I’m a counselor who isChristian and have always worked for faith-based practices. I even went to a Christian university to get my counseling education because I know how kookie secular therapists can be. I view what I do as a ministry to this who are hurting and I’m genuinely trying to help people get better. It disturbs me to think Christians might avoid therapy all together simply because of a few bad examples. Before becoming a counselor I was also a pastor and I can tell you pastors don’t get nearly enough counseling training and can do more harm than good sometimes. So, please, if you’re hurting and struggling with a major problem, seek out a counselor who has a good reputation and track record and adheres to ethical practices and Christian principles. We are out there.
Respectfully, I disagree with your assertion that there is even a need for so-called "mental health counseling". Allow me to clarify: Behavioral health sciences training aside, most pastors are NOT otherwise equipped to handle the real behavioral health needs of people, but it isn't for the reasons you (or most) might think; meaning, it is not for lack of formal education or training. In a word, it is due to a lack of relationship with HOLY SPIRIT. Most pastors in churches today lack even a basic understanding of HOLY SPIRIT (and how the spirit realm works), nevermind the fact that they are not even walking in relationship with HOLY SPIRIT. If "JESUS is the ultimate healer", then that's all that needs to be said and there is no other "healer" but HIM (and HOLY SPIRIT; GOD in the Trinity). I believe it is clear that ALL behavioral health issues are demonic in origin and, therefore, must be met head-on in the spirit realm (by and with HOLY SPIRIT), not in a clinical setting or with a "trained mental health counselor". We might agree that the Bible alone is not enough, as the Bible merely educates us as to the reality of the demonic existence in the spirit realm, but the Bible alone CANNOT equip any believer to address any of those realities in the spirit realm. Believers in CHRIST need to be in relationship with HOLY SPIRIT in order to be successful doing that. (It's the difference between knowing that some can benchpress 400lbs versus allowing GOD to strengthen our muscles over time to make us stronger, such that we become capable of bench-pressing 400lbs in HIM, by and through HIS power). I do not deny that many (specifically) mental health issues have a cerebro-chemical reality, but that does NOT mean that the underlying "condition" is not demonic in origin. I will prove my point to you in the following: Take Tourette Syndrome, for example. Why does this "syndrome" (that is defined in the DSM) result in such demonic and foul language? Why doesn't it result in the sufferer incessantly uttering the word "watermelon" or any other pedestrian and arbitrary word(s)? Why is it that so many so-called "mental health conditions" result in attempts at SUlClDE and ideation thereof? Again, why don't they merely result in the sufferer uncontrollably eating apples instead of attempting SUlClDE? Why is it that the outcome (or attempted outcome) of so many "clinical mental disorders" is death and destruction that truly robs the sufferer of healthy living? Why does that sound so familiar? "The thief does not come except to steal, and to kill, and to destroy. I have come that they may have life, and that they may have it more abundantly." (John 10:10) In short, the evil one is the cause of ALL mental illness and behavioral issues, and JESUS (and the HOLY SPIRIT) is the only true cure! The pastor of our church recently did a series on mental health, and he classified some mental health issues as "spritual", others as "physical", and some as "medical" (or "clinical"), suggesting that the latter category requires intervention from "mental health experts". This is such a cop-out! If JESUS is the "ultimate healer", then why are we looking to the culture to provide remedies? On one Sunday during the series, he invited a married couple to speak from out-of-state. They were both "licensed mental health counselors" with the wife having a masters degree and the husband having some sort of doctoral degree. They own their own counseling center and see patients regularly (and have been doing so for 30yrs). They both claimed to be Christians. There were three things that struck me most about their talk: 1) The wife shared some biblical passages at the beginning, glossing over them so quickly that I literally could not turn to each passage of scripture before she had moved on to the next (and I know my way around the Bible!). 2) After plastering about eight Bible verses on-screen and quickly rattling them off, the wife covering all of them in a span of about 5min, the husband then puts on-screen some excerpts from the DSM and spends a lengthy amount of time covering its claims. (I cannot be sure how long it was, but it was easily 15min; a far cry longer than they had spent sharing from the Bible.) BTW: For those of you who don't know, the DSM is a demonically-inspired book that has been changed over time, as subsequent editions have been "updated". The current version, DSM-5-TR, no longer regards homosexuality as a mental condition, and the APA has affirmed homosexuality as a "normal" behavior not requiring therapy. What business has anyone to recite from this demonic book in the affirmative during a church service? 3) The husband rattled off some general mental health statistics in the beginning of their talk, and he made an audacious statement after doing so, saying, "I don't need the HOLY SPIRIT to tell me [BLANK, regarding the statistics because he was supremely confident of the data in his field]." That was all I needed to hear right there. I finally closed my Bible in disgust, seeing as how it was not going to be needed. In hindsight, I wish I had told my wife and daughter that we are leaving and got up and walked out.
I'm not even a Christian and I want to DISTANCE myself from any therapist or psychologist. Everyone knows their own life. And I have OCD. Literature helped me learn a lot about psychology and human nature. And the 2nd chapter of Chesterton's Orthodoxy was one of the best things for my OCD.
