Cheap Record Player vs Expensive - Do they really damage records? | Vinyl Rewind 

My biggest takeaway is that the $250 LP120 sounded just as good as the $500 Fluance.

I started my vinyl obsession with a cheap all-in-one turntable (not a suitcase one though). I had it for half a year, then replaced it with an AT LP-120, the same model as in the video. Obviously it was a huge leap in sound, but I didn't notice any audible degradation on the records I had listened on my first turntable. Of course I didn't listen any of them 100 times in half a year :) So I would recommend vinyl newcomers to try it out with any turntable they can afford, but if they're still interested, replace it with a decent one as soon as they can.

Just started researching record players yesterday 👀 This is exactly the info I was looking for!

Your approach is correct. It is genuinely from a place of care. So often in this community, people will bash new incomers for their choice in vinyl playback. The gatekeepers create hostility when we should be welcoming to new comers. Thank you for the kindness. I think everyone deserves better than the suitcase style record player. I'm glad we have access to a wealth of knowledge and so many great options in terms of vinyl playback.

Crosleys are garbage and water is wet - I used to work for Urban Outfitters and I did more RETURNS of these than sales. It became a joke among the staff that we would tell customers that “they’re made broken”

When the world needed him most he returned

Even though i am not a fan of these cheap suitcase turntables i gotta say i DO love they exist because thanks to the fact you can get them basically everywhere for next to nothing, these help a LOT to get more people (especially younger generations) into the Vinyl medium. You gotta start somewhere and if you can't get some vintage turntables and find one of these in the store somewhere for 30-50 bucks, it's a total nobrainer. Personally i am very happy that these things are helping to make vinyl more accessible to people who wanna try it out and eventually get a better player. And because of the low costs these little suitcase players are insanely fun to tinker around with by modding them. Switching the Pickup cartridge, adding a little bit of counterweight on the tone-arm to reduce the pickup weight a little, altering the case to your liking and also perhaps even changing the electronics onboard with a different pre-amp Board. I've seen some of these players that come with USB-out. And since some of them run on only 5 volts 1A you can easily run one of these things from a USB Powerbank and USB to AC adapter. Personally if the onboard pre-amp would sound better with ceramic pickup cartridge (having the right impedance) i am sure they would sound great. Especially when you wanna listen to them via headphones and NOT the internal speakers. All these fiddly things is what makes vinyl so fun and with affordable entry-level turntables Vinyl really (hopefully) becomes a music medium for the masses and not some elitist snobs. What it takes is videos like this here that demonstrates the difference between the gear and showing everyone that having a starter player is nice but you can get even better sound out of the Vinyl groves with a different / better player & pickup.

VERY SERIOUS AND CONCLUSIVE EFFORT. THAT BEING SAID, I HAVE HUNDREDS OF RECORDS AND USE THE SUITCASE TYPE VICTROLA. BUT, I ALSO USE A BLUETOOTH SPEAKER WHICH SOUNDS GREAT. I DID ENJOY THE VIDEO.

I was born in 1959. In the early 70s I played my Beatles records over and over on a mid 60s ceramic cartridge heavy tracking turntable that were standard in 3 in 1 consoles of the day. I played Abbey Rd to death on that thing. How does it sound now? Just fine. The sound quality was pretty good at the time, as I recall.

People in the VC are going to buy whatever turntable that they can afford and that's that! If you have a more expensive and better sounding record player than me that's cool but one should not look down on someone or poke fun at them because of the quality of their turntable. Many (definitely not all) people who have really expensive record players and systems tend to get all high and mighty and uppity. The important thing is to LISTEN to the records and enjoy them with whatever turntable you have.

The main man is back!

As a bio major, it felt like I watched a scientific journal. Like look at that 3 samples, 1 control, hypothesis literally

I didn’t have a suitcase record player, BUT I sure did put quarters or nickels taped on the stylus (obviously for my potato chip records) Dude, when did you make this video? There is some kind of parallel universe working here. You look like you stepped out of the 50’s

Best experiment I have seen on this subject. Separating the audio of the surface noise from the music was the most intriguing and telling part and is what gives this analysis full marks. Great job 👏

VWestlife here on RU-vid did tests showing that isn't the tracking force causing damage, it's lack of a counter-weight and cheap stylus/drive combo.

