Today on what it’s like engine episode Wednesday taking a closer look at the 2.2L and 2.5L engines which were used on the Chrysler K platform.. Enjoy This episode =) 
Beginning in 1988 Turbo II (and in 1990, T3) engines received a longer-branch tuned intake-manifold that is flat on top and ribbed. From '86 to '88 the 2.5L engine used what was called the 'tall block,' basically a 2.2 block with a 1" higher deck so the pistons wouldn't pop out the top. Starting in 1989 all 2.2 and 2.5 liter engines, including the Maserati-built 2.2 used in the Chrysler TC by Maserati and the longitudinal engine in the Dakota, used the same engine block. The 2.5L engine used shorter-pistons to keep its longer-stroke within the height of the block. The 1989 and newer 'common block' is the most durable. For the 1990 model year, Chrysler added twin balance shafts to its 2.2L turbo engines; they had previously only been used on the 2.5L. 1988 was the last year of the 2.2L Turbo I engine (it became the 2.5L Turbo I engine in 1989) For 1991 the 2.5 turbo I had an increased torque peak (210 from 180) due to sequential fuel injection and better ignition timing control and more low-speed boost. No hardware changes were made. 1984-88 2.2L Turbo I engine 146hp@5200rpm 170tq@3600rpm (150hp & 180tq on premium gas) 1988-89 2.2L Turbo II engine 174hp@5200rpm 200tq@2400rpm, charge-cooler 1990 2.2L Turbo IV engine 174hp@5200rpm 210tq@3200rpm, variable-vane (VNT) turbo, SMPI, 2.2L finally got twin balance-shafts inside the oil-pan, (Shelby CSX - 500 in 1989, Chrysler LeBaron coupe and convertible, and Dodge Daytona Shelby & C/S Competition Package) 1991-92 2.2L Turbo III engine 224hp@6000rpm 218tq@2800rpm, cross-flow 16V-head, balance-shafts, NOTE: 252 Dodge Daytona IROC R/Ts were sold as 1993 MY cars 1989-90 2.2L Maserati engine 200hp@5500rpm 220tq@3400rpm, cross-flow 16V Maserati-head, fully counterweighted 52lb forged crankshaft In 1991 Chrysler improved the 2.5 Turbo, adding torque through more low-speed boost, and changes to fuel and timing control, called the 'high torque' version. 1989-1990 2.5L Turbo 150hp@4800rpm 180tq@2000rpm 1991-1992 2.5L Turbo 152hp@4800rpm 210tq@2400rpm
I fell in love with the K cars in 1981 but did not buy a new one. In 1993 I needed to purchase a used car and chose a nice 1984 Dodge Aries 4-door. It had 33,000 miles on it and I couldn't pass it up. It was a 2.2, with auto, PS, PB, AC and AM radio. ONE OF MY ALL-TIME FAVORITE CARS. During my 3 years of ownership, it NEVER failed me! Always started. I did need a head gasket replacement and a set of tires and new front pads. I loved the styling, passenger and trunk space, visibility, fuel economy and reliability. Two things I do remember. 1) The door hinges needed white lithium sprayed on them a couple of times a year, otherwise they would bind and groan. 2) When I sold the car in 1996 to my wife's cousin I made sure it was as close to perfect as possible. Upon inspection, I discovered my now 12 year old Aries still had its original, from the factory battery. A really stellar vehicle that exceeded all my expectations. WYR 1) Scamp. Loved that little truck. WYE 2) 1991 Dodge Spirit.
I have an 83 dodge Aries wagon in mint condition! 34k Original miles. No issues but normal maintenance. Bought it for $500.00 2.2L 135ci very easy to work on and part availability is readily available!
Because I worked for a Chrysler, Plymouth, Dodge dealer during the time these engines were in production my family owned 5 cars powered by them. Starting with a 1984 Plymouth Turismo with a Carbureted 2.2, then a 1985 Dodge 600 with a 2.2 EFI, a 1989 Plymouth Sundance 2.2 EFI. (my daughters car) a 1989 Plymouth Acclaim LE with a 2.5 Turbo, talk about a sleeper, The last was my daughters 1994 Plymouth Sundance with a 2.2. All were automatic transmissions except the 84 Turismo, that was a 5 speed manual. The only issue I ever had with any of them was head gaskets on the 600 and Acclaim. The Turismo, 600 and Acclaim were all purchased new, the two Sundance's were used.