I always had the teams I managed complete the Myers-Briggs and was proud of the use of the tool to identify our strengths. About a year ago, the Holy Spirit spoke to me about identifying with secular personality designations and reminded me that "we are crucified with Christ" and our identify is in Him. I got rid of all the personality assessment stuff.
@jane6732 whoa 😮 praise God, a little over year now, while I was speaking with someone about being an introvert and my proclivities and tendencies- I heard the Holy Spirit say Stop, no longer will you identify with such things. Then with understanding that only He could show in the Word, it was about are identity in Christ and putting away vein and empty philosophies. I learned about being an introvert when I was in corporate America and taking the Myers Briggs assessment. Now I fully realize that with the indwelling of the Holy Spirit I am sufficient in Christ’s sufficiency!
I used to like that test, until I heard about this spiritual stuff behind it - I strongly recognised myself from the type description it gave me, and it made me feel more valid being a more, I guess dynamic and assertive person in a country of more chill and docile people. I felt like I was a "thing" and not just "that person". Not that anyone looks down on me, but I often stand out. I also think part of the charm of the test is that it takes these small distinct details about us and combines them into an easily readable and understandable "profile". It gives you that "Aha!" experience, even though technically you knew all of the stuff already, now it's just worded neatly and compactly instead of a hundred separate bullet points inside of our heads.
My husband and I saw a pre-marital Christian counselor before we got married. It literally saved our relationship. I thank God for the talented and compassionate brothers and sisters in Christ who see the worst of humanity [every day] and still give God the glory.
I am a Licensed Professional Counselor and I am a Christian. I went to seminary to get my degree (Masters in Christian Counseling) because I believe Jesus is the ultimate healer and I wanted a Biblical perspective but there are different options. I pursued licensure, which is regulated by a board and we accept insurance, etc. Many pastors I know studied professional counseling but many other pastors I know studied Biblical counseling. There is a difference and I agree many people do not know that difference but there is a need for both! While the Bible is the most important authority in my life, I would not go to my pastor or someone trained in the Bible, for a medical issue- diabetes, broken foot or to deliver my baby, or even a mental health issues. There is a time and place for both types of counseling. Some adjustment or marital distress, Biblical counseling is probably sufficient and I agree that the local church should be the place that hurting people can go, but even my pastor knows his limits. He will meet with people and often refer them to our office because his knowledge is limited.
As a medical provider I completely and wholeheartedly agree with this. God gives us all knowledge and science is from God. This is like telling someone to go to their pastor to treat their diabetes. A secular counselor for a Christian is a terrible idea. But a LICENSED counselor who is ALSO a CHRISTIAN is the best of both!
I am a patient with severe complex ptsd and was deeply hurt by the church because they had no understanding of how to help someone like me. It's time the church looked at this serious issue that it's neglected for so long. There are so many of us out there , the one isolated not part of the ninety nine. We need the church and we need counseling. I would love it if we could find it it one place.
Respectfully, I disagree with your assertion that there is even a need for so-called "mental health counseling". Allow me to clarify: Behavioral health sciences training aside, most pastors are NOT otherwise equipped to handle the real behavioral health needs of people, but it isn't for the reasons you (or most) might think; meaning, it is not for lack of formal education or training. In a word, it is due to a lack of relationship with HOLY SPIRIT. Most pastors in churches today lack even a basic understanding of HOLY SPIRIT (and how the spirit realm works), nevermind the fact that they are not even walking in relationship with HOLY SPIRIT. If "JESUS is the ultimate healer", then that's all that needs to be said and there is no other "healer" but HIM (and HOLY SPIRIT; GOD in the Trinity). I believe it is clear that ALL behavioral health issues are demonic in origin and, therefore, must be met head-on in the spirit realm (by and with HOLY SPIRIT), not in a clinical setting or with a "trained mental health counselor". We might agree that the Bible alone is not enough, as the Bible merely educates us as to the reality of the demonic existence in the spirit realm, but the Bible alone CANNOT equip any believer to address any of those realities in the spirit realm. Believers in CHRIST need to be in relationship with HOLY SPIRIT in order to be successful doing that. (It's the difference between knowing that some can benchpress 400lbs versus allowing GOD to strengthen our muscles over time to make us stronger, such that we become capable of bench-pressing 400lbs in HIM, by and through HIS power). I do not deny that many (specifically) mental health issues have a cerebro-chemical reality, but that does NOT mean that the underlying "condition" is not demonic in origin. I will prove my point to you in the following: Take Tourette Syndrome, for example. Why does this "syndrome" (that is defined in the DSM) result in such demonic and foul language? Why doesn't it result in the sufferer incessantly uttering the word "watermelon" or any other pedestrian and arbitrary word(s)? Why is it that so many so-called "mental health conditions" result in attempts at SUlClDE and ideation thereof? Again, why don't they merely result in the sufferer uncontrollably eating apples instead of attempting SUlClDE? Why is it that the outcome (or attempted outcome) of so many "clinical mental disorders" is death and destruction that truly robs the sufferer of healthy living? Why does that sound so familiar? 