I don’t understand why people hate on these Crosley Cruisers. These are great for beginners. No one is going to start off collecting with a $300 record player.

Watching this again, I think a good option for those who don’t have a lot of money is the AT LP60(X).This has a magnetic cartridge and is completely automatic-just push start and it places the tone arm on the record for you. At the end of the side, it picks it up and turns the table off too. It’s a good TT for both beginners in the vinyl hobby and those who don’t have a lot of money.

Hey, thanks for mentioning. I am not surprised you came to similar conclusions. My hypothesis is that the damage is caused by a mixture of tracking force and the terrible tonearm design in those cheap players (for example there are no bearings for horizontal movement, it's basically plastic rubbing on plastic). I do not think that stylus wear plays a huge role in my test though, because the records were less than four minutes long, which amounts to less than seven hours of playback while testing. Even a sapphire stylus should not wear down that quickly. On a 12 inch album, things might be different though, and upgrading to a diamond tipped stylus is always a good idea anyway. Best wishes from Berlin!

Wow, that was actually a lot of work. Your channel deserves a lot more subscribers. Great video!

I honestly didn’t think the surface noise was that bad... I have examples in my collection (bought used or inherited) that are much worse. I certainly wouldn’t consider that record to be destroyed. I doubt that most who own these players would be bothered much by it either. I think the bigger issue, and complaint I hear from most people I know with these players, is they can’t play most modern records without skipping. For people who don’t know any better, they may get turned off of the hobby entirely. But if people are happy with a suitcase player it’s not my place to tell them otherwise.

I have been telling my son this for ages. He has started his own vinyl collection but plays them on one of those suitcase type players. He has been buying special editions so that they are expensive. I will make sure he watches this. Thank you for sharing.

I thought this test was superb. The effort you put into this TT comparison and the depth of your A/B comparisons was wonderful. These "suitcase" turntables are a superb entry approach to vinyl for someone who is undecided if the vinyl commitment is for them. They're also a terrific choice to introduce a child into the world of albums. To make the most sense of this approach, especially based on the findings of this test, I would only buy used albums that cost a few dollars each. I have seen $1 and $2 used record bins at several record stores. Yard sales are another source for inexpensive albums. Enjoy the vinyl experience knowing that the albums will likely be damaged over time. And, who cares, it's still a fun way to listen to music, and that's what really matters. If someone is set to venture into vinyl for the long-term, it starts with understanding that there are two types of albums being sold: albums sourced from the original master tapes and albums sourced from digital. Others who are far better informed than me can offer input on this situation. *I know that MOFI and others charge top dollar for their analog reissues sourced from the original master tape. I cannot speak to a new artist in today's world that records their music in a studio. Is it recorded digitally or on tape? If digitally, how does that translate to an album if they offer one? Is it just as good as an album sourced from tape?*

The problem here is that in many cases the people who are readily paying $30 for Beatles reissues are also paying

Huge differences!!!! Great job!!! Still enjoying my AT Lp 120, put a nice AT VM540 ML on it, sounds amazing!! Love your channel!!!

Fantastic video! Keep the good work!

love the effort put into this video. just subbed

Wow, the differences are clear. I winced at one point. This is a ton of work. Thank you so much.

I found a copy of that Flora Gave Me Fairest Flowers LP a few years ago, it's really nice and entrancing. As a Brit of a certain age I'm kind of semi-obsessed with this King's Singers, Cambridge Buskers/Singers, David Munrow, Swingle, type stuff as it seemed to be all over the TV and radio in the late 70's/early 80's when I was a kid and just sounded odd in comparison to the pop I would hear elsewhere.

Extremely informative. Thank you

I started my album collection in the 70s and always played the album through only once while recording it to cassette tape. The records were then stored in their covers vertically in their own plastic-coated sleeves and never played again. Recently, my son took home 50 or so, along with my turntable and he was amazed at how well they sounded. I guess you solved the why. Thanks for all the great videos.

