For anyone who's wondering: aside from being funny for the show, she keeps getting turned away because, traditionally, you are required to ask and be turned down 3 times by the rabbi before conversion can begin. It's to signify that you understand the work and responsibility that comes with joining the faith and that you're serious about converting.
Yeah it's to discourage people who aren't very serious because being Jewish takes hard word and dedication. But they don't actually slam the door in the person's face. They just explain to them politely that it's not a good idea for them to become Jewish because it would necessitate lifestyle changes that would be difficult and annoying to them. Also orthodox rabbis typically don't convert people for the sake of marriage because such a person is not doing it out of conviction and may ultimately decide it's too hard.
@@justincase7848 I think that’s really great actually. I like that they try and weed out the ones who might convert on a whim without really considering what being Jewish really means, but it also allows the ones who are serious about converting the opportunity to reflect on their choice and know that they are welcome to join if it’s really what they feel is the right path for them.
@@nadiadelphi6850 a hundred percent. I don't remember much history lol but I seem to recall that there were times in history when this was a problem- people would convert for the wrong reasons and then they wouldn't want to stick with it. So the sages instituted these laws. According to the Talmud, this is the conversation that took place between Naomi and her non Jewish daughters in law Ruth and Arpah. First she urged them to return to their land. When Ruth insisted she wanted to come, Naomi began telling her some of the difficult laws of Judaism in order to deter her from something she couldn't follow through with. Ruth's response hinted towards her acceptance of all these commandments, down to the harsh ending of "as you die I will die and there I will be buried"- a response to Naomi's warning that certain sins are punishable by death, and those killed by the Jewish court are buried seperately. (This was an extremely unusual thing to happen, but Naomi was giving her the absolute worst case scenario in order to deter her.) When it was clear that Ruth was absolutely determined to become Jewish despite the hardship, Naomi accepted her. Historically Ruth is considered one of the great heroines of Judaism and is the mother of the Davidic/messianic dynasty, indicating the value of a sincere convert.
@ymarrero23 if he loved you he would have married you. I can't imagine co signing for a house with someone who I didn't mean to spend the rest of my life with. My hubby said the same thing
People complaining about him making her convert, he didn't. He was upfront and told her he couldn't marry anyone who wasn't Jewish, he never asked it of her. Converting was her own idea and her own decision... and even when they broke up for a bit she said she intended to remain Jewish, and she practiced Judaism from then on more than we ever saw her practice her previous religion. He even encouraged her to keep her old Christmas traditions, but she chose to let go of her previous traditions and embraced new ones. I think she had a real conversion, even if her first reason for considering it was to be able to marry him. I agree no one should be pressured to change their faith for someone else, but in their case, it just doesn't sound like that was the issue, this was her choice.
Wow that so interesting. I hadn't watched that part of the show and I didn't know that. As an aside, I am sure that at least one of the primary writers was Jewish lol
My mom is Jewish, my brother and I were raised completely Jewish but my dad grew up with no religion so when my parents got married my mom told my dad she was fine with him not converting as long as my brother and I grew up Jewish. He was convinced (more convinced than her parents at first when my dad told them he was Atheist)!
.but its easier when its the woman who is jewish ....not so much when its the guy .....that is why you get rabbis keen to convert non jewish women marrying jewish men
@@lepetitchat123 no actually in the Torah the Jewish text that says they’ve been chosen by god but obviously that doesn’t mean every Jew thinks they’re better than every other race that’s ridiculous there are loads of same sex Christian couples even though Christianity directly forbids homosexuality
This isn't quite how it worked when my husband converted; the rabbi didn't turn him away once. He did have to go through a year of study before they would make it official.
It's because he was a man. It's super important for the woman/mother to be Jewish...after all, Judaism passes down from the mother, not the father. Any woman converting because she wants to marry a Jewish man has to prove she's serious (and will then install Jewish valued into the kids)
Well he said he should not have dated her at all seriously (which he really should not have if he had requirements in mind) and she offered to do this.