🤔 "The thief does not come except to steal, and to kill, and to destroy. I have come that they may have life, and that they may have it more abundantly." (John 10:10) In short, the evil one is the cause of ALL mental illness and behavioral issues, and JESUS (and the HOLY SPIRIT) is the only true cure! The pastor of our church recently did a series on mental health, and he classified some mental health issues as "spritual", others as "physical", and some as "medical" (or "clinical"), suggesting that the latter category requires intervention from "mental health experts". This is such a cop-out! If JESUS is the "ultimate healer", then why are we looking to the culture to provide remedies? On one Sunday during the series, he invited a married couple to speak from out-of-state. They were both "licensed mental health counselors" with the wife having a masters degree and the husband having some sort of doctoral degree. They own their own counseling center and see patients regularly (and have been doing so for 30yrs). They both claimed to be Christians. There were three things that struck me most about their talk: 1) The wife shared some biblical passages at the beginning, glossing over them so quickly that I literally could not turn to each passage of scripture before she had moved on to the next (and I know my way around the Bible!). 2) After plastering about eight Bible verses on-screen and quickly rattling them off, the wife covering all of them in a span of about 5min, the husband then puts on-screen some excerpts from the DSM and spends a lengthy amount of time covering its claims. (I cannot be sure how long it was, but it was easily 15min; a far cry longer than they had spent sharing from the Bible.) BTW: For those of you who don't know, the DSM is a demonically-inspired book that has been changed over time, as subsequent editions have been "updated". The current version, DSM-5-TR, no longer regards homosexuality as a mental condition, and the APA has affirmed homosexuality as a "normal" behavior not requiring therapy. What business has anyone to recite from this demonic book in the affirmative during a church service? 3) The husband rattled off some general mental health statistics in the beginning of their talk, and he made an audacious statement after doing so, saying, "I don't need the HOLY SPIRIT to tell me [BLANK, regarding the statistics because he was supremely confident of the data in his field]." That was all I needed to hear right there. I finally closed my Bible in disgust, seeing as how it was not going to be needed. In hindsight, I wish I had told my wife and daughter that we are leaving and got up and walked out.
I think it very much so depends. Matters of mental and emotional anguish or stress is nearly grunted to be bound in some way to the areas of morality, righteousness, and sin. I think going to your pastor when you’re struggling with chronic depression makes perfect sense as opposed to going to him with a broken foot- If that makes sense.
Was listening to the introduction and automatically thought about the differences between Biblical and Christian counseling.... Then my old Biblical counseling professor who taught me that pops on the screen! Wonderful professor and my favorite class that had real impact on my daily life. Thank you Dr Johnson!
Clinical depression is real. Therapy can help. Medication can help. Doesn’t always help- sometimes they hurt. But they certainly can help. Using modern day science isn’t always bad. He is making it sound like depression is just a bad feeling or low self esteem. Yeah it’s more than that. Dr. Johnson appears very ignorant on true clinical disorders. Biblical counseling I believe would be beneficial for pre/marriage counseling, spiritual warfare, getting out of a rut, etc. Sometimes we need more help. I am certain God has used my clinical depression (controlled by medication secondary to His Word and Himself) to draw me closer to Himself. I’m so thankful for that.
One thing that wasn't stressed enough and needs to be said is that if you are a Christian, you should belong to a local church, and that should be the first place and the first people you should be going to for help before you start going anywhere else. Sometimes outside help is needed, but God designed the means of your local church to be the primary way that we get wise counsel, discipleship, and healing.
Amen! There’s so much in the Bible that supports being part of a good church. If you don’t have a good church in your area, move! If you don’t respect your pastor, find a church where you can trust and follow the pastor. My parents moved for a church and that included my dad giving up his dream job - they’ve never regretted it. Also, can anyone share a Bible verse that supports going to a therapist?
@@SeaMichelle1 I hear ya. I guess I am prejudice because I’ve never had a time in my life that I couldn’t get the Biblical counsel I needed from my circle of family and church. I have NEVER gone to my parents or pastor or pastor’s wife for advice or counsel and they told me, “I don’t know and don’t have an answer.” They’ve always been able to share Bible and prayer with me that led me to an answer I had peace and understanding with. It goes back to the thought of the Bible encouraging you to have a home church and shepherd you can follow. Plus, we in America are blessed with freedom to have access to the whole Bible.
Allie it'd be great if you had a solid biblically sound Christian Psychologist like Henry Cloud or John Townsend on your show for an integrative perspective
Thank you for having him on your podcast! Finding out about biblical counseling and learning more about it really transformed my life. I'm so thankful to be able to deal with my personal problems through a biblical lens. It's honestly been so encouraging to figure out my sin issues that I struggle with and to be able to meditate on Scriptures and see what God's Word says about specific issues. One thing I don't understand is when people view acknowledging our sins as shaming. It's not shameful. It's encouraging and awesome to be aware of our struggles and then to be able to act based on what God's Word says. It gives so much freedom to acknowledge and be aware of our sinful tendencies.
So true! It's about our hearts' thoughts, desires and emotions. When sin disorders those, the Bible alone has answers! Biblical counseling changed my life! It's simply the Bible applied to one's life.