Thank you kind sir for this video, Ive been looking for turntables recently and this video helped a lot!

Great video. Had no idea about the stylus types on those cheaper models. Great catch! I don't think the lack of dust covers means anything. Once you get to high end turntables, none of them even come with dust covers. I own a lp-120 and recently upgraded to the lp-1240. The 1240 comes with a cover, but they state you shouldn't play your records with the cover on. It would be very difficult and dangerous to even try to place that cover back on while a record is playing.

Great video. This message needs to get out there. Let’s end the suitcase player epidemic.

Great video. Thank you for doing this!

What an interesting experiment. Thanks for putting in the time and effort. And for saving a lot of people a lot of money.

Great video. I appreciate the amount of work that went into making this. This is why used records are such a crapshoot. We enthusiasts think of high end turntables from the 60s and 70s, but most people played records on cheap systems with heavy-tracking ceramic cartridges. Most used records have been around the block.

i moved last year and pretty much my stereo space and budget only afforded me to get a victrola suitcase ...i always listen with headphones, and i have been very satisfied with the sound and capability....i'm sure a gorgeous expensive model like i used to own would sound better (especially thru the speakers), but thru the headphones, the victrola has been very cool....just like vinyl rewind...peace...rocky

Amazing video as always

Great video as always

I only got into vinyl very recently and settled for the Pro-Ject Debut III, but damn did I find a lot of videos “exposing” these turntables. I think it’s good for people to be aware and don’t give up on the format in case they get disappointed with their purchase.

Great video and well constructed experiment.

This channel is so underrated, the content is so well made, thank you

Really what this video did for me was clearly demonstrate the difference in sound quality you could expect from different levels of turntables. Even through youtube compression you can hear clear differences. Even between the AT and the Fluance, which I didn't expect to be able to hear in this setting. I'm on an LP60X at the moment and I have a RT82 on the way, can't wait to hear the difference!

Nice job keep up the good work.

I'm really impressed with the amount of time you put in for this video.

You can say whatever you want but, as I'm writing this I'm literally using a Crosley turntable... As a table! Great video and nice experiment. Even though the record came with audible surface noise, it was nohwere near to the horror stories of this turntables "chewing" our records. But yeah, the main issue is the sound. And man, they could get worse. That victrola sounded quite nice in comparison to the one I got, but I keep it for sentimental value as it was a gift. And a laptop table when in bed haha. I got a Lenco L-85 (the new one, not the vintage) and its a quite nice budget turntable, I've enyoyed it a lot.

Thank you!!! Great comparisons

Damn, you did a lot of work to do this test. Very impressive.

Many thanks for this video. I was surprised that the records played on the suitcase player sounded okay after 100 plays. Record was damaged but not destroyed.

Like so may others here, i greatly appreciate the time and effort put into this video. One thing I have seen anyone mention is what happens when you upgrade to a better system. Any damage to the vinyl is permanent, so when you take the same record that sounded "ok" on the suitcase and play it on a higher-end system, you're going to hear every single flaw in the vinyl.

I use a Uturn Orbit and it was a huge jump in quality from the suitcase player I had. Definitely recommend first time buyers to save extra for a decent setup.

So helpful! Thank you 💚

Really enjoy watching ur videos on pink floyd I wish u had those on dvd I'd love copies of the pink floyd videos u did

Really enjoy watching I have the audio technica LP120XUSB and very happy with it I have my needle set at 1.8 grams

I started in the early 00’s with a Pioneer Linear turntable. Sold it and 10 years later bought a UTurn Orbit. Loved it. No complaints. I found a new Rega P3 that I couldn’t pass up so that’s what I have now. Along with the Rega Neo power supply and a Schiit Audio Mani Preamp, a leather mat, and I’m in sonic heaven.

I was gifted a Victrola suitcase record player for my Christmas and I've steadily been collecting records. I am extremely thankful to have watched this video BEFORE I played any of my new records.

That suitcase record player sounded less bad than I expected, but I could still hear the cumulative effect of 100 plays. Great video.