She wanted to be Jewish because she was in love with him and he accepted her with open and loving arms when she told him she could not have children when he said he wanted a family and instead they could adopt! Sometimes love is stronger than anything else!
@@serena1516 he accepted everything but her faith. Thats not love. He doesnt even take his own religion seriously. Ordering pork and keeping the game during a religious meal. Please
Mending Wall Hunny at the end of the day he made that promise to his mother that he loved very much and he’s allowed to make that choice as charlotte made the choice to convert she didn’t have to she wanted to!
We don't encourage conversion. Judaism is hard. We don't prothlysyze. It's not supposed to be trendy or"save" anybody. Your supposed to really want it and for the right reasons. It's the oldest off the three major world religions and one needs to be serious about it.
Oy... you're confusing Judaism with... um... other faiths. 1. Mainstream Judaism revolves around how you live. The afterlife is secondary. Some rabbbis even dismiss eg. Heaven. 2. Judaism is one of the few religions without demand to follow it or burn in hell. The righteous Non-Jews will also have place in the World to Come. Check the Noachide Laws.
Okay, am I the only one who thinks it's ridiculous that Charlotte had to convert to be with the love of her life? I would never expect the person I'm with to give up their faith for me. To tell someone that you can't marry them unless they're part of your religion is kind of manipulative and horrible.
the thing about that is a lot of it has to do with survival, all through history Jews have pretty much had to stick together, as there was always someone trying to kill us. survival plays an extremely important roll in the judaism, especially because someone harrys age may have been raised with either a grandmother (or possibly even mother but idk) who survived the holocaust, an event which really caused the jewish people to emphasize rebuilding the community, which means marrying jewish and raising jewish children. it's actually not surprising that harry would have been effected by that ideology. Also there's this really great scene in one of these episodes that kind of addresses that issue. Harry eats something with pork and Charlotte gets really frustrated because she's changing a big part of her life for a religion he isn't even observant in
+Emily S I mean I get it, their culture is incredibly important to them. But they aren't the only ones, for all you know, Charlotte's Christianity is incredibly important to her. I'm not jewish but my culture is a huge part of who I am and if someone told me that I'd have to give all of it up, all the festivals and holidays that I grew up with to be with them, even if it was the love of my life, I think I'd have to say no. Especially if they asked me to give up such a huge part of who I am to join a religion that they don't even seem serious about. ie. Harry eating pork and not taking the shabbat (did I spell that right?) seriously. It just seems selfish to be so unyielding about this. Most people love the culture and history they grew up with. Being asked to give it up is painful.
+desigirl1011 It actually is mentioned that her prior religion was really important to her in the season, that's why she goes through certain steps like having a "last Christmas tree" even though it's not Christmas. For every convert who goes through the process for their spouse it really is about what they value as more important. For Charlotte that meant Harry. There's another really great scene in this season where (if I remember right) she makes this great shabbos meal and sings the blessing over the candles, but Harry won't take his eyes off the tv, and she says something like "I gave up christ for you and you can't even do this for me" and harry responds by saying something like "is this how it's going to be our whole life? i gave up christ for you, so take out the trash?" She could have chosen to say it wasn't meant to be if her prior religion was more important to her than being with him, but when it comes down to it converting was her conscious decision, she wasn't forced into it. Also as a side note this ideology really depends on your movement. For some it's marry jewish raise your kids jewish, for some it's marry whoever but raise your kids jewish, for some it doesn't matter.
I remember what part you're talking about and I get that it's about what you value more. Clearly, for Charlotte, she loved Harry more than she loved her own religion. And it's a beautiful sacrifice. But it's still such a horrible thing to ask someone. And would Harry do the same? She begged him to take her as she is and he refused, he said he HAD TO marry a jewish girl. What I'm saying is that everyone's culture is invaluable to them. Asking someone to give it up is cruel. Even if you want to see it as a loving sacrifice, it's cruel. Especially when the other person isn't willing to do the same.