I’m so very happy to see the stigma of mental health has great changed in just the last 20 years. I had some kind of mental breakdown just over 20 years ago & it was still extremely taboo in the Church & Christian community in general. Brains can malfunction chemically just like any organ can. It took me going to 5 different so called Christian psychologist & psychiatrist to finally find the one who knew how to help me. The story itself is insane. The psychologist led me to the right psychiatrist both Christian. I’ve had this doctor for over 20 years. I still see him every 6 months or more if needed. I do take medication I’ve had severe anxiety & depression as a child. When I got on the right medication those head to heart light bulbs immediately started popping. I went from “yes I know that” to “knowing it in a whole new way”. The 2 different knows in the Greek. I was a pastors kid & accepted Christ at 10 years old. I never doubted my salvation. I strongly believe I went through that so that I could understand others & help them. Not everyone needs medication, some only a short time. Putting teens on medication is scary. I can’t say if I would have benefited from medication then. I’m definitely thankful for the right medication now.
I think Dr Johnson's premise that "Christian therapy" being a practice of trying to mash together the wisdom of God and the wisdom of man is overly simplistic and misrepresents Christians who practice therapy (that is, licensed therapists and psychiatrists etc. who are Christians). As others in the comebts here have pointed out, would we call the study of neuro-surgery "the wisdom of man" and therefore avoid seeking treatment from a neurologist for migraines or seizures? God has given us an orderly world and minds to understand the patterns He has laid in it. Using that knowledge in conjunction with a solid grasp on biblical knowledge and truth is not trying to meld the wisdom of man and the wisdom of God.
I completely agree. Whether or not Dr. Johnson realizes it, his argument against Christian counseling is a total straw man. My current counselor is a devout Christian and keeps the gospel at the center of all our discussions. At the same time, he is a LPC and has extensively studied various mental health disorders and their contributing factors. He understands that most of our destructive ways of thinking and behaving have both spiritual and clinical components and that oftentimes those two things go hand in hand. The reason we suffer is ultimately because of sin, be it our own sin or sin committed against us. Basically every Christian will agree that we physically suffer and die because of the fall, and I think think it's perfectly reasonable to apply the same principle to mental health. While unbelievers don't properly understand sin and aren't operating within a Christian framework, because of common grace they can recognize on some level that humans are broken, and they can still make valid observations about the clinical factors that affect a person's mental wellbeing. Of course, without the spiritual component, I would say that secular counseling is lacking at best and in some cases even counterproductive, but that doesn't mean that we should completely discard everything they have to say. For instance, an unbeliever can accurately observe that childhood physical, sexual, and emotional abuse has a negative impact on a person that can last well into adulthood. They can also recognize that factors in the present, such as lack of exercise, poor diet, and hormonal disorders can have an adverse effect on a person's physical and mental wellbeing. I think it is wise and necesary for Christian counselors to incorporate this knowledge into their practice while simultaneously addressing issues of sin and unbelief. To exclusively focus on one or the other is simply irresponsible.
Agreed. Psychology is a science. Just like any science it is the study or observation of things to learn what is true. Studying how molecules work discovers the laws of physics and energy that God established in creation. Psychology simply does the same thing with human behavior and thought. While I agree that many are secularists and that the field has too often pathologized normal human experiences, this does not discount the scientific discoveries that can be used to help us come closer to who we were created to be. As a psychologist and a theologian, I consistently find that neurobiological research reveals biblical truths. The division people like Dr. Johnson create between mental wellness and spiritual wellness is unhelpful. There are many of us who base our therapeutic practices in neuroscience and scriptural truth. It doesn't need to be either/or. There are definite problems with the mental health field, but don't throw the baby out with the bath water!
You have become one of my favorite podcasts. Thank you for speaking out and having guests on your show that speak out on these topics. It has helped me in my journey as I have stopped taking SSRI's and going down natural routes for my daughter who is on ADHD meds
I've gone through the IBCD training which is the first part of the biblical counseling certification with our church. We completely agree that the Word of God brings healing through the Holy Spirits help. Where we disagree is that we believe the brain is not just a place we experience our spiritual wellbeing but also an organ that can get sick so medication and other types of therapy can help bring us to a place where we can listen to biblical counsel. It is not helpful to deny diagnoses and ignore brain health as if it doesn't affect how our brain functions. We also believe in recovery ministries and support groups based on the word of God where ACBC does not think these type of ministries are biblical.
AA is a good example of what sets Christian counseling and secular counseling apart. AA tells you, you need to rely on a higher power but then says that it can be anything like your cat or whatever. Biblical counseling is God centered. Yes people can benefit from secular counseling and not all Christian counselors are good. Seeing a counselor with similar world views and values is important.
AA and all the other secular counselors also insist that everyone declare that they're addicts and they'll always be addicts and that is a lie from hell. We should never speak that over or lives. If any man is in Christ, he is a new creation. Behold, old things pass away, and all things become new. Also, as a man thinketh, so is he. 🙏
@@DavidMccallister65 Amen!!! I'm a Pastoral (Biblical) Counselor and I am not a fan of 12 steps because of the identification as an addict. Keeps them in bondage rather than helping them with freedom available in Yeshua, who came to set the captives free.
