@@atelier7516 they had a chance in 2020 and they have a chance in 2023. The difference mostly comes down to lewis being sloppy in 2020. Tapping Albon's rear wheel at Austria, ignoring SC lights at Monza, doing practice start in wrong place at Russia. Abu Dhabi and Silverstone we had max winning in an rb16 that in another drivers hands probably wouldn't have been fighting the mercs. The racing point was as quick in quali at the very least. In 2023 others have a chance to win. Alonso could've won in Canada if verstappen had been ever so slightly slower or he hadn't had the fuel issue which held him back. In Monaco it required a magical lap from Verstappen to take pole.. and he doesn't make sloppy errors like many other top drivers. He rarely loses points from anything other than bad luck. So far this season he won every race except Baku where he lost lead due to SC at pitstop and Saudi where he started p15 after driveshaft failure.
@@asherjoseph4377 both 2020 and 2021 Turkish gps were absolutely one of the best performances I've seen In 2020 with the sixth best car starting 16th overtook every body apart from hamilton no one gave that real appreciation like max's 2016 brazil In 2021 him bottas and max were in the same pace all race long
@@SSEF15 huge difference between merc '20 PU and Ferrari '19 spec 3 engine. It was insane, Lewis Hamilton with DRS, slipstream and ERS deployment would lose time on the straights to Leclerc when Charles won at Monza in 2019. Toto Wolff didn't hire the outgoing Binotto because of the stress the performance of the '19 PU put on Mercedes HPP. This stress caused many high-level engineers to leave Merc.
I believe so too as the whole car concept was based around the warp speed engine of 2019 with it being super draggy and chasing peak downforce, also the fact the evolution of the car the 2021 car which did well at high downforce tracks speaks of this And if you look at the second half of 2019 the field spread between the Mercs/Ferrari/Max was a lot closer hence the relative unpredictability of the second half of 2019 with who could win
No way. SF1000's aerodynamics and chassis were utter shit and the car was draggy and unstable as hell. We've seen it as well this year with the SF23,the SF23 is a car almost as bad as the SF1000 when it comes to aerodynamics,chassis,drag,tyre management simply with a more powerful engine. The more powerful engine though is weaker than the Honda one because it has to run with much less powerful mapping otherwise it would blow up every race and it doesn't allow Ferrari to compete with neither Red Bull nor Aston Martin and Mercedes. Even if the SF1000 or this year's SF23 had the SF90 engine still they wouldn't be able to compete with the W11 and the RB19..
@@thetable4638 the sf1000 was draggy because they anticipated to keep the 2019 engine but slightly upgraded, because they were going for more downforce. however the weaker engine meant it. was slow on the straights and then couldn't even carry the entry speed properly into. the corner. the aero was definitely not as good as the merc or red bull but if they had the 2019 engine it could have competed up there easily
Still think to this day that 2020 was Leclerc's best season and displayed what he's capable of. Dragging that tractor into places it shouldn't have been. But at the same time, goofy ahh engine 💀
Since the regulations went into madness mode in the beginning of the century, F1 competition is mainly about the best team finding loopholes in the regulations without being caught.
@@tehidiotboys3010 Yeap, you’re right. I found it different because engines had no limitations beyond capacity. Since the turn of the century they were forced to standard ECU, fuel flow limitations, etc. They’re slowly trying to make F1 a driver’s championship, not a brand championship. I wonder why some of the brands insist on racing when they face so many limitations to sell their own tech solutions. One day I’ll bet they introduce the same formula they have on other sports: Penalize the winner in name of competition. 😛
Just to clarify here, the secret deal isn't "rumored". It was explicitely communicated by the FIA that they reached a settlement after their analysis of the Ferrari PU, the specifics of which "will remain between the parties." So that the deal exists isn't a secret. The details of said deal is.
