ChinnyVision - Ep 521 - Book 8088, A Modern Retro Laptop. Is it E-Waste?

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Back in the Summer a listing appeared on Ali-Express for a new 8088 based laptop computer. I, along with every one else on RU-vid, ordered one. But rather than just unwrap and use it, I've been using it on and off for a period of 3 months. Finally I'm ready to record my review. What could go wrong? What could POSSIBLY go wrong?
It claims to be an 8088 laptop with CGA graphics and MSDOS 6 installed. Software can be copied onto it via USB stick and it has an OPL 3 sound card built in.
I could post a link where to buy one but you may as well go and rummage around in the E-Waste bin at the local tip. It'll be cheaper.
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00:00 Titles
00:15 Introduction
02:42 A look at it
08:23 8088?
10:08 Graphics chips
11:44 Power
14:04 Fire her up! Or not……
20:26 Phone footage
24:55 Still no joy
27:03 Open it up
38:50 Conclusion

Игры

Опубликовано:

16 июл 2024

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Комментарии : 106

@TBMartin 9 месяцев назад

Finally, someone being honest. Thank you

@chinnyvision 9 месяцев назад

Just been sent a link to a 1 million sub channel doing what amounts to an advertorial. I despair!

@radekhn 9 месяцев назад

Hi, The V20 is NEC equivalent of Intel 80188 .... notice the 1 there. It has few instructions more than 8088/8086. Just from memory it has ENTER and LEAVE instructions. The V20 has on more feature. It could be switched to 8080 mode. So it knows its instruction set. This processor was used in Quaderno ..something something 20.. I can't remember its full name there.... Maybe it was PT20 or so. Had a lot of fun with it back in then.

@alk7934 8 месяцев назад

I remember seeing this on LGR. I remember being a bit tempted, but looking at it then I thought "Damn, that looks cheap". I'm glad I saved my money. Thanks for the review. It's good to know that this is something that just does not hold up. Those chips probably could have been put to better use.

@chinnyvision 8 месяцев назад

There's a lot of reviews out there now. Some of them now just unbox it, say it's great and post their affiliate links. I seem to be the only person who has done a long term test and look how it worked out!

@Roger-ic7sf 8 месяцев назад

@@chinnyvision Mine's been fine, still using it after 6 months. The ebay seller I got mine from is still selling them, and he's received little to no negative feedback.

@chinnyvision 8 месяцев назад

@@Roger-ic7sf It's very hard to send negative feedback these days.

@craigwalker3194 9 месяцев назад

When you look at how Laptops advanced over the years it's interesting. This is an interesting example if only it worked Properly!

@ctcards2636 9 месяцев назад

Thank YOU! for this honest review. This video just stopped me from purchasing one. If this was $50 id feel differently, but at the price it is and the risk of harming the device just simply using it.... i think not. Save my $

@Roger-ic7sf 8 месяцев назад

A few inaccuracies with the poster - the USB driver needed updating, NOT the BIOS as he claims. It's available freely on the net if you look. 2nd, I'm surprised he didn't notice the BLATANTLY obvious, that's there's no CMOS memory. 3rd, he complains about no battery low warning, when the BIOS and DOS and no means of checking any battery on machines of that architecture. 4th, all the other reviewers on the net never had any issues of that type. The common complaint was that it felt flaky with the construction, and the display shifting one character to the left on random occasions. I own a Book8088 myself, and my experience has been the same as those reviewers, but not this guy. He seems to me that this was mostly a childish rant 6 months later, which is hardly what you'd call of any real value. Especially when he makes wild crazy assumptions of where the parts came from with no evidence to back them up. I'd suggest you get the opinions and experiences of others before coming to an accurate conclusion. Much like the research you'd do with any piece of hardware or software really.

@nekononiaow 6 месяцев назад

Testing for low battery in hardware only requires an op-amp, a few capacitors, resistors and LEDs: it would cost only a few dollars to have a LED based low battery warning. And BIOS/FreeDOS can be extended to support that, it's no big deal. Fact is, this unit did not work in many respects.

