Robert really allowed the Lannisters to do whatever they wanted..
i fell like she was already so done with him...she merely asked to know if she should also relieve herself on his grave after .There was no mercy in Cercei at this point. She was just wondering exacly how much she should hate him.
Did Robert really love Lyanna tho? He barely knew her and she definitely did not feel the same. I feel like if they had actually been married it wouldn't have been a very happy one and Bobby B would have just turned to the bottle and gotten tubs anyway 🤷
Robert was in love with the idea of Lyanna, of being Ned’s brother in more than affection. Robert never was close with his own family so I imagine the idea of marrying his best friend’s sister was very nice. I’m sure that Robert was also attracted to her more traditionally masculine interest like riding horses or hunting.
@@basiosrasian225 yeah going hunting with his wife was def Rob's wet dream, but doesn't mean they would have been a good match 😅 Having her 'stolen' from him and her untimely death also boosted her into mythical levels of hotness for him
I asked Chat GPT that. Could Robert have changed if he married Lyanna? Cause that was his great flaw that disturbed Lyanna; his "whoring" as Bobby B himself puts it. What Chat GPT basically said was that we can never know for certain. Human nature is a funny thing. You peg someone as one thing, and sometimes with a little push, they'll surprise you. I'd like to think he could. I also kinda think that Rhaegar, even though he may have had "love" for Lyanna, believed in the "Prince that was promised" prophecy more. Which is why he tasked three Kingsguard to protect Lyanna. He wouldn't have the prophecy not come to pass, not with how much he's done to have it happen. Funny thing is, both Rhaegar and Aerys II had three kids. So who is the true Prince I wonder?
@@sammakesstuff4176 Robert was not that much in love with Lyanna , Lyanna didn't even like him not even a tiny bit. Their marriage would've been a disaster. Robert just wanted to keep his bestie and his sister forever by his side and do fun things with them ; that is just a desire for friendship, not romantic love .
Gorgeous music, great lines, and cersei... The way she took a drink of wine after he destroyed her and then said she felt nothing... It all makes sense
The fact that he said he wanted Lynna not loved Her. He just wanted her , nothing else. He would still have been same cheating asshole. He was also terrible king. Only because he came after mad king doesnt make him any good. Really feel bad for Cersei here. Any women who go through something like this would become resentful ,angry , vengeful. Robert didnt had any right to destroy a womans life by marrying her when he was obsessed by someone else.
Well Robert didn’t have a lot of choice. Tywin helped him win the war in a big way, he kind of owed him. Plus, at the time, the Lannisters were the richest House in Westeros, and war is seriously expensive. Robert and his allies would have needed financial resources that Tywin was able to provide. Especially since even after dethroning the Targaryens they couldn’t be sure if they wouldn’t end up going to war with Dorne. If Robert had a choice I doubt he would have married Cersei. But that leaves his newly secured rule in jeopardy if he doesn’t have a legally legitimate heir, and of the choices available to him, Cersei was the best choice. But I agree, Cersei had every right to hate him and resist him as much as she was able. And yes- even if Robert had married Lyanna, he wouldn’t have been any different, at least not on his own. Ned would have had to try and restrain his impulses, but bc Robert was King, I doubt Ned would have spoken out of turn to Robert, at least not enough that it would have ever stopped Robert from being unfaithful. If anything, I think Robert would have been even worse with Lyanna, bc she would have never tolerated his behavior lying down. She would have rebelled against him in way she could have, bc Lyanna never stood to be told what to do or what her place was, unlike Cersei, who at least played the part of a dutiful wife/queen in front of others.
If Robert had simply said yes. If he had simply allowed himself to love Cersi she might not have been so fucking terrible. Edit: Didn't think this would be such a controversial opinion lol either way I still believe if Robert had put him pain and loss into his ability to love Cersi and got her away from her Father maybe she wouldn't have been so bad. Not saying she wouldn't do all of the shit but ya know maybe less of it
Right! What pain it brings me to think how it was ruined by speeding through the last little bit of the seasons. I mean, I think the show could’ve ended no other way; however, they just HAD to rush it and say “fuck the writing”
In the books, I believe he catches joffrey torturing a cat to death, and it's disguised him as it DEEPLY Disturbed him. So much so. He seriously threatens Joffrey and Cersie threatens that if he does anything, she will kill him in his bed while he lays. So Robert drops the argument. But he says that catching his son in the middle of unmercifully torturing the cat ruthlessly disturbs and deeply scares him. Years later, he begins to recall the memory by thinking as if he is talking to Ole Ned, he thinks to himself. "Oh Ned Oh my best friend, how did I ever make that." "HOW could I EVER make that…..."