The separation of layered voices is so much better on the 2M blue.

I remember on my first record player, I had that one for a year and never changed the needle. All of a sudden my records started to skip. I soon upgraded to a nicer turntable, which I change the stylus to every 6 months, and a lot of those skips went away after a few plays on my nicer turntable.

Fascinating experiment, and it sounds like you've covered all the bases with it. I'll be looking to replace my suitcase player, so thank you for recommending the Orbit turntable! This does introduce a question for me, since I've just started my record collection: What speakers do you recommend? Specifically, what recommendations would you make for a buyer on a budget, an audiophile willing to spend a lot of money, or someone who wants a balance of good quality and affordability?

Hmm.. Very interesting. Now I have a Technics Quartz Turntable at home which has lasted me forever and is the player I always use. However, I like to listen to my records at work. Yes, at work. I work at a restaurant and they let us play music, so that's where I saw a very handy use in getting a suitcase record. So I got the Jorlai player which looks similar to the Victrola. The main reason I got it is because it's battery powered and right off the bat, it's very rare to find a high quality battery powered record player, let's face it. So I've been using this record player at work and connect a sony bluetooth speaker using an rca cable and it sounds pretty dang good for playing vinyl at work! That little Jorlai player is a monster! It keeps on rockin while I'm working and my speaker accidentally fell on it and made a hole in one of my records lol, but the record player doesn't let anything stop it, it's still spinning like a monster and rockin out! So the pros is that, I get to really use a lot of my records (I have a big collection) so none of my records are collecting dust anymore, they're all serving their purpose and I get to play records at work and with my little speaker, they sound pretty good I must say. The cons is that, I can't really tell if my records are getting slightly worn. I'll play them on my Technics after work to see if I notice anything, but I can't tell if it's placebo effect or if something isn't sounding the same. But most of my records I bought are used records, so it's hard to tell, but I mean they still sound great at home, but I'm just a bit skeptical. Nobody's talked about the Jorlai, but it looks like it's made of the same stuff. I don't know, what do you think?

Great job!

Mate, you're such a geek, I just love Pink Floyd, love the way you talk about them. In 1979 I had a Technics turntable JVC amp, Mission speakers. Great times. As for vinyl, I wish I never lost my first editions, but hey life eh?

How tired were you of hearing this record (these songs more specifically) after having heard them hundreds of times?

This is helpful! Thanks

WHAT A GREAT VIDEO!

Hey Boss dont give a second thought to the haters out there. I love the fact you broke into the Mad Men Studios and are puttin on the suits! Keep up the great work. : )

thanks for a lot of work

Great Video

To anyone considering one of these suitcase ones,, if you're on a budget just grab the AT-LP60 and some Edifier speakers.

Only got into vinyl records recently after finding my grandparents records. They've a cheap bsa suitcase record player thing and it's decent for what it is, an audio out would be very much needed tho

Also: Kudos for the 1964 bachelor pad. Very realistic.

in my opinion the one of the main issues with these cheapo suitcase players are the weight. they are rlly light which makes it reduciolusly easy to make the needle jump. i know from experience, i had a crosley and it would jump if i stepped too hard.

Personal opinion, the pops and clicks of the surface noise makes the sound better🤷🏻‍♂️😂 I honestly just really like that it sounds old. It’s like the fuzzy, crackling feel to an old film but for your ears😂 Y’all can disagree with me though, go ahead

I would very much recommend starting with a 60s/70s portable/all in one record player, you can pick up a late 60s hacker for about £100 in the uk. I have a 1968 portable hacker and it is basically perfect, the quality is good and it is simple to run.

Got a cheap Lauson for Christmas, will upgrade as soon as I get the space

There are multiple reasons why those suitcase-shaped turntables could potentially "damage " records, yet not of them are usually caused by the turntables themselves. First of all, those suitcase turntables accumulate more dust due to their cover-less design. Second of all, most beginners who use those turntables don't usually clean up their vinyls properly, nor do they usually take care of their needles. Last but not least, those turntables often have got a lid that could rub or scratch against records when playing, and they are often played on somewhere dusty or unsymmetrical surfaces like beds and sofas. There is nothing wrong with the suitcase players if the owner knows how to take care of their records and turntables.