@chinnyvision Месяц назад

@@Roger-ic7sf Sorry I missed your rant when it was posted but I'll address this now. The reason the review was posted '6 months later' was because I actually ran and used the machine. I didn't get it for free, play with it for a few days and then post a video. Meanwhile at least one other reviewer did an honest review so don't try to paint me as being dishonest or wrong - arstechnica.com/gadgets/2023/07/going-deep-with-the-book-8088-the-brand-new-laptop-that-runs-like-its-1981/

@RodHull_TFW8b 9 месяцев назад

Well, that's a thing isn't it! Will be interesting to see the quality of the PCB under a macro lens. Looks like it's made from the cheapest PCB substrate tho.

@chinnyvision 9 месяцев назад

It's heading your way. I'd start with the memory given when it does manage to start it's showing 48k.

@davidspencer7254 9 месяцев назад

The white hot anger in your voice at times I thought you were going to take a lump hammer to it.

@chinnyvision 9 месяцев назад

3 months of testing and that's the moment it decides to pack up. You can criticise aspects of the design, but for it to break down is unforgivable.

@endymallorn 9 месяцев назад

This reminds me of the old boat anchor laptop models, but kind of the “mini console” version of one.

@DaiAtlus79 9 месяцев назад

4:32 non standard ISA but widely used on Tandy 1000 HX/EX for expansion boards. fyi the Tandy 1000 series were also XTs (minus a cpl that were 'Turbo XT' ie cut down 286, and that one model of 386sx they threw in when they sunsetted the line in the early 90s. Brings me to another point - someone needs to do this but do it with Tandy Hardware ie Tandy Video and Tandy Sound System so it can use all 16 colors at once and access to an 8 bit DAC/ADC. if it was based on that hardware, i would have pre-ordered one!

@chinnyvision 9 месяцев назад

Screen would still have been a disaster and the whole assembly so poor it failed after being left on for 2 hours.

@DaiAtlus79 9 месяцев назад

@@chinnyvision yeah i saw you had issues. i think so did Action Retro i think. Im hearing about a lot of issues with them 'grenading' as Sean/AR put it. these are dicey when they are using both harvested parts and cheap newer ones with dodgy assembly, and off the shelf hardware. This could have been something good if it wasn't by an outfit who didn't ensure the build quality was there. sad, i was a bit hyped for these. im told the 386 isnt much better.

@chinnyvision 9 месяцев назад

@@DaiAtlus79 The 386 is pretty awful and despite having a VGA output has all sorts of issues with it.

@DaiAtlus79 9 месяцев назад

@@chinnyvision im wondering if the makers did any refunds or remedies or are these just 'aliespress specials' :/

@chinnyvision 9 месяцев назад

@@DaiAtlus79 One of the reviewers who had a RAM fault had a replacement sent. But that was a high profile website.

@arnolduk123 8 месяцев назад

I think the design is good and I agree with you about the bugs and limited ports. I expect furture updates or fixes will be soon available as popularity increases. From what I have experienced, I think whoever is assembling these is doing a very poor job of it with unsoldered or poorly soldered components.

@countzer0408 9 месяцев назад

My first PC was a 486dx2 66, after I had sold my A1200 in ‘94. I’d prefer to have a laptop with a 4:3 screen and a 486 either dx2 66 or dx4 100.

@mattjames6349 9 месяцев назад

I had a netbook! Basically my job realised they were going to be caught out for paying below minimum wage so they gave out bonuses so people wouldn't kick up a fuss...

@joerhorton 9 месяцев назад

I have two old netbooks kicking about, probably better off repurposing them with dosbox than buying one of those.

@DaiAtlus79 9 месяцев назад

yes, even XP era ones! i got a lil newer one from Dell and its quite fine, and you can easily config it to be certain hardware. the only thing i wish Dosbox had was a dedicated XT setting for older games (it technically goes down to a 386 in power but still needs to be cycled down manually from that to play older DOS games).