Im a moderate Christian. I wouldn't mind dating or even marrying someone of a different faith, non religious, or even atheist, but i would never convert just to be with that person. That would make me a hypocrite. Instead I'd like for my partner and i to learn about each other's faiths just to have a clear understanding of our backgrounds and pass that on to our kids.
@@2expressmranderson pretending to believe is not the same as practicing a religion. You can keep your own personal beliefs that a lot of religious people born into religious families have anyway
@@latrolettteeeeeee No he's Jewish practicing the Judaism faith. His point was that it's more of a traditions and a cultural thing rather than religious/faith thing for him
Angela Carlsson even in the middle east. I have a syrian friend who left Islam to convert to Christianity and he was disowned by his father but he is well aware of those who suffer death in the hands of their religious zealot family members. It takes risk to convert.
the other choice is to have the person not convert and marry the jew anyway and then risk their children not being brought up jewish, so im sure they still prefer it...
" We're not interested." So true. They're like Catholics that way. We don't bang on your door to beg you to join us, and neither do Jewish people. Not that all doorstep witnesses are terrible people. A couple came to our door after we moved here, welcomed us to the neighborhood, and kindly invited us to visit their church some Sunday. I believe they were Pentecostals--is that what they're called? Then the lady gave us a little green plant. How sweet, I thought, and decided not to mention that I am the Grim Reaper of house plants. Three years later, our beautiful glossy green Pothos (I think) has a trail of leaves that is longer than I am tall. i am trying to figure out where we can hang the pot, as it has taken over our kitchen counter. .
NaturalDivineGoddess Whilst I do greatly appreciate your thoughtful habit of repeating all the lines for those who may have forgotten them in the time it took to scroll to the comments, but might I suggest you don’t watch the video for Hamlet.
It's fucking ridiculous that she can't have a tree. I'm from a town where the majority of people are muslim and we all put up Christmas trees every year 😂
Christmas has been secularized away from its Christian significance (the birth of Jesus Christ) and turned it into a holiday about Santa Claus and elves and reindeer. Same thing with Easter - the death and resurrection of Jesus but since non-Christians want to celebrate it, it's been turned into the Easter Bunny. It makes no more sense for a Muslim to celebrate Christmas than it does for a Christian to celebrate Ramadan.
@@rebelraccoon9018 true, as long as youre not doing something that conflicts your religion youre fine. It makes no difference for our nanny to fast with us and breakfast with us and enjoy with us our Eid celebration. We also as muslims when we travel to Europe during christmas we enjoy the vibes and the festive atmosphere. Actually prophet Mohammad pbuh would send blessings for his Jewish neighbor during their festivities. So you see its perfectly fine. Share happiness with everyone❤️
This is why I wouldn't marry someone of my faith, I don't want to be taken away from my beliefs but I can't ask my potential spouse to convert out of their beliefs, it's not in my nature to do so. Everyone is entitled to choose what they believe in.
**shrugs** If they stopped fighting they might actually have to learn to work together and recognize that they are more alike than different, and that's harder than just hating.
That's why they fight "sibling rivalry". Each of them trace their lineage back to the sins of Abraham "Banu Ismail": descendants of Ismail (Muslims) "Banu Israel":descendants of Isaac (Jew's) Sibling rivalry!
Not all of us do - I have been Jewish since birth but went to a Quaker college in NC where I met several Palestinian students who I soon became good friends with. 17 years later, I have a Palestinian friend in my apartment building on the other side of the United States.
Actually when they sat down at a table to decide to hate each other they all agreed that the two words were completely different meaning the hatred was necessary.