@@uraidtariq12 the books are greatly different than the show, but cersei did in fact allude to killing him in his sleep or something to that nature. This shit in the show she basically calls him a bitch. Which he did slap her. But that's cuz he was embarrassed cuz she said that in front of his best friend AKA another king. When does joffrey argument happened in the books it was completely isolated to a family matter. So it's obviously different situation. But like I said the books are greatly different. Shit... in the books, currently, Stannis is still alive the battle of the bastards wasn't between Jon Snow and the Bolton's. Shit, Jon Snow is still dead and hasn't even been resurrected yet. Stannis is predicted to win the fight between the Bolton's. Also all the stark children are wargs and it's because of their bloodline, not a gift from the one eyed raven. Arya doesn't kill the bald guy who, murdered Lommey in the fight in the tavern with the hound. That happens later in, in order to get the jump on him (I think dude name is Pollock or something that's starts with a P) she sleeps with him and as she rides him, she then kills him while on top of him. Also in the show Arya is a lot more psychopathic than in the show, her mind starts to become more hardcore as the time goes by by witnessing the horrible stuff she's endured.
Her face when she asks him if there was ever a moment he might have given her a chance & he says no…….. heartbroken. She then quickly sips her wine and tries hard to pretend it’s fine.
@@inceptionarts2947in the show she had a mind for politics and the ruthlessness to pull it off. She wasn’t as intelligent as Tyrion because she didn’t read as much as him. But she definitely has a mind for ruling and politics.
@@alphachief5425 Lol, she didn't. She didn't know when to make friends and when to make enemies. She was just cruel and intimidating to Sansa for no reason. She just went at Margaery showing she despised her from the get go instead of trying to use her to get what they could from house Tyrell. Cersei wasn't smart or intelligent, she was just a fool with privilege. Had the writing on the show being consistent, she wouldn't have had herself any allies than Euron Greyjoy after she blew up the scept and killed a thousand nobles while disregarding the religion of the 7. Cersei was just ruthless for no reason.
Nah it's said multiple times in the book cersei wanted to be tywin but fell short. She was a wannabe but wasn't actually politically savvy. You can tell in the show by all the stupid things she does out of spite or ego. Something that tywin would never do.
Rhaegar f*cked up, and so did Lyanna. I love Targaryens and that's why I'm mad at him and her. They had the AUDACITY no name the child Aegon when Rhaegar ALREADY had boy called Aegon it's like they knew Elia and her children would be killed and they didn't care. Those two are the worst, not to mention the destruction of house Targaryen because of their stupidity. Now in the books we don't know. I still hate Rhaegar tho.
@@julikroos in the books , Jon's real name is still unknown. Pretty sure he is Lyanna's kid because Jon , Lyanna , Arya all have similar faces , we don't know exactly about the Rhaeger affair.
@@subratanandy2142 it's not explicity said that he looks like lyanna but they say he looks like Ned. (I know, Ly is his sister so it makes sense). I love book Jon and I hope he gets to meet Dany ❤️
Robert didn’t love Lyanna. He’s just the typical asshole guy who “wants what he can’t have”. She was pretty, he wanted her, she ran away with someone else and his massive ego couldn’t even fathom that maybe it was because she didn’t want him back. Then he spent the rest of his life bitter about it
@@PhebusdesTours Aenar took multiple wives with him when he left for dragonstone. Aegon I wed both his sisters. A point which Daemon brings up when trying to convince Visyres to wed Rhaenyra to him.
That’s exactly what I always thought - he might have loved her but he adored her and put her on a pedestal when she was gone. And yeah he couldn’t ever have tolerated the thought there was anything else behind the story than a brute kidnapping her and taking her away from him . Which probably hurt him more than the hurt of actually losing her
So what? That's how most the marriages went. Lyanna is the villain of ASoIaF. In the show, everyone thinks Rob is dumb for marrying Talisa, but what Lyanna did was a million times worse.