Thank you so much for sharing your experience I greatly appreciate it =) Which one was your favorite and what kinda of gas mileage did you get In ways this was like model A 2.0 different body styles on chassis and 2 power plant options it’s interesting if you think about it
The Turismo got 41 MPG on the highway. The others gas milage was in the high 20 to low 30s. The 1989 Acclaim was our favorite. That 2.5 Turbo ran strong. The engine produced the maximum torque at 3500 RPM. and that's where the torque converter stall speed was. That also had the turbo up steam from the throttle body unlike the previous years where the turbo was down stream from the throttle body. There was no turbo lag in that car. from a dead stop all you had to do is punch it the tac would jump to 3500 and the front tires would break loose, no brake torquing or anything just stand on it! @@What.its.like.
In 1984 I rented a Plymouth K car and I was pleasantly impressed with the fuel economy of 32 mpg, with the quiet and comfortable ride and with the power. The car was rattle free , had a large front bench seat that was like a comfortable living room sofa. Compared to midsize competitors, the car definitely kept up or surpassed them. Some anti-Chrysler folks like to label K cars as being pieces of junk, being rust buckets and shoddily built; however, ALL American and might I say, Japanese cars of the period had build quality and rust issues too. My 79 Datsun 310 had a myriad of issues ranging from blown head gaskets (twice!) to an defective alternator, it pinged on premium, blew an air conditioner hose, had a door lock fall out, the speedometer died, and large areas of rust bubbling under the paint! And a 1984 Ford Fairmont that I also drove that was less than a year old also had rust issues with a problem of the shifter slipping into reverse while going 40 mph! And a brand-new Corolla I bought in 85 came with a missing rear door lock, warped front brakes, a missing cruise control, overheating issues, constant pinging on premium, assembly glue blobs on a front seat, and a violent vibration coming from the gas pedal when the car went over 60 mph.
Hal Sperlich was fired from Ford in 1978 and went to Chrysler, and when Iacocca was fired in 1979 it was Sperlich that then brought him over to Chrysler. A small van built from a small car platform was already done at Ford in the early 1960's when the Econoline/Falcon Club Wagon was built from the Falcon platform. They were going to apply this concept to FWD. The 2.2L/2.5L was started from what Chrysler learned by reverse engineering Volkswagen 1.7L engines that Chrysler bought for the Omni/Horizon cars.
The first thing I thought when I saw the thumbnail was, "This engine looks like a VW 827 a lot!". Apparently, it's a copycat with some improvements, like roller rocker arms instead of bucket tappets. A Chrysler engine inspired by an Audi engine, which was originally developed by Mercedes, is truly an odd history.
Thank you so much for sharing that insight and added information greatly appreciate it I didn’t tell the whole story I left bits and pieces out because I would love to come back and do a story on the Chrysler K platform when we eventually do a Chrysler K car..
Jeffbranch8072 brings up an important piece of history. When Chrysler brought the Euro designed Omni / Horizon to the US market, they did not have a engine that would satisfy EPA regs, so they struck a deal with VW to purchase 1.7L (aka 827) engines already compliant with US regs. As rodrigogomes7546 points out, the 2.2L Chrysler engine launched in 1981 was a VERY sincere "imitation" of the VW engine. I bought a new Lancer ES Turbo 5-spd in 1986. It was fairly quick for its time... slightly faster than a coworker's Fiero GT V6 in an unplanned traffic light drag race. It handled well on smooth roads, but the ride was harsh, and the build quality was mediocre at best. Sold it before anything expensive broke.
@@billyjoejimbob56 , and VW didn't have an automatic transmission for the Rabbits in the U.S. market, so VW supplied the engines and Chrysler supplied the auto transmissions, and this combo was shared by the Omni/Horizon and VW Rabbit. There have been numerous tie-ins between VW and Chrysler over the decades.
I had a 1981 Plymouth Reliant K Wagon. My sister bought it from me after she blew up her 86' Dodge Daytona Shelby Z. It suffered a long drive without a oil cap and locked up outside of Pittsburgh I was told. Would have been easy to swap another engine into it as there were literally millions of those everywhere.