@robmclaughjr 9 месяцев назад

Ill keep my dosbox

@BenLindelof 5 месяцев назад

It was funny to see the V20 instead of the eighty eighty-eight. Looks like all used parts.

@gubbins1622 9 месяцев назад

Did you keep your receipt? 😣😊

@jonathont5570 9 месяцев назад

odd mine does not do this, it is slow but its meant to be. I wonder where you bought yours from versus where I got mine from, mine was not from Aliexpress. I also corrected the screen by replacing a resistor as well. The were made by a person in China, Had mine for a few months wanted the Hand386 but was out of stock.

@chinnyvision 9 месяцев назад

I show where I got mine from in the video which is, as far as I am aware, the only source.

@MrNicetux 6 месяцев назад

Is it possible to change the memory ic's to get 1024kb of ram instead of 640kb?

@chinnyvision 6 месяцев назад

No idea. And even if you did, something on the board would fail.

@soviet9922 9 месяцев назад

You tested removing the chips cleaning sockets and reinserting ?, maybe something simple like that.

@chinnyvision 9 месяцев назад

Chances are its the RAM which is soldered (poorly). Seems other people have had this fault.

@kingcrimson234 6 месяцев назад

I've had one of these for months. I haven't really had any problems with it malfunctioning, but it's poorly designed and poorly built. It's an interesting little novelty toy and not much more. It might have been more useful if it had more port IO like serial/parallel/ethernet (NE2000?) and a CGA/VGA/composite out. The 16:9 screen is also a baffling design choice.

@chinnyvision 6 месяцев назад

And such a poor screen as well. We're now in an era where even those 1000 in 1 handheld game things have screens viewable from a wide angle and have bright displays. That screen would have been low end even 15 years ago.

@markboyle9941 9 месяцев назад

Great review as usual! The argument that "its only an enthusiast project" is utter garbage. The Amiga Vampire is/was an enthusiast project, and those things are awesome, the most fun Ive had with my trousers on. Why dont you remove the socketed IC's and slap it in the oven, it may reflow any dry joints and you may have a functional bag o' shite/waste of time emulator

@chinnyvision 9 месяцев назад

Its going to someone who will run a critical eye over it.

@imranahmad2733 9 месяцев назад

I think I'll stick with my HP 200LX, the only thing this has extra is the colour screen and the inbuilt soundcard.

@Roger-ic7sf 8 месяцев назад

The 200LX is good, I have 2 of them, one's practically new, not a scratch or mark on it. The problem is the screen is far too small to read, and the keyboard is way too trashy to type on. It feels like a calculator, because they're the same keys they use in their calculators in the late 80's. At least the Book8088 has everything where you expect to be on a keyboard. The 200LX can be a pain to use sometimes when typing a small document up. Those old WinCE palmtops were SLIGHTLY better in that regard. The 200LX can get really slow launching Filer when using CF cards greater than 256MB. They both have their place IMO.

@chinnyvision 8 месяцев назад

@@Roger-ic7sf I imagine the 200XL has a screen bright enough to read, that isn't stretched to 16:9 and doesn't chop parts of the picture off. Or perhaps that's just my one?

@Yokokomoe Месяц назад

I bought one for $170 aliexpress and download a bunch free win 3.0 software, I plan to play Kings Quest!

@nekononiaow 6 месяцев назад

If RU-vid cared enough for their viewers (I almost wrote customers but everyone knows we are actually the product that RU-vid sells to advertisers) they would forbid any review of a product that the reviewer did not pay for themselves, that is simply deceptive advertising. Also, they should impose a follow up review after three months of **daily** use to ensure that some real world use of the product really took place. I can guarantee you that would these rules be in place, viewers would learn to be patient and wait for the second review.

@nekononiaow 6 месяцев назад

And thanks for the honest review as always Chinny!

