"I used to be an atheist, but then my wife turned into christinanity and i had to make a choice between staying an atheist, or getting laid on a regular basis." is all i heard from the first speaker >.
So finely tuned to exist in one minuscule part of the universe which is like saying that you must give me my pension because I went to work for 1 femtosecond.
37:46 _"Imagine how she must have prayed everyday, how she must have beseeched heaven. Imagine for twenty four years and no, no answer at all, nothing! _*_Nothing!_* Goodness me what a moment. It's very satisfying to see a very unfiltered version of the anger he must feel towards religion.
@@LMFAORomania women are treated as property especially daughters. Look them up...all old testament stuff. Like...selling them into slavery, killing them whenever you want...ect. It's all there.
@@at6686 Could it be anger at those who presents the God delusion as something worthwhile to entertain? On what sadistic grounds you have to stand to pretend that what that women went through can be compensated in any way. It's not like she was asked for that bargain.
This is why Christopher is so missed. To have the balls to go in the ring with 4 theist plus 1 extra in guise of a moderator. To have the mental courage to do so. It’s says something about a person. And mind you , it looks easy for the atheistic side cause Christopher makes it look easy. You will be missed sir.
Nah, they brought knives to a gun fight. Wish someone would edit out all this skydaddy crap. But then again this piece will lose its masterful illustration of how man invented god.
Hitchens has the patience of Job, lol. Thank you sir for helping me on my journey of letting go of catholicism and instead embracing reality more authentically, and in fact more lovingly.
What’s really scary and alarming is how one can’t see how Hitchens bitch slapped each opponent with pure reason and logic ... to understand how he did it you simply have to say to yourself “ can a spider man comic book actually prove the existence of spider man?” ... if you can’t understand this analogy then you’ve got a bigger problem than you think .. all religion and god(s) like comic books and super hero’s - are man made.
From William Lane Craig First of all I think that god is the best explanation for why anything exists rather than nothing ……fumbling with babble….... and it seems to me that an argument along these lines is valid and cogent (Here’s the actual point) Whatever exists has an explanation of its existence, either in the necessity of its own nature or else in an external cause , if the universe has an explanation of its existence then that explanation is god and the universe obviously exists from that it follows that if the universe has an explanation of its existence then god exists , and since that first premise requires that I think that this is a good argument for gods existence , that one could defend in more detail. (Possibly more detail is required) (I am quite sure that I transcribed this accurately, I did leave out some uhms) I’m going to try to summarise this in good faith Actually I’ve just read it again and it doesn’t need summarising as it was quite short , it may have just seemed longer due to the mental gymnastics required to take the massive leap that he did So I will rephrase If something exists it has an explanation The only explanation for the existence of the universe is god And the universe obviously exists Therefore god exists It seems like I am twisting his words , his words were very twisted to begin with. (Reread/relisten to what he said , here is the massive leap that he made {if the universe has an explanation of its existence then that explanation is god} I must stress again , see the curly brackets, he actually said that.) If he didn’t speak so fast and the audience was less deferential and less polite he may have been laughed off stage for that It would be a compliment to call that argument sophistry Amazing that he claimed at the end that Christopher didn’t address the arguments and advised him to be better prepared
That statement is not true, not constructive and is in fact de-constructive. I'm not gonna argue about the speakers or the subject we probably agree on most things, but I don't agree on your attitude towards the 'other side in fact i vehemently disagree with any gratous demeaning comment against theists. Why? You are not doing any good to the furthering of atheism and more generally rational critical thinking. Imagine being a theist reading that. And imagine you actually also made real pertinant points that had not been answered. I can guarantee 99.99% of people will instantly dismiss all of your comment because it was felt as an unjustified (or plain) attack. It's dumb it's unrelated but people take critism of their beliefs as critisism of them and more so the stronger held. You are basically attacking the most fundamental central pillar of a belief and that is equivalent to you giving them a get out of jail card. You give them an espace route, oh that bastard is just a godless immoral atheist look at how he is full of hate on our poor religion, people hate christians so much we are constantly attacked- in the meantime not even having to dismiss your actual points, why give any time to the raving comments of a demonised adversary? I understand where the sentiment comes from believe me, and i ve been far more brutal in many conversations with thiests. Not proud nor ashamed i'd be gzntler on some but not everyone deserveq your good will, and sometimes you just get angry no big deal, the difference is between attacking a person which is perfectly fine if merited, and attacking an ideology solely by mocking, which is actually helping said ideology by protecting it from critisism.
