“Inherently distrustful of the intelligence community but still voted for Bill Clinton” is the one of the most perfect descriptions of my parents I have ever heard lmao
And you think this means what? Clinton is the son of a single mother from a small town in Arkansas. While Bush *ran the CIA*. Holy moly, fake commies are so naive.
Absolutely love this movie for the unintentional camp masterpiece that it is. Infinitely quotable. Every. Single. Actor. Is acting through the roof. John Candy smokes a cigarette with crab cakes in his mouth! Need I say more!
Similar age, and I also saw this in the cinema as a kid and actually thought I wouldn't live thru the night cos the gov would round up everyone who'd witnessed 'the truth' before shutting the film down 😳🤐
srsly, have you never heard of a "limited hangout"?? like the govt would just let some grave truth like that just be broadcast to the public like that. get a clue dude!!!!! goddamn Americans are so CRINGE
I thought it was hilarious in THE IRISHMAN when Joe Pesci's Russell Bufalino is giving directions to Frank Sheeran during his gun delivery to David Ferrie, and he makes fun of Ferrie's appearance.
I love the theory that the CIA weren't intentionally trying to kill Kennedy, just spook him with an attempt on his life to get him in their corner on everything they wanted to do. But it was ruined when LHO hit the greatest headshot of all time and split Kennedys wig. The plan fucked up by LHO being the coolest fucking guy ever.
Oh you are? A serious researcher? Then you know that Oswald was the lone shooter and no conspiracy is necessary in order to explain what happened that day. Right?
The park bench matt is wondering about in the scene with X is a real thing lol, it's on the site where the Vietnam memorial is now I think -guy who bikes in DC a lot
Their relationship with Michael S. Judge may be part of it. His Death is Just Around the Corner podcast is an erduite JFK truther voice, and I know that Matt has adopted some of Judge's ideas (namely that the Cold War was in fact, WW3 and that was just kept out of the imperial core)
At about the 50 minute mark you are reviewing the reasons for the assassination. When this movie was made, most people had no idea how much Israel was mad at JFK for not wanting them to get nukes. We learned about how deep the chasm was on later declassification data dumps. With this in view, the mafia connection is most probably not the Italian one but more likely the Lansky/Montreal/French connection one who Jack Ruby worked for. After all the Mossad/CIA/Lansky drug pipeline wanted the Vietnam war to protect it. Lucien Sarti of the French Connection makes much more sense as the real assassin than any of the others (Sarti was shot to death in early 1970s in gun battle with Mexico City police).
Once you dig into the LBJ rabbit hole , it's hard to get out. I thoroughly believe he had a part and I believe that is the one detail that's so damaging they won't release the rest of the files that implicate him and Hoover, the CIA, and the highest ranks of the military to have him removed . If that sounds preposterous so does a leader being murdered on the senate floor being stabbed to death by the members of the senate and that certainly happened.
A once-great filmmaker at the *absolute* height of his powers, critically showered and commercially gold-dusted, using his undeniable skill to conduct a remarkable cast/crew in the production of a film that BEGS the viewer to at the very least *question* our government. I agree with the Chapo (And general assessment) that on a pure filmic level this is an undisputeable masterpiece. Somehow near three hours flow by as a frankly fucking batshit premise unfurls. A great watch and even a wonderful spark for the right & curious young mind to go on in their own research afterwards, but just as likely to condemn a wrong-headed paranoid to a lifetime of red string. Also to stop jerking off the academic part of my brain, JFK was no fucking "King" and were it not for his assassination would be either forgotten or perhaps even mocked
James Ellroy's American Tabloid is masterful at presenting Kennedy, another historical fiction about the assassination, even better than JFK if anything (from an artistic pov) "Jack the Haircut"
American Tabloid and The Cold Six Thousand are masterpieces that need to be made into miniseries, ASAP. You can almost imagine them in the same style as JFK with that soundtrack.
@@eduardosuarez2414 There's a third part now too, Blood's a Rover, well worth a read, although most of the early characters are gone. Iirc Bruce Willis was the last person to have the rights, but he wanted to play Pete, so I'm kinda glad that didn't happen
@@pietzsche I know but I don't think it matches up to the first two. His last one, Perfidia, was kind of a disappointing fan service where he tries to cram in every character from all the other LA stories. I've read pretty much all Ellroy but there's something about the underworld trilogy that just slaps. EDIT: I just realised he released another one since then so I'll have to go read that!
@@eduardosuarez2414 I agreed with it not matching up on the first read, but second time around I had a mu higher opinion of it. I might read more Ellroy, but I don't think it'll hit those highs again really
The dedication to the youth of America at the end is because right before they reference how long it'll take before the relevant documents to be declassified; Though unlikely they'd ever declassify something implicating the CIA in this case. Also, I'm gay
You guys do know that Jim Garrison did not personally try that case in court, don’t you? He had his assistant DA’s try it. Nothing like the dramatic final argument ever happened.
yes and no, for example Garrison's explanation of the magic bullet with the chart, happened in his TV rebuttal. and things like that, all kinds of sources were compressed into the final climatic court scene for dramatic effect but nothing was 'made up'. The most important part of the trail is often over looked which was a public showing of the Z film, that was a very big deal at the time.
@@JohnJohnson-pq4qz The "fact" that Garrison gave a dramatic closing statement to the jury was entirely made up. It never happened. The various arguments presented in the movie have been made at various times but not in any way as presented in the movie. It's 100% dishonest.
This film feels like you're being attacked by video footage. The editing is so violent, it's like Schoonmaker without her being there. I imagine the pacing is even more relentless in the theatrical cut because I've only seen the longest version.