Had two: An 82 Reliant wagon with a normally aspirated 2.2, and an 86 Lebaron convertible with the 2.2 turbo. Both were comfortable and very reliable. I drove the Lebaron until a deer took it out with 175,000 miles. It was trouble free and still ran like a top.
My 70 year old dad bought a new turbo caravan in the mid 80s or so.. As anemic as the detuned 80 cars were, This van was a force to be reckoned with. the turbo spun full time and vanes inside it moved and bit the air suddenly , thus no lag. The rear of the van just squatted and it took off like a rocket with an awesome whoosh noise. great ride.
I graduated high school in 86 and remember the K cars all over Seattle. When I joined the USAF in 90, they used them for SP vehicles and staff cars. I drove a friend's 81 Reliant with a 2.2/4spd manual. Not a bad car, but the shift linkage was horrid. He never had an issue with it, and he (and I) were not kind to that car.
Me and my Brother were just talking about that this car is very mediocre but Lee Iacocca believed it was great and he was able to convince other people to believe the same thing.. it’s kind of like Chrysler‘s version of the Ford model a done in the 80s..
The K based cars got better during the last 5 years. The later 2.2/2.5 use a so-called common block that was produced in Mexico. Other than the turbo version, the horsepower of the 2.2 declined a bit in favor of torque.
I had a 1981 Plymouth TC3 and a 1986 Chrysler Lazer with the 2.2 engines - non-Turbo. The engines were very good but the rest of the cars had quality issues and other flaws. Today many cars have turbos but it was Chrysler that was the first carmaker in the USA to make and use them in high volume cars. I forgot there were so many variants, especially with the turbo.
The K engine is so close in design to the Volkswagen EA827 design that one has to wonder if they bought the design from the German manufacturer. They did not, and you can tell that it isn't an EA827 due to the massive difference in bore spacing. The EA827 has 88 mm bore spacing while the K has 96 mm spacing, as per the video. In fact, the VW design is so compact that tuners in Europe are actually installing cylinder heads from the Suzuki Hayabusa motorcycle. And the VW cannot go past 2.1 liters, it is physically too small. This put VW in a quandary, as they realized that they needed a 2.5 liter engine but it would be hugely expensive to develop one, so instead they installed an extra cylinder to produce the Audi 5 cylinder engine and could reach that size while using the same equipment to produce the engine. It would have seemed logical to buy engines from Chrysler, but apparently VW wasn't enamored with the K engine's quality and went the other route. Great video!
@@What.its.like. she liked it a lot, but I think her favorite may have been her Pontiac 6000. She has had a lot of cool cars...2 hornets, Cordoba, Lincoln coupe, Ford galaxy to name a few!
2:00 I'll bet Iacocca was the sacrificial lamb to get the axe for the Pinto debacle. The car itself was later proven to be perfectly safe (only 27 fire deaths in 2 million cars), but the bad press had taken its toll and someone had to go.
Well done episode K engines great educational info,, worth the work. First choice I take the Ram commercial panel minivan with the rare manual transmission seen a gold manual one in person this guy loved it, the second 92 Dodge Daytona IROC RT.
Awesome write in choices glad you dig this video I can’t believe it took this long does it take to put it together I was like oh 2 engines piece of cake =) I can’t believe that they had a 224 hp version when doing research for this episode Check this link out Scroll down to second picture it should be Weber side draft carburetors evidently you can get a lot of power out of this thing for relatively inexpensive www.motortrend.com/features/2-2-dodge-august-1986-982-1362-29-1/?galleryimageid=a33d7de5-2f0d-4a39-8eed-326dbc012099
@@What.its.like. That's some awesome upgrades with the carbs and exhaust, almost like doing a slant 6 or Chevy 6/Pontiac OHC 6 with 4 barrel & custom intake and exhaust headers, a lot of hp from a small engine.