Maybe there is another way to view it. Maybe Christians who become professional counselors can start from their biblical foundation (what it means to be human, who God is, how he desires us to live, what he always intended for us) and view all the scientific research (neuroscience, EMDR, poly vagal theory, even CBT) as ways that are proving even more how God created us and what he always intended for us. We can make anything God or put anything first. As a professional counselor I am able to be on the mission field serving Christians and non Christians. I pray for my clients and whenever I have an opportunity, share Jesus (the ultimate healer, savior, attachment figure). There is nothing and no one greater!
I am both a Christian and at the end of my training to become an MFT. I chose the path of MFT because it made sense to me, and I feel it allows me to better serve others as a Christian. I do not have to leave my beliefs out of my practice but have been trained to see how my beliefs inform my practice. While I agree with some of the information provided in this interview, I continually hear testimony of clients who are harmed by Biblical counseling. The pendulum of harm can swing into both secular and Biblical perspectives of counseling or therapy. There are many avenues of counseling or therapy and each approach works differently and has different purposes. The explanation of the differences is simplified by this individual. Do your homework and decide what is the best fit for you as an individual. If you think something is wrong with what you are being told by a counselor or therapist, speak up. We are here to serve others not have others agree with our beliefs.
I wish more people in the church would understand how dangerous the Enneagram is; I was introduced to it in 2014 in the church I attended. Didn't want anything to do with it. Now, a ministry I'm working with isn't convinced that its roots are in the occult. There's a lie that it's roots are in Christianity, which it so clearly isn't. Thank you Allie and Dr. Johnson for bringing this forward.
What if dangerous about it? I'm asking sincerely. It brought a great deal of healing to me. I suppose if one is not a Christian they could use it exclusively. It's just a tool.
Enneagram is rooted in the New Age, occult divination, witchcraft, and Islamic superstition. Enneagram is the new Christian yoga, yet another attempt to take that which is historically and foundational demonic and sanctify it by redefinition and clever semantics. In the words of Isaiah 5:20, “Woe to those who call evil good, and good evil; Who put darkness for light, and light for darkness; Who put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!” Research the founders: Oscar Ichazo, Claudio Naranjo, and George Gurdjieff - it’s not “just a tool,” it’s disguised as transcending to this state of full human potential by way of channeling demonic spirits
The one huge thing is that Christian counselors do not take insurance in some cases so you will be spending a lot of money. I really needed counseling when i was going through a divorce.
I am a Licensed Marriage and Family Therapist, who is a Christian, and takes insurance. If my clients are Christian and express that they want therapy from a Christian perspective, I absolutely, happily oblige.
You can try going to a regular (secular) mental health or therapy institution and see if there are Christians. I'm in the US Midwest and they are everywhere.
@@84rstarr I'm glad to hear that! I went through providers under my insurance and was out of luck. The self labeled Christian therapist center near me does not accept insurance.
I would rather pay for quality than go to a hospital that accepts insurances and the therapist is overworked. It has been described to me like this. The hospital is like Walmart and private practices are like a boutique.
Super good interview. I have been wondering if such a Biblical counselor still existed in our therapeutic world! Thank you for finding Dr. Johnson and for asking such a great questions.
I do not think that people who are severely depressed or suffering from severe anxiety are basing that simply on feelings. And there are lots of believers looking to Jesus for healing, but still have to face the reality of their mental health on a daily basis. Please be careful to not oversimplify some pretty horrible suffering that people face.
According to an interview with Dr. Rhenn Cherry, a Biblical Counselor who wrote his PhD dissertation on the Enneagram, approximately 139 doctoral-level mental health professionals, with an average of 26 years experience, participated in a peer reviewed study in 2015 which found the Enneagram placing 2nd to last place on the first round of testing and last on the 2nd round…out of 36 protocols. The Enneagram is not a valid scientific tool pertaining to Personality, even if marketed as such.
Yes, counseling should be renewing our mind to see things from God's perspective to love Him with all our heart, soul, mind, and strength and our neighbor as ourself. God designed us to be thinking-feeling-acting beings. Whatever we are feeling stems from what we are thinking and leads to how we act. Our thoughts result from what we truly believe. Any other order is disordered processing ❤️🙏
I am a biblical counselor certified with ACBC and I am so thankful for this podcast. Scripture really is sufficient to address everything we need as sinners and sufferers in a fallen world!
I am a Christian, and a School Counselor/Licensed Professional Counselor. I'm interested to learn more about these SEL programs he's making claims about.... Social-emotional learning is extremely important for me to teach students as many don't know how to acknowledge and Address they're feelings in an appropriate way. I have NEVER nor have I ever heard another mental health Professional teach that you should never feel sad, mad, anxious, etc. In fact, I make sure to state several times that a variety of emotions is normal and good. It's HOW we manage those emotions that we teach. We also teach students how to challenge negative thoughts. In my experience, it's been "church people" who down play those heavy/uncomfortable feelings because they interpret that as unbelief or doubt in God. I can't speak for what's going on across the country, but I can assure you, in my neck of the woods, we are very much teaching adaptive skills that are absolutely edifying to all.