FIA didn't find anything wrong in the engine, they just knew something was bad, ferrari told them what was "wrong" FIA decided it wasn't illegal but was "against the spirit of the regulation" (like an outwash front wing would be in the current regulations) so they settled for a "lower" penalty, less fuel for 2020 season
Ferrari “”””cheat”””” also fia: destroy this mf team. Red bull CHEAT also fia: nice rb dominated after evaded the bc and max is the best driver ever😂😂😂😂 a lot of mafia in this sport
Well in Austria 2019 Ferrari didn’t have their cheat engine yet. The sf90 was also extremely slippery in a straight line (it also was a more predictable car). While the SF1000 was not.
you are delusional. The Ferrari engine in 2018 was already using some cheats. In 2019 it went a big step forward more using both more fuel and burning oil on top.
@@DonLee1980 In late 2018 Ferrari’s advantage was suddenly gone (same as 2019) because the FIA required a second censor to be added to the twin battery. This was not carried over to 2019, after the summer break they were able to reintroduce it along side the fuel flow.
Mercedes finds a grey area and gets an advantage? All good for the current season, no problem Ferrari finds a grey area and gets an advantage? Absolutely illegal, they gotta change it now and they should get a fine All of those 8 years of mercedes dominance have been like that. I will never forger the illegal pirelli tests, the holes inside wheel rims, and all the advantages that FIA gave them during races. The pinnacle was 5 sec to Vettel in canada, absolutely ridiculous how mercedes got away with so much stuff while Ferrari constantly got penalty after penalty
Is the "grey area [that] gets [mercedes] an advantage" in the room with us right now? Ferrari broke a technical rule but instead of a sporting penalty or fine they "reached a settlement" with the FIA, something I can't remember happening before and I bet will never happen again. Yet people will cry "Bbbb-but Bbbb-British bbbb-bias 😢". To idiots, Fia decisons are justified when it benefits the team they support and "biased" when it goes against their team. Separately, I don't understand why people are still upset at the Vettel '19 penalty, if you rejoin a track in a dangerous manner it is a penalty (doesn't matter if you're "in control" on the grass or not). Vettel could've just not made an unforced error in turn 3 and he would've won the race.
@@danielo7985 they lost 2 YEARS because of that. Just imagine 2020 Ferrari with that corner speed and 2019 Engine, but also 2021 Ferrari with 2019 Engine. A "sporting penalty" maybe could have been better for Ferrari
Bruh Ferrari never got penalised/fined etc etc for the ‘warp speed’ engine lol They even had a confidential settlement with the FIA, when have you ever heard of this happening Honestly it just seems you’re overplaying everything Mercedes does and downplaying the infractions other teams have done
It was a fully legal engine which complied with the rules at the time. They found a way to collect unused fuel after the gap sensor (to use it when needed more power) and that was legal.
In a hungarian podcast, an ex-Haas mechanic said that, Ferrari built the fuel system for max capacity allowed after the fuel flow sensor. You can bring fuel through the sensor all the time hence they could store the fuel in the system (after the sensor) so they could get more fuel into the engine when needed . After the FIA realized how it worked, simply reduced the capacity of the fuel system after the sensor.
Again that engine is not illegal. Fsrrari found a flaw in rules that werent seen by other teams and of course redbull are jealous of it so, like horner always do, they protested it
I think that the 2020 Mercedes engine was equal at Power to the 2019 Ferrari engine or maybe a little Bit stronger. Just Look at the Monza lap from Hamilton in 2020. But the Mercedes engine was legal.
Not really,yeah W11 is faster at Monza but this is down to settings, remember Monza got some sharp corners too especially in first and last section. This doesn't prove anything actually. Not to mention SF71h was also faster than sf90 but got a lot weaker engine. This is invalid argument.
@@vr5lover Yes, but the SF71H was the better overall package or chassis than the SF90. The SF90 had less downforce than the W10 and especially the W11, which is why the W10 was the better car overall in 2019. On all high downforce tracks Ferrari really screwed up in 2019. Hungary, for example. Except singapure where it was an exception. By the way, Mercedes itself says that the 2020 engine was as strong as the Ferrari engine in 2019. They set themselves the goal at the end of 2019 to top the performance data of the Ferrari engine, which they have also achieved according to their own statements. I think in Spa you can see the real difference between the W11 and the SF90. The SF90 was fast on the straights, but the Mercedes took almost 1.5 seconds off the Ferrari in the twisty middle sector alone. And Mercedes was on the road with a rain setup, i.e. with a lot of downforce. I think they could have been even faster if they had optimized the setup for dry conditions.