84 Voyager 82 Dodge iRoc There is absolutely no doubt that Lee iacocca was an automotive genius. And when they write the history of the Ford motor company the letting go of Lee iacocca will go down in Ford's history as the worst mistake ever committed by FoMoCo. They could have had the minivan and they didn't have the foresight to realize what it would become. How could they not know? Especially considering what Lee iacocca did with the Mustang. For a couple of years I owned a Plymouth Voyager minivan it naturally had the standard class of four banger engines that all of those cars used. It wasn't a speed demon but it was a solid reliable vehicle that got me from point A to Point B. No major issues you turn the key on jumped in and drove it. I did one time have an intermittent problem where after it warmed up it would just not start took the dealer a while to figure it out but they eventually got it. It turned out to be some small part in the distributor that was causing it. Early on when the dealer couldn't figure out what was wrong with it because it would never act up while they had it there I told the dealer I said hey I don't care if you have to keep this thing at your dealership for months but it's going to do it eventually as it does it to me regularly. The dealer called me a few days later and said I've got good news and bad news I said okay lay it on me. He said I let our parts runner use your vehicle to deliver our parts and yes it did quit running and we were able to get a code reader on it right away and look for codes and it gave him a code due something in the ignition system. That's how they nailed it down to the distributor. I said what's the bad news? He said my parts runner got stranded about 20 miles away LOL. They ended up putting a remanufactured distributor in it and I never had another problem with it as long as I owned it. It was a very reliable vehicle. In fact I ended up trading it in on a new 1998 Voyager with the V6. The redesigned one. That ended up also being a very reliable vehicle. As far as bad decisions and lack of foresight the only other thing I can think of that is as bad as the mistake Ford made with iacocca was blackberry not realizing what the iPhone was going to become. In fact I'd venture to say that blackberry was actually worse because they are no longer around yet Ford is. Not only did the k car platform contribute to the saving of Chrysler. The introduction of the LeBaron convertible on the K-Car platform cause a rebirth for drop tops. The design of the LeBaron lent itself perfectly to a convertible model. It was one sharp looking automobile.
Had an 85 Plymouth Horizon with the 2.2 liter engine (carburetor). While the engine itself didn't give me too much trouble, it was bolted to a 5-speed manual transmission that self-destructed at 70K miles. Additionally, the CV joints gave way at 60k miles, the air conditioner was already gone at 45K, the gas gauge in the instrument panel had to be replaced at 60K, and the electrical system completely fried at just over 100K, when I got rid of it. It was a total rolling repair bill and the build quality was just plain shoddy! I learned car repair skills with that car.
If you’re old enough you might remember all of the Chrysler commercials with Lee Iacocca. He truly did resuscitate Chrysler/Plymouth/Dodge with his ideas and persona. Iacocca was on TV commercials all day and night. He wasn’t simply successful he WAS success. Everything he touched was a success. Chrysler/Plymouth/Dodge minivans were everywhere. That must have burned Henry Ford’s ass.
The whole single platform concept may have seemed brilliant initially. But by the mid-late 80s, it became apparent that this is not the way to build cars. Especially if you base your whole lineup on a rather lackluster econobox platform. Simply put, by the mid-late 80s, Chrysler became known for mediocrity more than anything else. This was especially true when compared to Japanese offerings and innovative domestics such as the Ford Taurus. So much did the single platform concept tarnish Chrysler that it is said that they created the Dodge Viper to overcome their dowdy K-car image. Notice that nobody has tried to base their lineup on a single platform since. This, of course, includes Chrysler.
Hi Jay! Thanks for another interesting engine episode! It is truly amazing how many cars used different iterations of those engines. Too bad Henry II had a thing against Lee! FORD could have been known forever more for introducing the modern minivan!! Quite a while ago, when I worked for the County, we got a new car to run errands in. We had had this COOL 1969 or 1970 Chevy 9 passenger station wagon with fake wood trim on it! An INTERESTING car in its own right. Well the new ride was one of the Dodge K cars. Both my Boss and I were not impressed with that thing, and I don't think the office had it for very long. It was a base model, and seemed very cheaply made. WYR#1 I like that little truck thing! Wish they still made something like that!! #2 Kind of like that weird Consulier GT sports car! Looks like it would be fun to drive!
Between an accident I had and a later one my future ex-wife would have, we had a rented 1984 Dodge Aries between us for about four months. Very competent little car. Not a typical U.S. econo-shitbox like my Pinto and my parents' Fairmont had been. Nice little car. Pity Chrysler had to "improve" it and ruin it.
