Cerwin Vega VS-120 and AT-12 Comparison 

Im glad you liked it and as for me I have a lot of fun making these videos and I plan on making many more. I am the same way when it comes to CVs. I currently own 9 sets of them at the moment but am always buying more and selling a few here and there. Thanks for watching, its always good to hear when someone enjoys my videos

That they are. Mine get used everytime I'm in the shop which is pretty much every day. I find they are a very well rounded speaker that play pretty much every genre of music very well. Never had any tweeter issues with mine but have had them cut out a time or two when I really push them.

@@SavingVegas hi i have a pair of at 12,actally mine are the 60 the european version.need a power amp what do you suggest?now i have a yamaha ax 592 thanks

The fuse is for the overall protection of the speaker. When that fuse blows there will be no sound from the speaker.

@@SavingVegas thanks for the response 😎

I made a video on the entire VS series. ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-PWPwo1C0UbM.html Here's the link to it if you haven't seen it yet.

I'm glad you enjoyed the vid. There are a few places to get new foam surrounds from. Simply Speakers, Speaker Exchange, Springfield Speakers, Amazon and Ebay have them as well. The foam needed for the VSW-12 woofer (which is the model number of the woofer for the VS-120s) are very common and are the same as many other 12 inch CV woofers. I have a few videos on refoaming speakers and there is also a lot of other videos on ut as well. Check them out and if you feel confident in doing ut yourself give it a shot. If you take your time they should turn out great!

@@SavingVegas Thanks for the quick reply!!!! I might give it a shot. Do the mids typically rot as well? I checked mine but with that plastic grill on them it was difficult to tell. Will the grill separate easily?

The grill is glued to the basket of the mid. Sometimes they seperate easily and sometimes they are a little more difficult. The mid should not be an issue. Typically they have a cloth surround that will last a long time.

Mine is a KR-V7020 and my dad actually bought that back in the 90's. It pushed my VS120s pretty good for what it is.

I used to drool over those!

Interesting, I have seen a few oak cabinet ATs for sale here but yeah for the most part they most I see are black. The last 2 sets I have had fornthe AT series were both black and later production (92' and 94').

I have always wanted to get into building my own crossovers. I do plan on doing this in the near future to try things out. Of course there's always the option of buying pre made aftermarket crossover networks but I don't know how much better a generic aftermarket crossover would be. I always felt rebuilding the originals is the way to go. Especially if the crossover uses electrolytic capacitors because they usually only have a properly operating lifespan of 20 to 25 years or sometimes less. If you are handy with a soldering iron and can sorce out the proper values of new caps, the results of recapping the original crossover is the best option. Even if the caps are not bad upgrading them tends to help clean up the sound. In your case with a D5 the woofer is wired direct with no filtering, but it would clean up the sound from the tweeter a midrange. Newer caps will also have a tighter tolerance (depending on what caps you choose) than the old ones so you should be able to get a noticeable difference in sound quality. Even replacing resistors can help as well.

@@SavingVegas Thank you for your reply. Two days ago I went ahead and did a complete upgrade of a pair of Bose 501 IV cabinets. I upgraded the woofer, mids and highs plus a brand new crossover. Let me just say the difference is night and day. They not only get louder but the sound is crispy and the bass is incredible. They are connected to an old JVC AX-44 receiver. My Vega d5s I will just leave alone.

I would recommend replacing the capacitors on the D5 crossovers.

Speaker Exchange has some used in good condition parts for Cerwin Vega stuff sometimes. I have yet to see just the fuse holder itself for sale, you would most likely have to buy the entire crossover assembly. Keep an eye on Ebay.

The mx400 is a great speaker. In my opinion very similar to the vs-150 but with a way better tweeter. I'm a sucker for horns because they are in most cases much louder and thats what I prefer. Would probably be my everyday speakers for my shop if I could ever find a set where I live. As for the dx9s, I believe they designed these speakers to appeal to all the D series lovers but meant to be a little more well rounded for all types of music. Not taking anything away from the original D series that are popular for good reason. I love the appearance of the dx speakers.

One day I might try out the SL series but for now I will stick with fixing up every Vega I can get my hands on.