She only asked to hear him say yes or perhaps. His blunt “no”made a gaping hole in ego so vast the Milky Way could fit in! Just a pun that milky way thing!
All those years of moaning about a woman who didn't even want him. One that he probably barely even knew. And he often took his anger out on Cersei. Love her or hate her, she deserved better.
I believe that Cersei would have turned out different if Robert would have treated her differently. He is partly to blame for the Cersei we ended up getting.
When she said "doesn't make me feel anything" indicating she doesn't love him at all. The only reason why she wanted to know about the woman is because she was worried there's another heir to the throne 😮
She literally said she loved him at one point. Now no of course not she's only inquiring because she's planning to kill him and have her children in the throne.
Why do I feel like this is the most sincere Cersei's ever been? Even though she wanted to be queen more than anything, I don't know if love is in her vocabulary. And Robert....Lyanna left you, she may have been your great love, but you weren't hers. (And you can't even remember her 😅
Interesting that she mentions losing their boy here. Many thought she made that up when telling Catelyn Stark. I wonder if it really happened? We know that at least once they had actual sex (she told Ed Stark about him crawling on top of her and the pain sounded real) before she started using other means to satisfy him without actual sex (mentioned in the book). 🤔
No he's just a pig. He just realized someone was "taken away" from him, and that's the ONLY part that mattered to him. Lyanna never mattered to him. At all. It's only just the fact that he's someone who's got stolen from.
She didn’t really love Rhaegar. He was an escape, and a novelty. They’d met once before they ran off. She spoke a big game about how Robert would never be faithful to her, but ran off with a married father of two. Rhaegar symbolised freedom for Lyanna, and, ironically, he killed her
I literally feel bad for Rhaegar and Lyanna 😢 they were each liked by someone else but couldn't love these people because it wasn't true. They loved each other 😢
Fuck Rhaegar, he left his wife and child to die and started a war so he can get with someone who was already betrothed to someone else. He got what he had coming.
Congratulations, shame about the tens of thousands who had to die because Lyanna decided to be a homewrecker and Rhaegar decided his wife wasn’t enough, so they decide to run away together without telling anyone about it.
Rhaegar kidnapped/groomed a teenager to have a third head of the dragon xDDD fuck that guy, he had a wife and two children. Rhaegar was a cunt who didn't care for the safety of her or anyone else and in the end a young girl, his wife and two innocent children lost their lifes (well, one if you believe that Varys really saved Aegon), not mentioning 1000s of people dying in the war. Rhaegar was so pathetic and dumb.
Fate punished Robert harshly, because he keeps lying to himself that Lyanna was his one true love. In reality he whored as much as he wanted, and that caused her to leave him. She wasn't taken, he removed her with his own infidelity. His own story is a false one.
This was my favourite exchange in Season 1. I absolutely loved it and watched it over and over again. The original ambience/sound is more impactful than this music overlay in my opinion but, still an awesome shout back. Thank you.
She told Ned Stark she worshipped him until the wedding night when Robert climbed on top of her, smelling of drink, master bated into her and whispered Lyanna's name into her ear.
@@TheInternet1993 Good, he was awful to her in the show and in the books, in the show they are not very explicit about the countless nights he raped and hit her, he is truly a disgusting man
At the core of their toxic relationship is the fact Robert never loved or even cared for Cersi, admitting it here. It was doomed from the beginning and all of this could have been avoided if he truly tried to make it work with her. The other one to actually be blamed in Ned. This is his best friend, and he never held him accountable for his exploits, knowing he was betrothed to Lyanna. He just stayed quiet.
Lol people keep forgetting that both of them were genuinely terrible people. Cersei was a raging narcissist who had never experienced any boundaries or opposition, and Robert was a drunk rapist who was happy about the gruesome murder of Elia and her children, and generally let the 7 kingdoms go to shit. They absolutely deserved each other. And the grand irony is that Cersei was in love with Rhaegar, Robert was in love with Lyanna and they still would have turned out to be miserable if both of them had gotten their way with the people they loved.