I JUST retired my 1995 Dodge Dakota Sport with the 2.5L K-car motor. 360,000 miles and only ever required a head gasket and that was my fault (had ignition timing too far advanced)
I bought an ‘87 LeBaron coupe new, with the 2.2 turbo engine. That car ran perfectly (best running car I’d had to that point) from the day I bought it up until it blew a head gasket and cracked the head with about 125k miles, and that might have been because my daughter drove it at university and abused the hell out of it. Some bad-mouthed the K-cars (that LeBaron was technically a J-car, a K-car derivative), but l loved mine.
Well, in answer to your questions my picks would be the Scamp and the Daytona IROC. Currently I have two 1991 Daytonas... ones a turbo swapped base model and the other is a Daytona Shelby. Both are 2.5 turbo 5spd cars, though the Shelby has a lot more performance goodies on it (ecu, cam, injectors, big turbo etc).
My 1984 Plymouth Horizon (90 horsepower IIRC) was my first new car. I liked it. I moved up to a 1986 Dodge Omni GLH Turbo which was a blast. I wanted a GLHS but just couldn’t swing it. But that Consulier ( pronounced “Kahn-soo-leer”) was a total rocket, although few people have ever heard of them.
Thank you so much for that correction I suck at pronunciations.. I just watched an episode where Doug DeMuro got to Drive one they were pretty cool cars but super expensive (consulier) Dodge Omni looks very similar to Volkswagen GTI there’s a bunch of cars from that era that looks just like Volkswagen GTI
@@What.its.like.The “hot hatch” cars of the 80s were really fun. I am lucky enough to have a current “hot hatch” (GR Corolla) that brings back so many good memories of that wonderful GLH Turbo that I miss so much. And it’s ok to have trouble with pronunciation of “Consulier” It was a very interesting company based in Florida. I recall one or two of them kicking butt in some club racing events in either the late 80s or early 90s. Consuliers just not well remembered these days. I missed the Doug Demuro episode but he may be too young to have known how Consuliers were pronounced in the days they were manufactured, sold and raced.
This was very cool ! Thanks for giving props to Lido too,he kinda gets shit on by that Adam guy but maybe that’s cause he was pitching a tent for Lutz when he had him on. The WYR,man, that’s tough, anyone with a manual otherwise the ScampGT and the Daytona.
Going to cover a Chrysler K car one day but definitely wanted to give some background information because that’s a bit outside the box for what we cover on the channel.. I like lido he knew how to get stuff done.. I wish that I could’ve met him and Carroll Shelby
I would take the Plymouth Scamp GT and the Dodge Daytona IROC, for WYR. I am another one remembering seeing so many K cars all over New Jersey in the 1980s...my father drove one for a time.
Growing up my parents had an 89 Turbo Voyager. The performance was quite good for a minivan. The thermostat failed twice but the engine overheated before the temp gauge showed it overheating. Maybe the temp sensor was on the wrong side of the thermostat? The first time the head gasket blew, the head warped, but they had it fixed. The second time it was beyond repair and got scrapped
Plymouth Voyager if they had a standard transmission... My Sister had an 89 Dodge Spirit Turbo I called Dookey Dog 😢 pitiful car !!! 3 transmissions 4 turbo replacement in 6 years 😱😭 Mitsubishi motors were real good once you fixed them 👍 Emissions robbed the performance greatly 😢 Weber carb or Japanese carb.. Exhaust header , straight pipe no cat or muffler and better spark plugs !!!! Totally different animal 🤯👍 5 spd or not at all 🤔👍.. Great Episode 👏👏 Happy Motoring
Awesome story thank you so much for sharing I was talking to my brother and told him... have you ever noticed the either something is either really great or terrible.. no one gets hyped up about mediocre.. except Lee Iacocca, with the Chrysler K... but he sold it Cadillac not be out done by Chrysler had those Cadillac Allante‘s made in Italy and had them shipped here.. I guess they needed a way to wash all the blow money.. there isn’t any other explanation hahah 😂
@@What.its.like. Buick Reatta convertible was in comparison to them .. All hand built with touch screens in the late 80s 🤔 Pretty rare.. 2 seaters not bad looking but a V6 cruiser not a performer 😉 keep your eyes out for one of them ..20,000 total production I think 🤔 ?? Enjoy ✌️🤠
Parents had one, we had a few, mostly great little cars. Then we got an E-Class - worst car ever, but they tried to get fancy with a car that was never meant for it.... car talked too much... We also wore out 3, yes 3, Chrysler mini-vans... and the best of the bunch a Chrysler Pacifica (gen 1) that got taken out by an idiot driver making a wide left turn while sitting at a red light. That "bailout" was paid in full and made the US Government money, a lot of it. The Omni/Horizon started out as a Tolbert and originally had a VW-Audi based engine! 1st group, none of the above (but did own the minivan) 92 Daytona IROC Song, not a clue.