@@SavingVegas that's cool. The reason I bought them was they had to be nice and new for the living room. They were th closest in looks, specs and sound to the old school CVs I could find anywhere. XLS numbers were nice, but I dont like all the plastic, could be a problem later on. Love the 61/4" mid though. Opted for the SLs, they handle all the power I can throw at them (I haven't tried to purposely blow them up). The boxes seem really well made, but it's not like the old school box's were great. Great design maybe, but standard materials. My only knock is the steal woofers, but that doesn't make or break a woofer. It's about sound, to me they sound great and make my whole block rumble. Even with "audiophile" hifi stuff they have a nice clean sound with excellent lows. I would like to see a pro put them through the test and see how they actually stack up.

Well I would aim to match the factory internal volume as well as port size and length. I would use 3/4" MDF because of its density. One thing I can suggest to improve from the original design is to build the cabinet with a sealed internal enclosure for the midrange.

I want to get some La Scala's one day when I get around to finishing my basement and some tube amp power. That's the dream lol

@@SavingVegas Same here! Keep dreaming bud

@@SavingVegas oh also, check out the JTR speakers, Youthman actually replaced his La Scalas with those!

@@SavingVegas The La Scala is the best speaker ever made!

You can email me at savingcerwinvega@gmail.com

I wouldn't recommend running them on A and B channels. I have learned the importance of impedance and overloading amplifiers the hard way. If I were you I would look for a bigger power amp thats in your price range to use for the 120s. Yes they are very efficient speakers and sound very good with just 100 watts to them, or in your case with a 100 watt at 8 ohm receiver it's probably capable of pushing a little but more than 100 watts, it may be closer to 110 or 115 watts at 4 ohms. Either way those 120s really come to life once you get north of that 200 watt range. Your Kenwood receiver would be sufficient power for the vs-80s and you could use the tape output on your Kenwood to feed signal to a separate power amp, preferably one with a gain adjustment on it so you can set volume levels separately for both speakers. That would would be a better cost effective option in my opinion.

@@SavingVegas so I could use one set of the av to feed an amp? And use the receiver to power the 8’s, and a 2 channel amp for the 12’s? Do you have a 2 channel amp you would recommend?

You could try using the tape output on your Kenwood to feed the signal to a separate power amp yes. As for choice of amplifier there are many options that would work great. Keep your eye open on used gear that comes up for sale, thats what I always do. Those speakers will take a ton of power and the cleaner the better. When I was looking for an amp for my 120s I ended up with an Adcom GFA-555. Price was right and came with matching pre amp. Just look up specs online when you see something you like and make sure its capable to drive 4 ohm loads. I would shoot for that 300 watt mark and at least be north of 200 watts. Be aware of amps with exaggerated wattage ratings.

@@SavingVegas just ordered a used crown xls-402! Hope it’s not too many watts for the VS-120’s! I bought a converter that gives me some preouts also. I’m going to do like you said and run the 120’s from the amp, and the VS-80’s from the receiver. Can’t wait to see what this amp does!

@@BigJipVery nice! I remember the first time I put real power to my 120s. You my friend are going to fall head over heals in love with those speakers when you get that amp hooked up. As for too much........nah, I have ran mine off of a Behringer EP1500 pro amp (450 watts rms per ch) and never had a problem. Maybe pick yourself up some 2.5 amp slow blow fuses lol. If you're careful and keep that damn bass knob centered you can really get some volume out of them like almost unbelievable. Everybody talks about the 15 inchers being able to take a butt load of power but the VS-120s are no slouch. The headroom is very nice to have to keep the power clean, watch those clip lights and enjoy 😉

The VS-150 actually has a nominal impedance of 4 ohms so your not wrong to be concerned about what amp to run them with. I have used many different amplifiers, integrated amplifiers and receivers with the 150s and most of them handled the load quite well. Many factors come into play here seeing as the impedance changes depending on the frequency being played. So the type of music being played can be harder on the amp if there's lots of bass involved and also if you like cranking them up that will also effect how the amp can handle them. I will always suggest using an amplifier that can handle low impedance loads over others but with that said it doesn't mean you can't use your typical AV receiver or amps that are only rated for 8 to 6 ohm loads. Either way you decide just make sure you are aware of the heat that is being generated by the amp especially when listening at higher volume levels. Most newer units will have a protection mode that cuts the amp out if too much heat is detected but not all will have this feature. I would recommend one of your pro amps simply because in most cases they handle low impedance loads very well over most typical home audio amps.