@chinnyvision 6 месяцев назад

To be fair I have reviewed stuff I have been sent but I try to be even handed. I've also turned down a lot of stuff that I don't want to review because I know what would be expected of me and I'm not into that. But I also buy stuff in because that way I can speak my brains. I also try to test stuff long term rather than go for an 'exclusive'. Same with new release retro games. I'll want to have them a while before I comment. In the case of the 8088 book, waiting worked out well in terms of highlighting the the quality issue. If I'd had it a week no way would the issue have shown up.

@markwrightrf 9 месяцев назад

What-a-Mess

@grappydingus 8 месяцев назад

I've heard they are good about replacing them free if they don't work. Worth a try.

@chinnyvision 8 месяцев назад

That's fine but a) they shouldn't turn up in that state and b) I've sent it to someone who is going to pull it apart and find what is wrong. As ever the Ali-Express sellers bank on just pumping out crap that fails and the margins allow for replacements and shipping for the few that can be bothered to complain.

@grappydingus 8 месяцев назад

@@chinnyvision Not disagreeing, but I sure as heck would get a replacement if I could.

@chinnyvision 8 месяцев назад

@@grappydingus I bought it for review purposes so an autopsy will be more useful.

@grappydingus 8 месяцев назад

@@chinnyvision You can do both. A good way to keep these places accountable is to demand customer service. It may not be perfect but every little bit helps. But obviously it's your call to make. Maybe send them your RU-vid video, too.

@chinnyvision 8 месяцев назад

@@grappydingus Given how many RU-vid channels appear to have received units for free, I'm sure they are perfectly well aware of this video. It is what it is, it's an Ali Express retro computer. At least it's just a computer though. Just watched a video where someone bought a Paramotor on Ali Express and the exhaust shot off and went straight through the prop even though he'd checked it pre-flight!

@ChrisLI-m8j 14 дней назад

Hey, are you interested in 386 or 8086?

@chinnyvision 14 дней назад

Yes. I own an Amstrad PC2086 (with v30) and have a 386 laptop somewhere. But they really aren't my main interests as I prefer the UK 8 and 16 bits.

@ChrisLI-m8j 13 дней назад

@@chinnyvision That's great, pocket8086 is 16-bit, we can provide a sample for you to have a try, We have send an email to you

@jasejj 9 месяцев назад

They probably have a dim screen but a fix for it because they know it'll cause something else to fail sooner, and if you fix it yourself the warranty goes away. Looks like typical Chinese domestic manufacturing to me! It's probably just a power issue, perhaps even one of those caps in the switching supply. Send it to Vince or GadgetUK 😁 I'm sure they'll thank you lol

@chinnyvision 9 месяцев назад

Someone living in a windmill is going to be receiving it shortly for analysis... or emu food.

@jasejj 9 месяцев назад

@@chinnyvision Nice... With any luck he'll make a video on it as well in between trying out old VIC games 😁

@OzRetrocomp 9 месяцев назад

@@chinnyvision More like an autopsy by the looks of things.

@arnolduk123 8 месяцев назад

To be fair, this is only one unit that you reviewed with some kind of imtermittant connection fault. Would not fair to say all units suffer from this issue.

@chinnyvision 8 месяцев назад

@@arnolduk123 Mine is not the only instance of one turning upon with a major RAM issue arstechnica.com/gadgets/2023/07/going-deep-with-the-book-8088-the-brand-new-laptop-that-runs-like-its-1981/#:~:text=This%20is%20a%20weird%20computer,for%20no%20readily%20apparent%20reason.

@eternalfailure4081 9 месяцев назад

I am bemused as to the point of this. I understand that there is a nostalgia market for *anything* but an 8088 with CGA? PCs only started going with games from 386, and decent games from 486.

@chinnyvision 9 месяцев назад

Lots of games for the 8088 and 8086. None of them much good but they exist.

@eternalfailure4081 9 месяцев назад

@@chinnyvision I'm going to go with what you said in the video. They made it because they could. They had the parts lying around, and chucked it together

@JimLeonard 9 месяцев назад

@@chinnyvisionWell, some of them good. But it does take work to find them; most of the good ones that aren't the big five (infocom, sierra, lucasarts, origin, electronic arts) are hidden gems that take a lot of wading through garbage to find.