Good one!

I never had a suitcase record player, I started off with a £60 jam player but after seeing your experiment I'm glad I didnt start with the cheaper suitcase option

AT-LP120 for life. Its a fantastic record player and I've convinced many people to get it. It's pretty much all you'll ever need

Great execution of the experiment. But there is one aspect which is yet to be tested which Id like to do myself someday. The real damage that is done to vinyl is actually when a stylus mistracks and distorts, this can happen on very complex, loud and high frequency information, especially at inner grooves, called Inner groove distortion as most of us know. The real test is to see how many plays of mistracking is necessary at these specific passages, like a crescendo, to cause permanent audible distortion. Unfortunately Jimbobs and your test samples didnt include particularly challenging grooves. Surface noise is one thing, but when I buy used records the number one worry is how these areas have been affected, often times there is a lot of distortion. So comparing this on a Sapphire or diamond conical stylus vs a high end stylus like MicroLine is what will really show a drastic difference I suspect.

I'm using headphones, but I didn't hear that much difference in surface noise. Then again, I wear hearing aids. And I'm shocked that the Victrola did so well regarding wear. I also noticed the Victrola cartridge sounds much worse than the ortofon blue but the AT sounds almost identical to it. This is funny. I own the AT LP120 usb turntable. It's my cheapest of the three I own and I love it. I bought it so that I could play records over the PA during my band's breaks at live gigs. But truth is, most audiophile sites really don't like it. It doesn't damage records like the cheap ones do though. And like I said, I own it and love it. The removable headshell is big for me because I use it for 45's, 78's and "good" lp's. All three take a different cartridge and it's a snap to change. And this is a crackup: I got my friend into vinyl about five years ago and he bought and loved his AT lp120 USB but after reading all the stuff about the newer belt drives and better cartridges he felt he needed to "move up". So, what did he get? The Fluance 85. :) He loves that one too. We play both when we listen at his house with a nice single malt. It's all blues at his place.

Some time ago, I not entirely sure about the circumstances but my dad got a cheap turntable (similar to but not a suitcase turntable). I decided if I were to use it on those rare occasions outside of the music room (we have an AT LP-5 as our main player) I decided to swap out the stylus with a diamond tip and modify the "counterweight" (the one on there was fake) so that it tracked at 2 grams (I used a digital scale to make sure the weight was right).

I'd had a couple of cheap tables when I only bought records sporadically. When I got more serious about collecting vinyl, I bought an AT-LP 120, hooked it to a 70s Scott receiver and vintage Ohm C2s, and fell in love with its sound. Is it worth the extra $200, over a cheap player? Not to mention the cost of an external receiver and speakers? If you buy a lot of vinyl, absolutely.

So informative

yes, not knowing better is a likely cause for buying cheap inferior stuff. You said it right. I didn't have any idea about the needle material until you just told me.

I'm actually surprised that the Victrola turntable is still working after 100 play.

Poorly adjusted (anti skating, tracking force) turntable does more damage than suitcase type record player. I recommend cheap models like Pioneer pl 745 pl 675, pl 640. Buy one of them and enjoy it. It is possible to find quite affordable prices in the market. By the way really good video content.