The thing is in the beginning she didnt like him and wanted to use him for sex, then changed her mind. It was easier for her to convert because she wasnt that observant as a christian. Had she been a true christian she wouldnt have been sleeping around. For him, I understand he made a promise to his mother, and that was his reasoning. He wasn't that observant either and would have made allowances for her like keeping the tree. BUT why was it so important to be married in a place of worship? Both were divorced, this was their second marriage. It just seems impractical. Usually a second marriage is way more toned down. I liked Miranda's wedding the best, no white dress, a few close friends, and a justice of the peace. She wasnt going to have a big wedding and she had a child already. If you are close to your faith you must decide what's best for you. I personally would never ask someone to change their faith, I've had guys try to get me to join kabbalah, islam, mormonism, paganism, and I just explain that they should find someone who agrees with their religion rather than trying to change someone who is not. Because if your values or core beliefs do not match with theirs you cant just change them. Charlotte did have resentments. hence the fight, and only returned to him because she did not want to be single. It did work out for them in the end but she had to change herself to please him and he remained the same.
Charlotte used Harry to get married and she did everything possible to achieve her goal. If it was love, I don’t know, but she didn’t want to stay single and don’t have a family... so she pleased him by converting to judaism.
I guess it depends on what's most important to the person. Someone who is very religious and puts their faith before everything else won't convert to get married or anything else. But Charlotte's priority was marriage and she wasn't a religious person so she chose to change and get what she wants.
How is it easier to convert because you’re not very Christian? It doesn’t work that way. And sleeping around as a Christian just makes her non orthodox not not Christian
A woman can "sleep around" as much as she likes, that doesn't make her any less religious. Oddly enough people never call men less religious for "sleeping around". A woman can also have any type of wedding she prefer, big or small, it's her and her spouse's day and ultimately their personal decision.
"Excuse Me..I don't mean To be rude but I think he Can..Look I am Thirty Seven years old Reproductively Challenged.. I'm in love With a Jewish person It took me twenty years To find him..I don't have Time to play these games.." 🕎✡
Why she had do change her religion, and he didn't even think about that he should be one to change his? Or even compromise that both leave their own religion?
Charlotte is so selfless here, I love it. But I have to agree with another poster: I wonder what rabbis and priests think of people who convert to their religion just to get married (and maybe not because they truly want to). For some people, they love their partner so much, that they would do anything to be with them, as is the case here with Charlotte and Harry. But for others, it's easy for them to give up their religion because they're just not very in touch with their own faith, so they convert just to get married and then they never appear in church/temple ever again. And I think those are the types that disappoint rabbis and priests.
This is something they make an effort to find out with the bet din, which is a "court" of rabbis talking with the prospective convert after a year or so of study to ascertain their sincerity. When my husband converted (he grew up Anglican), they approved him right away because he studied hard and we came to temple often. It's actually quite common for converts to become more strenuously Jewish than their Jewish-born spouses, which is the case with Charlotte.
@Vale Sauce I agree but that was so not the point of the OP's question. Take your smug ass away, all intelligent people know this without your preaching
The stigma exists even in the Muslim community. As a revert, many assumed I did it after meeting someone. I’m not married so that’s shot to hell lol. But the stigma is definitely strong, but I blame ourselves and media for romanticizing religion. The main point behind marrying within your faith or marrying someone who’s ok with raising kids in your faith is critical for those who wish for continuity. In this case Harry is clearly non practicing but is firm to ensure continuity of his faith thru children as any other Jewish person.
Ever see the movie Fight Club? Remember how Tyler turned away the new recruits several times, and how they'd refuse to leave the porch, standing there in place for hours and hours? It's pretty much the same principle. I think rabbis are supposed to reject you three times, but if you persist, it shows you're serious, and then they take you in.
I went at 19 to study and on my own I studied the first 5 books... I wanted more studies. I knocked 5 times and showed up wearing a plain long maroon dress and plain everything with a shawl over my hair too. Nails, face clean nothing on polish, makeup, hair extensions. no nothing in 1995. I told them I was there to study. The woman looked me up and down. "First you arent one if us. Is your Mother a Jew? I said yes but I'm adopted. She snorted then said" No. men only study Torah, the books, and Talmud. A woman like you cant break the rules. No. "and she slammed the school door in my face. "I was like then how the heck do women become rabbis? " Nobody answered me. The men turned their noses at me. I went and told my Dad he just put his hands in his lap and looked at me. "Just like your Mother....." shook his head and left the room.