I do want to say, as a parent of a child with autism, there is another side of coin to the social/emotional skills learning that I believe is needed. I definitely see where you are coming from as it being not good, but I think to throw all of it out would not be helpful to some. My child has had to be taught how to relate to other people by rote due to his autism - so, social and emotional skills. If we failed to do this with him, he would not be able to be a future adult who related to a spouse, friends, his kids, coworkers, and those who he could potentially reach for Christ, etc. However, I have the conviction that that has been my and my husband’s responsibility to shepherd his hear and teach him these skills in a gospel-centered way, not his teachers, and I think that’s what you were getting to the heart of. Really a thought-provoking segment - thanks for speaking into all of these very relevant topics!
This is the best episode ever!!!! I'm so glad I'm not the only one with this same opinion in regards to "Christian Counseling" as opposed to Biblical Counseling....I have seen so much eek it's way into the life of believers in the name of "Christian Counseling" that have pretty much singlehandedly derailed the faith of those Christians
Thank you for your discussing on the Enneagram. We have had heartbreaking estrangement in our family by a member who was very into the Enneagram. This family member has decided that it is better to just cancel relationships rather than try to approach reconciliation with biblical solutions. I never made this connection before your podcast. Thank you!!
I have been counselled by the secular therapists and by a Christian therapist and its night and day. I can’t tell you how many secular therapists I saw, but I saw one Christian counsellor and that was all I needed.
That’s exactly what it is. I’ve called it a “Christian’s astrology.” Of course, that’s an oxymoron, but saying it that way is kind of jarring and sparks a conversation with people who think it’s a biblical thing to practice. Unfortunately, there are many churches who use the enneagram in spiritual gift classes and Bible studies.
My thoughts exactly. There are real problems with sin, but there are also real problems with the brain. And they require different types of help. I think we need to encourage people to come to Jesus AND seek the type of help appropriate fod them, rather than denying mental illness is actually a physical problem.
Allie Beth, Thank you for conducting this interview. I would love to see an interview with Eric Johnson, author of Psychology and Christianity: Five Views, in an episode on the varieties of theoretical frameworks in Christian Counseling.
Speaking of mental illness could you address the issue of John MacArthur coming out against PTSD, OCD,ADHD two weeks ago I'm having a hard time with the PTSD the veterans
I have not heard yet with John MacArthur said but if he is against or doesn't believe in the diagnosis of PTSD or ADHD, he is ignorant. I have a friend who is a Vietnam veteran and work with people who are Vietnam vets and believe me, their PTSD is very real and extremely difficult to overcome. Obviously, Jesus can overcome anythingbut for those vets who had to shoot a child or a woman because they had a bomb strapped to their back, that's a lot to overcome and we should have great compassion and understanding toward them
I hear the argument against SEL. Many secular philosophies are woven into many SEL ideas in the school system today. On the other hand, I do feel like SEL was generalized a bit in this interview..a positive example of SEL is Mr. Rogers. He gave many insightful simple lessons for generations of kids. I would consider these "social-emotional" because it helped kids feel seen and learn more friendship, controlling anger, etc. There's also a huge case for having more Christians in education to create healthy social-emotional learning. But maybe SEL as a label has too much baggage! We should come up with a different one. Great interview and challenging ideas :)
Reading the article “Why Biblical Counseling is unbiblical” by Dr John Coe completely changed my mind about biblical counseling. If anyone if able to read it, I highly recommend
I think there is some value in knowing your personality type because it is tied to learning styles AND other peoples tendencies and how other people learn so that you can yourself be a better and more adept communicator AND ENCOURAGER.
I’m confused. I didn’t hear a clear distinction. If someone has Bipolar disorder or schizophrenia are you saying they shouldn’t go to a “secular” psychiatrist? Just pray it away with a biblical counselor?
It's not just about praying things " away". Learning to live by the truths and principles that Jesus Christ teaches, applying them to our lives and learning who He says we are.. following what is important and being willing to eliminate all things that are not good for us in our lives, minds, actions and daily walk in life.. along with prayer so that we may be strengthened in and by these truths and gaining ability to rise above all the things we are plagued with in life... that is a more accurate way to see God's role in mental health.
They spent so much time on tangential things that you leave without knowing much more about biblical counseling and what that entails for a typical meeting. 4:54 - 9:22 This might be the most helpful section said on this, alongside using Jesus as a standard for human normality later. But even this isn’t to say much more than “we’re Christian and believe God provides for us through the church”, which tells us little about biblical counseling discipleship, and may even require specific interpretations of scripture to support his case. Yes the DSM is heavily based on symptoms (Diagnostic), yes Freud has had a massive influence on psychology, and yes there are secular/leftist influences on mental health. Thats all good to note, but whats the alternative again? Christian counseling sounds like a better alternative if they dont throw the baby out with the bath water ie, recognizing beneficial practices and classifications while disregarding the other stuff that gets lumped in.