Again i understand and i m not saying you should never do it just to be clear. Personally i find that it is sometimes the right thing to do in my moral code (utilitarian in moral philosophy terms) is attacking islam without any reason, not muslims but just bashing the religion a bit with true harsh arguments. Because i feel theu are wining the war against free speach and trying to ban critism, i will not let that happen
@@alexisjuillard4816 wow what a loser you are. You just typed an essay to yourself because trust me, no one gives a flying fluck what your opinion is. You must be really lonely to want to type for 10 minutes to yourself
@@kellygipson8354 you edited your comment that was 1 sentence long, barely. I’d advise you not to give your unsolicited opinion. Especially if it consists of a single sentence that you can’t get right the first time
I went to a Conservative Christian Camp somewhere in southern Kansas back in June of 1993 when I was 12 years old. We had a counselor who was speaking to us children and teenagers who were 11-14 years old. This man in his 20s looked at every last one of us and said now you know we all to deserve to burn in hell for eternity and if it wasnt for Jesus we all would be. My heart I thought was going to jump right out of my throat and I was so enraged. My blood was boiling, my body shook violently, and I wanted to walk right up to that guy and kick him right in the balls. I dont see how anyone can live with themself or look someone in the face and say something so hideouly wickedly immoral to children, teenagers, or anyone for that matter. Oh, they would say were just teaching them that because it is only the truth. There is not even one shred of credible evidence to back up that claim. Thank You Christopher, you will be missed.
Maybe after your counselor said all those stupid remarks about how you are doomed to hell---he later said privately to each kid you can be redeemed if you make me happy as he put his hands in private places.
Mordecai Ruckman are you joking or are you just stupid? He didn’t want to kick the guy in the balls for not having evidence. He wanted to kick the guy in the balls for telling 11 - 14 year olds that that they would and do deserve to suffer for eternity except for the salvation of Jesus, for which there is no evidence.
@@dentonfender8872 Nowadays with less people in church there’s child predators elsewhere. child indoctrination is like a mental molestation of young minds though.
The desire for structure and purpose is so overwhelming for these theists that it is disturbing. What could be more narcissistic and arrogant than thinking one is a member of a chosen class of people, and that one knows the will of God? They are so afraid of freedom and liberty. So afraid to make a choice based on reason and logic. So afraid to live in a World without a totalitarian Father.
That makes absolutely no sense what you just said. “Based on reason and logic”? Where do you get off of telling someone what to do or to even call something logic when we’re just matter acting on time and space. That means there is no meaning or purpose or even thinking for that matter that should matter at all. We’re just stardust colliding with each other. Even atheist make me laugh because there logic is so flawed. A true atheist if one didn’t really believe in God wouldn’t be here commenting on RU-vid videos because there is not sense in actually commenting if where just time and space acting on matter. Even your thinking pattern of composing a sentence is illogical how can we show you’re right, how can we prove that logic even exist if we just evolved into what we are? Whose to say that is even true? Atheist sound like the far left who say men can be women and women can be men. It’s all ludicrous when you speak because there is not such thing as objective truth in an atheist world view. So why bother with literally anything. Why care about evil and good if there is no objective truth. And if we developed this objective truth how do we even know it’s right. I swear atheist stand on such High ground thinking they are superior in intellect when you’re own intellect you brag about isn’t even founded on nothing, its wrong or right but how would we know?