@nekononiaow 6 месяцев назад

Huh, anyone who played with PCs in the early 80s will say otherwise, there are enormous amount of CGA, EGA games on PC which are worth a try. Don't mistake "graphically impressive" with "good".

@nekononiaow 6 месяцев назад

And yes, they will be slow sometimes on an 8088 but not always, developers coded for the CPUs they had back then and many a PC developer did not start with 386s or even 286s. Remember that Wolfenstein 3D required a 286 but was released in the early 90s... The 286 and 386 were just becoming mainstream enough for games to target them. VGA in the 80s was the privilege of companies or rich people.

@craigcharlesworth1538 9 месяцев назад

Thumbs up just for the Timelash joke.

@chinnyvision 9 месяцев назад

Always got something for the barkers on this channel!

@scyphe 9 месяцев назад

I have one question: Why? Is there some weird nostalgia running very very old dos programs? I like old computers but an 8088 pc laptop? Nope.

@chinnyvision 9 месяцев назад

In America, yes. Channels like LGR run very low spec PC's. Here, not really.

@markwilliams8281 9 месяцев назад

I bought a Psion Series 7 off ebay last month for £50. It runs an XT emulator, which will play Dos games. Its about the same size as these.

@SomePeopleCallMeWulfman 9 месяцев назад

The Psion 7 /netBook was amazing! Every laptop should feature faux leather

@kryan 9 месяцев назад

Getting a Series 7 for £50 is an absolute bargain.

@markwilliams8281 9 месяцев назад

@@kryan yes, it was listed as a "Pesion" with a faulty battery. No-one else bid, and turns out the battery was fine just needed the correct voltage charger.

@KrzysztofC-1 9 месяцев назад

I think you are expecting too much from this cheaply made unit which probably costs them less than $100 to make and has large profit margin and very little quality control, so every unit will have different issues. If only the screen was better for the same price, OR if it was $100 as is. Maybe there will be a V2 version, maybe they will start offer different screen choices, maybe even IPS.

@chinnyvision 9 месяцев назад

Is it expecting too much for it to actually work?

@OzRetrocomp 9 месяцев назад

Top tip: If you want a Book8088, buy an Amstrad PPC instead. Sure it's a little bigger, but the screen is on par with the Book8088 and it'll probably be cheaper to buy.

@chinnyvision 9 месяцев назад

Screen isn't colour and the PPC is huge. It also has a V30 so again cycle accurate stuff for the 8086 is out. The hope here was for a small package that would be the real deal. It's small but the rest is bodged.

@skonkfactory 9 месяцев назад

The ATF1508 is a CPLD- reconfigurable logic a bit like an FPGA, but a bit different. So I guess this thing's entire chipset is split across those three big CPLDs. Pity they didn't use an FPGA, they could've fit the whole thing in one.

@nekononiaow 6 месяцев назад

FPGAs cost an order of magnitude more than CPLDs, that is probably why they chose to use the latter. Also, not all applications require the flexibility of an FPGA and one can do a lot of things with CPLDs especially if one only wants fixed function as is the case here.

@PG-gs5vb 9 месяцев назад

While this does not seem to be a greatly built machine, you may have just been unlucky to receive a faulty unit, and are basing your general impressions upon that. It may feel like a piece of cr*p to you, but for others who have a working unit it might be just fine, considering the price they paid.

@chinnyvision 9 месяцев назад

Except I know that everyone receives a screen that is too dim and that at that one major website received a unit with a major RAM fault. I also know that every unit from my batch has a USB connector that refuses to work. And finally it turns out that I was one of the lucky people to get a functional on/off switch. I did check other users experience but reported on my own experience.

@PG-gs5vb 9 месяцев назад

@@chinnyvision Fair enough.

@arnolduk123 8 месяцев назад

@@chinnyvision So you have a working on/off switch for a non-working notebook..and the other batch work but you can't turn them on 😂. The USB port requires a driver and there is an update available for it.