First, you have to take into consideration that the "cheap" turntable has a ceramic cartridge and whether using it's own speakers/amp or using the RCA output, it WILL sound different than the other 2 turntables from the simple fact that the other 2 have magnetic cartridges going through a pre-amp circuit. The ceramic cartridge would be input into an external amp through it's "line-in" inputs, bypassing a pre-amp. Next. Not all diamond stylii are the same. Buying a cheap-o record player and installing a diamond stylus would cost a fraction of the cost of even just a standard diamond replacement stylus for any quality cartridge. If you are comparing record wear with different turntables/record players, all should be using the same cartridge/stylus and run through the same amp. All should have the same tracking weight and unless all have anti-skate adjustments, that should also be the same. Should one NOT have an anti-skate adjustment, then the others should be set at "0". Add a counter-balance weight to a tone arm if it doesn't have one already. Keep everything as close to identical as possible. On a side note, Ruby is not a bad material. Do you realize that record-cutting lathes use a Ruby cutting head? Ofcourse, acetates(or lacquers) are much softer than a vinyl or any other type of material a record is made of. Possibly, a diamond cutting head might cut through the lacquer to the base that the lacquer is on. Like I said, you need to make sure that the TT's are equipped equally, as close as possible. e.g. Either equip all the TT's with the Sanyo ceramic cartridge or, say an AT 95E, to keep prices down. Comparing different brands of with identical cartridges would show the difference of the TT's. Make sure that the cartridges are all apples, rather than an apple, an orange and a lemon. OK. What I have noticed with the cheap-o record players/turntables, based on the Asian BSR design, is speed inconsistency.

Great video. Have to say for me sometimes the crackle of surface noise can make a song on vinyl sound better. I mean take the Birdie song the surface noise sounds far better than the song 😆🤣😂

I Inherited A PRISTINE 1974 Garrard mid-priced belt druve turntable from my brother when he left for College. It had a tube technology receiver. By the time I swapped it out for high end unit in 1985. It had been a warm close friend that had brought me through Pink Floyd, David Bowie, Jethro Tull, Queen, and a multitude of rock and punk records. Still one of the best sounding systems ever. Now I rock a $1200.00 TT. No regrets.

The one point NOT made here and on many other videos is what sounds good to the listener and what does the things the listener really wants a turntable to do. You do not have to spend mega bucks to get good quality sound if you pick what sounds good to YOU! A decent older generation turntable with a good quality cartridge and stylus will sound amazing good to most people. I DO agree that the toys Crosley and others are selling as "portables" are not even as good as many of the really old school kiddy players many of us grew up listening to.

I have never played a single album 100 times and I have records from the 70s !

i have a pair of SL-1200s that i use on the party circuit but at home in my kitchen it's the AT-LP 60 all the way. i listen to & enjoy more old albums on that thing than ever before. that being said i'll get a decent belt drive one day...

If you’re savvy and put in the work, there’s still plenty of decent setups out there at the thrift stores, on fb marketplace, etc. I got a denon receiver with phono at goodwill for 15 bucks recently as a backup. It’s nothing special but it’s $15.. I’ve also found 70’s Marantz speakers for 7.99 at goodwill, and a pioneer pl 510 at a yard sale. I didn’t need any of this stuff but it’s good to have back ups as stuff gets more scarce. That’s a great sounding set up for 50 bucks. Get a stylus for the tt and you’re set.

I can remember record companies doing that in the 1970s

I have the LP120 and I'm more than happy no more belt drive players I'll stick with direct drive

There are some good points in this video. My personal experience has been that records that have been played on any ceramic cartridge turntable a number of times end up developing a background hiss when played on a good magnetic cartridge turntable. I understand this is due to spalling on the walls of the groove probably due to a combination of the spherical shape of the needle (as opposed to elliptical shape), excessive tracking force and the needle being too big to sit down in the groove properly. There are of course other things as well as you and your commenters mention. It really is hard to understand why anyone would play expensive records on these cheap abominations of turntables.

It's proven so many times already that those Skywin suitcase players don't damage records, but wear them down more quickly. The heavy tracking weight is based on an old specification from the late 50s and back then the record lifetime expectations were a lot lower. Nowadays records are supposed to last for decades, while back then, people simply stopped playing a record when the music was out of fashion after one or two decades. Nowadays records are considered an fancy premium product, while back then, records were the default option for playing music. 2:19 Not just the material matters. Also the stylus shape matters. A microline tip lasts about 5 to 10 times longer than a conical tip. 8:30 Sounds more like mechanical rumble to me. 9:43 Well, I always put the dustcover up during play, since it causes vibrations when closed. But that depends on the size of your woofer and amount of bass in the tracks of course. 11:10 I totally agree, when people buy all those expensive records, they shouldn't complain about spending a fraction if it on decent audio gear.

The Bass response is very diferent