@@esdrassalgado8850 dude, the American Santa Claus isn't real. He's not a fat old white guy with a white beard and bald head. He never had a wife. There's no Easter bunny. There are no fairies. There is no God, gods, goddesses hanging around in the sky behind the clouds. Behind the clouds is outer space. There is nothing out there but the cosmos, and no, there are no spiritual realms out there. Stop fantasizing.
@@we8608 you’re the one who believes in fairytales thinking things can just pop into existence out of nothing. Let me guess you believe genies in lamps are real too huh? You’re the type of kid who thought money grew on trees growing up, Probably hecka privileged too. Pull your head out the clouds fam and think with your brain. Nothing has ever and will ever just pop into existence, especially something as complicated as a universe let alone life. People like you need to stop living in Lala land and come back down to reality.
@@esdrassalgado8850 your entire diatribe is pointless drivel. You not only lack any concept of logic, toy also have no concept of life. Do you need a pathetic sky dictator to have meaning in your life? I certainly don't. My life is full of meaning, no mind numbing, idiotic superstition required. Do some research on logic and reasoning before you attempt to speak to it, you've only shown how ignorant you are. And you're 100% correct, i, like many atheists do hold myself on higher ground intellectually. You cannot have true intelligence and believe any religious garbage at the same time
He said once You have to have your heart on fire but your head on ice I might’ve got those the wrong way around He really does believe that religion poisons everything Case and point the men on stage with him , it’s hard to say whether or not they are intelligent when they are so thoroughly indoctrinated, but imagine if they had never heard the good word of the lord , they would probably still have their morals and would probably spend their time more productively do more good and live more fulfilling lives Hence religion poisons everything It has probably been said before, but it is my personal belief that organised religion is the work of the devil
Angry alcoholic who thought the war in Iraq was a roaring success till his dying day lest he admit to being wrong about something. In the words of his own brother, " Man is not great" Peter Hitchens.
@@XYisnotXX He objectively wasn't an alcoholic, his rationale for supporting the war in iraq was sound given his principles. and why would you listen to a word his brainwashed christian conservative brother has to say?
@@andrewz4105 The war in Iraq was an oil grab nothing more, the dogs in the street knew there were no naughty weapons of mass destruction. He was obliterated in debate by his own brother over the war and made to look like a fool! His alcoholism contributed greatly to his early demise along with his heavy smoking. Why should I listen to his superiors? Well unlike him there don't believe that magic interactions between random magic unguided chemicals acting apon more magic random unguided chemicals inside of magic matter (in this case his brain matter) creating such a miraculous effect as proper logical inference and truth for which there is absolutely no evidence of any description whatsoever. " Man is not great " Peter Hitchens.
This debate should be titled 4 retards vs. a real intellectual. It is shameful that in the 21st century people still believe this nonsense, and the 4 frauds and con men on stage are shameful ignoramuses whose whole purpose is to deliberately dupe and mislead indoctrinated and credulous people who have never been exposed to anything other than a dusty old 3,000 year old book that they have been told from the day they were born was the only thing they needed to know, and hitchens, one of the great truth bearers on this subject, went too soon.
I can't tell you how nice it is for once to scroll through the "top comments" and see zero whiny and personally offended pissed off Christians acting exactly like someone their God wouldn't like.
I listened more than once to understand what each was saying and found that Hitchens is mostly a lot of talk without much substance to the arguments that the other speakers brought up. I notice on this post that most all posts are positive about Christopher. 😊
@@enriquefranco6330 on the contrary, I find very little substance in a deity who ignores his chosen creation for millennia, and then reveals itself only to a select few in a select location instead of to the entire world, without corroborative accounts in history and archeology. This is one of the most compelling arguments against monotheism I’ve ever heard, and I remember first hearing it from Christopher Hitchens. As for its rebuttal presented here, I would respond that there are far more practical written works for our present times than the Bible. The US Constitution comes to mind as one example.
“Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence comes evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?" _Epicurus_
"We have to be brothers, one with another", Hitchens "Why?", Douglas "We have to fight this off", Hitchens "Why?", Douglas "For our own survival. For our children's sake", Hitchens
The most interesting part of this debate was the part regarding the cosmological constants and the "fine tuning" of the universe and so on. This is an argument that falls on its own unreasonableness. The vast majority of the universe is fiercely inhospitable to life, or at least carbon-based life, due to radiation, temperature, gravity, and so forth, i.e. not fine-tuned by any means. And it is mind-boggling in the first place that people are surprised to find themselves on a planet that allows for life. Nobody will ever find themselves asking that question on a planet that does *not* allow for life. It is a self-fulfilling, circular, recursive argument which, of course, is and always will be the very trademark of unjustified and wishful thinking, more commonly known as religion.
Who else fast forward to hear only the great Christopher Hitchens rhetoric? Christopher's patience dealing with these imbecilic deluded morons is amazing..May his mellifluous voice continue to enlighten the thinking man for thousands of years! Oh Yes!!
hackum1 Thank "God", Indeed! I can only envision Christopher rolling his eyes at such a statement. We, Christopher and I, both perceive the graciousness of the sentiment, as well as the irony.
There are times when you come across a person who was ahead of their time, this man's intellect was wasted on these people I believe his words if said today could change the world.
It wasn't at all 'brave' for Hitchens to attend this discussion. It was an opportunity for Hitch to educate, humiliate and honor them with his presence!!! I swear Craig is such a douchebag with all his babble. 🤣🤣 No real challenge for Hitch, he out wits, and shines everytime! I've yet to meet his genius equal. The greatest orator, wordsmith, and comedic delivery, I've ever witnessed. I will forever listen to him, miss him, and so grateful for the best professor I've ever had! Cheers to the late great Hitch!!!🍻🥂
10000% agree. I've watched this and other Hitchens debates multiple times. Read his books multiple times. He was a master that truly left this earth too soon. I wish more idiots, I mean religious people would hear him and break the disgusting cycle of hate, fear, self loathing, and violence caused by their beliefs in a celestial boogeyman
Never thought I would hear this from a Christian at 31:52: “Atheism is for the strong and intelligent. Christianity is for those that are not strong and not intelligent.” Yep. Nailed it. Think about this for a second…Hitchens wasn’t born with all that knowledge…he gained it by being a voracious reader…and he was doing that while these 4 weak and dumb men were in church listening to a revered with a high school education give the same ridiculous sermons. One chose knowledge, the others chose ignorance. So, it’s not that Christians are weak and unintelligent, it’s that they CHOOSE to be weak and unintelligent.
This discussion is really hilarious, comical! I am not sure how Mr. Hitchens could keep his composure and not roll on the floor laughing. These guys in suits making these jokes with a straight face is really entertaining. They actually belive what they are saying :)
The dude at the podium started this off with a near minute long commercial for their magazine subscriptions. That informed me of the caliber of the "thought leaders" on that stage sitting with Christopher.
When Sam Harris accused Christians of playing tennis without the net, this is what he was talking about. On the one hand they say the father raped his daughter in a dungeon because God gave him free will and it would be a slippery slope to intervene. Then later when Christopher said he was hardwired to love his daughter they said it's because God hardwired/programmed him that way. It's hard to think on your feet when it's 1 vs 5 but I wish he would have pointed out that if God hardwired him to love his daughter then he also hard wired the man to rape and torture his daughter.
No proof of supernatural power, thousands of gods created by humans in our short time on this planet, a panel of faith believers, and 1 genius. We miss you Christopher.