@@manuelf1818 none of these words you wrote proves mercedes had same power,yet current F1 engines which is more powerful than 2020's engines still less powerful than sf90's engine. Not to mention Mercedes never talked about how much power it makes or what is the power they want to get let alone mentioning sf90. And you proved yourself wrong in your own comment. Sf71H was faster because it had better chassis overall. It's same reason why W11 was faster than sf90 at Monza aswell,not the engine.
When it's Ferrari it's always controversial,but when it's Red Bull Mercedes or Aston Martin they are the best team on history whenever they bring a new grey area innovation...
The difference was clearly shown in US gp when Ferrari engine suddenly lost his power and magic after both RB and Merc protests... secret deal with FIA? Curious...
Red Bull must be seriously pushing the limits of the rules. Max is virtually unbeatable unless he crashes or has a mechanical failure. He has even overcome mistakes in pit stops. That car combined with his aggressive driving style is unbeatable. The extra straight line speed is overwhelming.
That SF1000 I think that was overall a terrible car. I remember the first race of the year and some really nasty snaps in the corners by Vettel. My god, that thing seemed absolutely horrible to drive, way too unstable.
That shit was def illegal. The likely fuel flow sensor(s) was replaced after summer break if I remember correctly, & they did very little after that. Only Ferrari would get away with that kind of cheating.
The curious thing is that Ferrari were the only team running a split battery pack - not even their customer teams ran two batteries. There was a theory the advantage was electrical, and another theory that it was related to fuel flow. When extra sensors were added to both, they purposely slowed down, and so it’s unsure what they were doing. It is tricky what counts as a nice loop hole and what counts as cheating though. Renault had an automatic brake bias system that was against the rules, and were barely punished for this driver aid. Mercedes from 2014 were leaking oil into the combustion chamber to increase power, and this was simply addressed with a technical directive saying “oil levels will be checked before and after the race and a maximum of so many millilitres is allowed”
@@JakeM218 I’m all for a loophole, that’s F1. Or at least it was pre-salary cap. The curious part is the FIA did not release what they were doing. If it was just a loophole then why not release it? If it’s not illegal, there is no need for secrecy.
@@collingoat I wonder who requested it to be secret. Maybe Ferrari didn’t want to media backlash and offered a stricter penalty to keep it quiet? Historically, they’ve always focused on media relations - rarely complaining publicly, even while the team and car are struggling.
People say that the 2020 car was bad, but it wasn't because of a bad design. It was bad because they had a power limitation from the FIA. When you compare this car to the 2014 car, its an aerodynamic masterpiece but underpowered by the FIA. I truly believe the 2014 Ferrari has been the biggest piece of shit Ferrari has produced in the last 30 years. At least the 2020 car was controllable lol
Now i am waiting for comparison of "draggy shitbox" w13 and updated w14. Same engine means same top speed and acceleration, right? How does aero affect top speed in every car and every team especially 2022s RB18 to w13, but not 2019 and 2020 ferrari?
Ok but just a question: Is W14 better than W13 now or the same?? And if yes, was it already better since the start of the season or it was still the same or worse??
Im a ferrari fan but why do people call the 2019 engine "controversial"? They were clearly cheating everyone knows that. They had found a way to bypass an FIA restriction on the fueling system, there's nothing controversial about that. You either were within the fuel flow limit, or you weren't and it was proven that they weren't. But with the ferrari strategists they couldn't even get a title like that. We're in it for the long haul with this team...
Except that it wasn’t illegal. There is no such thing as the spirit of the rules in F1. The rules didn’t say that you couldn’t increase the fuel flow between the measuring times, so it was legal at the time
@@acasale25Lol are you kidding me? The rules clearly stated how much the fuel flow must be. What you're basically saying is that "i can buy pass that rule as long as i do it when the teacher is not looking". Its still cheating lmao
What I see is, obviously, a very different aero set-up with less wing in 2019 and more wing and drag in 2020 and better cornering, but also a different gear ratio: with the same speed and gear they have noticeable different amount of revs. With all this said, you cannot explain 4 tenth's on the straight just because of a few extra horses; you'd need quite more or everything else I've talk about.