No sorry I have never delt with the newer SL series

2.5 amp slow blow

The two companies I use are Simply Speakers and Speaker Exchange. They sell kits and all parts needed.

@@SavingVegas thank you will definitely check them out

For $50 buy them that's all I will say. Refoam is a fairly easy process and very satisfying when done.

You can sell them for $400 after repair however, once you listen to them, you will likely keep them.

I plan on doing a AT-12 crossover video eventually. Just trying to get some past due projects finished up before I start my next few. Have some 12TR's coming for a restoration and some VS-150's to fix up.

The yellow caps don't really need upgrades. they are mylar. No aging problems. You could replace with polypropylene, but they might not fit. The inductors they use are shite, though. Upgrades for those would definitely not fit on that crossover board ;)

This is very common with most Vega's. Not very often you will see the entire cabinet covered. Some is better than none.

That's awesome! I feel like some of the 10" model Vega's don't seem to get the credit they deserve. When I had some E-710s and LS-10s both running of my 200 watt per channel Adcom power amp they impressed everybody I showed them off to.

@@SavingVegas Glad i found your channel, subbed!

Much appreciated, I'm glad you enjoy the content.

I know, at the time I made this video I didn't have any royalty free music to use in the video. I think there's enough interest to do a sound comparison video between these two. I just may have to do that soon.

@@SavingVegas I didn't mean recording both of them playing the same song - I honestly think most people don't get any value from those pointless kinds of videos. I meant just adding your subjective experience on how both of them sound. Like which has better bass, mids, highs, etc.

Ah I see. I thought I did give my opinion in that video but maybe not. I will say this, with having many hours listening to both of these the VS series has a much better low end response. When running them with my Yamaha CA-1010 I preferred the AT's over the VS overall.

@@SavingVegas Thanks for your insights. Which would you say has the best snare drum snap, vocal clarity, and high end sparkle?

I think both speakers hit that 100Hz to 200Hz very well. Which is probably right around where a snare drum would fall on the frequency spectrum. As for vocals the VS-120 crossover point where the midrange starts to roll in is 300Hz right at the at the lower end of your "vocal frequency". The AT-12's woofer to mid crossover point is 400Hz so demanding a little more from the woofer which really isn't a big deal. The AT demands the tweeter to reach further down the spectrum around 3kHz where the mid to tweeter crossover point is, which happens to be at the peak of vocal frequency. I don't know the individual speaker capabilities of each of these series but I think the VS is the better speaker.

My very first youtube video was actually on doing just that.

Interesting, good to know. Thanks to the tweeter circuit breaker I have never blowen the tweeters when I push them with big power. I think underpowering these speakers and pushing the amp to clipping is the biggest reason people blow mids and tweets.

@@SavingVegas Yes that's usualy what happens - small amplifires clip and kills the tweeter, way to big amp kills the woofer. I usually go with about 100W bigger amp if it's a big speaker, if it is a book shelf you don't really need more power than the speaker is rated for (they are almost always low power, so they vill handle a low poer amp that clips)

Wow that's awesome. No better deal out there than that!

Yup my 120s stay in my shop, corner mounted on shelves about 7 feet up. My shop is 36'x36' with 16' walls and they never fail to impress. Drive these suckers with lots of clean power and they will put out. Prefect for parties 😆

@@SavingVegas I have a Crown xli 2500 for my 15s. Nice clean AB power, and lots of it, sounds great for a pro amp.

Some models had them and some didn't. Models like the VS and their Re for example didn't have them, both produced in the 90's and in the late 90's they had some models that did have them like the E7 series.

@@SavingVegas why do you think they didnt need them anymore?, cost?, audio equipment got better?,didnt care?

Cost most likely of they felt they weren't needed I not 100% sure really.