TALBOT Horizon as we called them this side of the Atlantic.Talbot was taken over by Chrysler early 80,s I think and with that the name disappeared.The Horizons predecessor was the Sunbeam.Lotus engineered a high performance version using their designed twincam head with the 2.2 block.
WYR: 1981 Plymouth Reliant K and the first 2 cars from the second scenario. The other don't do it for me. NTT: Rock The Night by Europe? Loved the picture of the General Lee 1969 Dodge Charger.
Hahaha yeah I saw that picture and was like I gotta use that some where even tho it does really fit in other than maybe the song. It was last in line by dio Dennislettich got it =) Great choices
The only one from this list would have to be the Iroc 2.2 would have liked a New Yorker 5th avenue turbo to choose also they were roomy comfortable, luxurious and got good mpg
The egos of the Ford family who wanted to keep control of the company. Lee was Italian-American, perhaps didn't want to share power, was a strong personality.
@@brahandThe Ford family, despite having a minority ownership interest, somehow retained considerable voting power when the stock went public in 1956. And they still do to this day.
My mom had an '89 Reliant back in the day (a cute little cracker box) on wheels, good mileage. I remember having to take the dash apart and readjusting the trim pieces inside that were blocking the speedo and the other gauges and a few other little things that were falling off. I also remember it had such a tiny carb on it compared to my TransAm's 4 barrel. 😀that just loved to suck the fuel. 😁 It was a step up from her previous Chrysler lebaron which had some of the shittiest handling a car could have and ALWAYS stalled at the most inopportune times (intersections, stop lights etc.) and this is the car I learned to drive in. One hand on the wheel and the other on the starter key just in case 😀 .You never knew when it would stall. One time it stalled in an intersection and it wouldn't start back up. Some firemen came along and pushed it off the road for her. Too funny.
The 2-5 had a problem with broken rings at around 100k i have a turismo duster the 2-6mitsi better except the carb i have 3carbs somewhere had 3 wagons rel aries t.c 2-2 bulletproof
I know they're not related, but I love my 2013 Dodge Dart with the 2.0L Tigershark engine and 6 speed manual. It's from the beginning of FIAT ownership and has the same suspension as the Alpha Romeo Giulietta, although the floorpan is slightly wider and longer. My hillbilly Alpha is as close as I'll ever get to an Italian sports car!
WYR the Scamp and the IROC. I never got to work on the higher-output engines but the n/a engines were mostly reliable slugs. When they initially went to fuel injection they had problems, but the carbs weren't trouble-free. With wear and mileage many carbs just wouldn't go till the engine was warmed up. These engines were cursed with final-drive ratios meant to deliver fuel mileage, not acceleration, and not doing terribly good at either one. In their time it was acceptable, and most people were happy with the engines; the rest of these cars was a whole different story. The choice of a non-interference valvetrain was superb, because Americans weren't used to cam belts and nearly nobody did the maintenance on them. People learned about aluminum heads warping cracking if overheated which they weren't used to either. Without these basically solid engines, Iacocca couldn't have saved Chrysler. Not covered here was the troublesome V6 sourced from Mitsubishi, which had been in use so Iacocca thought it was OK, but Mitsubishi already had a replacement for it when they sold Chrysler on buying it- ironically one slick salesman conning another slick salesman.
I totally agree it’s amazing how well they sold I honestly believe Iacocca had something to do with it though anything that guy touched turned to gold it seemed..
@@What.its.like. I had a band mate's Omni catch fire in front of the house. It was off, he was inside with us rehearsing when a neighbor knocked and asked calmly, "say...is that your car on fire?" LOL Bad wiring as well! 😅