@@valk5045 don't get offended, I used to actually be a big fan. Just when Michael passed and there was no one to push back on the girl who's name I'm forgetting it was unwatchable (the one with 2 DNC parents, you know who I mean for sure)
The JFK Camelot myth was invented by his wife and friendly journalists in order to cover up the many actual mafia murder and sex secrets of the Kennedy clan ☝️
You know, it’s only just occurred to me, but Oswald is just basically Ignatius Reilly from Toole’s Confederacy of Dunces, except he lost a bunch of weight and switched from being a trad cath to a wannabe revolutionary.
There is something insidiously ironic about an algorithm predicting that i might like to watch a documentary that exposes how i'm controlled by algorithms predicting what i might like.
Story aside the first film is just god tier cinematography. So many different styles and film stocks were used, in switches from muted colors to black and white to deep color 35mm. Just that alone along with John Williams’ brilliant score makes it a must watch.
This is definitely the worst chapo take. There’s a difference between JFK & his administration. I understand that the movie is a bit of a hagiography on the man but I think it’s pretty clear that Kennedy was beginning to have a change of heart about things. Especially after getting stabbed in the back over Bay Of Pigs and that leading him to realize how gung ho his generals were to go full nuclear on Cuba and Vietnam and his growing relationship with Mary Meyer, her being openly anti-war and pro-LSD. (Which she said she convinced Kennedy to take with her) As for the assassination thing I understand not wanting to put too much stock in the Garrison Trial and Shaw & Ferry but I think Stone is correct in the broad strokes. It’s not a conspiracy to say intelligence & military will outsource wet work to organized crime and militant groups. That’s a common MO overseas.
@@gaiusleviathan8110 Wolf? No. A lone nut. A detailed examination of Oswald's life leads me to believe that no outside influences were necessary for the planning or the crime itself. I can go into some detail if you like. Wolf is the wrong term because it suggests he was something more than he was, a rogue, a dude, a badass, when in fact he was quite an unfortunate loser. (So am I! So I don't hold that against him.) But in all honesty, while I'm 100% certain he was the only shooter on the day, I'm only about 95% sure there was no conspiracy. It is possible that he was urged to do what he did, by whoever, but no reliable evidence of it. The narrative of a lone nut trying for many years to find a home, to be important, and failing, and taking it out on JFK, is perfectly sufficient.
The shitty thing about all this is that Stone is such a good filmmaker, he probably could have made an equally exciting film with the actual facts if he actually took the time to.
Then check out Stone's documentary JFK: Through the Looking Glass (2021) which explores what we know now since the Stone film was released in the 90s. It makes a much more thoughtful and convincing case for conspiracy.
I think the movie has good bits and amazing performances but the story is way too convoluted and over long. Imo Nixon is a far better Oliver Stone movie about this era of American politics.
My main problem with the film is that it was built (both narratively and structurally) to legitimize the idea that the Zapruder Film is an accurate representation of what took place that day. Which is problematic because it doesn't corroborate the eye-witness testimony. In the film you see Kennedy's head get blown apart like Robert Patrick's liquid metal Terminator in T2. But the Parkland doctors were ADAMANT there was no such damage aside from a clean hole in the right, rear occipital region. Also, it's worth noting that you never see Kennedy's limo in those crucial seconds when eye-witnesses claim it drove (deliberately?) wide and either came to a complete stop or appeared to do so. Why is the Z-film being a partial or a full fabrication important? Because the speed of the camera was used as the basis for all timings related to shooting. I don't believe for one moment Oswald took a shot (how could he if the Parkland doctors were claiming the shots came from the opposition direction?) - but if you can no longer rely on the event clock (the speed of the Bell & Howell camera) you have no idea about how long the attack took. At the very least I'd say the Z-film has been edited (certainly the cataclysmic head shot is a fabrication) with an unknown number of frames being excised completely. But it could be a fabrication. The tools and technology (an optical printer, primarily) existed and were in use for many many years, as did the skilled people to operate it (I'd be looking at some of those folks over at Lookout Mountain Studios who would later play a role in the effects for George Lucas' Star Wars). And they had the film under wraps for a long, long time.
@@sifunmon Ask a Vietnamese child that has been deformed by JFK's Agent Orange. Read Latin American history on how he was preparing to invade Brazil after his failure in Cuba. Or read "Dark Side of Camelot" by Seymour Hersh.
The point isn't was jfk a good guy it's that intelligence agencies killed the head of state and its a good general idea of when the military industrial complex became blatantly the sole force behind our foreign adventures prior to lbj the president atkeast had the public perception of someone who could control the military even though obviously Kennedy wanted to see Castro dead as much as anyone he could still decommission/defund Cia training facilities in an attempt to seem less hawkish, after he got greased every subsequent president has been a complete meat puppet for intelligence agencies and the MIC
Figures Chomsky would say that. As soon as JFK starts sucking less, as in, drawing down tensions after the missile crisis, firing Allen Dulles, claiming he wants to smash the CIA into a thousand pieces, and making a deal with the Soviets to remove Jupiter missiles in return for the Cuban missile removal, he gets capped. Totally normal and definitely not indicating a security state gone completely rogue.
I'm sure you know who John Liggett was, the mortician who disappeared with his family for a while and only returned home once Ruby had shot Oswald. Put in the work before you make a stupid statement like, "i believe Oswald acted alone".
This episode is from a few years ago I think. Their opinion on the assassination seems to align more with Oliver Stone if you've heard them talk about it recently.