@@kristianangeloni Correct. Ferrrai was never official charged with running an illegal motor. All we got is some vague disclaimer surround "misinterpretation" of the rules. Doesn't change the fact that telemetry back in 2018 should abnormal acceleration past 250kph.
I think it was more along the lines of tricking the fuel flow sensor. I can't explain it exactly, because i don't know for sure, but the fuel flow sensor works ina sort of pulsatile manner. It has gaps in its detections, which is when the engine was fed more fuel, thus, having more power. But this is just what i can recollect based on an article I read before. I'd love to know the complete details myself.
@@prateekkumar1247 Kinda like the sensor ran at a lower frequency than the extra amounts of fuel the injectors could introduce? If the sensor is only reading 300 times a second and the injector can pulse at 600 times a second, half of that fuel doesn't get counted? It's still more fuel consumed, so the true limit is the fuel onboard...but that makes a lot of sense.
@@zedramerBasically the sensor measures every 1/30 of a sec so in the intervals between that they set up a sine wave where pulses of higher fuel flow would get sent. Genius and wasn’t explicitly prohibited by the rules at the time
Ita all aero, and has nothing to do with a "cheat engine". You even say it yourself multiple times, the 2020 car beats the 2019 in the turn, and exits. Why? Because the 2019 car had way less downforce, meaning it was faster in straights and slower in corners. Then in 2020 they went for more downforce and it slowed the car down, because you know, drag is a thing on F1 cars. You can see this all over the field every race weekend, a team like Williams has been consistently fast on straights but horrible in the corners. This is because they build a basic F1 chassis and aero, and put a strong engine in it. So they lack any real downforce while having very good engines. Which also explains how Albon can put the Williams in the points at a track like Canada, because it's mostly full throttle with slow speed corners.
You don't mentioned it but rumour has it that the 2020 engine was capped through fuel capacity. They were always short fueled so that they couldn't use the engine to the max. It's also common that cars that are not so good in straights try to make up time on corners. It's likely they sacrificed the straightline speed to have better corner speed and better tyre management.
@@josebove6876 sigh... so by your genius concept red bull, this year, is just burning through their tyres since they are generally faster in corners, right? There's this concept named downforce which helps take corners at a higher speed, at a detriment of lower top speed, and if you are not sliding around because of said higher downforce, it's possible to keep the tyres in good window for a longer period of time...
Ferrari build the 2020 Car thinking the rocket engine would still be on the car. Put more aerodownforce on it, thinking the engine will push trough the extra drag on the straights and gives them a pace advantage in the corners. Plan failed big time after the PU was setback to 2017 settings.
Cheating ass engine. Threatened to sue if any of the details of why it was a cheating ass engine were disclosed, which kind of makes it obvious that it was a very cheating ass engine.
@@WuseligerPinguin_SF yes it does. If a car has more downforce, it will most likely have more drag. Unless you have the rb19, generally downforce equals more drag
do you reckon the w11 would have been faster with ferrari's 2019 engine on the straights, or was the mercedes engine just as strong that season but the downforce was very great.
I dont think so but i think we didn't see how powerful could w11 engine can. Especially they tuned down engine after party mode ban and car was powerful enough so they didn't run it full power. But i think w12 last 4 races could be compared
@@emilekaram6094he 2014 Mercedes weren’t even the fastest car down a straight line tbh that year it was the Williams Obvs still a *very dominant* car tho
Hi, so there is still some controvercy regarding Vettel's car and Charles' car in ferrari. Can you pls make a vid on that one? I saw a vid couple of months ago on insta, someone claimed that Vettel was given an inferior car, so can you clear the dust on that one...
Tifosi are glory hunters lmfao ask 3/4 of Ferrari’s past and they’d be clueless. Ask them about ford vs Ferrari Only support them because of the numbers and nothing else
@@AZBCDEE im supporting ferrari since 1990 and I'm well aware of the history. But i agree some of them clueless (1/6 imo). People who have no idea about Ferrari are also people who just started watching f1.
ahh the Tifosi, a group of adults who act like a gang and bully people out of the seats they paid for at Monza because they wear the wrong kind of merch, Tifosi can #staysad so long as behavior like that exists.