He's lost you because what he's saying is the most ill-formed logical presentation In the world. No unbiased philosopher or scientist would take it seriously. "The universe must have had a cause therefore God loves us" it's ridiculous. I'm not sure he doesn't have learning difficulties. The problem isn't your ability to follow his arguments, the problem is his inability to make an argument that logically follows.
The preacher, if you didn’t know, meant that as an epistemic challenge. You’re straw manning him here for a giggle. Which I gotta say doesn’t live up to the standard Hitchens set in this and all his other debates.
It genuinely worries me when I hear grown men, educated and civilized men like those on the panel, (apart from Hitchens) speak like mad cultists. It's totally alien to me to hear people talking that way. If you put any of those guys on a street corner in a ragged robe, with long greasy hair, saying exactly the same words you'd cross the road to avoid them, or tell a policeman. They have no answer to Hitchens' arguments which clearly frustrates him because instead they offer nonsense. They are bad faith interlocutors.
Craig doesn't need any help with that. It happens as soon as he opens his mouth. "If it's even POSSIBLE that there is a universe where Santa Claus exists, it therefore proves that Santa Claus exists!" Better make sure I'm on the nice list!!!
Now I've seen many Hitchens's debates and I think it's impossible to beat him in a discussion. Never seen it happen and can't imagine what it would look like.
From about 35 minutes in until Hitchens stops speaking proves to me that he was a masterful rhetorician. Sometimes I imagine his monologues in another accent and, though they lose a little something, they are still powerful and moving. Fuck cancer.
Not going to count the moderator? The dude kept injecting his beliefs in so often I was starting to think he was one of the speakers instead of the moderator.
There's something I've never understood about how Christopher responded to the moral question, why doesn't he just concede that morality is subjective and part of an evolutionary process. It wouldn't put him on the back foot because surely the point is that modern imperfect humanism is inherently still better than the imaginary objectivity of bronze age religious doctrine, they always seem to work him into a corner with that one.
+Maestro Gee yeah I've wondered something similar, I feel like you could say even less than "subjective part of an evolutionary process". They act like it's a cornering question, but knowing where our morality comes from doesn't seem like an important question.
contactkeithstack exactly, they present it as if it's an argument which somehow damages an atheistic world view but even if it was conceded that our morality is ultimately without any foundation it would prove nothing about the existence or non-existence of a God.
"The atheist has no basis for objecting to any kind of behaviour thoughout history." I have no basis? I don't want to be assaulted. I don't want to be murdered. I don't want to be oppressed. I recognize such things as unpleasant for myself. I have empathy, and I can easily extrapolate that what I find to be intolerable is also intolerable for others, and so I will not take any of those actions and I will condemn them when I see them.
Wow. Craig: "...if the universe has an explanation for its existence then god exists...". Or "... if the existence of god is even possible then it follows that god exists...". This guy just spews stupid at speed and then presumes his points have value.
49:40 The christian side already assumes, that SOMEONE must have hardwired human beings. Now, how did they already get to asking "who", instead of what or how? That already seems like an unreasonable jump in logic! This is just one of many unbased religious claims in this discussion.
As for the 'tithing is a moral act which an atheist doesn't do.' Last I checked atheists can, and do, give plenty to charities. That is absolutely in the same vein as tithing - and is, in fact, more moral than tithing is, as the money given to charity is used for charitable ends, and not a tax-exempt source of income to an organization.
Here's my take on that guy that keeps talking about relationship: God: I love you. Me: Oh. Thanks. But...I don't. God: I want a relationship with you Me: Thanks, I'm flattered, but I not interested. God: Then BURN IN HELL!!!! Yeah, he loves me.
love how the faithful NEVER mention this hitch-craig meeting. without the strict debate format to hide behind, just another christian, and with all the depth and glitter of a worn dime.
All these years later,knowing what we know now, every time Christopher coughs, my stomach clenches. How I wish this man was here today. He is so needed.
So often Christopher must be resisting the urge to say what he said to fox news: "You strike me as somebody who hasn't read the arguments against your position".