At the end of the day, our primary obligation as Christians is to obey an honor the God of the Bible. There is no part of creation that God is not sovereign over or that God does not understand in totality. Therefore, psychology is not “untouchable” and we should be able to dissect it, weigh it, measure it, and find it wanting if necessary. That being said, I fully believe that depression, anxiety, schizophrenia, PTSD, all exist. But I also understand, that they do not have to be life sentences. People can and have healed.
So much good stuff here. However I think telling someone who is depressed “be of good cheer for I have overcome the world” is NOT helpful. If anything it can make things worse if the person is like "I'm a Christian and I believe the Bible, why am I still struggling?" With any issue you need to get to the root cause. A skilled therapist can do that. Neuroscience can explain so much about how our minds work. This is how God designed us! But the Bible is not a science textbook.
You don’t need a therapist, you need Christ and yes we can go through spiritual depressions and very deep ones but the solution is in Christ not a therapist, we can suffer in Christ, we increase our praying life in suffering, we clean more to Christ in affliction, we plead with Christ without cease in tribulation and despair our hearts get stronger and we trust him more and love him more, we do NOT need a “therapist”
Is this the same Enneagram as in Scientology? I was shocked that my local Dominican Sisters (across the street from our local Catholic college), is offering Enneagram .... sessions? I spent over 20 years in the New Age and I do not trust this at all!
What about if you have bipolar disorder and have lack of serotonin and dopamine and you need medication. I am a devout Christian. And i Preach for Jesus and preach help through the Lord but i am a spokesperson for mental health as well. Jesus makes me sustain my pain. But he gave me a brain to seek medical help. It’s not easy and not a walk in the park. I loved the episode. But as God created everything he created psychologists as well. If u break ur leg, dont u need an orthopedic??? Its the same but mental disorder is not seen in the naked eye.so devotion and praying and going to mass and reading the bible is amazing healing for my spirit and soul, but we need psychiatric help with medication for our lack of hormones. ❤
@donaldjohnson-wn6ps The Holy Spirit only comes into a person who has believed in Jesus Christ as their saviour from the penalty of their sins. Without A close personal relationship with Jesus Christ of the Bible, there will be no Holy Spirit. But a person's status as a sinner without Born Again experience will send a person to hell. That requires sober thoughts.
@@missymurphy9996 Bless your heart. Jesus is the Living Word. The Bible has sufficient counsel for all our challenges. I memorize and meditate and that works wonders.
I think that seminary should have some sort of required psychology course(s) AND CRITICAL THINKING REQUIRED COURSE because so many pastors are very ill equipped to handle human abuse toward other people and the physical and the mind are often totally ignored for the pleasantries of simplifying the problem to be "spiritual" when in fact it has to do with the mindset of abusive people and the mindset of people on the receiving end of abuse and that abuse is often complex and layers and affects people physiologically and psychologically.
I hope you can provide a counter-view to this man such as Debra Fileta. She is a Christian counselor and her faith is woven throughout her teaching. God is in psychology, and He can use counseling to heal.
I've had a fantastic experience with an ACBC certified counselor. I'd done Christian counseling and it did help "treat the fruit and not the root". However I do not have a mental illness. I do think that MI is legitimate and some people do need medication. But I think it's far less than those who are prescribed medications. And psychiatrists do not require you to be in counseling. They just push pills.
I've needed counseling for many years but haven't for this very reason. Years ago, I received "Christian" counseling, and it was pathetic, not at all helpful. I need help navigating the rejection of my children, who have also turned my grandchildren against me. I just went to the ACBC website to search for a counselor. There are 6 within 25 miles of me, 5 of them all in one town in a huge metropolitan area. That is kinda strange?
I am so sorry for your loss. My friend is experiencing the same thing. Her 3 children turned against her several years ago, and also don't allow her to see her grandchildren. She is heart broken.
@@Switzer1234 Thank you! Yes, that is exactly what I need help with, living day to day for so many years with a shattered heart. I've prayed my heart out for many years, but I want to know if there is anything I can do that might open their eyes so they can truly see me for who I am.
@@gramajan4It’s valid to want to see your children and grandchildren, but you cannot make people see you the way you want to be seen. There’s what you do and what you say. There’s also what you’ve done in the past. Clearly they have a problem with it. So the question is have you invalidated their concerns? Have you deflected, minimized or avoided dealing with their concerns? Are you manipulating in order to get what you need? If you want a relationship, you have to change the variables on your end.
@@journeyoffaith02 Sometimes when we attempt to speak words of wisdom into another's life, someone we know nothing about, whose situation we know nothing about, the words are less than helpful. You might want to keep that in mind, dear one.
What a wonderful morning it was when I opened up RU-vid while I had my coffee to see my old Seminary professor’s face! What’s up Dr. J! This is a wonderful opportunity to talk about Biblical Counseling! 🙌
I almost broke up with my now husband over the differences in our Flag Pages (by Mark Gungor & the Laugh Your Way to a Better Marriage seminars). Thankfully I came to my senses and gave him a chance. Now we've been married for 13 years and i can see a lot more depth to his personality than what his Flag Page showed. Yes, the Flag Page was stunningly accurate, but he is more well rounded than what the pages say.