Nikki Gloom was it an orthodox shul or temple? Women are excluded from religious studies in most orthodox and conservative movements. The female rabbis I've heard about are reform jews
All these comments saying how this would've been a deal breaker for them. It's obvious people don't know what being Jewish truly means and how important it is. I think what Charlotte did was amazing.
The truth is I never liked that Charlotte had to change religion to marry Harry because he could not accept that she was of another faith also he came out with the excuse that he had to marry strictly with a Jewish woman sorry I respect the religions of others but I will not give up my beliefs for a man
I would never give up my religion or beliefs just to marry someone. If I was non religious and oblivious to those things in general I could be open to it but Charlotte is supposed to be Episcopalian, and she would give it all up for a man? Never in my book. That’s way too shallow.
@@rebelraccoon9018 Sacrificing God is incredibly shallow. Your belief in God is the very foundation of who you are. Not something you “sacrifice” to be with a guy. Anyone who can do that was not much of a believer to begin with and that’s just a fact.
God loves Jews because they do all this ancient stuff and keep the traditions alive.. Christian’s are for the light and to keep the idea of peace in the world.. I’d mention the other one but you don’t want to hear where I think it comes from
To be Jewish is more than a faith it is a race of people strong in tradition and values. Values Charlotte has never shown. You can't wake up and say today I'm Jewish.
Gracia Maria Fe Espinoza Padrón - a "race" of people does not refer to what we now describe as "race," ie the color of skin. Yes, there are Jewish people of all skin tones, because Jewish people have mixed with many other types of people. But it is not simply a religion - there are sets of genes that exist ONLY in the Jewish community, meaning Judaism describes something that is biologically inherited. The religion of Judaism was the religion practiced by a tribe of people descended from the biblical Judah and his siblings, meaning the religion was literally named after the group of people who practiced it. It would be the equivalent of calling Christianity "Romanism" because it was the official religion of Rome and Romans practiced it. So, sometimes "Judaism" refers to a religion, and sometimes "Judaism" refers to shared genes inherited from descendants of Judah and his siblings. Based on the context of Lori's comment, she was referring to Judaism as a genetic inheritance, not a religion.
Yeah but anyone born now who are Jewish didn’t experience the holocaust, the same as black people today weren’t there during the awful time of slavery. If people wish to change they should be allowed to (for the right reasons) as nobody alive today experienced what happened in the past. Yes it’s in their heritage but they’re lucky not to have experienced it and should therefore welcome others wishing to share their faith, rather than keep it segregated and ‘exclusive’.
If you convert, you are considered fully Jewish. Converts are considered to be especially blessed because they chose to undertake the extra responsibilities of the Jewish faith. Read Ruth’s story in the Bible. So you’re right that you cannot become Jewish in one day, but after joining a Synagogue and studying the faith, you can convert. Once converted, you are 100% Jewish.
@@Pr0fessorScience Sorry, going to have to disagree with you here. There is no singular "Jewish gene," not just because of intermarriage, but because there were TWELVE tribes of Israel, not just one, and after the diaspora they scattered across the planet. Some ended up in very isolated pockets. Ashkenazi are not the only Jews - there are Sephardic and Kaifeng and Mizrahi and Yehudim Bavlim. And let's be honest. If conversion was not considered valid, Ruth would never have been considered fully Jewish, but she was.
Sorry to say this, but, that kind of woman, as Charlotte used to be..(.'cause later on she changed)..."get married👰" to be Mrs. Perfect stucked in a super-clean house, and really know-how-to-cook-it-all... I... don't like.. Well, much more than that. To me is... so sad, or of a short minded person... Life's short, and there's so much to learn, to do, to meet, to travel, to work, to study, to discoverrrrrr, to enjoy, to share, to have funnnn !! It looks more interesting and attractive, when you rarely cook, on a romantic weekend, for a very special occasion.... Plus, it gives the husband, the idea of "my mom is back home".. that's not my wife ! Then the cheating part comes in... So, sometimes don't wonder why ?!