@chinnyvision 8 месяцев назад

@@arnolduk123 The fact the USB needs a driver update just shows the entire thing was shipped with zero testing. I shouldn't have to update the driver. It should just work. There's simply no care or attention to detail with this cursed device.

@arnolduk123 8 месяцев назад

@@chinnyvision Yes it does appear to have been released without much if any testing. The mode 80 warning sticker is a clear indication.

@willrobinson7599 9 месяцев назад

Am i missing something here, nearly 200 quid for that ? Spec rubbish ,screen rubbish, cheap build quality , why would u buy

@lasskinn474 9 месяцев назад

a curio mostly. dunno how the creator of it views it though, let me explain a bit, I live in thailand. I haven't seen a retro pc in years. would need to import from japan, usa or europe to get one. from when computers started having like a gig of ram or so there's plenty though, but like pentium mmx era or older. it's probably a lot cooler to him than it would be for someone who had a pc in 90s. I'd much rather have some pentium mmx laptop or something though than these or even a 386 laptop as long as it had vga out.

@chinnyvision 9 месяцев назад

Because done properly this would be pretty cool. The chance to run early PC software on an original spec machine. A real 8088 with the exact timings. A real CGA CRTC. Except what you get is a mess.

@davidspencer7254 9 месяцев назад

Yeah, exactly.

@lasskinn474 9 месяцев назад

@@chinnyvision yeah.. but if you can get locally a 1640 in few hundred bucks it's not so appealing.. maybe the size

@chinnyvision 9 месяцев назад

@@lasskinn474 Size and it's setup to boot from a CF card and has USB storage (which doesn't work). So it's more convenient. If it worked and was as sold (and had video out)

@Roger-ic7sf 8 месяцев назад

A few inaccuracies with this reviewer - the USB driver needed updating, NOT the BIOS as he claims. It's available freely on the net if you look. 2nd, I'm surprised he didn't notice the BLATANTLY obvious, that there's no CMOS memory, the clock is not backed up. 3rd, he complains about no battery low warning, when the BIOS and DOS have no means of checking any battery on machines of that architecture. 4th, all the other reviewers on the net never had any issues of the issues he experienced. The common complaint was that it felt flaky with the construction when holding it, and the display shifting one character to the left on random occasions. I own a Book8088 myself, and my experience has been the same as those reviewers, but not this guy. He seems to me that this was mostly a childish rant 6 months later, which is hardly what you'd call of any real value. Especially when he makes wild crazy assumptions of where the parts came from with no evidence to back them up. I'd suggest everyone get the opinions and experiences of others before coming to an accurate conclusion. Much like the research you'd do with any piece of hardware or software really.

@chinnyvision 8 месяцев назад

Can you not talk directly to me? Considering your comment lands on my notifications. Instead writing a review of my review like a Tesco Value Mark Kermode. My review is my own experience and I seem to be one of the few reviewers who PAID for the unit themselves. No low battery warning is a MAJOR issue. I don't care if the BIOS doesn't support it. The system builder should build in a notification. Hell even an Amstrad PPC will scream at you if the battery is low and they date from the late 1980's. No low battery warning in 2023 is pathetic beyond words. A device you spend money on should just work. You shouldn't have to mess around with drivers and flashing things. The fact I experienced issues that no other reviewer experienced probably says more about my actual testing of the unit over months than just pulling it out of the box and then trying to get a review online as fast as possible. I'm sorry you disliked the review but tough. Good day to you.

@cardinalnight3883 9 месяцев назад

Great review. Terrible product.

@Yukatoshi 9 месяцев назад

"Cheap Chinese crap" indeed.

@arnolduk123 8 месяцев назад

So what you expect for $200, you get what you pay for. Go and pay $2000 if you expect more. Nothing to do with being Chinese. Maybe the intermittant fault is put there on purpose as part of the nostalgia, machines of that era would always fail to boot every other day 😉Anyway, he could easily return it instead of moaning all through the video.