I typically watch on my laptop that isn't signed into my account, so I do not get commercials. Listening in on my phone and am surprised that there's commercials as well as Good Rancher and other sponsor commercials..........
hmm... I can definitely get behind the idea that the way we have come to a lot of the understanding of the enneagram as occult. For that reason alone, I have tried to distance myself from some of the people who use it. HOWEVER. Before I quit studying it, I came to a better understanding of me and my husband's natural bent as we both try to submit to correction. It has become a natural wiring in my brain for describing people's perspectives more usefully (reliably and with a high degree of validity). My tendency as an ennea 1 is to be closed off to other people's perspectives, which I realized was part of my natural tendencies. If I take that as license to refuse to sacrifice my selfishness, it becomes just another excuse to do what I want in life. BUT, I use it to identify the mechanics of where I can specifically offer right sacrifices before the Lord, ie- differentiating the specific sin in my heart and of those close to me. Now that I got that off my chest I am going to go against my gut and read these comments. But only for like 4 minutes cause I really have to get back to cleaning.
When I had just started in my old job, we had some (online) meeting, where we had to fill the enneagram. I didnt know much about it but somehow it didnt feel good. After we had to tell what our "personality" was, my boss (with whom I had never met in person, just talked few times in the phone), said that she thinks that my personality is not that, but more of one other "personality" of enneagram. That felt soooo strange! How come she said that? After all, she didnt know me! After all, I didnt stay in that job for long, not because of the enneagram but other problems.
I once had a job that made me take a personality test (not enneagram), and it was incredibly frustrating. They used the results against me and got angry every time my actions didn’t fit into the personality type they decided I had.
Respectfully, I absolutely disagree with most of this interview. It’s very one-sided and does not consider at all that there are serious chemical imbalances that contribute to things like anxiety or depression. As a woman and a mother, postpartum depression and anxiety is a chemical imbalance from the hormonal changes that occur. This has nothing to do with sin! I’m a labor and delivery nurse and I hope my patients know that it isn’t their fault if they suffer from mental health conditions. Taking medication and seeking help is not shameful whatsoever. Interview a woman next time. I’d love to see how they view this differently (or similar).
The number one m9st helpful thing that helps us draw close to the Lord is the acceptance that we will never be perfect and suffering comes. We will have emotions, such as be angry but do not sin. God gave us emotion but we hqve to give it to him and ask why am I having to suffer this? Is this for my growth and healing or is it the other? I went thru it and once I gave it to the Lord and accepted the suffering healing came and then growth. I get sad to see so many trying to manifest and more because it is based on self doing the work and usually people end up worse off beating themselves up because then you feel worthless or whatever feeling or thought comes. We are ALL imperfect this sid3 of heaven. Let go and let God help you accept the fact we are all broken. I promise you that once you genuinely surr3nder to God and let go he comes in strong qnd he will be your strength and begin guiding. It was a hard lesson for me to see all my imperfect behaviors. I always focused on others to stop hurting me but now i see we ALL do it and my compassion has grown!. I hope this helps someone. I have a harde4 time putting into words what is in my heart.. May the Lord be allowed in All of your lives fully..
Good discussion but I have to say there are not enough either Biblical or Christian counselors out there who know how to effectively deal with eating disorders especially anorexia. My daughter walked thru it and unfortunately the non Christian/non Biblical worldview her therapist holds has affected her but she’s in her 20s so I don’t really have a say. Please if anyone is thinking of getting trained in this area specifically, please do!!!!!
I'm with you. When your heart isn't working right, you go to a cardiologist. When your brain isn't working right, you go to a psychologist or psychiatrist or therapist. I realize some problems are really just spiritual. But some are physical problems with your brain.
We need to acknowledge that demons are still here and are attacking people’s bodies and minds. Jesus said believers would cast them out. Not everything is a devil but some extreme cases certainly are!
- evolutionary biology, and also involving the behavioral sciences; are now involving towards predispositional genetics ,and this is starting to branch ;and the dangers of this is as to marker genetics within populations towards sociological categories
- psychology/psychiatry, has become a so-called definition unto themselves :as to diagnosis/medication and that seems to be it / as has so becoming more pharmaceutically mandated
I hate when the detectives go on being so overly nice to these people even after they've confessed everything and they don't need anything else from them. Smh
@@rachelanderson5117 No, it means that what is born of the flesh is flesh, and what is born of the Spirit is Spirit! Jesus came to save us from our sins not merely our physical (or psychological) maladies!
You talk all about the traps of enneagram!! The light is that we all have the arcetypes within ourself and the poisens. But one more core. Yes it can create division if we use it wrong. Its a journey in enneagram of using it right, but first maybe we need to use it bad till we undersrand the traps. I think it was a good podcast but misses the godly things in enneagram and dont understand it intuitively in essence but super fiscial like all christians often see it.
I was at a Catholic retreat , and was introduced to enneagram thru Richard Rohr tapes. Thought is was neat and good, but now I have come to see it's new age false religion origins.
